Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Copps is Magic on December 09, 2017, 07:26:07 pm
-
2015
League One
15th: Doncaster Rovers P20 W6 Pts24
2017
League One
18th: Doncaster Rovers P21 W6 Pts23
-
And a relegation in between that. But nah he's taking the club forwards!
inb4 dickos
-
I think it's pretty irrelevant where we are on the 9th December to be honest
-
When does being a protracted relegation battle become relevant for you?
In any case, its just a comparison Dickos, one that was meant to highlight how we find ourselves in exactly the same position we did 2 years ago.
-
Well where were we on the 9th Jan 2016??
-
If you want to play that game, where we on the 9th of May 2016?
-
Where are any of us in the grand cosmic scheme of things?
-
Greatest town in the universe, obviously.
-
Come to Doncaster the most cosmic town in the Universe.
-
Cosmic man. We are in trouble again the evidence of that is in the opening post.
Strangely I do think this team and squad are under- performing rather than being weak in numbers and of course quality.
We can dig ourselves out of he perennial shite that we always seem to find ourselves in . We just need to focus rather than "bin " players and seek panacea through multiple changes. We should still achieve and maintain mid- table respectability
Peace man ..........
-
Point being tables mean very little less than halfway through the season. We've shown that many times over the years.
-
You're right dickos. If only we had some broad way of measuring every team's cumulative progress relative to each other?
-
But the table only matters at the end of the season, the year your talking about in middle of January we were in the top ten yet still we got relegated.
Under sod we were bottom on Boxing Day and finished midtable
-
If the table only matters at the end of the season, and it's wrong to be pessimistic halfway through a season when your team is bottom half, surely it is equally wrong to be optimistic when your team is top half? And even more wrong to be optimistic when your team is bottom half?
-
But the table only matters at the end of the season, the year your talking about in middle of January we were in the top ten yet still we got relegated.
Under sod we were bottom on Boxing Day and finished midtable
You're using one occurrence to indicate a rule. When the rule is opposite.
Do you accept we're in a relegation battle?
-
There's two occurrences there
I've said from beginning of the season let's see where we are on Jan 1st.
Apart from the Wigan game I think we've done well over the last 9 or 10 games and we have improved
-
[quote Do you accept we're in a relegation battle?
[/quote]
I'm reserving judgement on this question until after the next 4 REALLY crucial games. Oldham,Bristol Rovers,Northampton & Rochdale. Teams all currently just above or just below Rovers. All winnable, but also all losable in the 90+ mins ! Do well in those & I'll be more optimistic.
-
Good point
I think we need a minimum of 8 points from these 4 games
-
But the table only matters at the end of the season, the year your talking about in middle of January we were in the top ten yet still we got relegated.
No we weren't. I don't think we were ever higher than 12th.
-
But the table only matters at the end of the season, the year your talking about in middle of January we were in the top ten yet still we got relegated.
No we weren't. I don't think we were ever higher than 12th.
I've just checked and we went up to 11th with a 3-0 win at Southend on January 2nd. I might be wrong but I think that was our last win before the horrendous run that saw us relegated so I can only assume that was our highest placing of the season.
-
Good point
I think we need a minimum of 8 points from these 4 games
Think last time I saw a prediction like that being made, it was followed by “if not, then Ferguson must go.”
-
But the table only matters at the end of the season, the year your talking about in middle of January we were in the top ten yet still we got relegated.
No we weren't. I don't think we were ever higher than 12th.
I've just checked and we went up to 11th with a 3-0 win at Southend on January 2nd. I might be wrong but I think that was our last win before the horrendous run that saw us relegated so I can only assume that was our highest placing of the season.
After that, we were never above 12th (admittedly I only checked after 9th January as that was the date he stated).
So we were hardly "top ten yet still relegated". But even if we were, what does it say about the manager if he's able to get into that position then let things fall apart the way they did... I don't understand how saying that he got us there in the first place is any kind of defence for what happened.
-
But the table only matters at the end of the season, the year your talking about in middle of January we were in the top ten yet still we got relegated.
No we weren't. I don't think we were ever higher than 12th.
I've just checked and we went up to 11th with a 3-0 win at Southend on January 2nd. I might be wrong but I think that was our last win before the horrendous run that saw us relegated so I can only assume that was our highest placing of the season.
After that, we were never above 12th (admittedly I only checked after 9th January as that was the date he stated).
