Coronavirus

[SydneyRover]

400% is the future risk for the unvaccinated, as you asked and then deleted your comment WR

So is this another computer model projection? And I'm talking about long term health risks from taking a vaccine to my health, which cannot be known yet, it takes 10 years sometimes longer to get this data, it's not even 5 years yet.
And again can you send me some data that doesn't involve a conflict of interest?

Who cares what you think Wheatley, you're not making any sense, you either follow the available science or not, you can apply your illogical reasoning to any amount of things but scientists have long understood how to present fact and risk and have subjected their finding to peer review, you have CDH in support is all.

[WheatleyRover]

I'll take that as you can't then

[drfchound]

And for those that don't want to read about scientific thingies here's the short form.

of 10 unvaccinated people, 5 died → the death rate among the unvaccinated is 50%

of 50 vaccinated people, 5 died → the death rate among the vaccinated is 10%

400% increased chance of dying without vaccination

In a very limited vulnerable and elderly section of the population. With a few outliers naturally, as there is with anything like cancer for example. Young people get cancer and die, but it is still rare.

400% increased chance of dying without vaccination? For a healthy 30 year old? Or an 80 year old with multiple co-morbidities? You don't make it clear SR. 

I don't know how to make it clear for you CDH as I don't really know what you comprehend 7x I asked you to clarify something you posted the other day and still waiting, it's not worth the effort of engaging is it?

Pot, kettle, black syndrome SR.
I have asked you questions numerous times but you dont do answers, do you.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

The risk is that, when the pandemic started, over 99.5% of people didn't die and this was before a vaccine was available.

We now have more immunity in the population, vaccines and a lot of those really vulnerable people will have sadly died in the first few waves. Oh, and Covid is now a milder disease and many of the unvaccinated will already have had Covid.

So the risk to the unvaccinated going forward is very low indeed and decreasing all the time.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Read that f**king Twitter thread I posted and you ignored.

The vast majority of older people have medical issues you fool. That doesn't mean they are about to die.

My mother has high blood pressure and has had a hearth attack. If some selfish Kitson infected her with COVID because they couldn't be arsed to take simple precautions, and she died, your take is that she was at death's door anyway so her death doesn't matter. You don't have a clue how ignorant, dangerous and plain disgusting your attitude is.

Get some perspective BST for petes sake. The general population doesn't have a responsibility to keep your mother alive, though obviously nobody willingly wants her to perish. If there were a million people dying per day, the general population still do not have a responsibility to keep your mother alive.

If a million people a day were dying then it would still be freedom of choice whether someone wanted to wear a mask or take a vaccine too. A point you have missed all the way through. This might be harsh or uncaring but it is the truth. I don't have to wear a mask or get vaccinated to protect anyone - and here's the key point - IF I DO NOT WANT TO. Because it is my body, my choice. Whether that makes me selfish, irresponsible, dangerous, ignorant and plain disgusting is irrelevant. What is relevant that it is my choice to make because we don't live in North f**king Korea me old.

We don't want or need to be told what we should do with our bodies by Governments as it none of their f**king business.

Unbelievable! A post that makes my blood boil and stomach churn at the same time. Sickening! I of course realised there were selfish prats out there uncaringly putting people more vulnerable than themselves at risk by not being vaccinated, not wearing masks, breaking lockdown and social-distancing rules etc etc but I thought they were just unthinking, uncaring neanderthals. To see a well structured, seemingly lucid argument why this sort of behaviour is acceptable is shocking. You're beyond selfish sir: your attitude, opinions and actions are vile bordering on evil.

Give over you drama queen. I respect others rights to do what the hell they like with their bodies. Because i'm not the selfish one!

And yet when I suggested a hypothetical example of your logic would be to accept it is my right to use part of my body to do you physical harm if I wish, you said you felt threatened and talked about involving the police.

Do you truly not see the point here?

[Nudga]

Was talking to a tradey mate earlier, he had his first jab and ended up with a blood clot on his lungs. He collapsed at his mates wedding reception.

I will defo not be putting that poisonous shite in my body.

[SydneyRover]

You are much better off talking to a doctor or scientist nudga.

''Exposures  Participant-reported COVID-19 vaccination.

Main Outcomes and Measures  Participant-reported adverse effects and adverse effect severity. Candidate factors in multivariable logistic regression models included age, sex, race, ethnicity, subjective social status, prior COVID-19 infection, medical conditions, substance use, vaccine dose, and vaccine brand.

