Brexit is the best thing that ever happened to Britain

[Sprotyrover]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/16/nitrogen-wars-the-dutch-farmers-revolt-that-turned-a-nation-upside-down

[Sprotyrover]

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/01/08/uk-manufacturers-are-optimistic-about-2024

[SydneyRover]

sprot, are you happy subsidies are being cut or happy the farmers are protesting or both?

[Sprotyrover]

I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!

[SydneyRover]

I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!

The elected representative from 27 countries?

[Sprotyrover]

I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!

The elected representative from 27 countries?

That’s why I voted leave Syd,it’s bad enough in South Yorkshire with Oliver Coppard screwing us here in Doncaster with his Trams funding!

[BillyStubbsTears]

I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!

The elected representative from 27 countries?

That’s why I voted leave Syd,it’s bad enough in South Yorkshire with Oliver Coppard screwing us here in Doncaster with his Trams funding!

Yeah. Who wanted that €3bn that the Eurocrats were going to give to Yorkshire anyway, eh?

f**king hell fire, I seem to have slipped through the cracks into a looking glass world

[selby]

  Latest report is that some countries want to strip Hungary of their vote because they are scared of Oban and the rise of the right in other countries getting together to upset the nice little earner others have built for themselves.
  Is that a new way of democracy, if it doesn't agree with you get rid of it.
  Now I don't like, and have no respect for the bloke, or his politics, but, if the voting system allows the right whether you like it or not to win elections, in say France, Hungary, Italy, and the Netherlands, something that was hard to imagine just a few years ago, should the system really be changed just to stop the popular vote?
 It is a question the EU might have to answer shortly.

[Not Now Kato]

Meanwhile, the Government has announced, in parliament, a genuine Brexit benefit.
 
https://twitter.com/thatcymraes/status/1745096744965173456
 
 

[tyke1962]

  Latest report is that some countries want to strip Hungary of their vote because they are scared of Oban and the rise of the right in other countries getting together to upset the nice little earner others have built for themselves.
  Is that a new way of democracy, if it doesn't agree with you get rid of it.
  Now I don't like, and have no respect for the bloke, or his politics, but, if the voting system allows the right whether you like it or not to win elections, in say France, Hungary, Italy, and the Netherlands, something that was hard to imagine just a few years ago, should the system really be changed just to stop the popular vote?
 It is a question the EU might have to answer shortly.

According to a poll I read in the Daily Telegraph ,  this summer's elections for the European Parliament are likely to increase the MEP's by a third who are either wanting to leave the European Union or wish to see massive change at the very least .

That's a third without our own anti EU MEP's of course .

Interesting times across Europe with the rise of the Right .

[Sprotyrover]

I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!

The elected representative from 27 countries?

That’s why I voted leave Syd,it’s bad enough in South Yorkshire with Oliver Coppard screwing us here in Doncaster with his Trams funding!

Yeah. Who wanted that €3bn that the Eurocrats were going to give to Yorkshire anyway, eh?

f**king hell fire, I seem to have slipped through the cracks into a looking glass world

Billy You send me £20 and I will send you a £5 note back!. Do you think you getting a good deal?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sproty.

You never get it do you?

Forget Britain. You're not British. You're from Doncaster. You are from one of the poorest areas in Europe.

This Government doesn't give a f**k about you and Doncaster. But the EU did. The EU has a very enlightened policy of spreading money from the wealthy to the poor.

You, being from Doncaster, were one of the big gainers from this.

And you just do not get it. Because you think you're British, and the Tory British Government will look after you.

It's actually really sad to see.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just to expand on that, because I know it will have tweaked a few noses.

I read a book recently on the economic history of the UK. The author quoted someone who had jokingly said the UK economy of basically Portugal with a big Singapore stuck on the south east corner.

That's a bit of a exaggeration. Singapore is much richer per head than the South East of England. The rest of the UK is a bit richer per head than Portugal.

But the point stands. We in the North are not wealthy. We have a GDP per head less than half that of London. It's about the same as Lisbon and Chemnitz (ever been to Chemnitz? I went 15 years ago. Christ it was grim, and I'm from Denaby. It's now caught up with Yorkshire.)