So we were hardly "top ten yet still relegated". But even if we were, what does it say about the manager if he's able to get into that position then let things fall apart the way they did... I don't understand how saying that he got us there in the first place is any kind of defence for what happened.
Oh sorry,
We were 11th in January then and got relegated 🙄
-
Good point
I think we need a minimum of 8 points from these 4 games
Think last time I saw a prediction like that being made, it was followed by “if not, then Ferguson must go.
Nice to see you back chris, I've missed you these last two weekends.
I knew a defeat would bring you back
Must be horrible wanting the team you support to lose just to prove your point about the manager
-
But the table only matters at the end of the season, the year your talking about in middle of January we were in the top ten yet still we got relegated.
No we weren't. I don't think we were ever higher than 12th.
I've just checked and we went up to 11th with a 3-0 win at Southend on January 2nd. I might be wrong but I think that was our last win before the horrendous run that saw us relegated so I can only assume that was our highest placing of the season.
After that, we were never above 12th (admittedly I only checked after 9th January as that was the date he stated).
So we were hardly "top ten yet still relegated". But even if we were, what does it say about the manager if he's able to get into that position then let things fall apart the way they did... I don't understand how saying that he got us there in the first place is any kind of defence for what happened.
Oh sorry,
We were 11th in January then and got relegated 🙄
Aye. Not sure how that can be held up as a defence of his skills as a manager, like. :laugh:
-
Never said it did, the discussion was about the league table but you seem to always want to bring it back to him
-
Probably because, uh, he was and still is the manager over that timeframe.
-
We're uh talking about uh league tables mate, got nothing to do with the uh manager.
-
So you can't judge a manager by where the team he's managing is in the league? what a f**king ridiculous statement hahaha.
-
Read through this thread only you have mentioned ferguson, you're having your own conversation
-
So are you or are you not of the opinion that the league position of a team is nothing to do with its manager?
-
I'd be less inclined to point the finger at the manager if I wasn't seeing the same problems costing us games.
-
So are you or are you not of the opinion that the league position of a team is nothing to do with its manager?
Nope, but I'm not of the opinion that it's purely down to the manager. Just because I didn't want him in the first place
-
It's all well and good talking about changing the manager but who the hell do we get in? And, more importantly, who does the Board think they need? If the protracted search, that ended up getting DF in the first place, is repeated, then who amongst you all think that the process would be any different this time and achieve different results?
Personally, I think it's the last thing the Board wants or needs and there is no evidence that suggests otherwise. I have no idea what they were thinking before the season started and how those thoughts have changed since, but we'll get some idea when we see what happens in January. If we don't strengthen and with more experience, then the writing's on the wall. Then, they can rip up the 5 year plan and start again.
-
Alan, to say "who would we get in" is a good reason for not changing a football club manager is laughable really.
How would we know who is available or who would apply ?
Maybe someone would come in and do a better job than DF (if it was to be the Rovers of course).
If we were bottom of the league would it still be a good reason not to sack DF because we dont know who would come in ?
-
It's all well and good talking about changing the manager but who the hell do we get in? And, more importantly, who does the Board think they need? If the protracted search, that ended up getting DF in the first place, is repeated, then who amongst you all think that the process would be any different this time and achieve different results?
Personally, I think it's the last thing the Board wants or needs and there is no evidence that suggests otherwise. I have no idea what they were thinking before the season started and how those thoughts have changed since, but we'll get some idea when we see what happens in January. If we don't strengthen and with more experience, then the writing's on the wall. Then, they can rip up the 5 year plan and start again.
Why would you rip up a 5 year plan when you're only 2 years into it?
-
Depends when it started? In a few months its 2 and half years since Fergie took over. If you aren't at least reviewing it, you're doing something wrong.
-
Depends what the plan was in the first place
-
It's all well and good talking about changing the manager but who the hell do we get in? And, more importantly, who does the Board think they need? If the protracted search, that ended up getting DF in the first place, is repeated, then who amongst you all think that the process would be any different this time and achieve different results?
Personally, I think it's the last thing the Board wants or needs and there is no evidence that suggests otherwise. I have no idea what they were thinking before the season started and how those thoughts have changed since, but we'll get some idea when we see what happens in January. If we don't strengthen and with more experience, then the writing's on the wall. Then, they can rip up the 5 year plan and start again.
Why would you rip up a 5 year plan when you're only 2 years into it?
Where did the board hope we'd be at the half-way point of this plan?
