A bit dissapointed with that list

[wing commander]

And i dont mean in a nasty way to the players going....However even taking into account our terrible injuries,some players were just not good enough for this level.This year the budget is tighter we need to make every player count to the first team in a variety of positions.Sod also indicated that some had been here to long and i expected a good clearout...
   Instead the list appears and its basically a few squad players who hardly feature and Brooker...Well that will free a lot of money up wont it??I can only hope that there is more to come out else we are in big trouble next year imo..

  Personally i would also have released or listed the following...

Burge-Not anywhere near ready for this level and a 1 year deal will just have him back out on loan

Chambers-good player but relies on pace.2 big knee injuries on a tough pitch too risky for me..

Sullivan-Way past his best and means we are sticking with Woods as first choice.....

Martis-list him,cant play more than 2 games and is a liability

Keegan-Not good enough doesnt offer much more than Willo imo so waste of a wage

Lockwood-great servant but again,starting to pile up the injuries and needs to be at his best to be a championship player-list him..


   Now that may seem harsh but that lot out would give SOD room to manouver in the market place..

[keyser_soze]

I think he's played it very safe, getting rid of that lot would leave a threadbare squad, don't forget you can add Moussa, Kilgallon, Mills and Mason (for now) to the list of first team players that won't be here next season, so with the 4 released is 8 names off our squad list without adding another 6. I'm pretty sure the budget restraints means the signing on of Hird and Keegan will be a case of 'better the devil you know' rather than signing an unknown. Its interesting that Keegan is only here until the new season, perhaps dependant on the success of new signings. Thats hardly a vote of confidence is it?

Martis & Lockwood are under contract, so why list them before you know who or what you can bring in?

I see Burge virtually as a first year pro, these players need time to develop and its not fair to give him less than a season to trouble the first team. Would you have shipped out Dumbuya on the strength of his first year at DRFC? Another season playing at Oxford or similar to see how he gets on.

[dijit8]

I would guess maybe a couple of players may be transfer listed later as releasing 4 players doesn't give us much scope to strengthen.

Burge i can't comment on as i haven't seen anything of him.

Chambers is out for a while so re-signing him is risky and as said will he be anything like the player he was before his injuries.

Sulivan - Ok if he is back up to a new keeper and Woods is sent somewhere to develop further.

Martis - Most people were pleased when he signed, if he stays fit he can be a good defender for us, can't see anyone buying him if we listed him.

Lockwood - He may move on in January once he is fit again as i think he will be released after his remaining year's deal.

Keegan - Looked ok but is he better than what's already at the club?

I would also list Sheils as he didn't really take his chances last year to show he deserved to start games regulary, also Fairhurst is not good enough for this level so i would try to move him on.

[keyser_soze]

fair assessment there, apart from Fairhurst. On what basis is he not good enough for this level? Sure he may not be, but I don't think its proven.

last I looked he'd scored 2 goals from 2 starts. He's also scored pretty consistently (with limited appearances) while on loan at other clubs.

[wing commander]

I accept some of those points mate but if you see Burge as potential you tie tie him up on a 2 year deal,So what happens if he does burst through while out on loan,just when we see a great player he is out of contract...
   As for Martis/Lockwood-You list them to let them now there not part of your plans and to get there agent hawking them about.Lockwood would get signed up quickly at league 2 level.Martis and his big wages would be a problem but ive no problem with upsetting a player who seems to want to come off the twitch of his hamstring,it might even sharpen him up a bit...

[wing commander]

Well SOD doesnt want him does he??,last season he would rather play with no striker at all than bring Fairhurst back,however i would also like to see him in pre season as well and if it doesnt work out list him in January..

[dijit8]

Two tap ins, one after Ipswich keeper dropped the ball and a yard out against West Brom but i suppose he was there to put them in.

He has done ok in League 2 when on loan but i haven't seen anything in his game when he has had the chances here to show he will be good enough at this level but thats just my opinion.

Not sure if Rovers think he has a future here as they could have recalled him from loan after his first month at Hereford but chose not to, if they don't think he has a future at Rovers better to move on for his own career.