In terms of income relative to the cost of living, Yorkshire is about on a par with Poznan and Sofia. Way, WAY poorer than Prague and Bratislava and Bucharest and Zagreb and Warsaw.

And that is the point.

The UK as a whole is relatively wealthy compared to the EU average.

Yorkshire isn't.

And South Yorkshire is poorer than the Yorkshire average.

And under this Govt that has only got worse. Because, at heart, they don't give two f**ks about you Sproty.

Whereas the EU has long had a policy of trying to build up the weaker economic areas, by taking from the richer ones and providing strategic investment funds. For things like the Frenchgate transport interchange. The airport. The new link road off the M18. The rail port. Or, looking wider, the AMRC at Sheffield.

You voted to tell them to keep that money to themselves. Because you are British and as a Brit, you told yourself that you are a net contributor to the beggars of the EU.

That definitely served the purpose of the people who WERE net contributors. Like Rees Mogg and his mate Odey. Like Farage's mates.

But you're not them. You're in one of the poorer parts of Europe.

And you WERE a net beneficiary of EU money. Until you gave them the rods.

[Sprotyrover]

You are not getting it Billy

Just to expand on that, because I know it will have tweaked a few noses.

I read a book recently on the economic history of the UK. The author quoted someone who had jokingly said the UK economy of basically Portugal with a big Singapore stuck on the south east corner.

That's a bit of a exaggeration. Singapore is much richer per head than the South East of England. The rest of the UK is a bit richer per head than Portugal.

But the point stands. We in the North are not wealthy. We have a GDP per head less than half that of London. It's about the same as Lisbon and Chemnitz (ever been to Chemnitz? I went 15 years ago. Christ it was grim, and I'm from Denaby. It's now caught up with Yorkshire.)

In terms of income relative to the cost of living, Yorkshire is about on a par with Poznan and Sofia. Way, WAY poorer than Prague and Bratislava and Bucharest and Zagreb and Warsaw.

And that is the point.

The UK as a whole is relatively wealthy compared to the EU average.

Yorkshire isn't.

And South Yorkshire is poorer than the Yorkshire average.

And under this Govt that has only got worse. Because, at heart, they don't give two f**ks about you Sproty.

Whereas the EU has long had a policy of trying to build up the weaker economic areas, by taking from the richer ones and providing strategic investment funds. For things like the Frenchgate transport interchange. The airport. The new link road off the M18. The rail port. Or, looking wider, the AMRC at Sheffield.

You voted to tell them to keep that money to themselves. Because you are British and as a Brit, you told yourself that you are a net contributor to the beggars of the EU.

That definitely served the purpose of the people who WERE net contributors. Like Rees Mogg and his mate Odey. Like Farage's mates.

But you're not them. You're in one of the poorer parts of Europe.

And you WERE a net beneficiary of EU money. Until you gave them the rods.

I am British and I understand that If we give the EU £13billion and they return £3 Billion we are £10 Billion out of pocket! What part of that don’t you understand?
Also why is your mate Copout throwing 113 £ million of Doncaster’s money on The Sheffield Trams System. And I assume that Doncaster is one of the wealthiest parts of the UK as our Mayor Nana Ros is quite happy to donate £6.5 million of our annual borough budget to prop up the Tram system,so don’t Rabbit on about Doncaster being deprived it only is when it Suits Labour Party scrounging.

[Sprotyrover]

Most of the EU members are paid more by the EU than they contribute. This was financed mainly by the Big Three net contributors France, Germany and the UK. They lost 25% of their income with the loss of the UK and have been unable to make commensurate cuts in spending.
London is the world's 2nd most important financial centre, fintech centre and services provider. The EU has now lost these.
The UK was a leading partner in numerous science and technology EU-wide projects. The EU now has to curtail these
The UK was the leader of the liberal free-market anti-federalisation section of the EU and put the brakes on the worst excesses of the EU government. Those members of a like-mind such as the Netherlands and the Baltic countries, have lost their biggest champion and protector
The UK was the destination of 12% of exports of the EU as a whole but for certain counties, such as Ireland, Netherlands, etc their exports were more than double that and for certain products very much higher - for instance over one third of Prosecco production was exported to the UK and nearly 100% of Ireland's mushroom production was exported to the UK. These markets have considerably shrunk and will soon lose out further from trade deal countries like Australia and New Zealand.

