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Quote from: Nudga on December 01, 2021, 11:02:40 pmWhy do I need a vaccine if you've had yours?I have a robust immune system.I think we've been going round the houses on here enough to know that this is now a futile point of debate. If others cannot accept that the vaccine does not stop the spread, only perhaps reduces it slightly, then it is best to leave it at that. A vaccine that did this would give their argument much stronger traction and then they might have a valid point.
Why do I need a vaccine if you've had yours?I have a robust immune system.
Because masks are only one part. The question to ask is: how bad would they have had it WITHOUT masks?
You're asking me to get inside Johnson's head...
Germany is going to make vaccinations compulsory in the new year, also by 14 th December the only places that unvaccinated people will be allows to attend are. Hemists and food shops. That's 12 million people.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 02, 2021, 02:13:08 pmYou're asking me to get inside Johnson's head...Haha i guess that's a fair point. But my other questions such as high infection rates in Austria etc despite the mandating of FFP3 respirators etc?
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on December 02, 2021, 02:17:49 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 02, 2021, 02:13:08 pmYou're asking me to get inside Johnson's head...Haha i guess that's a fair point. But my other questions such as high infection rates in Austria etc despite the mandating of FFP3 respirators etc?Because it is a highly complex problem.There isn't a golden bullet solution. You need to stack the odds in your favour by doing as many mitigating things as required. Austria has a shockingly low vaccination rate so it is already handicapped. As I say, the question shouldn't be "Why haven't masks solved the problem?" It is "How much worse would the problem be without masks?"
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 02, 2021, 07:38:52 pmQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on December 02, 2021, 02:17:49 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 02, 2021, 02:13:08 pmYou're asking me to get inside Johnson's head...Haha i guess that's a fair point. But my other questions such as high infection rates in Austria etc despite the mandating of FFP3 respirators etc?Because it is a highly complex problem.There isn't a golden bullet solution. You need to stack the odds in your favour by doing as many mitigating things as required. Austria has a shockingly low vaccination rate so it is already handicapped. As I say, the question shouldn't be "Why haven't masks solved the problem?" It is "How much worse would the problem be without masks?"10% worse. Meaning it isn't worth doing forever for those small margins.
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on December 02, 2021, 02:17:49 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 02, 2021, 02:13:08 pmYou're asking me to get inside Johnson's head...Haha i guess that's a fair point. But my other questions such as high infection rates in Austria etc despite the mandating of FFP3 respirators etc?Because it is a highly complex problem.There isn't a golden bullet solution. You need to stack the odds in your favour by doing as many mitigating things as required. Austria has a shockingly low vaccination rate so it is already handicapped. As I say, the question shouldn't be "Why haven't masks solved the problem?" It is "How much worse would the problem be without masks?"
Yes, we might. In which case we've lost nothing more than a bit of care for a few weeks.It's about balancing risk, not closing your eyes and hoping for the best.
CDH notes Austria as having a high incidence/standard of maskwearing but still suffering high infection rates.Austria's problem is that vaccination take-up has been low. Hence the surge in infections which has resulted in a lockdown and, from February, mandatory vaccination.This is where ignorance of the problem leads. Namely, extreme measures like lockdowns - which ***k up the economy and peoples mental health - and having to compel people by law to get jabbed.Is wearing a bit of cloth across your mouth in a supermarket really such a hardship?
I'll keep saying it till it sinks in.When you are dealing with exponential increase, sma changes make massive effects on the outcome.If cases double once a week, after ten weeks they have gone up 1000x.If you can make two changes to behaviour that each reduce transmissibility by just 10%, after ten weeks you have cut that increase by 90%. After 20 weeks, you've cut the increase by 99%.Little things. Just being careful. And responsible. Instead of screaming ignorant nonsense as an excuse for being irresponsible and killing people.
Figures coming out of South Africa are very worrying.Positive test results per day have gone up 8 fold in 9 days. That implies Omicron has a higher R number than the R0 of the original strain! That is, even with measures in place, it spreads faster than the original strain did when we were caught with our pants down.Questions now are:1) How severe is it?2) How effective are existing vaccines and pre-infection resistance against it?We'll have a good idea about 1 next week because people in SA will start dying of Omicron this week. If the deaths start to rise at a similar rate then God help countries with low vaccination rates.2 depends on how quickly it spreads in well vaccinated countries. It'll take another couple of weeks before we start to see that. But if our daily numbers start to increase anything like those in SA, we have a major problem.