I

[wing commander]

Well you could debate that one, but i still stand by the point we just havent been tough enough with that list...However it wouldnt suprise me if we didnt discretely circulate one or two names that we would consider parting with and i wouldnt rule anybody out there..

[Bristol Red Rover]

In order of disagreement, ie ones I'd keep:

Burge- Seems to have impressed at Oxford, I've a good feeling about him, worth the punt of keeping him. Along with Fairhurst, we need youngsters to develop. Reckon he's fairly cheap at the mo.

Keegan- I think he could come on well next season, worth the risk. Wages prob not too high.

Chambers- risky I agree, but versatile in that he can fill the left back position, and injury free in good form is a good enough player.

Lockwood- Good if he's injury free, and with the injury issue inquiry, surely that won't be a problem...

Martis- not consistant but can play very well.

Sullivan- not replacing him could be a case of freeing up money for other positions and money for loans. He's kept on for insurance - I still think we are in for getting a keeper for the right fee/wages.

[keyser_soze]

I just think from a purely selfish point of view, for the sake of 2/3 months wages nobody under contract should be transfer listed until we at least know what we've got coming in and that they're better. Can't end up short of players like last season and panic buy another Souza or Thomas.

[herouk87]

I know its a bit late now but I'm starting to wonder why we let Josh Payne go to Oxford (he was keen to but if we could offer some first team appearances i think he would have stayed)

He was better the Burge or Keegan with lots of room to develop

[NorthNorfolkRover]

:wish people would stop slagging martis. He's the only power player in our squad no brokers gone.

[VikingJames]

I think Martis gets a raw deal on here. He's alright when he plays, only trouble is keeping him fit. I'm sure if he could put a run of games together he'd be an asset for us, but he's in and out far too much with injuries that we haven't really seen the best of him.

[DonnyNoel]

I just think from a purely selfish point of view, for the sake of 2/3 months wages nobody under contract should be transfer listed until we at least know what we've got coming in and that they're better. Can't end up short of players like last season and panic buy another Souza or Thomas.

Couldn't agree more. Haven't posted much on these threads as you've been putting it so succinctly!

Improving our team (and squad) is tough at this level, why make it harder by releasing players who have done well for us (albeit some in fits and starts)?

Who did we sign last summer that genuinely improved us?

Billy Sharp - £1m+
Simon Gillett - piece of genius by SOD but how many more are there like that?

Possibly Friend? Player of the calendar year but not an improvement on Roberts whom he was signed to replace.

Thats how hard our task is and given who's coming up from L1 its looking like it will be even harder.

It's extrememly uninspiring but maybe its a case of better the [strike]devil[/strike] squad player you know.

Unless the wage structure is being completely revamped in which case bring on Murphy, Kilkenny, Henderson and Mills/Shackell equivalent!  

[DonnyBazR0ver]

You can't be too hasty just in case your transfer targets don't come off and then you find you've got no squad to work with and then you end up with the likes of Thomas and Souza again.

Its a long summer, let's wait and see before transfer listing players.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think Martis gets a raw deal on here. He's alright when he plays, only trouble is keeping him fit. I'm sure if he could put a run of games together he'd be an asset for us, but he's in and out far too much with injuries that we haven't really seen the best of him.

Spot on - God I'm agreeing with you too much at the minute :D

Martis gets a raw deal.  He is inconsistent but let's remember if he played at his best every week he wouldn't play for Rovers he'd be in the Premier League.

As for SOD's decisions.  Well I'm happy with most of them.  I don't think Hird will sign, get the feeling he wanted away during this season and I reckon it'd be for the best (But having offered him something does that make us entitled to a fee at his age?)

Keegan's seems sensible I suspect that's more to do with him getting fit. Chambers is still a good player and asset to the squad, I'm sure he's on a reduced wage and bigger appearance fee if he agrees.  Sullivan still has ability and experience, got to admit I'd prefer someone a bit better, but his experience really can help at times.  I'd like to see a new 1st choice in, Woods loaned out to get experience and prepared for becoming our number one, but then I also think he has the ability to do it.  A gamble maybe, but then other teams gamble with younger players.