-
Depends what the plan was in the first place
Do you think it was to be 3 places lower than when we started?
-
We're not even halfway through.
And we're actually 5 places higher than when Ferguson took charge of his first game
-
The clue is in the name. It's a five year plan!
Yes, some people don't like what they are watching all of the time but last year was great bar the last few games. Too many clubs change the manager every year. Let's stick with it and if we have failed to gain promotion to the championship at the end of it then we let him go.
-
We're not even halfway through.
And we're actually 5 places higher than when Ferguson took charge of his first game
2 places higher, actually.
Was that the plan?
-
The clue is in the name. It's a five year plan!
Yes, some people don't like what they are watching all of the time but last year was great bar the last few games. Too many clubs change the manager every year. Let's stick with it and if we have failed to gain promotion to the championship at the end of it then we let him go.
It was great while plan A was working. That is, free flowing, free scoring attacking football; that could gloss over conceding more than you'd prefer.
Now the scoring has abated the weaknesses, vulnerabilities have come to the fore. If it's a five year plan to get promoted to the championship and you're in the bottom tier of the football league with a year to go, then there's no point it being a five year plan. Hence, you review it regularly.
In my opinion, Ferguson has built a half decent squad, including some players of good age with good potential. But it consistently not getting the best out of them.
-
We're not even halfway through.
And we're actually 5 places higher than when Ferguson took charge of his first game
2 places higher, actually.
Was that the plan?
18th now and 23rd before the Shrewsbury game which was his first game in charge
-
Liam Holden tweeted this, a neutral! He's slagged off Ferguson before..
Seen some ludicrous reactions to yesterday’s defeat. If you couldn’t see further progress in that team yesterday, especially in 2nd half, then I don’t know what you were watching #drfc
-
It's become a common maxim hasn't it? The players are improving, we're improving. Pretty useless so much improvement with absolutely no quantifiable improvement by any measure, however much we split hairs over it.
-
Well if you look over our last 6 games and compare with the previous 6 games you would see improvement
-
That's a bit silly dickos ( unless over the 2nd set of 6 we played exactly the same teams as in the first set of 6) otherwise the end result ( improvement) cannot be measured.
-
Doesn't need to be the same teams, were part of the same league so within a run of 6 games you'd get to play a good variety of good and bad sides.
A good marker of improvement would be the two Scunthorpe games
-
As I recall, the five year plan was for us to be a sustainable Championship club, not to be promoted to the Championship in five years.
-
We are three points off the relegation places.
This does not represent any kind of progress in the last two years.
Lots of money put in by our generous owners, very little if anything in return.
Not nearly good enough given our significant resources, great season ticket sales and supportive supporter base.
-
Doesn't need to be the same teams, were part of the same league so within a run of 6 games you'd get to play a good variety of good and bad sides.
A good marker of improvement would be the two Scunthorpe games
OK. Last 6 matches, if all were league ( against L1 opposition , Cant count ebbsfleet) would have yielded 8 points, previous 6 would have yielded 8 points. Where is the improvement,
-
I think it's pretty irrelevant where we are on the 9th December to be honest
I agree with this.
It's a different season with different circumstances. By comparison we're very similar, but just because we capitulated after the New Year two seasons ago, doesn't mean we'll do the same again.
-
Doesn't need to be the same teams, were part of the same league so within a run of 6 games you'd get to play a good variety of good and bad sides.
A good marker of improvement would be the two Scunthorpe games
OK. Last 6 matches, if all were league ( against L1 opposition , Cant count ebbsfleet) would have yielded 8 points, previous 6 would have yielded 8 points. Where is the improvement,
You'd be counting the cup if we'd lost to Scunthorpe
I said last 6 games regardless of competition
-
I did count Scunny.
Oxford 0 pts,Scunny3,Rochdale1,MKD3,Wigan0,fleetwood1 = 8pts.
Rotherham 1pt,Scun 1,Bury 3, Walsall 0, Portsmouth 3, Charlton 0 = 8pts.
I discounted Ebbsfleet though cos you said "Part of the same league".
Where is the improvement I ask again.
-
I think there has, Scunthorpe best performance of the season, 2nd half v mk dons also up there. Very unlucky v oxford.
-
There has not been any improvement in results, shown by (theoretical points gained ),performances maybe better, but not to any great degree.
I take it your improvement is centred on possession , but as has been proved time and again, its what you do with that possession that counts.