[drfchound]

Most of the EU members are paid more by the EU than they contribute. This was financed mainly by the Big Three net contributors France, Germany and the UK. They lost 25% of their income with the loss of the UK and have been unable to make commensurate cuts in spending.
London is the world's 2nd most important financial centre, fintech centre and services provider. The EU has now lost these.
The UK was a leading partner in numerous science and technology EU-wide projects. The EU now has to curtail these
The UK was the leader of the liberal free-market anti-federalisation section of the EU and put the brakes on the worst excesses of the EU government. Those members of a like-mind such as the Netherlands and the Baltic countries, have lost their biggest champion and protector
The UK was the destination of 12% of exports of the EU as a whole but for certain counties, such as Ireland, Netherlands, etc their exports were more than double that and for certain products very much higher - for instance over one third of Prosecco production was exported to the UK and nearly 100% of Ireland's mushroom production was exported to the UK. These markets have considerably shrunk and will soon lose out further from trade deal countries like Australia and New Zealand.

That is a fairly comprehensive list sproty.
I have no doubt that it will be challenged by one or two posters but even if only part of it is PROVEN to be wrong then it still leaves plenty of nett loss for the EU.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sproty.

I thought I'd made it bleeding obvious, but apparently not.

Yes (if you are considering the bare transactions and ignoring the benefits to the wider economy) the UK paid more to the EU than it received.

But this is the point.

Yorkshire received more than it contributed. Because Yorkshire is one of the poorer parts of Europe.

What happens now is that the UK as a whole (again, ignoring the wider benefits) is better off because it has divested itself of the net contribution it used to make.

BUT. Here's the key. Yorkshire is only better off if the UK Govt makes up the net positive income that Yorkshire used to receive from the EU. Johnson promised that would happen. Have a guess what's happened in reality. Go on. Have a guess.

[SydneyRover]

''Brexit is the best thing that ever happened to Britain''

''Doncaster is one of the most impoverished places in England, where a third of children are living in poverty and 41% of residents fall into the bottom 20% of incomes nationwide. Women in Doncaster have the third-worst healthy life expectancy in the country, with an average of 24 years spent living with ill health (for men this figure is 21 years)''

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/nov/11/babies-battle-ropes-and-billy-joel-how-doncaster-rovers-reach-out

[ncRover]

Time is money and there was a hell of a lot of time spent on trying to get brexit to work.

Can you please expand on “worst excesses of EU government”. Because apart from immigration (didn’t make a difference) all I ever saw at the time was menial things surrounding fishing, health and safety laws and the metric system being parroted by the likes of The Express etc.

Did these “worst excesses” outweigh the cumulative benefits of having access to such easy liberal free trade as you say?

The UK government still has the power to be authoritarian if it pleases, without being in the EU. So I don’t I don’t understand the liberty angle.

Time was also money for businesses trading with the EU who had to devise and adhere to completely new framework. On top of the uncertainty in the markets that will have hit them financially.

If everyone knew net immigration was going to be unchanged and even increased in the years after Brexit, the vote would have been an absolute Remain whitewash. It’s going to have to be a hell of an argument to say otherwise.

Also, economies are more complex than Money in / money out. We all benefit if the poorer members of the trade agreement we’re in get richer.

[BillyStubbsTears]

"Also, economies are more complex than Money in / money out. We all benefit if the poorer members of the trade agreement we’re in get richer."

This. This x1000.

That's the key benefit of the EU which was totally lost when the Little Englanders took over the debate in 2016.

They made it an argument based on simple accounting transactions (and then lied about that - £350m/week...).

