Ched Evans

[Wild Rover]

In any profession , apart from football it seems, a convicted man or woman can resume their career in whatever field they are good at. Football should be no different. There are people who are armed robbers, Drink drivers, even footballers who have killed being re integrated into teams.

[GazLaz]

He will go back to the Blades I'm sure of it.

[Wild Rover]

Seems they have been paying his 20K a week salary throughout, so I am sure they don't intend throwing that money away.

[Donny Viking]

In any profession , apart from football it seems, a convicted man or woman can resume their career in whatever field they are good at. Football should be no different. There are people who are armed robbers, Drink drivers, even footballers who have killed being re integrated into teams.

If Evans was a teacher, police officer, Doctor, etc he would not be allowed to resume his career.  His chosen career, includes being a role model to kids, and his status as a professional footballer brings certain opportunities with vulnerable people of society.  No second chances for me! - it might even encourage one or two others to behave if the expected outcome is the loss of your footballing career.  Nobody is saying he hasn't served his time and shouldn't be allowed to get on with his life, but there are ongoing consequences to his actions and he should live with it and find something else to do.

[DonnyNoel]

In any profession , apart from football it seems, a convicted man or woman can resume their career in whatever field they are good at. Football should be no different. There are people who are armed robbers, Drink drivers, even footballers who have killed being re integrated into teams.

If Evans was a teacher, police officer, Doctor, etc he would not be allowed to resume his career.  His chosen career, includes being a role model to kids, and his status as a professional footballer brings certain opportunities with vulnerable people of society.  No second chances for me! - it might even encourage one or two others to behave if the expected outcome is the loss of your footballing career.  Nobody is saying he hasn't served his time and shouldn't be allowed to get on with his life, but there are ongoing consequences to his actions and he should live with it and find something else to do.

Haven't really made my mind up on the big picture but I take issue with the footballers = role models perspective. They completely are not role models in my eyes, thats not to criticise them all in one fell swoop, just that there are far more worthy of that title that certainly I as a parent steer my child towards.

[Copps is Magic]

The idea that footballers per se are role models just aint true. Certain footballers become role models (Messi, Beckham etc.) through how they act and conduct themselves. Young kids today are intelligent enough to realise this. The difference is teachers, doctors, police officers etc. have a public responsibility inherent to what they do.

[RJHeader]

In any profession , apart from football it seems, a convicted man or woman can resume their career in whatever field they are good at. Football should be no different. There are people who are armed robbers, Drink drivers, even footballers who have killed being re integrated into teams.

If Evans was a teacher, police officer, Doctor, etc he would not be allowed to resume his career.  His chosen career, includes being a role model to kids, and his status as a professional footballer brings certain opportunities with vulnerable people of society.  No second chances for me! - it might even encourage one or two others to behave if the expected outcome is the loss of your footballing career.  Nobody is saying he hasn't served his time and shouldn't be allowed to get on with his life, but there are ongoing consequences to his actions and he should live with it and find something else to do.

People who become teachers want to help kids. Doctors want to help cure people. Etc etc.

People who become footballers want to play football, not become role models, not help people. But to play football. Cant use that as a comparison IMO

[TheFunk]

How will he pass a CRB check. I'm assuming footballers have to, due to their work involving visiting schools, hospitals etc.

[Wild Rover]

Which catergory does he fall into then.

European federal law requires a CRB check for anyone working with children or adults who may be vulnerable to fraud and attack, such as the severely disabled. Included under the act are educators, healthcare providers, counselors and daycare workers.

[The Red Baron]

Seems they have been paying his 20K a week salary throughout, so I am sure they don't intend throwing that money away.

Where have you got that from, WR? I'm not sure that would be legal but in any case Evans was out of contract at the time that he was jailed, so I'd be very surprised if they continued to pay his wages once his contract expired. They do retain his registration, though.

[The Red Baron]

In any profession , apart from football it seems, a convicted man or woman can resume their career in whatever field they are good at. Football should be no different. There are people who are armed robbers, Drink drivers, even footballers who have killed being re integrated into teams.

If Evans was a teacher, police officer, Doctor, etc he would not be allowed to resume his career.  His chosen career, includes being a role model to kids, and his status as a professional footballer brings certain opportunities with vulnerable people of society.  No second chances for me! - it might even encourage one or two others to behave if the expected outcome is the loss of your footballing career.  Nobody is saying he hasn't served his time and shouldn't be allowed to get on with his life, but there are ongoing consequences to his actions and he should live with it and find something else to do.

I can see both sides of this argument, but I'm interested to know something. Should Evans be allowed to play football at any level? Would you be OK with him taking a job working in a supermarket (just to give an example) and playing semi-pro? And if he proved to be outstanding at that level then would you allow him to go back into the full-time game?

[Wild Rover]

Seems they have been paying his 20K a week salary throughout, so I am sure they don't intend throwing that money away.

Where have you got that from, WR? I'm not sure that would be legal but in any case Evans was out of contract at the time that he was jailed, so I'd be very surprised if they continued to pay his wages once his contract expired. They do retain his registration, though.