Results  The 19 586 participants had a median (IQR) age of 54 (38-66) years, and 13 420 (68.8%) were women. Allergic reaction or anaphylaxis was reported in 26 of 8680 participants (0.3%) after 1 dose of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer/BioNTech) or mRNA-1273 (Moderna) vaccine, 27 of 11 141 (0.2%) after 2 doses of the BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 vaccine or 1 dose of the JNJ-78436735 (Johnson & Johnson) vaccine. The strongest factors associated with adverse effects were vaccine dose (2 doses of BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 or 1 dose of JNJ-78436735 vs 1 dose of BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273; odds ratio [OR], 3.10; 95% CI, 2.89-3.34; P < .001), vaccine brand (mRNA-1273 vs BNT162b2, OR, 2.00; 95% CI, 1.86-2.15; P < .001; JNJ-78436735 vs BNT162b2: OR, 0.64; 95% CI, 0.52-0.79; P < .001), age (per 10 years: OR, 0.74; 95% CI, 0.72-0.76; P < .001), female sex (OR, 1.65; 95% CI, 1.53-1.78; P < .001), and having had COVID-19 before vaccination (OR, 2.17; 95% CI, 1.77-2.66; P < .001).

Conclusions and Relevance  In this real-world cohort, serious COVID-19 vaccine adverse effects were rare and comparisons across brands could be made, revealing that full vaccination dose, vaccine brand, younger age, female sex, and having had COVID-19 before vaccination were associated with greater odds of adverse effects. Large digital cohort studies may provide a mechanism for independent postmarket surveillance of drugs and devices''

As against 400% increased risk of death without a vaccine

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2787361

[Nudga]

No thanks Sydney, I'll just go with my gut instinct, it's served me well so far.

[SydneyRover]

No thanks Sydney, I'll just go with my gut instinct, it's served me well so far.

take care nudga

[Nudga]

Thank you, same to you.

[bpoolrover]

Was talking to a tradey mate earlier, he had his first jab and ended up with a blood clot on his lungs. He collapsed at his mates wedding reception.

I will defo not be putting that poisonous shite in my body.

my mate who didn't have any jabs died of blood clots it happens it does not mean it's the vaccine that has done it

[Bentley Bullet]

Blood clot risk is much higher from the virus than from the vaccine. Just because the vaccine doesn't eliminate blood clots it doesn't make it unsafe, it was never claimed to eliminate them.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Three more medical incidents in the EFL yesterday, including one tragedy of a Fulham fan dying of a heart attack. Just saying. Unprecedented this season the number of medical incidents in grounds.

[Bentley Bullet]

Are the numbers unprecedented or are they publicised more?

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Are the numbers unprecedented or are they publicised more?

Unprecedented. You still got to hear about these incidents years ago but they just didn't happen very often imo but can see your point.

[Bentley Bullet]

My point is there has been a couple of incidents in the last few years, before Covid, where a Rovers fan has died at a match. I wonder if those incidents were reported nationally and not just locally?

[Filo]

They didn’t used to stop games in the past for medical incidents in the crowd, I think some people are looking for things to justify their stance, based on nothing but their assumption. Do you know the medical or vaccination history of the fan concerned ? Or are you using his death to make an uninformed point?

RIP to the Fulham fan

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

They didn’t used to stop games in the past for medical incidents in the crowd, I think some people are looking for things to justify their stance, based on nothing but their assumption. Do you know the medical or vaccination history of the fan concerned ? Or are you using his death to make an uninformed point?

RIP to the Fulham fan

No and no.

[Filo]

They didn’t used to stop games in the past for medical incidents in the crowd, I think some people are looking for things to justify their stance, based on nothing but their assumption. Do you know the medical or vaccination history of the fan concerned ? Or are you using his death to make an uninformed point?

RIP to the Fulham fan

No and no.

In that case you should refrain from implying that until the full facts are established

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

They didn’t used to stop games in the past for medical incidents in the crowd, I think some people are looking for things to justify their stance, based on nothing but their assumption. Do you know the medical or vaccination history of the fan concerned ? Or are you using his death to make an uninformed point?

RIP to the Fulham fan

No and no.

In that case you should refrain from implying that until the full facts are established

I can imply whatever i wish, whenever i wish, but thanks for the advice.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You can if you want to be an attention seeking, irresponsible adolescent.

You can imply what you wish. The rest of us also have the right to tell you to grow up and take some f**king responsibility.

There's a tsunami of utter shite coming from people on your side of the argument. Like Nudga constantly banging on about myocarditis. When the best research we have to date says you are SEVEN TIMES more likely to get myocarditis having had COVID than you are from any vaccine.