-
I think there has, Scunthorpe best performance of the season, 2nd half v mk dons also up there. Very unlucky v oxford.
Some of the worst performances of the season in there though as well mate.
Wigan, Walsall, Fleetwood as well as first halves against MKD, Rotherham and Charlton.
-
This is getting a bit pointless now..
Despite what we may perceive as generally better performances, or not, the only stats that count are goals for and against and therefore the results and the table..
Remember the first 24 games of season 2008/9? Rock bottom yet having played our best football for decades..
We can argue about stats and tweak which set of games we include to skew any argument but that ultimately makes bugger all difference..
We need to pick up points, regardless of performances..
-
Not possession no, but playing well, creating chances scoring goals, giving very little away.
We were a nats cock off winning three on the bounce at the weekend.
How often have we done that over the last 3 or 4 years
-
This is getting a bit pointless now..
Despite what we may perceive as generally better performances, or not, the only stats that count are goals for and against and therefore the results and the table..
Remember the first 24 games of season 2008/9? Rock bottom yet having played our best football for decades..
We can argue about stats and tweak which set of games we include to skew any argument but that ultimately makes bugger all difference..
We need to pick up points, regardless of performances..
100% agree with that last line.
-
Why would you rip up a 5 year plan when you're only 2 years into it?
Read that within the context that it was written, SM. Do not misconstrue what the theme of the piece said. I could wax lyrical for ages about what I think is right, wrong or indifferent, but it's not what I think, it's what the Board think and do. The argument I am putting forward is that to get rid of the manager is to basically say......right, that didn't work, we go again. The manager being removed from office basically stirs up a whole hornets nest of questions, which are, quite frankly, unanswerable.
There is no way the Board would say to a new manager - by the way, we're already halfway through our 5 year plan, so you have to get us in the Championship in half the time we were prepared to give Fergie jnr.
Just not feasible. Therefore, the previous 5 year plan would become null and void and we would start again with something else!
-
I would expect the board to revise its plans at least every year, regardless of the original longevity..
Football is full of too many variables - there is no way that every clubs’ plans will be successfully achieved..
-
Why would you rip up a 5 year plan when you're only 2 years into it?
Read that within the context that it was written, SM. Do not misconstrue what the theme of the piece said. I could wax lyrical for ages about what I think is right, wrong or indifferent, but it's not what I think, it's what the Board think and do. The argument I am putting forward is that to get rid of the manager is to basically say......right, that didn't work, we go again. The manager being removed from office basically stirs up a whole hornets nest of questions, which are, quite frankly, unanswerable.
There is no way the Board would say to a new manager - by the way, we're already halfway through our 5 year plan, so you have to get us in the Championship in half the time we were prepared to give Fergie jnr.
Just not feasible. Therefore, the previous 5 year plan would become null and void and we would start again with something else!
I would disagree. Of course the board are quite within their rights to spell out, as part of initial interviews, that the club is 2 years into a 5 year plan to be a settled championship side when interviewing new managers. The plan is a plan for Club Doncaster and shouldn't rely on any individual for that to succeed, its either a sound and solid objective for the club to aim for or its not. Of course business plans are always subject to continuous review and no doubt frequent updates will be given at the clubs board meetings with the strategy filtered down throughout the club at regular exec or management meetings. But to scrap the plan because of a change of manager means the strategy isn't flexible enough and is far too heavily biased in one direction.
At work we've just appointed a new Sales Director after something like 17 years continuous service, but have we changed any of our objectives or targets? No, not a single one. And that's exactly how it should be.
-
Why would you rip up a 5 year plan when you're only 2 years into it?
Read that within the context that it was written, SM. Do not misconstrue what the theme of the piece said. I could wax lyrical for ages about what I think is right, wrong or indifferent, but it's not what I think, it's what the Board think and do. The argument I am putting forward is that to get rid of the manager is to basically say......right, that didn't work, we go again. The manager being removed from office basically stirs up a whole hornets nest of questions, which are, quite frankly, unanswerable.
There is no way the Board would say to a new manager - by the way, we're already halfway through our 5 year plan, so you have to get us in the Championship in half the time we were prepared to give Fergie jnr.
Just not feasible. Therefore, the previous 5 year plan would become null and void and we would start again with something else!
