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BFYPHow are they supposed to move? What's the mechanism to bring that about?They have said from the get go that we do not get a trade deal with them that involves problems for Ireland. The ONLY way to ensure there are no problems for Ireland is to make sure there is no border with NI. The ONLY way to do that is to make sure NI stays in the CU. That's why the backstop comes in. And because we have demonstrated that we cannot be trusted (Tory ministers threatening to withhold money that we legally owe if we don't get our way, suggestions floated that we could make it difficult for Ireland to import food from British ports if we don't get our way. Dominic Raab hinting that we'd turn off gas pipelines to Ireland if we don't get our way) the EU insists that we cannot unilaterally revoke the backstop. WE have brought this shitstorm on our own heads. I don't get what the EU is supposed to do. Ignore all that and betray one of their members? To help the British PM?
BFYPWe are NOT going out with No Deal. Repeat to fade.There are enough grown ups around to protect the country from that fantasy.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 14, 2018, 01:29:21 pmBFYPWe are NOT going out with No Deal. Repeat to fade.There are enough grown ups around to protect the country from that fantasy.If that's the case somebody is going to have to revoke Article 50. May's deal won't fly, there isn't time to negotiate anything else (even assuming the EU were prepared to) and the default is we leave on 29th March. Could Parliament vote to revoke A50 and instruct the Government to do so? Not really how our system works, is it?May has brought her humiliation (the vote of confidence by her MPs and now the snub from Juncker) on herself by pulling the vote on Tuesday. At least we would have had some numbers, and she could have said to the EU "this is how far we are away from agreeing my deal."
Quote from: The Red Baron on December 14, 2018, 03:39:50 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 14, 2018, 01:29:21 pmBFYPWe are NOT going out with No Deal. Repeat to fade.There are enough grown ups around to protect the country from that fantasy.If that's the case somebody is going to have to revoke Article 50. May's deal won't fly, there isn't time to negotiate anything else (even assuming the EU were prepared to) and the default is we leave on 29th March. Could Parliament vote to revoke A50 and instruct the Government to do so? Not really how our system works, is it?May has brought her humiliation (the vote of confidence by her MPs and now the snub from Juncker) on herself by pulling the vote on Tuesday. At least we would have had some numbers, and she could have said to the EU "this is how far we are away from agreeing my deal."That's where the Dominic Grieve amendment comes inHe put an amendment to the Brexit bill that in the case of May's bill being defeated then the the commons will assert "their sovereignty" take control of the next phase and as there IS a majority in the house to remain hopefully they will revoke article 50
That literally is democracy though...?
Quote from: MachoMadness on December 17, 2018, 09:19:12 amThat literally is democracy though...?Like keep voting until we get the 'right' result? This is 1984.
Quote from: Axholme Lion on December 17, 2018, 12:17:38 pmQuote from: MachoMadness on December 17, 2018, 09:19:12 amThat literally is democracy though...?Like keep voting until we get the 'right' result? This is 1984.We got the right result at the 2017 General Election, didn't we? You know, the vote we had after the referendum?
Quote from: Axholme Lion on December 17, 2018, 12:17:38 pmQuote from: MachoMadness on December 17, 2018, 09:19:12 amThat literally is democracy though...?Like keep voting until we get the 'right' result? This is 1984.I hate to keep saying it - and said I wouldnt again - BUT in 1975 we voted in effect to join (Remain in) the Common Market after having a trial 2 years of Mmebership10 times more people voted to Remain in 1975 (Majority was 33% - 66-33) than voted Leave in 2016 where 3 or 4% Majority said Leave 52-48 ishThat 75 Vote was never respected by those Tories and others who wanted us out - so apply the same to them ! Keep nagging and nagging till you get a Vote you like the result ofCameron was STUPID to call a Referendum anyway - and worse for not saying for it to change it had to be voted for at least 60% of those voting
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on December 17, 2018, 02:12:03 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on December 17, 2018, 12:17:38 pmQuote from: MachoMadness on December 17, 2018, 09:19:12 amThat literally is democracy though...?Like keep voting until we get the 'right' result? This is 1984.We got the right result at the 2017 General Election, didn't we? You know, the vote we had after the referendum?But a general election is every five years at least. How many referendums will we be having?
Quote from: Axholme Lion on December 17, 2018, 02:46:28 pmQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on December 17, 2018, 02:12:03 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on December 17, 2018, 12:17:38 pmQuote from: MachoMadness on December 17, 2018, 09:19:12 amThat literally is democracy though...?Like keep voting until we get the 'right' result? This is 1984.We got the right result at the 2017 General Election, didn't we? You know, the vote we had after the referendum?But a general election is every five years at least. How many referendums will we be having?Doesn't matter. Each electiop supercedes the previous one, regardless of the length of time between them. That makes the 2017 election more relevant than any before it.