Brexit Dividend

[scawsby steve]

Of course I'm not taking that deal.

Anyone who genuinely cares about the future of this country should always be prepared to look at the consequences of the decisions we make.

Do you think we should just close our eyes and ears to the issue?

It looks like Keith has, seeing as he's told us all to move on from it.

You see I'm struggling here to understand why, if the EU is so economically wonderful, and we're in such sh*t because we've left, Keith doesn't want us to re-join. Ed Davey does, and I'd be fine with it.

Over to you, Keith.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course I'm not taking that deal.

Anyone who genuinely cares about the future of this country should always be prepared to look at the consequences of the decisions we make.

Do you think we should just close our eyes and ears to the issue?

It looks like Keith has, seeing as he's told us all to move on from it.

You see I'm struggling here to understand why, if the EU is so economically wonderful, and we're in such sh*t because we've left, Keith doesn't want us to re-join. Ed Davey does, and I'd be fine with it.

Over to you, Keith.

I explained why here in detail

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=283698.msg1200219#msg1200219

You obviously didn't read it before you replied.

[SydneyRover]

Couldn't find the bit about the cheesemaker having to sell up due to brexit on sky news.

[scawsby steve]

Of course I'm not taking that deal.

Anyone who genuinely cares about the future of this country should always be prepared to look at the consequences of the decisions we make.

Do you think we should just close our eyes and ears to the issue?

It looks like Keith has, seeing as he's told us all to move on from it.

You see I'm struggling here to understand why, if the EU is so economically wonderful, and we're in such sh*t because we've left, Keith doesn't want us to re-join. Ed Davey does, and I'd be fine with it.

Over to you, Keith.

I explained why here in detail

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=283698.msg1200219#msg1200219

You obviously didn't read it before you replied.

I did read it, and it's no more than a speculative opinion on your part.

My concern is that Starmer hasn't got the balls to make the big decisions like re-joining the EU, and taking the railways and public utilities back into public ownership where we all know they should be.

In this respect, it looks like he's going to be offering nothing much different to the Tories; and if your analysis is true, that he'll be handed a poisoned chalice in 2024, he could end up being one of the most maligned Labour Prime Ministers ever.

To be honest, I don't envy his position right now.

[SydneyRover]

funny old world aye Steve, the government are putting red lines everywhere on brexit untouchables due to political pressure and you want Starmer (or don't want ... who knows) to do just that.

[tommy toes]

How about this then Brexiteers

https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1594672776639651841?t=UrDy08F8jNH
5x4q21QaWQ&s=19


'The biggest problem we have is stopping people coming across in dinghies'
F**k me sideways. This bloke's our PM.

[River Don]

SS

To be honest Starmer can't make the decision to rejoin the EU because the EU won't allow it. I doubt very much that the EU will want a disruptive UK back in the fold until there is clear evidence that there is widespread and deep support within the country for it and that the UK rejoining will be acceptable to nations like France who may well be sceptical about it.

It's interesting that Sunak has floated the idea of a Swiss type of arrangement. I think he and Hunt would like to soften this Brexit.

Whether that happens or not there is absolutely no incentive for Starmer to reopen the can of worms that is Brexit. Be under no illusion, it would tear the political consensus apart again and we'd be back to years of chaos and disruption. The country isn't in any kind of state to go through that kind of upheaval again.

[Glyn_Wigley]

SS

To be honest Starmer can't make the decision to rejoin the EU because the EU won't allow it. I doubt very much that the EU will want a disruptive UK back in the fold until there is clear evidence that there is widespread and deep support within the country for it and that the UK rejoining will be acceptable to nations like France who may well be sceptical about it.

It's interesting that Sunak has floated the idea of a Swiss type of arrangement. I think he and Hunt would like to soften this Brexit.

Whether that happens or not there is absolutely no incentive for Starmer to reopen the can of worms that is Brexit. Be under no illusion, it would tear the political consensus apart again and we'd be back to years of chaos and disruption. The country isn't in any kind of state to go through that kind of upheaval again.

What? Re-enter an EU institution without a referendum? How undemocratic can you get?