I would disagree. Of course the board are quite within their rights to spell out, as part of initial interviews, that the club is 2 years into a 5 year plan to be a settled championship side when interviewing new managers. The plan is a plan for Club Doncaster and shouldn't rely on any individual for that to succeed, its either a sound and solid objective for the club to aim for or its not. Of course business plans are always subject to continuous review and no doubt frequent updates will be given at the clubs board meetings with the strategy filtered down throughout the club at regular exec or management meetings. But to scrap the plan because of a change of manager means the strategy isn't flexible enough and is far too heavily biased in one direction.
At work we've just appointed a new Sales Director after something like 17 years continuous service, but have we changed any of our objectives or targets? No, not a single one. And that's exactly how it should be.
Not saying we are there yet, but at what point do they consider whether the manager is capable of delivering their strategic objectives?
-
Like anything else the 5 year plan will have lots of targets to achieve..They will involve a lot of off the field targets around club Doncaster, as well as on the field targets as regards the team..
Off the field from what I can see we have seen nothing but growth and improvement when it comes to the corporate aspect of the club and club Doncaster, and I would guess that they are pretty much on track with that...
On the field is a different prospect,i would suggest that relegation cost us more than 1 season when it comes to the on field plan..Yes it only took 1 season to get back but there are other implications..The players that would play league 2 football are of less quality and whilst they may have been good enough to get us out of league 2 are they good enough to compete at the business end of league 1..I suggest not but to turn those back around again takes 2 years at least...
You cant argue that we are pretty much back to where we started from when he came, a below average league 1 side...The difference is they are his players this time not Dickov's so for me we need to start seeing some big improvement after January for him to be allowed to take us forward next season...
-
I would expect the board to revise its plans at least every year, regardless of the original longevity..
Football is full of too many variables - there is no way that every clubs’ plans will be successfully achieved..
Exactly, so when we got relegated the plan would obviously have been revised.
Yet people keep saying well we're two years into the plan and no further forward.
The revised plan at beginning of last season was promotion, and this year it would have been consolidation, and then next year push for playoffs.
People are trying to write the future
-
Interesting to see how teams in tier 3 in 18th position on 9 Dec have finished over the past 20 seasons. Red x is when they changed the manager during that season, with month of change:
7 x
8 x
9 x x
10 x (oct)
11 x x
12
13 x
14 x x (jan) x (dec)
15 x (march)
16
17 x x (feb)
18
19 x
20 x
21
22 x x x (oct+dec) x (dec+mar)
23
24
A snapshot, but a slight trend towards staying with the manager being the best outcome, though I think it's more to do with the club's overall situation as to what happens by the end of the season :chair:
-
Only 4 out of 20 is quite surprising as is 7 sides finishing in the top half
-
Interesting bit of information BRR. Good bye the play-offs it seems. Which, give the 12 point gap and one game advantage Charlton have (plus 12 teams to overcome), seems to be a realistic thing to say at this point.
-
A lot of the stuff in this thread is over analysing way too many things.
The fact is that three of our next four games, weather permitting, are at home so therefore it's an ideal chance to put some points on the board and climb up the table.
If we do that, it'll put us nearer to achieving what we want to achieve.
Last week when I suggested Oxford away was a very difficult game, someone pointed out that a win there would have put us within one point of them.
For me, they're a good team that will be in or around the play-offs come May.
It just shows how close the league is that we went there and very nearly got something, and that we also aren't far away from being in that cluster of mid-table teams.
We should be more positive about what we can achieve as a team rather than constantly worrying about what we may not achieve.
I still think by the end of the season, we'll fall into the bracket of being an unspectacular, boring team in mid-table who didn't pull up many trees but for this season, that's good enough for us!
-
We should be more positive about what we can achieve as a team rather than constantly worrying about what we may not achieve.
See I don't get this? Do you think Fergie sends the team out saying 'stop worrying about what we may not achieve'?. Of course he doesn't, he tries to instill every bit of positivity he can - and the end result is exactly where we find ourselves and exactly the performances we put in.
-
The fundamental point that surely all folk must agree on is that given resources available, it is not much cop is it?
Kinda “doing ok” or “look alright”. Fact is that over two years on and god knows how much cash shovelled into club by our generous owners, we are three points off the relegation zone.
Injuries, “bad luck”, “played well and should have had something”, “ref was biased”, all of this must make us the unluckiest club in the world these last two years.
It is not good enough and shows no sign of consistently getting better, to at least reflect the resources we have available.
How we improve is another question, but surely nobody credible can doubt that these have been two lost years and we are back where we started pretty much, three points off the relegation places.