Of course more people are getting heart trouble and blood clots. Because there's a f**king epidemic raging out there that gives some people heart trouble and blood clots.

Just f**king well grow up and take some responsibility, or belt up.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

You can if you want to be an attention seeking, irresponsible adolescent.

You can imply what you wish. The rest of us also have the right to tell you to grow up and take some f**king responsibility.

There's a tsunami of utter shite coming from people on your side of the argument. Like Nudga constantly banging on about myocarditis. When the best research we have to date says you are SEVEN TIMES more likely to get myocarditis having had COVID than you are from any vaccine.

Of course more people are getting heart trouble and blood clots. Because there's a f**king epidemic raging out there that gives some people heart trouble and blood clots.

Just f**king well grow up and take some responsibility, or belt up.

Just words Billy. Meaningless.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No, words aren't meaningless in this.

Words have driven gullible people into making catastrophically bad decisions for them, and more importantly for others. And in the information age, if people spout the sort of utter b*llocks that you and others have been spouting, and it goes unchecked, it becomes the truth.

Nothing matters more than this over this next few decades. There are very, very powerful sources out there investing a lot of money in trying to f**k with people's heads with the explicit aim of destabilising our society.  Every time useful idiots help them by gullibly repeating their ideas, they need slapping down.

[Nudga]

Stand down, The Authoritarian Voice has bellowed his command..

[WheatleyRover]

I don't think BST knows anything about health. He believes you need a vaccine to be considered healthy, or to not spread the virus, even though you still spread it if you have been vaccinated.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

No, words aren't meaningless in this.

Words have driven gullible people into making catastrophically bad decisions for them, and more importantly for others. And in the information age, if people spout the sort of utter b*llocks that you and others have been spouting, and it goes unchecked, it becomes the truth.

Nothing matters more than this over this next few decades. There are very, very powerful sources out there investing a lot of money in trying to f**k with people's heads with the explicit aim of destabilising our society.  Every time useful idiots help them by gullibly repeating their ideas, they need slapping down.

What you fail to grasp is that once society has accepted that it is perfectly OK for the government to order that people have medicines forcibly pumped into their bodies under the guise of controlling a dangerous virus (which obviously Covid isn't for most people), then they have carte blanche to mandate other things further down the line on the basis that it for the greater good.

This is not someone who has their head f**ked with. This is what potentially a total loss of our freedoms and ability to make our own decisions looks like.

A nanny state on an industrial scale. Taking away the freedom of choice for people on the basis that there is something the government thinks is dangerous and thus needs to 'keep people safe' and thus they order that people must have X vaccine or Y medication against their will to 'protect others'. When in this instance, neither vaccine nor antivirals even do this.

Any crisis scenario can be manufactured in future and then the gullible get told what they must do, without being supplied with much evidence as to why they must do it and the gullible majority fall in line and do whatever they are told to. Because they have a misguided sense of duty to others. An emotional tool that the behavioural scientists have used to manipulate the behaviour of people throughout this pandemic.

If the government mandated vaccines for all and those pulling the strings of the government became aware of just how easy this was to achieve (like lockdown compliance) then they wouldn't want to continue doing things to take away peoples individuality and ability to free think?

It is people like me, people like kirk, wheatley, nudga, ldr and a few others, plus millions upon millions of silent voices in the UK who are standing up for the futures of our kids and grandkids. Because if people like you had their way, there would be lots more old people able to live a year or two longer in the short term, but in the long term, the free lives of our kids and grandkids would be no longer theirs.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No-one is forcing you to be vaccinated.

Just that, if you insist that your own personal freedom to choose means you refuse to take simple steps to protect society as a whole, there should be consequences on your ability to engage in the benefits of that society.

[WheatleyRover]

It's not our responsibility to protect your health, that's your job.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Follow the logic.

By that logic, it's not my responsibility to drive safely. It's your responsibility to stop your kids walking in front of my car if I drive at 70 up your road, because I can't be f**ked to drive at a more reasonable speed.

That is EXACTLY the logic of your argument. Do you now see how selfish, reckless and f**king stupid it is?

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

No-one is forcing you to be vaccinated.

Just that, if you insist that your own personal freedom to choose means you refuse to take simple steps to protect society as a whole, there should be consequences on your ability to engage in the benefits of that society.

I am happy to take simple steps, if they make sense to me and the evidence is there to support their effectiveness. Masks is a no no due to both reasons and vaccines no, because they only give protection to the person jabbed, not the rest of society.

NHS staff ARE being forced to have a vaccine however and in many European countries where sheep leaders follow sheep leaders they are.