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The FA are quick to complain about other countries against our players. We need to get our shop in order first. To many clubs reporting racist comments. The idiots that caused mayhem at the euro final. Glad the national team have to play behind closed doors. These are still big issues in this country. We have no rights to criticise other countries when we are a problem. Again it%u2019s a minority. But they spoil it.Love the game, love each other.
Football violence seems to be on the up again for some reason.
You can have all the prep in the world for big events at Wembley but you cannot plan nor legislate for corrupt stewards who took back handlers to let anyone in. Then there is the disabled access which is a free for all by all accounts . Those that got in that day were part of a social media group which had organised a Wembley jib. Take the keepmoat for example. The fire doors which we exit the stadium from after every game are easy to open. They have to be for fire regs. If a few thousand rovers turned up to a big game without tickets for example, you would only need a couple inside to overpower stewards to open the fire doors and hey presto. Not that it would happen though thankfully . This is what the authorities are really up against at Wembley but on a much bigger scale. What has to happen on big international games is there has to be an outer ring and inner security ring at Wembley. You should not be allowed onto Wembley way itself unless you have shown a ticket. This is the next step and it will happen.
There has been so much work done in the UK to curb violence in football, where were those experts, this incident needs to be investigated to find the failures and stop it recurring.Surely there is a strategy meeting before big matches where police look at the numbers, the numbers coming to the area and those that would be unable to gain entry etc.There was a failure in 'intelligence' to predict, prepare and act to prevent.Yes those involved need to be if possible identified and held to account but there were many failures that allowed it.If this was a demo or a protest the home office would be screaming to extend police powers and law changes to restrict the movement of people in some way.
Quote from: normal rules on October 18, 2021, 10:02:37 pmFootball violence seems to be on the up again for some reason.very much so. Near to me, Bolton v Wigan. They really did show themselves up. Every time I see or hear about things like that I start to think, Ban away fans.
Quote from: SydneyRover on October 19, 2021, 10:07:24 amThere has been so much work done in the UK to curb violence in football, where were those experts, this incident needs to be investigated to find the failures and stop it recurring.Surely there is a strategy meeting before big matches where police look at the numbers, the numbers coming to the area and those that would be unable to gain entry etc.There was a failure in 'intelligence' to predict, prepare and act to prevent.Yes those involved need to be if possible identified and held to account but there were many failures that allowed it.If this was a demo or a protest the home office would be screaming to extend police powers and law changes to restrict the movement of people in some way.Not sure about your logic here Sydney. On the one hand you claim that there's been a lot done to curb violence at football matches (mostly by introducing laws that don't impact on other sections of society) and then you come to the conclusion that if it was a different type of demo the Home Office would be demanding extra powers to restrict movement. For a section of society that is already over policed that seems to be a bit odd. Furthermore, this government is pushing through some new Police powers, commonly known as the Police, Crime, and sentencing bill, which effectively hands power to the Police to shut down any form of protest at will.For anybody else reading this thread you may want to understand the picture a little better than what you do. Firstly those causing issues on the day weren't England fans as such. They may have been football fans but most people that follow England already had their tickets, those without were chancers. I'm not suggesting the FA and Met Police are blameless, far from it, but it was a UEFA competition and as such the responsibility lies with the competition organiser. UEFA rent Wembley, and other major grounds, when they hold a competition in your country, and they have their own security teams who should coordinate the required responses. I happen to know the Head of Security for the England team and he told us that he was never approached about any of the games that had been held during this competition. The picture is a lot more complicated than it appears.