-
if we were the unluckiest club in the world we wouldn't have got promoted last season though?
maybe, just maybe, that's football...
-
The fundamental point that surely all folk must agree on is that given resources available, it is not much cop is it?
Kinda “doing ok” or “look alright”. Fact is that over two years on and god knows how much cash shovelled into club by our generous owners, we are three points off the relegation zone.
Injuries, “bad luck”, “played well and should have had something”, “ref was biased”, all of this must make us the unluckiest club in the world these last two years.
It is not good enough and shows no sign of consistently getting better, to at least reflect the resources we have available.
How we improve is another question, but surely nobody credible can doubt that these have been two lost years and we are back where we started pretty much, three points off the relegation places.
Where did you expect to be this season after 21 games?
-
Interesting bit of information BRR. Good bye the play-offs it seems. Which, give the 12 point gap and one game advantage Charlton have (plus 12 teams to overcome), seems to be a realistic thing to say at this point.
Not sure anyone has been thinking playoffs this season
-
Do you think it was completely written off by management, players, fans?
If it wasn't an objective what is the point of the 5 year plan to get into the championship? 4 years of consolidation and when we're fully consolidated actually go for it?
-
I mean now!
Those stats aren't needed to show we ain't going to get in the playoffs, but they're interesting as they show more teams in our position finish higher than 18th than lower come may
-
Do you think it was completely written off by management, players, fans?
If it wasn't an objective what is the point of the 5 year plan to get into the championship? 4 years of consolidation and when we're fully consolidated actually go for it?
Copps, the objective was to be a sustainable Championship club in five years, not just to get there in five years.
It is my understanding that to be sustainable in that division we have to be in it before the five years is up and prove that we can stay there.
-
Yes but when we got relegated do you not think this plan may have been revised? As has been stated previously it would be ludicrous not to reassess.
In august 2016 we would all have been happy to be 21st in the league above in 15 months time
-
Yes but when we got relegated do you not think this plan may have been revised? As has been stated previously it would be ludicrous not to reassess.
In august 2016 we would all have been happy to be 21st in the league above in 15 months time
Is that right?
-
People who say they didn't think that are telling lies.
All that mattered last season was promotion and there were many many posters on here who said we wouldn't go up.
And it's mainly the same posters who are now moaning.
-
We should be more positive about what we can achieve as a team rather than constantly worrying about what we may not achieve.
See I don't get this? Do you think Fergie sends the team out saying 'stop worrying about what we may not achieve'?. Of course he doesn't, he tries to instill every bit of positivity he can - and the end result is exactly where we find ourselves and exactly the performances we put in.
I think as a fanbase, certainly this forum, we could be a lot more positive.
There's some folk who still bang on about the screw up in the last 4/5 games of last season and how we should have won the league (which is correct), but they then choose to ignore the fact we achieved our target with five games to spare.
So they're seeking a negative when there's plenty to be positive about.
Whether that rubs off onto the players, I don't know, but collectively they seem to have a big problem of going weak in the backside when it's getting towards the end of the game and they are having to defend for something.
But when all is said and done, our initial aim is to stay up and right now we're not in the relegation zone, so we're on target for what we want to achieve this season.
Of course, that's not hiding away from the fact that there's lots of things we could be better at and need to improve, if we want to challenge teams such as Oxford who have greater expectations than ourselves right now.
-
CBCB, you mention resources a few times in your piece. By resources, do you mean the players? If you do, I'd question your argument. If you mean budget, again, I would ask what you think it is?
For the players we have, I think we are exactly where we should be, give or take 2 or 3 places higher. We have gone from being an over aged team on the slide to being a much younger average aged team with a lot of (unfulfilled) promise, but still with the odd over aged player still hanging on.
The inconsistency of youth is well in evidence in our games so far and this, as yet, has not been corrected. I believe the only way to correct that is to both improve the young lads we already have (a work in progress) and re-inforce what we have with 2 or 3 lads in their mid 20's who have experience at this level, or higher, in January. If we don't do the latter, then we could end up dropping down again.
-
Alan - I mean financial resources, which is still the major determinant of success - although not the only determinant certainly.
The Board provides the resources and the manager is responsible for spending them. We are told we have a top half budget, yet at no stage this season I do not think have we been in the top half and we are currently three points off the relegation zone.
In the words of John Lydon, “ever feel you have been cheated”?
