GDP 1.1% Growth!

[Filo]

Solid proof that labours economic policy was working and also proof that the Tories are guilty of scaremongering by saying the economy was worse than it actually was!

[jonrover]

Filo wrote:

Solid proof that labours economic policy was working and also proof that the Tories are guilty of scaremongering by saying the economy was worse than it actually was!

Aye, and watch it all come crashing down once the cuts and VAT rise comes.

[snods big brother]

Filo wrote:

Solid proof that labours economic policy was working and also proof that the Tories are guilty of scaremongering by saying the economy was worse than it actually was!

But was it not their policies that got us in to the trouble in the first place? Their policies may now be getting us out of the trouble they got us into but surely it would have been better not to get into trouble in the first place?

[BillyStubbsTears]

snods big brother wrote:

Filo wrote:

Solid proof that labours economic policy was working and also proof that the Tories are guilty of scaremongering by saying the economy was worse than it actually was!

But was it not their policies that got us in to the trouble in the first place? Their policies may now be getting us out of the trouble they got us into but surely it would have been better not to get into trouble in the first place?

Yeah of course. I mean, no other country in the world had a recession did they?

[snods big brother]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

snods big brother wrote:

Filo wrote:

Solid proof that labours economic policy was working and also proof that the Tories are guilty of scaremongering by saying the economy was worse than it actually was!

But was it not their policies that got us in to the trouble in the first place? Their policies may now be getting us out of the trouble they got us into but surely it would have been better not to get into trouble in the first place?

Yeah of course. I mean, no other country in the world had a recession did they?

Still them in charge when it happened - who we going to blame then the Tories and Liberals for picking up the pieces - The labour party led us into the recession spending all the money on the way - Thanks Gordon and goodbye.

[Jonathan]

snods big brother wrote:

Still them in charge when it happened

That's like blaiming Dave Penney and John Ryan for being in charge of DRFC when ITV Digital collapsed and put a squeeze on football finances!

The recession was a result of the global financial crisis, we've been here before, and much of the UK deficit was created by providing the necessary support and stimulus to avoid an entire collapse. The option of doing nothing would not have been preferable.

We all have our fundamental political differences and views on the role of the state, but you cannot blame Labour for causing the recession as it is simply inaccurate. The fact that they were in office at the time is irrelevant.

[snods big brother]

If it was irrelevant that they were in office when it happened they would not have been voted out of office in the last election.

[Filo]

snods big brother wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

snods big brother wrote:

Filo wrote:

Solid proof that labours economic policy was working and also proof that the Tories are guilty of scaremongering by saying the economy was worse than it actually was!

But was it not their policies that got us in to the trouble in the first place? Their policies may now be getting us out of the trouble they got us into but surely it would have been better not to get into trouble in the first place?

Yeah of course. I mean, no other country in the world had a recession did they?

Still them in charge when it happened - who we going to blame then the Tories and Liberals for picking up the pieces - The labour party led us into the recession spending all the money on the way - Thanks Gordon and goodbye.

The global banking crisis led us and the rest of the world into recesion, the labour party put measures in place to cushion that recesion, Osbourne and the Tories will now put spin on it and claim the recovery was because of them, you wait till the drastic cuts kick in and all confidence is lost. Will it be labours fualt then?

[Jonathan]

snods big brother wrote:

If it was irrelevant that they were in office when it happened they would not have been voted out of office in the last election.

I don't think the recession was the cause of Labour losing the election, if anything their action following the recession was one of the positives they needed to focus on in the campaign.

There are many reasons why Labour lost the election and it's important that the party comes to terms with them whilst choosing its' new leader.

[Glyn_Wigley]

snods big brother wrote:

If it was irrelevant that they were in office when it happened they would not have been voted out of office in the last election.

Just because lots of peoiple blamed them for it doesn't make it true.

[Jonathan]

If what SBB says is true, and that the reason Labour lost the election was because of the recession, then it just goes to show that a lot of people really didn't vote because of an informed decision.

It set a dangerous precedent when it seemed people would vote because Nick Clegg came across well on television, and that The Sun backs 'Cam.'