Glad to see Thomas go, couldn't fault his effort but simply we need better.

I'm sure one or two others could go in full transfers (Shiels/Fairhurst?) but they won't announce stuff like that we're too professional.  On the whole I don't think I can argue much with the decisions made.

[Standanista]

Who did we sign last summer that genuinely improved us?

...

Possibly Friend? Player of the calendar year but not an improvement on Roberts whom he was signed to replace.

Many of us would have Roberts back in a flash, of course.  Obviously the problem is that we've lost some good players over the last couple of seasons and not replaced them, but there is a silver lining to all this.  Imagine what the stay/go lists would be looking like if we had finished a place lower.

[Viking Don]

Well I normally agree with you Noel, but I have to say that Friend is a massive improvement on Roberts, in terms of age and versatility at the very least. He adds height to a small team and while he might not yet have quite as an effective left foot he's played at a higher level and is still improving.

Don't think Roberts has had too many games this season in a struggling side so IMO Friend for Roberts was a very good deal.

Also puzzled why folk say Keegan doesn't offer much more than Wilson so want to offload him, but still want to bloody well keep Wilson, who they've just said doesn't offer as much! Explain that one to me someone please. From the little I saw of him I'd have him over Wilson every time.

Also Burge - well he looks good on uTube but he's hardly played ten minutes for us so it's far to early to say he's not good enough. Jesus Christ give the lad a bit of time to break into the team first, he's only a youngster. I hope you judges get a bit more time to prove yourselves than you give others.

As for Martis, some games he's looked like a proper CH and I think we've got a diamond on the cheap, but other times he doesn't look too bothered and is injured for more than is reasonable, so although I think he's good enough I don't think he's reliable enough to be considered a first choice CH, so we definitely need another one, not another 3 or 4, but at least one quality CH. Otherwise we'll struggle again at the back no matter who's in goal. I just don't understand the Kilgallon thing, he looked like the kind of CH we need but doesn't get a game. Hopefully that means we've set our sights on someone even better.

[Jonathan]

I would agree that Friend is not an improvement on Gareth Roberts (left back) but he is an improvement on every other central defender at the club and I think that is the point that Noel was trying to get across. When you look at the left back situation we are now in exactly the same position as last summer - we need to replace Roberts. We also need a partner for Friend and some back up in central defence.

Anyway, on the topic of the thread, I do actually agree that we could have been a bit more ruthless with 'the list.' It was a relief to see Thomas go and Souza was an obvious one, but some of the other decisions I find slightly strange.

It's hard/harsh to comment too much on Keegan and Burge. Keegan looked like he could do a useful job at times before the injury, and Burge we've seen nothing of, but O'Driscoll clearly stated in the paper that with Stock being out until Christmas we will need to bring in another midfielder. I agree with that entirely, but my question is can we afford to bring in a midfielder of first team quality (e.g. a Kilkenny type) and sustain the wages of two players (three if you add Wilson) who may play little or no part?  We have to cut our cloth accordingly and although we need a squad, we don't need players that will never play.

Chambers is a risk. If his fitness was not in doubt there would be no argument as he's a quality player and at home at either full back position, but we need some assurance on his likely availability before dishing out another substantial weekly wage.

Given the relative lack of players released, I could see the sense in circulating the names of a few under contract players if (and that is the key word) we could source the necessary standard of replacement.

[wing commander]

Well I normally agree with you Noel, but I have to say that Friend is a massive improvement on Roberts, in terms of age and versatility at the very least. He adds height to a small team and while he might not yet have quite as an effective left foot he's played at a higher level and is still improving.

Don't think Roberts has had too many games this season in a struggling side so IMO Friend for Roberts was a very good deal.

Also puzzled why folk say Keegan doesn't offer much more than Wilson so want to offload him, but still want to bloody well keep Wilson, who they've just said doesn't offer as much! Explain that one to me someone please. From the little I saw of him I'd have him over Wilson every time.


