Black Bank

[Askern_reds]

All these chants have been taken directly from viral youtube videos of other groups of fans. I don't read any more or any less into it than that.

going back to steward situation copps take a look at that clipp you put on here when we got beat 4.3 by Wigan fantastic footage may I say, Wigan fans on Rosso end take a look at the policeing ? 1 copp in each corner of the ground, point been is there any need for the amount of stewards at games? could it be cheaper to go back to the police? I don't no but think the police would av a lot more respect shown than what we av to put up with now

[newyankee]

My final take on this is that we are trying to kick out racism from football. Racism is not just a black or brown thing, it applies to all  races, Germans included. We all know the view of British people years ago to Germans, but modern youth, British and German, knew nothing of the war. It needs to stay that way.

  We used to tell jokes about the Irish, they are now very few and far between, funny as many were, they are still racist.  Please Black Bankers, support the team, use your brains to come up with intelligent chants, but don't stoop to the depths of those at Leeds, Millwall and Chelsea, make the Keepmoat a place where people want to go, or come to if a visiting supporter.

[Copps is Magic]

Bill, I'm suggesting we may have to sacrifice originality (or sensibility) to simply get some noise in the Keepmoat. Of which, there was very little last season and we had terrible home form which may be a coincidence or not.

[Askern_reds]

omg where's the racism ? it was banter strukman had a chuckle

[BillyStubbsTears]

Copps

I'm suggesting that if we are so desperate for faux atmosphere that we resort to singing ex-NF songs about the IRA, frankly I'd rather see us lose in a library.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

May be "We've signed a German brick shithouse" is  more acceptable and a compliment to his goalkeeping prowess?

BTW, can't we see the silly chanting afterwards were a protest. They were pissed off!

[Askern_reds]

how long you go to bv Bill? the songs back then were far worse than the ones now did you moan then about racism or did you find it banter between different fans and teams

[neil grainger]

Anyway ... if anyone wants my opinion and they usually don't here goes

I was not offended by the Flag in any way ... but the chant of Big F******g German is not clever. The word f****** has become meaningless and as in this case is merely a "filler" for people who cant put anything better in its place.

Surely someone in the Black Bank which did add a lot to the atmosphere even with an almost empty Ground can come up with something better to chant than We've got a Big f*****g German ? We did not sing Billy Billy f*****g Sharp did we or Oh Jamie Jamie, Jamie Jamie  f*****g Coppinger ?

That said the Stewards over reacted and presumably they were only "doing their jobs" and had been ordered to get the "offending" Flag and remove it from view

Oh well that's it 

Spot on Donnywolf, well said.

[Copps is Magic]

Bill,

Do you honestly think the association between the national front and that chant is in the minds of those singing in the South Stand?

It seems to me to be more part of the daft parochialism that pervades football where someone has to hate someone else. I was in the SS for the Sunderland game and looking around the average age must have been shy of 16. Ask an average member of that crowd 5 questions about the NF or the IRA and they would struggle on question one. As I said, the more correct association is that people have seen England fans singing the exact same song on youtube videos and simply copied it.

Now, I think it's a ridiculous chant that I wouldn't take part in. But the point is I don't think we can or should sit here and dissect every single chant (as seems to be going on) for whether it matches one particular political disposition or not. There is a very fine difference, but a difference nonetheless, between a daft chant and being racist, sexist, etc. etc.

[neil grainger]

Why not use chuffin? At least it's a Yorkshirrism. The atmosphere was good until the steward/flag episode and then the f@!! The IRA chant, what's that to do with us or football.

IRA chant?! 
I wasn't there today, and I admit to having mixed feelings about the whole Black Bank thing. Nevertheless, I applaud any attempt to improve the atmosphere at the KM and to get more vocal support behind the team.

But....IRA chant?

[Sammy Chung was King]

Why don't the club pipe in crowd noises through the speakers, and everybody whisper and wait they're turn, because they are in a library?.
Because that's what our atmosphere has been for years, loads of librarians sat on they're hands humming Cum by ar and sucking on a Werthers original !.
Of course there are boundaries but what has happened to this country that we think Germans would be insulted by us putting swear words on a flag that were terms of endearment and not an insult, the way you say things can mean two different things just by the manner it's said.
I have no links to the Black Bank i am just sick of this country being so scared of it's own shadow, we dare not have an opinion, it's a way of wearing people down into robots, people need to be able to express they're personalities in life, or really what is the point?!.

Just to add though respect needs to be shown to somebody who doesn't want to get up and sing or can't, everybody should do what they want to as they're personality governs.

[Askern_reds]

at last comon sence as just walked through the door well said

[knockers]

Askern- you sent me a pm- nothing on it?

[Askern_reds]

r u sure

[bpoolrover]

It becomes a joke when people say big f**king German is racist,it might not be to everyone's taste but come on get a grip,I have seen certain members say far worse on this forum than that

[drfchound]

I remember when Frank le Boeff played for Chelsea and his song was the old
"he's here, he's there, he's every f***ing where, Frank le Boeff etc"

He put a note is a newspaper write up, or maybe a club programme, saying that he wasn't keen on having a swear word in his song so the following week the fans sang,
"he's here, he's there, we're not allowed to swear, Frank le Boeff etc ".

[The Red Baron]

Why not call him BFG? He can then be Big Friendly Giant or Big F German depending on how you look at it?

As in "BFG, BFG, BFG... Etc.