I do think personality played a significant (but not solitary) role in the defeat of Labour. You only have to read back through threads on here to see people saying they would have voted for anyone to 'get the dour Scotsman out.' It all smacks of voting on persona rather than genuinely considered principles.

[RTID75]

Aye, that and the aforementioned knee jerk, ill informed 'let's teach Labour a lesson for a global recession'  - the sort of reaction you'd expect from the kind of people that read the Sun.

So, we were starting to turn the corner, but wait and see as we're ConDemned to the second half of a much predicted 'double dip' due to the ridiculous and dangerous cuts game we are now very, very unfortunately immersed into.

It cracks me up to see people on local news (certainly here in the Midlands) crying their eyes out at the cuts they're having to live with now. I suspect most of the moaners played their part at the ballot box in bringing these policies to life. You reaps what you sows, idiots.

I only hope when inevitably things f*ck up big style that the coalition fails and an early general election is called. I really fear for the consequences for ordinary folk if we have to endure 5 full years of these financially elite wa*kers lording it over us.

[BobG]

I suspect you meant 'financially illterate' in your last line RTD. A whole lot more truthful that way as well as reading a lot better too.

Cheers

BobG

[MrFrost]

Would you have confidence in the Millibands or Ed Balls to put it right?

[Filo]

MrFrost wrote:

Would you have confidence in the Millibands or Ed Balls to put it right?

The proof is in the pudding, it was on it's way to being put right as the figures show

[BobG]

A lot more than I have in the Missing Link who is the current incumnbent. Have you seen his face? He's retrognathic!

BobG

[RobTheRover]

BobG wrote:

A lot more than I have in the Missing Link who is the current incumnbent. Have you seen his face? He's retrognathic!

BobG

And that's Numberwang!  A first for this forum.  Well done, Bob.

[BobG]

Bob

[hoolahoop]

Filo wrote:

snods big brother wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

snods big brother wrote:

Filo wrote:

Solid proof that labours economic policy was working and also proof that the Tories are guilty of scaremongering by saying the economy was worse than it actually was!

But was it not their policies that got us in to the trouble in the first place? Their policies may now be getting us out of the trouble they got us into but surely it would have been better not to get into trouble in the first place?

Yeah of course. I mean, no other country in the world had a recession did they?

Still them in charge when it happened - who we going to blame then the Tories and Liberals for picking up the pieces - The labour party led us into the recession spending all the money on the way - Thanks Gordon and goodbye.

The global banking crisis led us and the rest of the world into recesion, the labour party put measures in place to cushion that recesion, Osbourne and the Tories will now put spin on it and claim the recovery was because of them, you wait till the drastic cuts kick in and all confidence is lost. Will it be labours fualt then?

Filo I normally respect your opinions in matters but fella imo you've called this one incorrectly.
Who was in charge of banking regulation, who allowed the FSA to turn a 'blind eye to what was happening, who stepped in at the last minute when Northern Rock collapsed knowing there was going to be a 'run' on the banks, who signed off excessive capital expenditure projects way beyond our means, who sat in recession when most of the major economies were sorting it out ?
No it wasn't ''call me ''Dave and Clegg ''over''.
Sorry but this small increase could be a reflection of an increased confidence of this new type of politics, which despite it's flaws so far appears to be working even in the face of a Coalition party 'cobbled' together and somewhat diametrically opposed to one another.
We will of course see over the coming years.........again my opinion.
Why is it that Socialism and Socialists never recognise Realism!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

hoolahoop wrote:

Filo wrote:

snods big brother wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

snods big brother wrote:

Filo wrote:

Solid proof that labours economic policy was working and also proof that the Tories are guilty of scaremongering by saying the economy was worse than it actually was!

But was it not their policies that got us in to the trouble in the first place? Their policies may now be getting us out of the trouble they got us into but surely it would have been better not to get into trouble in the first place?

Yeah of course. I mean, no other country in the world had a recession did they?

Still them in charge when it happened - who we going to blame then the Tories and Liberals for picking up the pieces - The labour party led us into the recession spending all the money on the way - Thanks Gordon and goodbye.