[River Don]

SS

To be honest Starmer can't make the decision to rejoin the EU because the EU won't allow it. I doubt very much that the EU will want a disruptive UK back in the fold until there is clear evidence that there is widespread and deep support within the country for it and that the UK rejoining will be acceptable to nations like France who may well be sceptical about it.

It's interesting that Sunak has floated the idea of a Swiss type of arrangement. I think he and Hunt would like to soften this Brexit.

Whether that happens or not there is absolutely no incentive for Starmer to reopen the can of worms that is Brexit. Be under no illusion, it would tear the political consensus apart again and we'd be back to years of chaos and disruption. The country isn't in any kind of state to go through that kind of upheaval again.

What? Re-enter an EU institution without a referendum? How undemocratic can you get?

Brexit was never well defined, it wouldn't matter.

[Glyn_Wigley]

SS

To be honest Starmer can't make the decision to rejoin the EU because the EU won't allow it. I doubt very much that the EU will want a disruptive UK back in the fold until there is clear evidence that there is widespread and deep support within the country for it and that the UK rejoining will be acceptable to nations like France who may well be sceptical about it.

It's interesting that Sunak has floated the idea of a Swiss type of arrangement. I think he and Hunt would like to soften this Brexit.

Whether that happens or not there is absolutely no incentive for Starmer to reopen the can of worms that is Brexit. Be under no illusion, it would tear the political consensus apart again and we'd be back to years of chaos and disruption. The country isn't in any kind of state to go through that kind of upheaval again.

What? Re-enter an EU institution without a referendum? How undemocratic can you get?

Brexit was never well defined, it wouldn't matter.

It mattered to a lot on here that a second referendum on a final brexit deal
was deemed to be 'undemocratic'!

[SydneyRover]

How about this then Brexiteers

https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1594672776639651841?t=UrDy08F8jNH
5x4q21QaWQ&s=19


'The biggest problem we have is stopping people coming across in dinghies'
F**k me sideways. This bloke's our PM.

And why is this latest tory government in power, abject failures on the economy, cohesive society, poverty, education, health, housing, policing, pollution and more because as you say an extremely small number of people make it across the channel in small boats.

[SydneyRover]

Watched a bit- 13mins or so until the suntan without a brain kept saying lower taxes were and are the answer to the economic woes.

https://news.sky.com/video/common-ground-has-brexit-broken-the-economy-12753518

[tommy toes]

Liars or idiots.

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1594622491611234305?t=tGnHvWNk7fJfhfs8NYmZnA&s=02

[SydneyRover]

Liars or idiots.

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1594622491611234305?t=tGnHvWNk7fJfhfs8NYmZnA&s=02

So taking in what we know, that receipts to treasury are down around 40bn/annum and what that lot and others told the world what would and would and wouldn't happen and got it totally wrong by no other organisation than the OBR then you'd think there would be a huge slice of humble pie waiting for all of them, no.

Take farage (please) broker, financial advisor, still banging the brexit drum if a smidge less loudly, why would you go to someone like him that couldn't/wouldn't see the simple fact that while 27 countries in the EU lost a single trading partner (admittedly quite a large one) whereas the UK lost access to trade from 27 countries? tell me why you would put your financial future in the hands of any brexiter that refuses to admit they got it wrong? Forget the politics this is an question of economics.

[wilts rover]

Beaches in UK could be stripped of their Blue Flag status (which measures cleanliness and quality & achieved under EU's clean water directive) due to massive increase in pollution (allowed by UK gov 'scrapping EU laws' and allowing discharge of sewage into rivers and onto beaches).

Story brought to you by a newspaper that campaign for this to happen:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11471013/Britains-Blue-Flag-beaches-STRIPPED-status-sewage.html

[SydneyRover]

Having never read the D Mail does it cover sport well or have other attributes, what impels people to pay for it? can anyone on the forum throw some light on this?

[scawsby steve]

Liars or idiots.

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1594622491611234305?t=tGnHvWNk7fJfhfs8NYmZnA&s=02

So taking in what we know, that receipts to treasury are down around 40bn/annum and what that lot and others told the world what would and would and wouldn't happen and got it totally wrong by no other organisation than the OBR then you'd think there would be a huge slice of humble pie waiting for all of them, no.