-
We were told we had a 'competitive' budget, not a top half budget. This one single point has never been resolved, imo, and I think we are where we are because of the budget, that is to say I believe it's one of the main factors for us being where we are. Yes, I agree, the manager has to take his share of responsibility and so do the players, individually and collectively. But, again it's only an opinion, I think the budget that was set was, with hindsight, inadequate for what we needed in this division. Let's see if there is anything left to go round in January!
-
I think if you ask those on this forum who would know, they would make the point that top half budget is what we have this season.
I do not think we can lay any blame to our owners for the mess of the last two years. They provide the tools, it is for others to put them to work properly.
-
We should be more positive about what we can achieve as a team rather than constantly worrying about what we may not achieve.
See I don't get this? Do you think Fergie sends the team out saying 'stop worrying about what we may not achieve'?. Of course he doesn't, he tries to instill every bit of positivity he can - and the end result is exactly where we find ourselves and exactly the performances we put in.
I think as a fanbase, certainly this forum, we could be a lot more positive.
There's some folk who still bang on about the screw up in the last 4/5 games of last season and how we should have won the league (which is correct), but they then choose to ignore the fact we achieved our target with five games to spare.
So they're seeking a negative when there's plenty to be positive about.
Whether that rubs off onto the players, I don't know, but collectively they seem to have a big problem of going weak in the backside when it's getting towards the end of the game and they are having to defend for something.
But when all is said and done, our initial aim is to stay up and right now we're not in the relegation zone, so we're on target for what we want to achieve this season.
Of course, that's not hiding away from the fact that there's lots of things we could be better at and need to improve, if we want to challenge teams such as Oxford who have greater expectations than ourselves right now.
Yes, agreed that we achieved the promotion target with five games to spare and credit is due for that.
However, it is well documented that DF said after the Mansfield game that the aim was to win the title.
-
Yes and we didn't.
Hardly a disaster is it?
You say credit is due for promotion but hardly anyone gives this credit.
Promotion isn't easy whatever league you're in
-
Yes and we didn't.
Hardly a disaster is it?
You say credit is due for promotion but hardly anyone gives this credit.
Promotion isn't easy whatever league you're in
I would say is was a disaster, although promotion isn't easy it is even more difficult to win titles.
If you were to ask any of the players they would have been gutted that they missed out on picking up a medal.
How many chances do lower league players get to win something?
Also, on a personal note, it cost me and some others money as we had bets on Rovers to win the league.
-
If you think getting promotion straight away after relegation is a disaster then you shouldn't be a football fan.
If that's a disaster what would finishing midtable have been, like many other relegated sides only achieve
-
If you think getting promotion straight away after relegation is a disaster then you shouldn't be a football fan.
If that's a disaster what would finishing midtable have been, like many other relegated sides only achieve
You are clearly changing the tone of the conversation now.
You know as well as i do that my "disaster" comment is aimed at us blowing the title, not at getting promotion.
It is very clear from the previous posts on the subject.
-
Not winning the title was a disappointment..
That’s the word I would choose to use..
-
Not winning the title was a disappointment..
That’s the word I would choose to use..
This is how I would describe it
-
I suppose when you've had a few quid on it and had probably thought it was coming in you would be gutted...
I've got to be honest and say it didn't really bother me that much,ok it would have been nice but everything was about getting out of that league at the first attempt because if you don't you can find it takes a lot longer than you think...We did that although like everybody else I'm disappointed we haven't kicked on at all,although Injuries to important new signings have contributed to that massively..imo
-
Whichever way you look at it winning the title would have finished the season on a high rather than an anticlimax. There would have been more bounce through the close season both for players and fans. What's happened has happened but me should still learn from it.
-
That is an excellent reminder, Wing Commander, re the injury and illness to both Andrew and Kiwomya respectively. Although, I wouldn't describe it as a 'massive' blow to us, I do certainly think that both those players could have made a significant difference to some of our results. Certainly, in Andrew's case, although we got a speedy replacement in Toffolo, what we didn't get was a like for like replacement. With Kiwomya, we simply don't know what he could bring to the table and whether we'll ever know is in the lap of the Gods, to a degree. Hopefully, the lad makes an excellent impact on his long-awaited debut.
We have to get in (at least) a couple of shrewd signings in January and, on top of that, replace any returning loanees with players as good but preferably better.
The other player we haven't seen all season, so far, is McCullough and who knows whether he will ever get back to full fitness - I hope so, for the sake of the squad strength in depth.