The global banking crisis led us and the rest of the world into recesion, the labour party put measures in place to cushion that recesion, Osbourne and the Tories will now put spin on it and claim the recovery was because of them, you wait till the drastic cuts kick in and all confidence is lost. Will it be labours fualt then?

Filo I normally respect your opinions in matters but fella imo you've called this one incorrectly.
Who was in charge of banking regulation, who allowed the FSA to turn a 'blind eye to what was happening, who stepped in at the last minute when Northern Rock collapsed knowing there was going to be a 'run' on the banks, who signed off excessive capital expenditure projects way beyond our means, who sat in recession when most of the major economies were sorting it out ?
No it wasn't ''call me ''Dave and Clegg ''over''.
Sorry but this small increase could be a reflection of an increased confidence of this new type of politics, which despite it's flaws so far appears to be working even in the face of a Coalition party 'cobbled' together and somewhat diametrically opposed to one another.
We will of course see over the coming years.........again my opinion.
Why is it that Socialism and Socialists never recognise Realism!!

I truly do not know where to begin. But here goes.

1) The FSA were responsible for a worldwide banking crisis? Sheesh.
2) Are you seriously suggesting that Northern Rock should not have been saved? Do you have any comprehension what the consequence of that would have been?
3) What unaffordable spending commitments? As Mr Frost kindly pointed out last week, Labour were spending less than the Major Govt before the banking crisis struck.
4) Our recession started later than several other countries. Yes we came out if recession later than say Germany, but the depth of our recession was less severe than there, Japan or Singapore (three examples off the top of my head - there'll be more if you bother to do the research) and we appear to have emerged from recession more vibrantly than any other major economy.
5) Are you seriously suggesting that the country is so full if enthusiasm for this Government that we've all gone to work with a spring in our step and turned the country round in 6 weeks? I give up! The figures released yesterday covered to time from April to June. Apart from the fact that more than half if that period was BEFORE the coalition took power, it takes many months for economies to turn round. What these figures INDICATE (no more than that) is that Labour's classical Keynesian response to the recession was EXACTLY the correct thing to do back in 2008-09. Thank the fcuking Lord that Osbourne was not in power 2 years back, because there is no way on earth that he would gave sanctioned thus policy.
6) Socialists? Socialism? What the fcuk has that got to do with anything?

[CusworthRovers]

Does anybody fancy a pint?

[jonrover]

snods big brother wrote:

If it was irrelevant that they were in office when it happened they would not have been voted out of office in the last election.

Thats because the average Joe on the street put two and two together and get 5.

I have this problem all the time at work. As a union rep, I feel it is my duty to educate my members politically, just to redress the balance to the shite they read in The Sun and watch on the BCC. Labour cannot be held responsable for the recession. The only thing Labour got wrong was not ensuring the banks were made to adhere to a repayment plan for the taxpayers bailout. Brown did everything right up to that point. Which means the banks are free to continue in their unregulated madness, probably even more frivolously than they did before because they got away scott free, which will mean were all in for more of the same down the line as the capitailist bubble goes bang again.

[snods big brother]

jonrover wrote:

which will mean were all in for more of the same down the line as the capitailist bubble goes bang again.

Was it not President Tony Blair that said we will put an end to the tory Boom and Bust - What happened - oh I forgot it was everyone elses fault and not the ruling Labour party!

Someone quick pass me my rose tinted glasses!

[Filo]

snods big brother wrote:

jonrover wrote:

which will mean were all in for more of the same down the line as the capitailist bubble goes bang again.

Was it not President Tony Blair that said we will put an end to the tory Boom and Bust - What happened - oh I forgot it was everyone elses fault and not the ruling Labour party!

Someone quick pass me my rose tinted glasses!

I think you're already wearing them, but they have a blue tint to them

[MrFrost]

I'm sure many on here would have defended Labour if they had remained in power and raised VAT. Darling would have done this.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I wouldn't have defended it. Mainly because I know that if we raise our basic level of VAT to closer to the EC average, we can't lower it again. (The drop to 15% was only allowed as a time-limited emergency action). As soon as it's raised to 20%, it can't be lowered as it's still below the EC average.