The issue about all of us being richer when our nearest trading partners are richer got totally lost. That was the really big problem with the style and substance of the referendum debate. It became a Mercantilism argument: If someone else is winning, I must be losing.

That sort of playground nonsense was swept out of economics nearly 200 years ago. But it sounds good to people who don't think deeply about it. Hence some folk in here loving it when the EU has problems, because they think if they are losing, we must be winning.

[wilts rover]

Looking forward to the Brexiteers pointing out that anyone still talking about Brexit 7 years after the referendum is a 'Moaner' and needs to get over it.

Must be busy...

[drfchound]

What about remainers who say the same thing wilts.
Is that more acceptable.

[Sprotyrover]

"Also, economies are more complex than Money in / money out. We all benefit if the poorer members of the trade agreement we’re in get richer."

This. This x1000.

That's the key benefit of the EU which was totally lost when the Little Englanders took over the debate in 2016.

They made it an argument based on simple accounting transactions (and then lied about that - £350m/week...).

The issue about all of us being richer when our nearest trading partners are richer got totally lost. That was the really big problem with the style and substance of the referendum debate. It became a Mercantilism argument: If someone else is winning, I must be losing.

That sort of playground nonsense was swept out of economics nearly 200 years ago. But it sounds good to people who don't think deeply about it. Hence some folk in here loving it when the EU has problems, because they think if they are losing, we must be winning.

You are talking a load of rubbish as usual, the next Government will probably be a Labour Government and we will see if there is any financial benefit for the destitute North, once all of those impoverished London Boroughs overseen by Khan have had their slice of the cake.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And with that Sproty, I'm out. Pointless really.

[wilts rover]

Trade with the EU has actually grown as a % of the UK's total trade since Brexit - in contradiction as to what Remainers predicted.

Not because it has grown particularly, it hasn't, but because the UK's trade with the rest of the world has stagnated - in contradiction as to what Brexiteers promised.

So the UK is now even more dependant on the EU than it was when it was a member of the EU - in contradiction as to what Brexiteers promised!!

Well done sproty. You must be so proud:

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/brexiteer-boasts-global-britain-mirage-uk-eu-trade-matters-2849638

[scawsby steve]

Looking forward to the Brexiteers pointing out that anyone still talking about Brexit 7 years after the referendum is a 'Moaner' and needs to get over it.

Must be busy...

No, Wilts, it was your glorious leader, Keith, who said that. "It's time for everyone to move on from Brexit".

You should listen to him.

[Glyn_Wigley]

  Latest report is that some countries want to strip Hungary of their vote because they are scared of Oban and the rise of the right in other countries getting together to upset the nice little earner others have built for themselves.
  Is that a new way of democracy, if it doesn't agree with you get rid of it.
  Now I don't like, and have no respect for the bloke, or his politics, but, if the voting system allows the right whether you like it or not to win elections, in say France, Hungary, Italy, and the Netherlands, something that was hard to imagine just a few years ago, should the system really be changed just to stop the popular vote?
 It is a question the EU might have to answer shortly.

Sounds like all the 'latest reports' that the Mail printed all the time that never came true.

[wilts rover]

What about remainers who say the same thing wilts.
Is that more acceptable.

What about them hound? Do you think that is more acceptable?

Shall we see if you have ever criticised Remainers for saying anything? And Brexiteers for the same thing? For balance.

[drfchound]

What about remainers who say the same thing wilts.
Is that more acceptable.

What about them hound? Do you think that is more acceptable?

Shall we see if you have ever criticised Remainers for saying anything? And Brexiteers for the same thing? For balance.

Wilts, I never thought you would get like Syd and answer a question with a question.
However, do what you have to do.

[wilts rover]

Looking forward to the Brexiteers pointing out that anyone still talking about Brexit 7 years after the referendum is a 'Moaner' and needs to get over it.

Must be busy...

No, Wilts, it was your glorious leader, Keith, who said that. "It's time for everyone to move on from Brexit".

You should listen to him.

My glorious leader? Where have I said I support him? You are as accurate as most Johnson followers.