GDP 1.1% Growth!

[MrFrost]

RTID75 wrote:

BobG wrote:

I suspect you meant 'financially illterate' in your last line RTD. A whole lot more truthful that way as well as reading a lot better too.

Cheers

BobG

Well, both 'elite' and 'illiterate' work in differetn ways. I was meaning that the Tories can always be relied upon to look after the rich and shaft those with the least. The 20% VAT rate is one perfect example - tax everyone the same regardless of their income.
I know I can't really afford for VAT to go up. The financial climate has conspired to hold my (already low) wages still for three years now, whilst everything else has got more and more expensive. To make things more expensive again right now is taking the piss, and dangerous too.

People are already holding onto their money. In my job (selling Vauxhall parts at a dealership) we're getting quieter and quieter by the day. I hesitate to say it in 'Tories fault' terms, but I we're definitely quieter right now than at any point in the last 2 or 3 years this last couple of months. It's so quiet now (in all departments) that I am fearful for the future of the company I work for. Adding 2.5% to everything isn't going to make people spend more, it's going to make them spend less, and then we're likely to see lots more of companies going to the wall. You have to wonder about the policies being made up right now - If the consequences of them going terribly wrong weren't so serious you'd laugh.

Very close family, and to a lesser degree the Rovers are the only things that tie me to this country for right now. If I were qualified enough to get out to Australia I think I would.

Happy days... :-(

Labour would have raised it also.

[Jonathan]

MrFrost wrote:

Labour would have raised it also.

You are confusing a personal opinion held by Alistair Darling with a policy. I watched the interview live this morning. The party needed to choose between the NI rise (shared between employees and employers) or a potential VAT rise. Darling personally favoured the VAT rise but the party proposed the NI rise instead. What we have from the coalition is both an NI and VAT hike. The Lib Dems did not oppose the NI rise pre-election, the Tories had nothing clear to say on either, but have ultimately gone for both.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Glyn_Wigley wrote:

 
A little question for you all - how many of you remember when VAT was raised from 15% to 17.5%? Even better, how many of you remember WHY it was raised from 15% to 17.5%? And therefore why it was all a huge, huge, confidence trick?

Oh I remember alright. From one regressive tax that disproportionately hit the poor and let off the richest in society to another one, in one effortless leap.

Leopards and spots eh?

Ah, but do you remember what the rise was meant to fund, and for how long..?

[BobG]

I'm sitting here thinking that we have all, ALL, the symptoms that were present in the mid 1930's. Economically illiterate Conservative Government, a despised, and abused, working class, a fearful middle and upper class who dramatically reduce their consumption, an industrial base totally unfitted to cope with the times (though for differing reasons), a dogmatist in No 10.

I hope this next 2 years make the Lib Dems unelectable ever again. I used to quite like them in a 'there there' kind of way. I hope the Tories commit collective hari kari. But I doubt they will. Unfortunately. This could easily be worse than Maggie's dogmatically engineered recession. This could go on for years and years and years no matter who ends up in power in 3 years time.

Suggestion for a small bet: we join a war somewhere in about 5 to 7 years time. Two good reasons for doing that.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glyn_Wigley wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Glyn_Wigley wrote:

 
A little question for you all - how many of you remember when VAT was raised from 15% to 17.5%? Even better, how many of you remember WHY it was raised from 15% to 17.5%? And therefore why it was all a huge, huge, confidence trick?

Oh I remember alright. From one regressive tax that disproportionately hit the poor and let off the richest in society to another one, in one effortless leap.

Leopards and spots eh?

Ah, but do you remember what the rise was meant to fund, and for how long..?

It was used to fund a TEMPORARY reduction in the Poll Tax wasn't it, when the Tories realised just how big a hole they had dug themselves with Maggie's favourite dogmatic scheme?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BobG wrote:

I'm sitting here thinking that we have all, ALL, the symptoms that were present in the mid 1930's. Economically illiterate Conservative Government, a despised, and abused, working class, a fearful middle and upper class who dramatically reduce their consumption, an industrial base totally unfitted to cope with the times (though for differing reasons), a dogmatist in No 10.

I hope this next 2 years make the Lib Dems unelectable ever again. I used to quite like them in a 'there there' kind of way. I hope the Tories commit collective hari kari. But I doubt they will. Unfortunately. This could easily be worse than Maggie's dogmatically engineered recession. This could go on for years and years and years no matter who ends up in power in 3 years time.

Suggestion for a small bet: we join a war somewhere in about 5 to 7 years time. Two good reasons for doing that.

BobG

I am ever the optimist Bob. Big difference this time is that the American's have a President and an Administration that understand why this crisis is different to any other one that we have faced since the 30s. While Osbourne (and Germany it has to be said) appear not to have the faintest idea of the real threat in the current situation, America realises that there is a different tack required. We in Europe, driven by German sound-money, anti-inflation obsession and UK Thatcherite anti-public sector mania, America is screaming that the key thing is to encourage growth. I never thought I'd see the day, but we have the bizarre situation where American economic policy is significantly to the Left of Europe's at the moment. Fingers crossed that they save the world economy from the decade of stagnation that Osbourne's approach would induce, and give our hoped-for private sector rebound something to grab onto.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Glyn_Wigley wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Glyn_Wigley wrote:

 
A little question for you all - how many of you remember when VAT was raised from 15% to 17.5%? Even better, how many of you remember WHY it was raised from 15% to 17.5%? And therefore why it was all a huge, huge, confidence trick?

Oh I remember alright. From one regressive tax that disproportionately hit the poor and let off the richest in society to another one, in one effortless leap.

Leopards and spots eh?

Ah, but do you remember what the rise was meant to fund, and for how long..?

It was used to fund a TEMPORARY reduction in the Poll Tax wasn't it, when the Tories realised just how big a hole they had dug themselves with Maggie's favourite dogmatic scheme?

Yep, £140 per person for two years.

After two years, guess what? No reduction in VAT! They obviously thought no-one would remember...