Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: hamiltonrover on April 20, 2018, 07:31:48 pm
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Just looking at the league table and realised we have lost fewer games than Rotherham and Charlton who sit 4th and 5th respectively. Clearly we have drawn too many games this season, however, do you thing we have a strong enough base for at least the play offs next season, is it that easy to turn draws into wins? Or do we need to strengthen in many areas?
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Just looking at the league table and realised we have lost fewer games than Rotherham and Charlton who sit 4th and 5th respectively. Clearly we have drawn too many games this season, however, do you thing we have a strong enough base for at least the play offs next season, is it that easy to turn draws into wins? Or do we need to strengthen in many areas?
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I think we need to strengthen in 5 areas; right back, left back, centre back, midfield, and striker.
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Just looking at the league table and realised we have lost fewer games than Rotherham and Charlton who sit 4th and 5th respectively. Clearly we have drawn too many games this season, however, do you thing we have a strong enough base for at least the play offs next season, is it that easy to turn draws into wins? Or do we need to strengthen in many areas?
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I think we need to strengthen in 5 areas; right back, left back, centre back, midfield, and striker.
So pretty much everywhere!! I think we need cover at both full backs, Mason at right and Andrew at left would be my choice, I think CB is ok if Frenchy stays, midfield needs some pace.
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I think we’ve proven In the second half of the season that we’re not far off at all from being a play off contender next season.
I think our strongest 11 is very good for this level
Mason and Blair right back
Andrew and Rowe left back
Wright, Butler, Baudry, Anderson? Centre halves
Houghton? McCullough, copps, Rowe, whiteman
Marquis, kiwomya, may, beestin.
I’d say the defence is ok and we need a midfielder and a striker, a nasty midfielder and a striker to compliment marquis
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Would not disagree with much of that, aside from Blair as a right back which is clearly not credible at upper League One level and aside from Marquis, the strike force.
The other three have scored a total of 20 goals in 138 games, mostly not in League One - or as comparison, an average of less than 7 goals between them on a 46 game season. Not enough.
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Blair -no
Houghton no
Kiwomya no
May no
Beestin no
We’ll Stay League 1 for a long time with this lot .
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A striker, a ball winning midfielder, a proper full back and Anderson signed on and we will be somewhere near. I think Beestin will come good
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We certainly need goals from somewhere, other than Marquis and we simply don't possess that player right now. My absolute priorities are right and left midfield and a striker.
I don't see any one of May, Beestin, Kiwomya or Mandeville (if he is still here next season) fulfilling the support striker role. Beestin is more of a creator, Kiwomya (if he has fully recovered from his illness) offers us pace but I think more from the wide areas, May offers us effort and not much more and Mandeville is not good enough physically (or mentally) yet. We desperately need a good solid partner for our main man next season or he could be looking for another challenge elsewhere.
So for me 4 definates required - cb, rm, lm and striker.
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Blair -no
Houghton no
Kiwomya no
May no
Beestin no
We’ll Stay League 1 for a long time with this lot .
Don’t be silly
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Would not disagree with much of that, aside from Blair as a right back which is clearly not credible at upper League One level and aside from Marquis, the strike force.
The other three have scored a total of 20 goals in 138 games, mostly not in League One - or as comparison, an average of less than 7 goals between them on a 46 game season. Not enough.
Yes we need another striker,
Also can’t really judge kiwomya this season,
regarding Blair I think he’s decent enough cover for mason! And also he’s a good option from the bench
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Logically, we are 36 points off being top of the table. That's not far from a point a game we need to improve.
That's about how far off we are.
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Logically, we are 36 points off being top of the table. That's not far from a point a game we need to improve.
That's about how far off we are.
"Logically" - taking one perspective.
Assuming we get another 6 points from remaining games, ending at say 60 points, we're about 20 points off a comfortable play off place. That's 0.43 points per game, or turning 4 losses and 4 draws into wins. And then just the small matter of winning a few games in the play offs.
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Just looking at the league table and realised we have lost fewer games than Rotherham and Charlton who sit 4th and 5th respectively. Clearly we have drawn too many games this season, however, do you thing we have a strong enough base for at least the play offs next season, is it that easy to turn draws into wins? Or do we need to strengthen in many areas?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think we need to strengthen in 5 areas; right back, left back, centre back, midfield, and striker.
So pretty much everywhere!! I think we need cover at both full backs, Mason at right and Andrew at left would be my choice, I think CB is ok if Frenchy stays, midfield needs some pace.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hamilton, having just 3 centre backs this season cost us big time when they all got injured, and Fergie said that he wants 2 players for each position; seeing as every modern team has 2 centre backs, that would obviously mean increasing it to 4. As I've said in other posts, my 4 would be Baudry, Butler, Wright, and Anderson.
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I think we’ve proven In the second half of the season that we’re not far off at all from being a play off contender next season.
