Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: elmsallrover on August 13, 2018, 04:23:19 pm
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Could someone tell me why this exit was closed on Saturday after the match I know I read something about it last season but bloody hell it was murder going down the exit next to the South stand especially for those bad on there feet and use in walking sticks
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It’s the emergency refuge for the disabled supporters should there be a problem. They would stay there until the emergency services get them out if I remember the reason correctly. It needs to be kept clear for the safety certificate.
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That's right robchester.
It's not the clubs choosing but has to be done for the reason you stated.
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Martin any chance of asking if we could have better lighting on the exit near the south stand as on a night match or a dark afternoon its poorly lit for us older folk to see the steps thank you.
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Martin any chance of asking if we could have better lighting on the exit near the south stand as on a night match or a dark afternoon its poorly lit for us older folk to see the steps thank you.
I can certainly do that for you.
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It’s the emergency refuge for the disabled supporters should there be a problem. They would stay there until the emergency services get them out if I remember the reason correctly. It needs to be kept clear for the safety certificate.
then why were the police and stewards walking up and them on Saturday
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It’s the emergency refuge for the disabled supporters should there be a problem. They would stay there until the emergency services get them out if I remember the reason correctly. It needs to be kept clear for the safety certificate.
then why were the police and stewards walking up and them on Saturday
Why is that relevant?
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My understanding is that the stairway is a fire barrier, meaning that in the event of a fire disabled people that have mobility issues can use that stairway to evacute safely, the fire barrier gives them more time to evacuate
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To cut to the Chase as they say .. we did this to death back in April
http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=265869.msg772713#msg772713 (http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=265869.msg772713#msg772713)
If people cant be bothered to read it all just look at Reply #40 which is comprehensive and to the point ....
.... and to save more time I have copied and pasted here
After a series of communications with the club I think we can put this one to bed;
The central stairwell on the West stand is not an entry/exit route.
The route in question is the designated safe refuge area in case of fire, and in our case, will be used by our disabled supporters. It's designed to withstand a longer period of smoke and fire and give time for supporters to be evacuated in a timely fashion by stewards or fire service.
All stadium capacities for ingress and egress are calculated on the two stair exits at either end of the concourse. If you mirror this to the East stand you could say there are three exits one at each end next to the turnstile entrance and the entry/exit route from the concourse into the East reception. This route is not a normal exit route and not part of the safe capacity calculations.
Although the club have been happy for it to be used but now its been highlighted during the inspection the club have to act. The Safety Officer will have no choice but to comply.
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Think they need to move the tv screen away from the South end exit in West stand - people watching scores create a hazard on egress
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Is the germane point that the West stand is by no means anywhere near full, yet following the closure of the middle exit, it is a massive shitstorm trying to get out of the available exits? God only knows what would happen if we had a full house trying to get down those stairwells.
Also for the disabled folk, in the event of a fire, I presume all lifts would immediately be out of use so how is the middle exit going to help them?
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That is a great point and one I have mentioned loads of times before.
The TVs are of course useful for those who want to watch them but are a barrier as you say when it comes to getting out at the end - and ironically they were why I started using the now closed Mid exit in the West not that that is without its problems
The Telly's (including the middle one) also make for bottlenecks at half time as people try to move about to TBars or Toilets or just for "walkies" especially for the people at the very ends of the Stand - as indeed do the Kiosk queues
However its tight and narrow and a solution would be difficult and it may be something we all just have to live with
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Our concourses are huge and well equipped compared to some..
The away end concourse at Sheffield Utd is far too small (in my opinion) for the capacity, and in the other end if the scale, at Crewe you get bugger all, inside that is.!
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Is the germane point not that the West stand is by no means anywhere near full, yet following the closure of the middle exit, it is a massive shitstorm trying to get out of the available exits? God only knows what would happen if we had a full house trying to get down those stairwells.
Also for the disabled folk, in the event of a fire, I presume all lifts would immediately be out of use so how is the middle exit going to help them?