[The Red Baron]

Copps

I'm suggesting that if we are so desperate for faux atmosphere that we resort to singing ex-NF songs about the IRA, frankly I'd rather see us lose in a library.

The IRA chant is not only unoriginal but it is also very out of date. Hopefully it will die a death.

I don't think people should get so hung up about the use of the F-word in chants though. So long as Stuckmann isn't offended then I don't see a problem.

A few years back Coventry had a massive centre back called Mohammed (Mo) Konjic. He was a Bosnian muslim and he'd had some involvement in the Yugoslav wars. He was something of a cult hero. He had a song, to the tune of Volare:

"Mohammed, oh-ho,
Mohammed, ooh-ho.
He comes from Bosnia,
He is a big f***er..."

He absolutely loved it, and became even more of a cult hero as a result!

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The issue is not with the flags, or the chanting but whom is making judgements on behalf of the club as to what's acceptable or not.

If this person has a low tolerance and will act accordingly, shouldn't we know what his criteria are?

[Yorkiered]

Should all this not have been agreed weeks ago? The Safety office or Chief Steward could have been present and informed the fans what kind of sanitised chanting/banners/flags etc would be allowed.

[wilts rover]

I dont think it is Baz. I personally dont like swearing in chants, and dont sing those chants, but as you can see there is plenty of evidence for vocal swearing at football matches over many years - and I guess for many years to come. But no-one has yet posted evidence of a fans having a banner with swear words in it, in any language, that stayed in place for any length of time at a football match.

It is not culturally acceptable, like flares, so whoever in Black Bank thought it would be, is just asking for trouble. Or more likely being an egocentric arrogant t**t.

[Yorkiered]

I think the main lesson to learn is NEVER us Google translate. It is garbage and doesn't do the job for which it is intended.
Maybe the Blank Bank have been somewhat naïve in their planning.

[Copps is Magic]

We need to cut the Blank Bank some slack and have some faith in people to make their own minds up about what they do and chant.

I find it really sad that probably the same people who complain about soulless modern football, where we're all sat down in silence not daring to say anything out of the ordinary, are the same people putting everything that the BB does under a moralising microscope.

I go to a football match knowing that some people in the crowd are a bit rough round the edges and have different opinions to me. But I don't believe the way to tackle that ignorance is to excessively limit and control what people can do inside a football stadium.

[Underwood]

Should all this not have been agreed weeks ago? The Safety office or Chief Steward could have been present and informed the fans what kind of sanitised chanting/banners/flags etc would be allowed.

So us as fans should have to clear all chants with the club first?

No wonder so many are against"modern football"

[Yorkiered]

Should all this not have been agreed weeks ago? The Safety office or Chief Steward could have been present and informed the fans what kind of sanitised chanting/banners/flags etc would be allowed.

So us as fans should have to clear all chants with the club first?

No wonder so many are against"modern football"

You obviously cannot see the sarcasm in my post UW

[Sprotyrover]

Hey Cubby's why not merely take a simple  kids song about our beloved Yorkshire moorland Heather and rather than use its Latin Name Erika,supplement it with Stuckman.
All you are singing is on the heath there is a lovely little flowering plant and it's called Erika 
Here you go

http://youtu.be/o1bPwwLlfYU

[GVARover]

Always interesting to see how these threads develop, and that this one seems to have moved from a banner and steward actions to chants and the general sanitisation of modern football...
Apologies up front but this could be a bit long.
Initial issue, a banner that upset someone, maybe several someones.  Big difference between a banner and a chant is that the banner is permanent, always present, a continuous irritation to those offended. Chants are a "of the moment" thing and are less likely to cause a problem, unless they are truly offensive.
Second issue, behaviour of the stewards. Appears from comments that this was not well handled - steward behaviour needs to be addressed by the Club but response of the owner of the banner should also be considered - is it so wrong to react positively when someone says you have, in all innocence, done something wrong or should the mentality always be "f**k 'em"?  The latter approach is always likely to lead to trouble.
Defending abusive or inappropriate chants by saying it was OK in the past is pretty weak, if this argument held then we would still have slavery, the workhouse and Lords of the castle having first night with any women getting married, amongst many other less than desirable historically accepted behaviours. Like it or not we are in the 21st century and what is generally regarded as acceptable is not the same as it was in even the last century...
So, no fun to be had then (just for info I had my share of 70's and 80's style supporting)?  I hope this is not the case, if those involved can be so dedicated and creative in getting the Black Bank up and running they can surely create the right atmosphere that will please most if not all.
If you don't read, or agree with any of the above just take two thoughts away:
- vist FC St Pauli website and see how this German club has built an atmosphere and a modern day ethos with very vocal supporters groups and the club working together
- our club crest is a Viking, these guys were pretty brutal in their day but in terms of beliefs and how people choose to live their view was you can live and believe what you like, just don't assume I want to live and believe the same thing and don't try and push it down my throat or we will have a problem - a bit of respect both ways goes a long way maybe...
Good job I only reply once in a blue moon eh?

[silent majority]

But we have met with the club and discussed certain tolerance levels!!

As I posted yesterday there was a mistake made, a bit on both parts, and that further talks will be had this week to clarify one or two things.

And again, it's all a bit of a storm in a tea cup.

[GVARover]

SM - much shorter way of saying what I was trying to say 

[DonnyOsmond]

It becomes a joke when people say big f***ing German is racist,it might not be to everyone's taste but come on get a grip,I have seen certain members say far worse on this forum than that

I don't think anyone said it's racist?