Take farage (please) broker, financial advisor, still banging the brexit drum if a smidge less loudly, why would you go to someone like him that couldn't/wouldn't see the simple fact that while 27 countries in the EU lost a single trading partner (admittedly quite a large one) whereas the UK lost access to trade from 27 countries? tell me why you would put your financial future in the hands of any brexiter that refuses to admit they got it wrong? Forget the politics this is an question of economics.

Syd, I know you don't do answers, but I'll ask the question anyway.

What do you think Keith meant when he said "It's time for us all to move on now from Brexit"?

[mugnapper]

Beaches in UK could be stripped of their Blue Flag status (which measures cleanliness and quality & achieved under EU's clean water directive) due to massive increase in pollution (allowed by UK gov 'scrapping EU laws' and allowing discharge of sewage into rivers and onto beaches).

Story brought to you by a newspaper that campaign for this to happen:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11471013/Britains-Blue-Flag-beaches-STRIPPED-status-sewage.html

Maybe they should implement a Brown Flag standard?

[SydneyRover]

Liars or idiots.

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1594622491611234305?t=tGnHvWNk7fJfhfs8NYmZnA&s=02

So taking in what we know, that receipts to treasury are down around 40bn/annum and what that lot and others told the world what would and would and wouldn't happen and got it totally wrong by no other organisation than the OBR then you'd think there would be a huge slice of humble pie waiting for all of them, no.

Take farage (please) broker, financial advisor, still banging the brexit drum if a smidge less loudly, why would you go to someone like him that couldn't/wouldn't see the simple fact that while 27 countries in the EU lost a single trading partner (admittedly quite a large one) whereas the UK lost access to trade from 27 countries? tell me why you would put your financial future in the hands of any brexiter that refuses to admit they got it wrong? Forget the politics this is an question of economics.

Syd, I know you don't do answers, but I'll ask the question anyway.

What do you think Keith meant when he said "It's time for us all to move on now from Brexit"?

As with many Steve you appear to be a bit politically naive, I will indulge you again, although not sure why I should bother as you are full of accusations but rarely ever reply to my questions aye?

Starmer is trying to take power, but because of the fickle nature of those that should know better, those that would rather lose the next election than support someone that doesn't fit their ideal he has to court the centre. If he makes the merest suggestion of bringing a reversal of brexit back into play the right wing media will ignore the corrupt governments of the past 12 years and tear labour to bits. It has been explained on here many times by others, what is it a politics you don't understand Steve?

[scawsby steve]

Liars or idiots.

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1594622491611234305?t=tGnHvWNk7fJfhfs8NYmZnA&s=02

So taking in what we know, that receipts to treasury are down around 40bn/annum and what that lot and others told the world what would and would and wouldn't happen and got it totally wrong by no other organisation than the OBR then you'd think there would be a huge slice of humble pie waiting for all of them, no.

Take farage (please) broker, financial advisor, still banging the brexit drum if a smidge less loudly, why would you go to someone like him that couldn't/wouldn't see the simple fact that while 27 countries in the EU lost a single trading partner (admittedly quite a large one) whereas the UK lost access to trade from 27 countries? tell me why you would put your financial future in the hands of any brexiter that refuses to admit they got it wrong? Forget the politics this is an question of economics.

Syd, I know you don't do answers, but I'll ask the question anyway.

What do you think Keith meant when he said "It's time for us all to move on now from Brexit"?

As with many Steve you appear to be a bit politically naive, I will indulge you again, although not sure why I should bother as you are full of accusations but rarely ever reply to my questions aye?

Starmer is trying to take power, but because of the fickle nature of those that should know better, those that would rather lose the next election than support someone that doesn't fit their ideal he has to court the centre. If he makes the merest suggestion of bringing a reversal of brexit back into play the right wing media will ignore the corrupt governments of the past 12 years and tear labour to bits. It has been explained on here many times by others, what is it a politics you don't understand Steve?

He HAS to court the centre? Are you having a laugh? Since when has Keith not been a centrist?

The proof of the pudding will come this Winter, when political interviewers will press him on what he thinks about Mick Lynch, the RMT, the striking nurses, and all the other striking unions.