I think that is the main point of the Middle exit. Those not totally "fit" to escape down the 2 end exits would be directed (or make their way) into that area. It is my understanding that they are not supposed to try to get down the Stairs themselves which could be difficult if not impossible for some - rather that they are afforded a place which is able to withstand poor / dangerous conditions allowing a longer time for the Emergency Services to arrive on scene and evacuate those "protected" by that zone
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Is the germane point not that the West stand is by no means anywhere near full, yet following the closure of the middle exit, it is a massive shitstorm trying to get out of the available exits? God only knows what would happen if we had a full house trying to get down those stairwells.
I agree that removing the middle exit is not ideal as it adds to the "pressure" on the 2 alternative routes out which themselves are not ideal due to the 90 degree turns
However whilst that exit is inconvenient at the end of the game in normal circumstances I am hoping that they never need to be used in a full evacuation. I think (hope) it is extremely unlikely that we see a Fire on the scale of Bradford City - due to the Stadiu designs and materials BUT if such a mass event happened in the West then it would likely as not be behind most people who I am sure would simply exit onto the Pitch
Its not something that can really be tested nor something I would like to witness just to see if "it worked" out but there will have had to be Fire Risk Assessments etc which have factored in such things
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Why can't we be allowed to walk down to the pitch and walk towards the south stand and exit through the corner like they do at Blackburn.
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Martin any chance of asking if we could have better lighting on the exit near the south stand as on a night match or a dark afternoon its poorly lit for us older folk to see the steps thank you.
Hi builder jon,
The club have said this was already on their radar and the facilities manager has been asked to look into it. They are currently assessing options.
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It’s the emergency refuge for the disabled supporters should there be a problem. They would stay there until the emergency services get them out if I remember the reason correctly. It needs to be kept clear for the safety certificate.
then why were the police and stewards walking up and them on Saturday
Because South Yorkshire Police are 'special'.
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Colfromdonny makes a very good point about the South stand, lots more of other clubs let you exit at pitch level
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It would certainly help speed wise - and would bypass "the Telly watchers" jam
It would become REALLY useful when TV Vans take up all the space outside the West and create a real bottleneck
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You won't get that past the Safety team.
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It’s the emergency refuge for the disabled supporters should there be a problem. They would stay there until the emergency services get them out if I remember the reason correctly. It needs to be kept clear for the safety certificate.
then why were the police and stewards walking up and them on Saturday
Because South Yorkshire Police are 'special'.
Because they know at the time they are using them that no "full Evacuation causing Incident" is underway .
The Club / Safety Team just need to ensure that we as Punters get used to NOT going out that way so they can reserve the space for the less mobile in case (unlikely as it is) that we need a full evacuation
Personally I would not be surprised if there was a massive fire (it will never happen) to see the me me me thing kick in as people just barged past everything in their way including the less able. I will never know because the likelihood is about as great as me beating Usain Bolt (even after been given a 50 Metre start)
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It would certainly help speed wise - and would bypass "the Telly watchers" jam
It would become REALLY useful when TV Vans take up all the space outside the West and create a real bottleneck
good point regarding the tv vans around the exits
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Anyone leaving the West Stand at the northern end are no longer allowed to exit into the car park clockwise by the stewards. The secret is to stick your head down and ignore them whilst they gather round the fans hurling abuse at them.
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Anyone leaving the West Stand at the northern end are no longer allowed to exit into the car park clockwise by the stewards. The secret is to stick your head down and ignore them whilst they gather round the fans hurling abuse at them.
Yes I wondered what that is all about, any ideas?
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Not a clue. I guess it's to keep the home and away fans apart. All it will achieve is even more fans exiting at the other end in effect going from 3 exits to 1.
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I can’t see it being much of an issue this season apart from half a dozen matches,Barnsley,Sunderland,Luton,Portsmouth etc. This Tuesday there won’t be masses of traveling support from Shrewsbury. Mind you when the Accrington Ultras turn up later in the season I expect all police leave will be cancelled in South Yorkshire.
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Anyone leaving the West Stand at the northern end are no longer allowed to exit into the car park clockwise by the stewards. The secret is to stick your head down and ignore them whilst they gather round the fans hurling abuse at them.