Heard it on Talksport at 7am this morning. Just after announcement he had left prison.

[Donny Viking]

Wikipedia - 'A role model is a person whose behavior, example, or success is or can be emulated by others, especially by younger people'.

All footballers, especially strikers have the potential to become 'role models' - this is not defined by the masses - it only takes one person to view that individual as somebody they would like to emulate and they become a role model.  Scenario - Evans scores hat trick & winning play off finals - little Jonny says to Dad can I have Evans name on my shirt  - I want to be like him when I get older and score at Wembley (alright unlikely scenario if he goes back to blades).   What does Dad say, sorry Jonny, Evans has been a naught boy and I'll explain it to you in a few years. Later that month Evans in a night club with a naive young female wanting to be the next WAG.....don't need to say more do I.  Footballers come with a power and status, whether they chose it or not they have responsibilities that others in society don't carry, it goes with the job, alongside all the benefits.  I've no sympathy for the bloke.  There are plenty of opportunities in life for him to start again, but not with the privileges he was once so fortunate to have.

[DonnyNoel]

Wikipedia - 'A role model is a person whose behavior, example, or success is or can be emulated by others, especially by younger people'.

 

Ignoring the credibility of wikipedia, so basically -  Anyone can be a role model? Good, no need to look at footballers then. Just needs a bit of parental guidance.

[Wild Rover]

Potential......emulate.....Role models.  You said it all therein. The "Kids" will need the potential to emulate. 99% wont have. 99.9% wont have even heard of "Ched Evans". The 0.1% who have heard of him and have the potential to emulate will only do so for a very limited period of time, probably less than 2 years ( generally a contract period ).

[German Rover]

Seems they have been paying his 20K a week salary throughout, so I am sure they don't intend throwing that money away.

Where have you got that from, WR? I'm not sure that would be legal but in any case Evans was out of contract at the time that he was jailed, so I'd be very surprised if they continued to pay his wages once his contract expired. They do retain his registration, though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18264057

He was released by United in 2012.  nothing like a commercial radio station trying to whip up some controversy to increase their listeners!

[Donny Viking]

Footballers are much more likely to be role models than virtually any other carrier I can think of for young boys.  You ask most of my sons mates what they want to be when they grow up and they will say 'be a footballer'.  Of course they want to emulate Messi, Bale, Sterling etc. but on a local level their hero will also be at the local club they go and watch.  Fortunately there are some good characters out there as well, my lad adores king Billy, he walked him when he was club mascot, he got a signed shirt from the training ground and has a signed picture on his wall.  He wants to score goals and be the crowd hero just like Billy used to be.  I don't suspect many kids other than those at Donny would share the same admiration of Billy, but that's the point you don't have to be a superstar to be a role model.  Its irrelevant whether my lads go the ability to be a pro or not, he will still look to Billy's behavior and look to copy it - whether playing with mates at the park, school team or where ever he ends up. 

[DonnyNoel]

Footballers are much more likely to be role models than virtually any other carrier I can think of for young boys.  You ask most of my sons mates what they want to be when they grow up and they will say 'be a footballer'.  Of course they want to emulate Messi, Bale, Sterling etc. but on a local level their hero will also be at the local club they go and watch.  Fortunately there are some good characters out there as well, my lad adores king Billy, he walked him when he was club mascot, he got a signed shirt from the training ground and has a signed picture on his wall.  He wants to score goals and be the crowd hero just like Billy used to be.  I don't suspect many kids other than those at Donny would share the same admiration of Billy, but that's the point you don't have to be a superstar to be a role model.  Its irrelevant whether my lads go the ability to be a pro or not, he will still look to Billy's behavior and look to copy it - whether playing with mates at the park, school team or where ever he ends up. 

What they want to be doesn't follow who they will pick as a role model.

[Wild Rover]

Basically he IDOLISES . Not a Role model.

[IDM]

I would recommend folks research "spent" convictions and rehabilitation of offenders etc.  I haven't had the time to do that fully, but I would guess there would be several years before Evans' conviction is "spent", unless it gets quashed.

I also don't know for certain, but say, would a professional driver need to wait for a driving offence conviction to be "spent" before being accepted back in the profession?  He/she would still be continued to be punished for several years with increased insurance premiums etc.

So what is the comparison with football and rape?  I dunno, but perhaps not being accepted would be part of an extended punishment?  Not one that is sentenced but a stigma that goes hand in hand with the offence?

[Sod This For a Laugh]

Firstly, would I want a rapeist playing for our club. The answer would be a definite no.
Now the grey area. I have read the case file on this (online not official court file) and I think the conviction is ropey at best. He and McDonald were in the room with the girl and have both stated she said yes. The night porter went to the room shortly after and could hear them having sex but nothing to suggest forced. There were no complaints from adjoining rooms as to struggles or shouts for help. They convicted Evans because she was not of sound mind due to drink, however found McDonald not guilty with the same girl.
Evans shows no remorse for the event, but how can he when he believes he is innocent and still fighting to clear his name.
Would I have Ched Evans if his appeal was successful then definitely yes.