I think our strongest 11 is very good for this level
Mason and Blair right back
Andrew and Rowe left back
Wright, Butler, Baudry, Anderson? Centre halves
Houghton? McCullough, copps, Rowe, whiteman
Marquis, kiwomya, may, beestin.
I’d say the defence is ok and we need a midfielder and a striker, a nasty midfielder and a striker to compliment marquis
Dickos, I've always rated your football knowledge, which is why I'm so perplexed at those suggestions; Blair at right back and Rowe at left back? really?
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Steve,
Only as cover, if say mason or Andrew got a one match ban or a niggling injury I’d be happy for Blair or Rowe to cover for a game or two.
But if they got a long term injury then I agree we’d need a replacement.
I’m not sure we have the budget to have 4 full backs who are all top end league one standard.
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Definitely need a striker with the wages Williams will free up. Marquis has been crying out for an experienced league one strike partner all season especially when he was off form. Ivan Toney would be a good fit.
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Blair -no
Houghton no
Kiwomya no
May no
Beestin no
We’ll Stay League 1 for a long time with this lot .
Houghton 22, Kiwomya 21, Beestin 20.
Their regular starts may make it look like they're seasoned pros but really they're still babies aren't they. To me, if players don't start maturing their game until they're 24/25 then you start considering moving them on. But if you've got talented players in your grasp you don't let them slip at that age. Each one of them is talented in their own way and the potential to develop is there. Obviously they need to actually develop.
The alternative is a high turnover of players every season which is not ideal for many reasons.
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Next season will see us have a real push for the play offs imo. Were not far off at all. Just need to add some goals from other area's. With the wages from evina ,Williams and who ever else gets released should free up a good chunk to get some good league one players.
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Just looking at the league table and realised we have lost fewer games than Rotherham and Charlton who sit 4th and 5th respectively. Clearly we have drawn too many games this season, however, do you thing we have a strong enough base for at least the play offs next season, is it that easy to turn draws into wins? Or do we need to strengthen in many areas?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think we need to strengthen in 5 areas; right back, left back, centre back, midfield, and striker.
So pretty much everywhere!! I think we need cover at both full backs, Mason at right and Andrew at left would be my choice, I think CB is ok if Frenchy stays, midfield needs some pace.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hamilton, having just 3 centre backs this season cost us big time when they all got injured, and Fergie said that he wants 2 players for each position; seeing as every modern team has 2 centre backs, that would obviously mean increasing it to 4. As I've said in other posts, my 4 would be Baudry, Butler, Wright, and Anderson.
We also have McCullough who was brought to the club as a centre back who could cover. I am not overly convinced on Anderson just yet, however Burnley must see something in him, as he has been with them for a number of years.
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Heard a rumour we’re looking at Rory deacon at Dundee , never seen himself but supposed to be a fast attacking midfielder by all accounts
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That should be in rumour mill
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We need a third left foot player who can play fullback if required, left wing back or left of diamond.
Andrew, Rowe, another. (3 for 2 places)
We need a right footed player who can play right of diamond cover right back and most important can drive forward and has goals in his game.
Mason, Another, Blair (3 for 2 places )
We need at least one centre-half that’s if Baudry stays, if not two.
(Butler, Wright, Baudry? Another)
Then we need a striker who can play up front on his own if required but can play with JM and has goals in his game.
For me those are minimum.
If we sign a more aggressive midfielder then we won’t sign Houghton.
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Steve,
Only as cover, if say mason or Andrew got a one match ban or a niggling injury I’d be happy for Blair or Rowe to cover for a game or two.
But if they got a long term injury then I agree we’d need a replacement.
I’m not sure we have the budget to have 4 full backs who are all top end league one standard.
Four top end players no but Andrew & Mason along with two more decent specialist full backs is a must for this summer. It's okay to say "if they get an injury we'd need a replacement" but that's exactly where we've come unstuck, you can't just sign players all year anymore. If we go into next season with only Blair and Rowe as full back cover we're asking for trouble again.
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I think we've done this one to death. Most people can agree where we're short. We could say we're not far off statistically but this team still has a soft centre that needs to be strengthened up both physically and mentally.
The standards need to be raised and we need someone with the same will to win as Marquis shows up front. Someone who demands performances from all around him and leads the midfield by example.
For me, filling that void is the most important signing of the summer. If we can nail that one, find a worthy partner for Marquis and resolve the right back problem (Stick with Mason assuming Andrew is fit and raring to go on the left) That's only three key positions. Anything after that to strengthen is a bonus.
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I think kiwomya will be much better next season, he’s had no pre season and he’s recovering from a serious illness.
Feel it’s very harsh indeed to just be dismissing him after only half a dozen games of his recovery
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Yes, too early to write off Kiwomya. Whether he proves to be a striker or wide man who knows but we need another reliable, proven goalscorer on the books. Williams, May (and others) will make way I think.
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If we can keep Andrew fit for a season and get a proper right back in I think we'd be in for a good season
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Would not disagree with much of that, aside from Blair as a right back which is clearly not credible at upper League One level and aside from Marquis, the strike force.