What a waste of stewarding resources! Absolutely no need at tonight's game with so few Shrewsbury fans there.
Not sure what they are trying to achieve as I can't ever recall there being any flashpoints at that point in the past.
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All they appear to have achieved is pissing off our own supporters. Certainly were some angry confrontations between stewards and supporters tonight.
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I just walked through them - no way I'm going to make a massive detour round the stadium to get home.
If they are that afraid of supporters clashing, how come there was no stewarding in sight when I walked through 5 minutes before kick off?
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Yes me too head down and ignored them. I'd love to know on what basis they've made the decision. I presume when they closed the middle exit another box needed ticking.
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From my understanding what i heard, the reason fot the stewards iin the carpark is this.
We seem to have a group of the youth element that appear to leave just before full time and basically ,try and cause a confrontation with the visiting fans.
Apparently the policing costs are ridiculous and they would like to earn a crust so the stewards are trying deal with the problem, i.e low outcome more budget for the club to invest elsewhere.
No brainer if thats the case.
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But to my recollection, they’ve never caused a problem there, usually it happens at the edge of the car park or on the road up towards town - and then only when there’s a likeminded away contingent - which there certainly wasn’t from Shrewsbury.
And if they know who these kids are, why not steward them instead of people who just want to get home by the most direct route?
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The last time I recollect seeing a problem was against Reading in our last championship season. It makes absolutely no sense. How are away fans supposed to get to their cars. It just seems to be that someone somewhere has come up with the idea of how can we antagonise fans the most. We don't pay the policing costs outside the stadium do we?
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Thought it was just an excuse for the stewards to hold hands
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Are you sure it's not just to stop traffic travelling the wrong way around the stadium?
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Are you sure it's not just to stop traffic travelling the wrong way around the stadium?
Why would they be along the footpath to the road if that were the case?
With some of the meatheads amongst the regular stewards
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Are you sure it's not just to stop traffic travelling the wrong way around the stadium?
No, whoever was in charge was shouting "You're letting them through! Hold the line! Hold the line!*" when I walked past.
* I might have made that bit up ;-)
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Are you sure it's not just to stop traffic travelling the wrong way around the stadium?
100 per cent sure. Physically restraining people not cars.
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Are you sure it's not just to stop traffic travelling the wrong way around the stadium?
100 per cent sure. Physically restraining people not cars.
OK, fair enough. I wasn't aware of anything other than enforcing the one way system.
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Maybe they should let the home Burberry clad youths come face to face with the Portsmouth fans on Saturday.
There will obviously be many more from Portsmouth than some of the smaller clubs we play so the probable outcome would be the Burberry boys running away.
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As regards the middle exit being closed for the disabled incase of emergency,am I the only one who see's this as a massive design error,obviously down to the architects!
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It's a bloody nonsense and a waste of an exit that it was designed for. Whilst the West (South) stairwell was predictably busy and a bottle neck, the central stairwell was virtually redundant.
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As regards the middle exit being closed for the disabled incase of emergency,am I the only one who see's this as a massive design error,obviously down to the architects!
It was never designed as a general exit, nor was it ever intended to be used as one, therefore it can't be a massive design error as you put it. DRFC did allow it to be used for that reason but once the safety people advised against it there's very little they can do.
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Maybe not, but I feel better for getting out of my system! 😀
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I can't see many using the North exit from now on either if you have to do a full lap of the stadium to leave if walking round the lake. Even more pressure on the South exit.
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Just knock out them windows and get bouncy slides, sorted.
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Perhaps the safety people would do well to observe the congestion at the SW exit (with a half capacity attendance at that) to see if they still think it is a good decision. If there was ever to be a life risk emergency situation affecting the west stand the likely outcome would be scores of deaths whilst a perfectly viable escape route is used for a few.
This is the sort of bonkers scenario you read about in the aftermath of real life disasters.
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Why do you have to do a full lap (apologies if you mean NE exit)
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As regards the middle exit being closed for the disabled incase of emergency,am I the only one who see's this as a massive design error,obviously down to the architects!
