Brexit Negotiations

[bobjimwilly]

The EU can't be blamed for clusterf**k. they are doing what the need to do to protect the member countries. the side-affect / optics is, of course, it's better to stay in, which us remainers have been saying all along.

[Bentley Bullet]

But we're NOT staying in! What we have to do now is make sure they don't get away with making an example of us as a deterrent for other countries who have the audacity to leave.

If Churchill was alive today he'd be turning in his grave.

[Glyn_Wigley]

And how exactly do you think they're trying to 'get away with' in an attempt to 'make an example of us' in a way that wasn't explained to everybody (before the referendum) would be a consequence of Brexit?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

In what way are they making an example of us?

They have said consistently that there are three major issues that have to be resolved.

Irish border
Us paying a for agreements that we have already entered into.
The rights of EU people who have settled in the UK.

If we sort those out, then we can start discussing what can be done to minimise the economic cost of us deliberately choosing to make it harder to do trade with half a billion of the richest people in the world who live on our doorstep.

It is this government which has decided to make that trade difficult. Not the EU. We have chosen to leave the Single Market and customs union. The consequence of that is that we will do less business with the EU and the business we do will be more expensive. The EU haven’t imposed that on us. Apparently it was the Will of the British people (although I don’t recall it being discussed much during the referendum campaign but never mind).

So I don’t understand this line about the EU making an example of us. Can you explain what you mean?

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, I said we have to make sure they don't get away with making an example of us as a deterrent for other countries who have the audacity to leave. Whether this is the case or not we still have to make sure it doesn't happen.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right. So how do we go about making sure they don’t do something they’ve not shown any sign of doing?

See, the way things are going at the moment, we are doing a brilliant job of demonstrating to the rest of the EU how stupid it is to leave the EU. We’ve chosen to make ourselves poorer over the next decade. The EU hadn’t decided to boot us out of the SM and CU. We’ve chosen to leave. The EU would be delighted for us to stay in the SM and CU.

[Bentley Bullet]

How do you know they haven't shown any sign of doing it?

[Glyn_Wigley]

How do you know they haven't shown any sign of doing it?

Because either the Government, their negotiating team and/or the secretive European Research Group via their mouthpiece Rees-Smugg would be instantly jumping up and down bleating about it.

[Bentley Bullet]

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-eu-document-shows-brexit-punishment-plan-11239487

[wilts rover]

Do you agree with Rees-Mogg that the document is a punishment plan BB?

If so what should it say so 'they don't get away with making an example of us as a deterrent'?

[Filo]

Do you agree with Rees-Mogg that the document is a punishment plan BB?

If so what should it say so 'they don't get away with making an example of us as a deterrent'?

It's not just Rees-Mogg is it?

Mr Umunna, a leading supporter of the pro-EU Open Britain campaign, said: "The EU's leaked position paper underlines one thing: all the proposed transition does is push the cliff-edge out a little bit further.

"Transition increasingly looks less like building a bridge and more like being made to walk the plank. We should not leave the EU until we know where we are going."

[Donnywolf]

1000(1) posts just on this one small Forum ! Emotive or what ?

[wilts rover]

Fascinating stuff with those statistics Billy and sort of following on from BB's point about other countries leaving the EU.

The next country threatened with leaving the EU is Poland, not through their own choice but by being expelled for their domestic policies. And yet the Poles are the country happiest at being in the EU!

So if BB is correct. The EU wish to stop a country, that voluntarily wants to leave because its people & parliament voted that way, from leaving yet, have warned they may expel the country whose people and parliament are happiest at being in it! Its a funny old world.

And just to prove that point, I suppose you will have all seen or will soon see the counter-proposals that Mrs May has come up with today for the Ireland border. She thinks that a good example of how a frictionless border with no infrastructure between Northern Ireland and the Republic is that between the USA and Canada. Which has massive border posts and armed customs guards! Plot.....lost...

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Do keep up.

The EU was setting out in legal documents the fact that there are penalties for any nation which breaks the agreed rules of the Single Market. The document stated that if the UK didn’t stick to these rules during the transition period, there would be penalties applied as a consequence.

That tends to happen if you sign up to an agreement then break the rules.

The fact that a gobshite like Rees-Mogg with a track record of spouting b*llocks on the EU as long as the M1 [1] goes running to Nanny claiming that they aren’t being fair is neither here nor there. But it obviously did it’s job of convincing intelligent people like you that the EU is out to get us. 

[1] Here’s a more recent example.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jdportes/status/969203541561823232

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo

Umunna isn’t criticising the EU. He’s pointing out the fact that our Govt hasn’t got a scooby what the end game is.

I’m surprised at you falling for bullshit spin like that from Murdoch.