Same applied when we abandoned zero-rating on anything - most of the things we're zero-rated on are not zero-rated in therest of the EC, so we'd have gone closer to harmonisation and lost the zero-rating forever. Like we did when cuddly Ken Clarke wanted to throw away the zero-rating on domestic fuel. Thankfully he decided to do it in two stages, and the Tories were booted out in the first year, allowing Labour to reduce the VAT from the interim 8% to 5% (the most they could do under EC law). If it HAD hit the standard rate of 17.5%, not even that would have been possible. I wonder why the Tories aren't resurrecting this idea as a tax-raising wheeze now?

A little question for you all - how many of you remember when VAT was raised from 15% to 17.5%? Even better, how many of you remember WHY it was raised from 15% to 17.5%? And therefore why it was all a huge, huge, confidence trick?

[Jonathan]

MrFrost wrote:

I'm sure many on here would have defended Labour if they had remained in power and raised VAT. Darling would have done this.

He did indeed admit that he personally favoured the VAT rise instead of the NI rise, alas the coalition have gone for both.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glyn_Wigley wrote:

 
A little question for you all - how many of you remember when VAT was raised from 15% to 17.5%? Even better, how many of you remember WHY it was raised from 15% to 17.5%? And therefore why it was all a huge, huge, confidence trick?

Oh I remember alright. From one regressive tax that disproportionately hit the poor and let off the richest in society to another one, in one effortless leap.

Leopards and spots eh?

[RTID75]

BobG wrote:

I suspect you meant 'financially illterate' in your last line RTD. A whole lot more truthful that way as well as reading a lot better too.

Cheers

BobG

Well, both 'elite' and 'illiterate' work in differetn ways. I was meaning that the Tories can always be relied upon to look after the rich and shaft those with the least. The 20% VAT rate is one perfect example - tax everyone the same regardless of their income.

I know I can't really afford for VAT to go up. The financial climate has conspired to hold my (already low) wages still for three years now, whilst everything else has got more and more expensive. To make things more expensive again right now is taking the piss, and dangerous too.

People are already holding onto their money. In my job (selling Vauxhall parts at a dealership) we're getting quieter and quieter by the day. I hesitate to say it in 'Tories fault' terms, but I we're definitely quieter right now than at any point in the last 2 or 3 years this last couple of months. It's so quiet now (in all departments) that I am fearful for the future of the company I work for. Adding 2.5% to everything isn't going to make people spend more, it's going to make them spend less, and then we're likely to see lots more of companies going to the wall. You have to wonder about the policies being made up right now - If the consequences of them going terribly wrong weren't so serious you'd laugh.

Very close family, and to a lesser degree the Rovers are the only things that tie me to this country for right now. If I were qualified enough to get out to Australia I think I would.

Happy days... :-(

[BillyStubbsTears]

RTID75 wrote:

People are already holding onto their money. In my job (selling Vauxhall parts at a dealership) we're getting quieter and quieter by the day. I hesitate to say it in 'Tories fault' terms, but I we're definitely quieter right now than at any point in the last 2 or 3 years this last couple of months. It's so quiet now (in all departments) that I am fearful for the future of the company I work for. Adding 2.5% to everything isn't going to make people spend more, it's going to make them spend less, and then we're likely to see lots more of companies going to the wall. You have to wonder about the policies being made up right now - If the consequences of them going terribly wrong weren't so serious you'd laugh.

Anatole Kaletsky, the Economics Editor of The Times (scarcely a raving Socialist) made pretty much this point in an article the other day. He said that Osbourne seems to have forgotten the first page of the economics textbook - that when coming out if recession, killing confidence and growth was by far and away a bigger danger than allowing higher deficits. He highlighted the mistakes that Japan made 20 years ago and said that we were in danger of doing exactly the same thing - concentrating on reducing the defecit by slashing public spending, leading to a collapse in economic confidence, sluggish private sector growth and consequently (and bizarrely) higher deficits. Japan, as a result, has gone from having the world's strongest public finances, to having the highest Government debt in the developed world. And we are now pretty much exactly copying what they did to bring about this catastrophe in the 1990s.

The first symptom of this destroyed confidence in Japan was people hoarding their money instead of spending it, leading to a collapse in private sector consumption. Which is the sort of thing you are seeing at work.

As you say, Happy Times.