It was never designed as a general exit, nor was it ever intended to be used as one, therefore it can't be a massive design error as you put it. DRFC did allow it to be used for that reason but once the safety people advised against it there's very little they can do.
But in that case,is it not then,a design mistake to expect two stairwell exits to be sufficient for the whole of the west stand?
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As has been mentioned on here before why can’t the exit in the South West corner be used by people in the West Stand,it’s at ground level and a lot larger and safer than the bottle neck that has occurred at the first two home games of the season. Some one is going to get hurt in the crush , in the coming months when the weather turns those steps are going to be very slippery
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As regards the middle exit being closed for the disabled incase of emergency,am I the only one who see's this as a massive design error,obviously down to the architects!
It was never designed as a general exit, nor was it ever intended to be used as one, therefore it can't be a massive design error as you put it. DRFC did allow it to be used for that reason but once the safety people advised against it there's very little they can do.
But in that case,is it not then,a design mistake to expect two stairwell exits to be sufficient for the whole of the west stand?
How can it be? The flow of people on exiting the stadium will have had to meet certain design criteria, i.e. width of staircase, size of treads, visibility, handrails, and other features that have to meet safety standards and conditions. It would have been impossible to build the stadium in the first place if it hadn't have met the standards required.
And I could guarantee (almost) that the stadium will be completely empty within 7-10 minutes of the end of the game. Is that too long?
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And can you guarantee people not slipping over trying to get out of one exit,a couple of elderly and less able people on Tuesday night felt embarrassed by the time it was taking them to get down the stairs.
Some people come via public transport or with friends and don’t want to keep people waiting or miss their bus or train.
Which exit do you use to the leave the stadium ?
What are the figures for “bums on seats” in the 3 Home sections ?
I would hazard a guess that over 45% of the home support is in the West Stand
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And not a single bit of that is relevant.
Are you suggesting that the design criteria for exits to a stadium should be that people may be using public transport, or they've come with friends? Seriously?
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It is very relevant,and very insulting.
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It is very relevant,and very insulting.
Which exit I use isn't relevant at all. Bums on seats doesn't matter either, all stands, concourse areas, and exits have been designed around current design criteria as spelt out in the Green Guide. The exit that takes the most time to clear in the Keepmoat is the southern end of the East stand by the family area.
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I see you that only answer what you want to,not the points about less able supporters. Fair enough I seek answers from those who are in the know.
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Why do you have to do a full lap (apologies if you mean NE exit)
Because from the North West exit you are only allowed to walk anti clockwise around the stadium.
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See, while I see why that is a massive pain in the arse, it does kind of make sense to segregate the fans on the way out. It happens at the majority of grounds, it's just that we have no fencing or anything around the outside of the Keepmoat so we don't think it should happen.
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Why do you have to do a full lap (apologies if you mean NE exit)
Because from the North West exit you are only allowed to walk anti clockwise around the stadium.
We always walk anti-clockwise from the West Stand to get back to the lake - is it quicker the other way?
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Why do you have to do a full lap (apologies if you mean NE exit)
Because from the North West exit you are only allowed to walk anti clockwise around the stadium.
We always walk anti-clockwise from the West Stand to get back to the lake - is it quicker the other way?
From the south end it's probably about the same, north end it obviously adds the entire length of the ground onto the walk...
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It’s the emergency refuge for the disabled supporters should there be a problem. They would stay there until the emergency services get them out if I remember the reason correctly. It needs to be kept clear for the safety certificate.
The thing is with that,Im sure,if there ever was a problem,I.E. bomb/fire,fans would use that exit regardless.
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I see you that only answer what you want to,not the points about less able supporters. Fair enough I seek answers from those who are in the know.
Not at all. I have answered your questions in all aspects, so I'll repeat myself. The stadium was designed in accordance with the Green Guide, just like every other stadium in the country. The Green Guide is put together by the Sports Ground Safety Authority on behalf of the DCMS. Therefore it goes without saying that if it passes the SGSA test then it can't have been badly designed.
As for being in the know, feel free to ask somebody else.