Incidentally, what do YOU think about all the strikes coming up this Winter?

[SydneyRover]

Starmer didn't elect himself Steve the labour party put him in because of the dreadful mess made by the previous leader, they put him in to make the labour party electable.

[SydneyRover]

Instead of continually demanding answers and solutions why not put up your solutions to everything Steve and tell me what you are doing to help.

https://www.easycareaustralia.com.au/collections/tilt-lift-chairs

Maybe buy a couple and hand them around to your friends.

[SydneyRover]

Here's some interesting numbers for budding economists to get their heads around and waverers to consider ...

'' ........ As for GDP, the unweighted average annual growth for a Conservative chancellor since 1979 has been a pallid 1.34% – compared with Gordon Brown’s 2.7% during his 10 years as chancellor. It bodes ill for the already dismal Tory record that the current chancellor used the opening remarks of his autumn statement to confirm that the UK is already in recession .......''

'' ....... On the value of the pound, no Tory chancellor of the past four decades has shepherded sterling’s return to its May 1979 value of $2.07, with only Labour managing to bring it back above $2, in 2007. In the time it took the chancellor to deliver his statement, the pound actually fell by a full percentage point.

The Coalition-era chancellor, George Osborne, saw wages fall and presided over a programme of austerity that created the conditions for profound and far-reaching crises in our public services, from days-long A&E wait times to schools with huge budget shortfalls. Food banks have seen a 100-fold increase in demand since 2010. Analysis suggests that depressed incomes and chilled consumer spending from austerity delivers an annual £100bn hit to GDP ........ ''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/27/tory-chancellors-jeremy-hunt-lawson-osborne-poverty-austerity

[BillyStubbsTears]

That well known lefty rag the FT pinning its colours to the mast on Brexit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1597966802071461890

[tyke1962]

Cracking performance by the Re-Join EU candidate in the Chester by election , a real mandate there 

Chester is hardly the red wall either given its electoral history .

As you were ............

[BillyStubbsTears]

Cracking performance by the Re-Join EU candidate in the Chester by election , a real mandate there 

Chester is hardly the red wall either given its electoral history .

As you were ............

Why do you do this? What purpose does it serve you.

You WON! You, you personally, gave Johnson and Rees-Mogg and Gove and Arab the mandate they needed.

You won.

Can't you be happy with that? Do you have to keep fighting the old battle?

[tyke1962]

Cracking performance by the Re-Join EU candidate in the Chester by election , a real mandate there 

Chester is hardly the red wall either given its electoral history .

As you were ............

Why do you do this? What purpose does it serve you.

You WON! You, you personally, gave Johnson and Rees-Mogg and Gove and Arab the mandate they needed.

You won.

Can't you be happy with that? Do you have to keep fighting the old battle?

Just responsive Billy and nothing more than that to be honest .

The only demographic fighting old battles are the bitter remainers and their incessant pathetic hysterical rants .

At least at the Chester by election Rejoin managed a hundred more votes than the Monster Raving Looney Party .

Got to take the positives .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nothing worse than an ungracious winner.

I'm surprised you've not given us your opinion on the Labour performance though. You never seem short of an opinion on Labour.

[Branton Red]

Given the apparent strength of feeling on this issue and the fact that none of the main national parties are advocating rejoining the EU currently I'm very pleased to see this Rejoin EU party contesting elections.

They are fulfilling an important democratic function in allowing people (such as the 277 of voters in Chester) who are unhappy with this area of Government policy to make their feelings known.

Of course it's interesting and enlightening to see how well they perform especially in safe seats such as Chester where voters may be more tempted to vote for single issue parties/involve themselves in 'protest' votes.

Anyone on here likely to vote for them?

[tyke1962]

Nothing worse than an ungracious winner.

I'm surprised you've not given us your opinion on the Labour performance though. You never seem short of an opinion on Labour.

It was a good result for Labour given the circumstances that led to the by election , that could easily have gone against them given the marginal history of the seat .

As long as Keith sticks to the plan , which is to let the Tories fall on their sword , keep the Red Wall leavers onside whilst more or less saying to the metropolitan remainers they don't have anywhere else to go he should win relatively comfortably .