The other three have scored a total of 20 goals in 138 games, mostly not in League One - or as comparison, an average of less than 7 goals between them on a 46 game season. Not enough.
Or, to look at it another way, those are three inexperienced players who between them have scored 17 goals in their first 66 league starts.
If we had a player come up through the ranks who scored 17 in 66 starts in his first 2 or 3 seasons, we’d be chuffed to bits with him and think there was something to work on.
Perspective? John Marquis scored 20 in his first 67 league starts
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Andrew has been a big miss this season. I would’ve imagined top or close to top of the assists and probably would have weighed in with 4/5 goals.
We are not far away at all. I honestly think our best 11 this season would’ve been good enough to challenge for top 6.
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Would not disagree with much of that, aside from Blair as a right back which is clearly not credible at upper League One level and aside from Marquis, the strike force.
The other three have scored a total of 20 goals in 138 games, mostly not in League One - or as comparison, an average of less than 7 goals between them on a 46 game season. Not enough.
Or, to look at it another way, those are three inexperienced players who between them have scored 17 goals in their first 66 league starts.
If we had a player come up through the ranks who scored 17 in 66 starts in his first 2 or 3 seasons, we’d be chuffed to bits with him and think there was something to work on.
Perspective? John Marquis scored 20 in his first 67 league starts
I am not putting the lads down, they are all young and work in progress.
The fact is though that between the three of them in their entire lives they have only scored a total of 7 goals in League One. To expect us to get promotion with that level of inexperience up front is a stretch.
The starts point is not a failsafe metric by any means. It doesn't account for players who started but were subbed, or players who started on bench and came on for a decent stint when all other players (especially defenders facing fresh legs) are knackered. Granted there is no real reliable metric, perhaps goals vs minutes?
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i understand the idea of the thread but the loans can make such a difference if you can get VIA YOUR "ALLEGED" CONTACTS one great example
Patrick Bamford
2012–2017 Chelsea 0 (0)
2012–2013 → Milton Keynes Dons (loan) 37 (18)
2014 → Derby County (loan) 21 (8)
2014–2015 → Middlesbrough (loan) 38 (17)
MK Dons got a right match winner there 18 goals in 37 games
I'd look at the loanees at Shrewsbury and Accrington if I was Fergie
The fact of life is if you don't improve the squad you get relegated we've seen it in the championship from play offs to relegation next season think Leeds did that
Fergie you can sit at home and watch these top premiership under 21 matches on tv so no excuses
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we are one player short that's all. We need a forward to compliment Marquis and share the goal scoring responsibilities.
May, Mandeville & Williams all should be replaced by a proven goalscorer - someone of the quality of Sharp or Doyle.
If we get that signing the rest of the team will suddenly look wonderful and we'll all forgive a lapse every now and again from Matty Blair.
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How far off are we? About half a bleeding century going on that pile of ba-baa.
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Just looking at the league table and realised we have lost fewer games than Rotherham and Charlton who sit 4th and 5th respectively. Clearly we have drawn too many games this season, however, do you thing we have a strong enough base for at least the play offs next season, is it that easy to turn draws into wins? Or do we need to strengthen in many areas?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think we need to strengthen in 5 areas; right back, left back, centre back, midfield, and striker.
So pretty much everywhere!! I think we need cover at both full backs, Mason at right and Andrew at left would be my choice, I think CB is ok if Frenchy stays, midfield needs some pace.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hamilton, having just 3 centre backs this season cost us big time when they all got injured, and Fergie said that he wants 2 players for each position; seeing as every modern team has 2 centre backs, that would obviously mean increasing it to 4. As I've said in other posts, my 4 would be Baudry, Butler, Wright, and Anderson.
We also have McCullough who was brought to the club as a centre back who could cover. I am not overly convinced on Anderson just yet, however Burnley must see something in him, as he has been with them for a number of years.
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Hamilton, you seem to have a blind spot where Anderson is concerned, despite the fact that loads of supporters and posters on this forum want him signed on next season. If you are not overly convinced on him, then you obviously didn't see him play against Fleetwood, after which he was selected as part of the EFL team of the week, along with several Championship players, and Rotherham, in which he completely bullied Michael Smith and all the big Rotherham players out of the game; if he hadn't been injured, I'm convinced we would have won that game.
As for McCullough being used as cover for centre back, you obviously can't remember his performances there 2 seasons ago.
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My main worry is that John Marquis has improved so much since joining us that there will be bids in the close season.
His work rate is phenomenal and he has had two seasons at different levels scoring regularly.
I wonder if sometimes he looks at some of our team and their effort and thinks he would be better off elsewhere.
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My main worry is that John Marquis has improved so much since joining us that there will be bids in the close season.
His work rate is phenomenal and he has had two seasons at different levels scoring regularly.
I wonder if sometimes he looks at some of our team and their effort and thinks he would be better off elsewhere.
I doubt Championship clubs would be interested. For all his virtues his touch and passing isn't good enough for that level.