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They've now decided to fence it off. The lady in charge thought we wouldn't mind waiting until the away fans left first and then they'd let us through. Many very angry supporters today. That's ok though we'll all use one very poorly lit exit in future then. They don't mind the supporters mixing when they're taking money off them.
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This sounds like an issue that is only growing, and is exactly the sort of thing that the "In Rovers We Trust" philosophy needs to be put in action for. I hope some discussions can be had because supporters clearly have concerns.
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I doubt they care they will just spout health and safety. At least it gives the stewards some entertainment they think it's hilarious.
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But you can just walk 20 yards towards then cut through the hedge with no stewards to stop you.
They really haven’t got a clue, have they?
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The middle exit will be back in use from Saturday according to an email I have just read from the club
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Great (if true)
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Be interesting to hear the explanation for that 'U'-Turn, if true, given the explanation given for the decision in the first place.
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Dear supporter,
We wrote to you back in July before the start of the season to let you know we had been required to shut the middle stairwell of the west concourse due to the findings of two audits carried out as part of our licence to hold events at the stadium. This was due to both fire safety and security requirements which we had no choice but to action. As a stadium management team, our intention is to make the match day experience as enjoyable as possible and it is clear that this decision has impacted a significant number of you and is something we have been challenging with the authorities since the decision was made. We have reviewed building plans and fire strategy documents from the initial stadium design, along with health and safety documentation to build a case to challenge the issues raised and form a number of mitigations which would remove the issues highlighted.
Last week, we set up a meeting with the licencing authority, in addition to an independent advisor who we have been liaising with, to challenge the initial decision and suggest a number of options that we believed would enable the exit to be opened again for general use. As a result, we have agreed the changes to the building and operation which will enable that exit to be used by spectators as a general exit again. The stadium has contractors in this week making the required changes to the building and we will be in a position to have the exit open again for the Bradford City fixture on Saturday September 22.
We appreciate your patience in what has been a very difficult situation. The safety of our supporters is our priority and we have to work to a number of additional requirements to enable us to operation as a football stadium. Please be assured that we have challenged this decision on your behalf and thankfully have been able to overturn the decision to close the stairwell.
We look forward to welcoming you to the game on Saturday and hope that the use of the middle stairwell will be of great benefit to supporters in the west stand
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Be interesting to hear the explanation for that 'U'-Turn, if true, given the explanation given for the decision in the first place.
It's not a U turn though. The club have taken the time to campaign on your behalf and need a pat on the back for doing so.
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Looks like a u turn to me.
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Is it really a u turn when it wasn't their decision to make and they've gone and gotten that decision overturned?
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No it’s not a U turn. It was not a decision made or wanted by the club. They had no choice but to carry out the closure of that exit. But credit to Marie Hepburn and others at the club who have worked hard to turn the original decision around by presented other factors. All of which means that the exit will be open again on Saturday as wanted by both our fans and our club.
Well done from me.
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Credit to the Club from me too.
Will be even more grateful when I exit there Saturday !
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Huge credit to the club for this. It is a perfect example of them listening to the concerns of fans and taking positive action accordingly.
I must say I was concerned at the last home match when exiting the West Stand with my young daughter. Due to the closure of the middle exit and the 'inconvenience' (for want of a better expression) of using the North Exit, the vast majority of supporters were exiting via the South stairwell, which really did cause congestion.
But Marie Hepburn and the club in general have acted swiftly to resolve the situation, and they deserve praise for doing so. Well done to all concerned.
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Looks like a u turn to me.
How you can call it a U-turn is simply beyond me..The club had to act to the instructions given initially by Law..They challenged it,spent money on our behalf to investigate and challenge it.Then agreed a compromise and spent more money implementing it..So we get it back open again..
Some fans really seem to have a us and them attitude at times..
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common sense prevails, was a stupid idea to close it.
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I agree, credit to the club for their successfully challenging what was a nonsensical decision.
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Looks like a U-turn.... ...by the licensing people, brought about by Rovers listening to their customers and responding in a way to resolve it positively.
Now I've got no chance of any of you agreeing with that!!!
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As with B****t maybe we should now draw a line under the whole thing :lol: :lol: :lol: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Well done DRFC, everyone's happy.