[Bentley Bullet]

Do you agree with Rees-Mogg that the document is a punishment plan BB?

If so what should it say so 'they don't get away with making an example of us as a deterrent'?

Whether I agree with it or not isn't the problem, Wilts. The problem is if Rees-Mogg is right.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Here’s a challenge for you. Go and see if you can find anything Rees-Mogg has said about the EU that stands up to scrutiny.

[Bentley Bullet]

I've already shared a link about 10 posts up BST. Scrutinise that if you like.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I've already shared a link about 10 posts up BST. Scrutinise that if you like.

It looks like I've scrutinised it more than you. Nowhere does anybody mentioned in that article call anything a 'punishment'. Sky does, in an attempt to put words into the the mouths of others and make the gullible splutter into their tea with outrage.

So I'm still waiting for something from the Government, the negotiating team or the ERG. Back to you.

PS Did the fact that this is all about the transition period the EU has agreed to - which they had no need to agree to at all so in fact represents the very opposite of them 'punishing' us - escape you?

[wilts rover]

Was he right when he said in a tv interview last week that Jeremy Corbyn had voted against the Good Friday Agreement?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Aye. It was b*llocks.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Re Mogg and his veracity, I remembered a little snippet from a Private Eye of last November....

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way. That link I posted earlier of Rees-Mogg pushing a story from The S*n claiming that many things will cost less when we leave the CU.

The S*n has accepted that EVERY SINGLE FIGURE was exaggerated. They have deleted their tweet and will be publishing an apology in the paper.

Hundreds of people have contacted Rees-Mogg asking him to delete his tweet and post an apology for misleading the thousands of people who read and re-tweeted his post.

He hasn’t done so.

That’s the measure of the man.

If you’re interested, this is a simple explanation why the figures that The S*n posted and Rees-Mogg propagated are total b*llocks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/StevePeers/status/968775024017625088

[Glyn_Wigley]

By the way. That link I posted earlier of Rees-Mogg pushing a story from The S*n claiming that many things will cost less when we leave the CU.

The S*n has accepted that EVERY SINGLE FIGURE was exaggerated. They have deleted their tweet and will be publishing an apology in the paper.

Hundreds of people have contacted Rees-Mogg asking him to delete his tweet and post an apology for misleading the thousands of people who read and re-tweeted his post.

He hasn’t done so.

That’s the measure of the man.

If you’re interested, this is a simple explanation why the figures that The S*n posted and Rees-Mogg propagated are total b*llocks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/StevePeers/status/968775024017625088

The funniest one of those has to be the packet of fags. The majority of the price of cigarettes is Excise Duty, which has absolutely zilch to do with importing them and even less to do with the EU.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, I refer you to the answer I gave to the honourable disciple of yours in an earlier post.
"Whether I agree with it (Rees-Mogg's claim) or not isn't the problem, Wilts. The problem is if Rees-Mogg is right".

Now, I only mentioned Mogg after another one of your disciples suggested that if there had been any signs of the EU making an example of the UK for Brexit, "that mouthpiece Rees-Smugg would be instantly jumping up and down bleating about it". Alas, when I produced some evidence that he was, it was rejected!

Now it seems I'm a fan of Rees-Mogg!

BST, you seem a reasonable bloke. Can't you see why people get pissed off with the treatment they sometimes get for offering an alternative view?

To me, it's water off a duck's back, that's why I revisit the thread from time to time. But I'm sure there would be far more contributions of differing views if it wasn't for the frequent use of twisting and distorting tactics towards those who dare to offer an alternative opinion.

[wilts rover]

The last one is the most worrying one. 'Vote Leave Economist Admits Brexit Would Mostly Eliminate Manufacturing In The UK' - now THAT is what would happen if Jacob Rees-Mogg is right.

[wilts rover]

Thanks for your answer BB. You appear to have missed this question however:

If so what should it say so 'they don't get away with making an example of us as a deterrent'?

[Bentley Bullet]

https://youtu.be/IO4Yyd8t0P8

[Glyn_Wigley]

Now, I only mentioned Mogg after another one of your disciples suggested that if there had been any signs of the EU making an example of the UK for Brexit, "that mouthpiece Rees-Smugg would be instantly jumping up and down bleating about it". Alas, when I produced some evidence that he was, it was rejected!

It was rejected because Mogg nether said 'punishment' (which was your original assertion and what I asked for but didn't get), NOR that he considered it the EU making an example of the UK, which is what you're now wanting us to believe I asked you for (which I didn't but didn't get either anyway)!

And you trot out the 'twisting and distorting' b*llocks yet again after doing that!

[Sprotyrover]

Well it looks like the Sun got plenty of publicity today!