[Wild Rover]

I would recommend folks research "spent" convictions and rehabilitation of offenders etc.  I haven't had the time to do that fully, but I would guess there would be several years before Evans' conviction is "spent", unless it gets quashed.

I also don't know for certain, but say, would a professional driver need to wait for a driving offence conviction to be "spent" before being accepted back in the profession?  He/she would still be continued to be punished for several years with increased insurance premiums etc.

So what is the comparison with football and rape?  I dunno, but perhaps not being accepted would be part of an extended punishment?  Not one that is sentenced but a stigma that goes hand in hand with the offence?

A spent conviction is a conviction which, under the terms of Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, can be effectively ignored after a specified amount of time. The amount of time for rehabilitation depends on the sentence imposed, not on the offence. The more serious the conviction, the longer the period of rehabilitation. For example, if you have received a prison sentence of more than four years, the conviction will never become spent,

[The Red Baron]

Personally I'm glad it's not Doncaster Rovers decision to make, and I don't envy Sheffield United's position.

It isn't ours at the moment, but it could be if the Blunts decide not to take him back.

[IDM]

Personally I'm glad it's not Doncaster Rovers decision to make, and I don't envy Sheffield United's position.

It isn't ours at the moment, but it could be if the Blunts decide not to take him back.

Why us though?  There are plenty of other clubs around...

[Donny Viking]

Basically he IDOLISES . Not a Role model.

I disagree - When he plays footie he pretends to be his favorite player.  Kids young and older mimic the players they watch, on the field it could be celebrations, diving, spitting, arguing with the ref. etc.  Players off field antics including attitude and character could have an influence on those that look up to them. After playing football my lad will as ask for pizza or pasta because that's what he has heard pros eat after football matches, its also why half his mates turn up to training with bottles of lucazade, that's what they have seen pros drinking...

Quote from BBC - Clegg, MP for Sheffield Hallam, said: "When you take a footballer on, you are not taking just a footballer these days, you are also taking on a role model."

[Wild Rover]

That's no different than ANY kid, in ANY era. 50 years ago I was Pele, or GB or whoever. Never saw them as role models, yes I idolised them, in same way as I did Alick Jeffrey, Tony Coleman, Geoff Hurst, Bobby Moore.

[RobSlingDog]

I personally think he should play, All these parents going What do i tell me kids when he's getting booed? Well you don't have too tell them what hes done simple as. I don't understand why this is such a big story Lee Hughes no one made a big deal out of that and that keeper at Plymouth he killed someone and not a bean was said about him? End of the day if he was a Plumber he'd walk straight back into a job, so if he walked into your house to fit your new kitchen would you kick him out? Football is his 'trade' as such not his fault he's good at it and makes a living out of it and that people look at him as a role model. If he got offered to us id sign him up straight away, he's made a mistake in life he's served his time for that mistake simple as. I work in a Prison and alot of it is to make sure these lads don't go out and re offend again and make sure they get a job and get there head down surely thats all he's doing right?

[The Red Baron]

Personally I'm glad it's not Doncaster Rovers decision to make, and I don't envy Sheffield United's position.

It isn't ours at the moment, but it could be if the Blunts decide not to take him back.

Why us though?  There are plenty of other clubs around...

Indeed there are, but if the Blades decide they don't want him, what sort of clubs would you start hawking him around if you were his agent? League One clubs of similar standing to the Blades, probably.

[Dutch Uncle]

The curious thing about this case RobSlingDog is that IMHO he is actually more likely to re-offend if he does go back into Professional Football than not. (BTW I would suggest the chances of re-offending are small either way).

For me rape in general is as serious as murder (and some rapes more serious than some murders). I could accept the idea of football itself uniting to prevent a rapist playing - this would be less fraught than e.g. changing a law to include Football alongside other professions where it is clear a convicted rapist should never be allowed.

However it is a difficult one for me for the reason that something doesn't seem quite right about the conviction. Clearly we all don't know for sure, and we should respect the law until proven otherwise, but I recently read a very sad tale about one of the 4 wrongly convicted for the Guildford bombings and how it destroyed his life.

IMHO the question of remorse is relevant. While Richard Caborn has suggested if Evans shows remorse he should be allowed back into football, I can still understand if he is actually innocent that he would not wish to express remorse for fear of prejudicing any appeal. However if he was innocent of rape it still seems to me that his behaviour that night is still reprehensible (of course to a lesser degree) and still ill-befitting of a role model. Maybe he could find some statement of remorse at his general behaviour.

I have no answer or definite opinion - the slight doubt makes it very difficult for me - should we take that doubt into account or not?       

 

[BRMC_rover]

I think he owes Sheffield United a return on the support they offered him throughout. Either way, football has no morals, and if he can score 20 goals a season, he will find a club and an attractive salary to go with it. He wont enjoy playing though. Every time the ball goes near him he'l have abuse coming from all angles.