    Viking,i think the point on Keegan and Wilson is that Wilson is still under contract and with his wages would be difficult to move on.Even if Keegan is better than Wilson (a point i personally would dispute)they are very similar type of players both doing a job that SOD only likes to play occasionally (injuries permitting).Therefore imo only place for one in the squad so i would have let Keegan go...
    However it seems Keegan has been given a short term deal which can only be 1 of 2 things.Either hes checking his fitness or 2,hes hawking Wilson about to try and move him on and if succesfull sign Keegan..

[Viking Don]

Fair enough, I thought Wilson must be one of the ones out of contract, anyone know how long he's got? If it's another season then yes maybe keeping Keegan wouldn't be prudent.

My point about Friend is that GR is pretty much at the end of his career and couldn't even get into a struggling Derby side, so although GR was a better left back in his last season with us, I'm not so sure he would have been last season, and almost certain he won't be next season, so Friend is a better replacement.

[wing commander]

Viking while i live and breathe that is one point we will never agree on.Gorgeous George is a decent c/b and has done ok,but as a left back he is a liability,constantly caught out of position up field,cant close a man down quick enough to stop a cross and cant pass out with pace to get us going...Ive grown to like George but a championship left back he will never be and cost us goals goals goals when he plays there,Gareth Roberts with one leg and a walking stick is miles better....
  However mate its all about opinions and i admit mine do tend to differ from the norm,for me Oster is our best player,Coppinger has been average this season at best and i think SOD is very lucky he had the injuries he did as im not as convinced about him as i used to be...lol

[Viking Don]

Viking while i live and breathe that is one point we will never agree on.Gorgeous George is a decent c/b and has done ok,but as a left back he is a liability,constantly caught out of position up field,cant close a man down quick enough to stop a cross and cant pass out with pace to get us going...Ive grown to like George but a championship left back he will never be and cost us goals goals goals when he plays there,Gareth Roberts with one leg and a walking stick is miles better....
  However mate its all about opinions and i admit mine do tend to differ from the norm,for me Oster is our best player,Coppinger has been average this season at best and i think SOD is very lucky he had the injuries he did as im not as convinced about him as i used to be...lol

All our left backs have constantly been caught upfield, as have the right backs. I don't put this down to being out of position though, as that's where Sean tells them to play. Billy Whizz can't get back into the 'normal' fullback position when we lose the ball upfield and it gets hoofed forward. The ball goes faster than anyone can ever run so I've never got this 'out of position' stuff, and never understood why George cops for it when all of them do it, Gaz Roberts being no exception.

It is opinions though, but Sean did say that George has defended well all season, so I'm in good company!

[Metalmicky]

And i dont mean in a nasty way to the players going....However even taking into account our terrible injuries,some players were just not good enough for this level.This year the budget is tighter we need to make every player count to the first team in a variety of positions.Sod also indicated that some had been here to long and i expected a good clearout...
   Instead the list appears and its basically a few squad players who hardly feature and Brooker...Well that will free a lot of money up wont it??I can only hope that there is more to come out else we are in big trouble next year imo..

  Personally i would also have released or listed the following...

Burge-Not anywhere near ready for this level and a 1 year deal will just have him back out on loan

Chambers-good player but relies on pace.2 big knee injuries on a tough pitch too risky for me..

Sullivan-Way past his best and means we are sticking with Woods as first choice.....

Martis-list him,cant play more than 2 games and is a liability

Keegan-Not good enough doesnt offer much more than Willo imo so waste of a wage

Lockwood-great servant but again,starting to pile up the injuries and needs to be at his best to be a championship player-list him..



   Now that may seem harsh but that lot out would give SOD room to manouver in the market place..

There ain't half some cack posted on here at times.


Burge - How can you possibly make a judgement on a player that has been seen for 10 minutes in a Rovers shirt.  Did you said the same about Greeny at 23 before he blossomed and turned into the international he now is.

Martis - Haven't checked the regs, but if he signed on a 3 and a half year deal in Jan 2010, I don't believe we can list him

Keegan - In what way was he not good enough.  He played 10 or so games and I seem to remember won many plaudits - this having arrived not match fit and never having played at this level.  I think once fit and with a good pre-season he has plenty of potential.[/b]