Quote from: normal rules on October 19, 2021, 10:44:51 amYou can have all the prep in the world for big events at Wembley but you cannot plan nor legislate for corrupt stewards who took back handlers to let anyone in. Then there is the disabled access which is a free for all by all accounts . Those that got in that day were part of a social media group which had organised a Wembley jib. Take the keepmoat for example. The fire doors which we exit the stadium from after every game are easy to open. They have to be for fire regs. If a few thousand rovers turned up to a big game without tickets for example, you would only need a couple inside to overpower stewards to open the fire doors and hey presto. Not that it would happen though thankfully . This is what the authorities are really up against at Wembley but on a much bigger scale. What has to happen on big international games is there has to be an outer ring and inner security ring at Wembley. You should not be allowed onto Wembley way itself unless you have shown a ticket. This is the next step and it will happen. You're very much correct that there has to be two cordons surrounding a stadium holding a major game, either in the Euro's or at a World Cup. For anybody that's been to competitions in other countries that would be very obvious.The problem for Wembley is that it is now situated in a very complicated and compact area with a mix of residential and commercial operations. Furthermore the steps leading up to the stadium cause further issues as you can't put a cordon on a staircase!That in turn means any cordon must also have to surround the adjacent properties meaning a loss of revenue and difficulties for residents accessing their homes. For that reason alone you'll never see a major competition held at Wembley again.
Quote from: normal rules on October 19, 2021, 10:44:51 amYou can have all the prep in the world for big events at Wembley but you cannot plan nor legislate for corrupt stewards who took back handlers to let anyone in. Then there is the disabled access which is a free for all by all accounts . Those that got in that day were part of a social media group which had organised a Wembley jib. Take the keepmoat for example. The fire doors which we exit the stadium from after every game are easy to open. They have to be for fire regs. If a few thousand rovers turned up to a big game without tickets for example, you would only need a couple inside to overpower stewards to open the fire doors and hey presto. Not that it would happen though thankfully . This is what the authorities are really up against at Wembley but on a much bigger scale. What has to happen on big international games is there has to be an outer ring and inner security ring at Wembley. You should not be allowed onto Wembley way itself unless you have shown a ticket. This is the next step and it will happen.I beg to differ if a guy on a third tier football forum knows all this why doesn't the police and all the others that need to know.
Quote from: DRCraig on October 19, 2021, 11:26:57 amQuote from: normal rules on October 18, 2021, 10:02:37 pmFootball violence seems to be on the up again for some reason.very much so. Near to me, Bolton v Wigan. They really did show themselves up. Every time I see or hear about things like that I start to think, Ban away fans.That's not the case. Banning orders and football arrests are at an all time low.
Sydney, there's a whole host of additional powers that the Police have at their disposal that are not there for members of the general public, most of that is detailed in the 'Football Spectators Act 1988' and the Football Offences Act 1991 and others added since then.Within football circles we have been dismissive of the actions of the Police with regard to the 'Insulate Britain' protestors. If that had have been football supporters it would have been over and done with within minutes and they'd all be on banning orders!!For specific powers cast your eye down this;https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/football-related-offences-and-football-banning-orders
Firstly those causing issues on the day weren't England fans as such. They may have been football fans but most people that follow England already had their tickets, those without were chancers.
Shame about the 10s of thousands that behave. Rotherham v Rovers mentioned above. First time in ages this passed by with no issues minus the 2 morons making fun of the Rotherham fan.
Quote from: silent majority on October 19, 2021, 11:40:10 amFirstly those causing issues on the day weren't England fans as such. They may have been football fans but most people that follow England already had their tickets, those without were chancers. Wait, so all those people in England shirts, celebrating England reaching a final and trying to get into an England game weren't England fans? Come on, you can't just label someone who hadn't been to an England game before as a 'chancer'. If you want to tackle the problems that happened on the day, you really need to recognise them as fans of the national team (whether they're the sort of fans you want or not), otherwise you're just disassociating yourself from a growing problem for pure ease.
Quote from: silent majority on October 19, 2021, 11:48:30 amQuote from: DRCraig on October 19, 2021, 11:26:57 amQuote from: normal rules on October 18, 2021, 10:02:37 pmFootball violence seems to be on the up again for some reason.very much so. Near to me, Bolton v Wigan. They really did show themselves up. Every time I see or hear about things like that I start to think, Ban away fans.That's not the case. Banning orders and football arrests are at an all time low.I would not like to trust banning orders and arrests as a yardstick for the current levels of football disorder we have in the uk. You only have to look at YouTube every weekend to see fights here there and everywhere. Games are not being policed like they used to.not enough cops and too many more important things to be looking at .
https://youtu.be/uagvCOpihqo