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Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 12, 2021, 08:22:45 pmQuote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 12:09:27 pmQuote from: normal rules on July 12, 2021, 12:00:03 pmQuote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 11:47:51 amThe last World Cup we only just missed out in the final. It’s a bit silly to say we won’t reach a final again, The players we have are as good as anyone else in the world, this tournament has proven that Er, if I recall England did not make the final. And on that note let’s talk about England’s progress in that competition. Group stage. Win against a poor Tunisia followed by a similar game against Panama. Two easy games on paper. Then lose against Belgium in a game the press billed as a “good one to lose” as it set up an easier next game. (Sound familiar?)Win against Columbia ((pens) then against Sweden before losing to Croatia in the semi. Couldn’t even beat Belgium to get third place. In many ways, this has been a carbon copy tournament with the exception of getting to the final. The current squad have been great. No doubt. But it’s not enough. Drives me mad when people keep going on about our “easy” routes in tournamentsNo other supporters in the world would look at it in such a negative way. Have a look at the teams Portugal played in the last euro to win it, If donny got to the fa cup final would you care who they played. The fact is in this tournament we’ve beatenCroatia, the World Cup finalists who went on to draw with Spain Czech Republic who Knocked out Holland Germany Denmark who were as good as anyone after rhe first two games and had the massive motivation,And then we’ve lost on penalties in the final to a side who everyone has been raving about It's not negative. It is recognising a fact.England will be very fortunate to get a path to the latter stages for a third time in a row without running into a serious contendernin R2 or QF.Saying that does not in any way belittle what England have achieved. It contextualises it. There's likely to be a significant improvement needed to match, let alone better these last two tournament performances. And for once in my life, I think that is doable. Not replying to you specifically but who genuinely has "run the gauntlet" in terms of winning a major tournament? Certainly this milennium? As every tournament gets diluted with average teams it's highly unlikely that we're going to have to beat Holland then Argentina then Spain then Italy to win a WC.
Quote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 12:09:27 pmQuote from: normal rules on July 12, 2021, 12:00:03 pmQuote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 11:47:51 amThe last World Cup we only just missed out in the final. It’s a bit silly to say we won’t reach a final again, The players we have are as good as anyone else in the world, this tournament has proven that Er, if I recall England did not make the final. And on that note let’s talk about England’s progress in that competition. Group stage. Win against a poor Tunisia followed by a similar game against Panama. Two easy games on paper. Then lose against Belgium in a game the press billed as a “good one to lose” as it set up an easier next game. (Sound familiar?)Win against Columbia ((pens) then against Sweden before losing to Croatia in the semi. Couldn’t even beat Belgium to get third place. In many ways, this has been a carbon copy tournament with the exception of getting to the final. The current squad have been great. No doubt. But it’s not enough. Drives me mad when people keep going on about our “easy” routes in tournamentsNo other supporters in the world would look at it in such a negative way. Have a look at the teams Portugal played in the last euro to win it, If donny got to the fa cup final would you care who they played. The fact is in this tournament we’ve beatenCroatia, the World Cup finalists who went on to draw with Spain Czech Republic who Knocked out Holland Germany Denmark who were as good as anyone after rhe first two games and had the massive motivation,And then we’ve lost on penalties in the final to a side who everyone has been raving about It's not negative. It is recognising a fact.England will be very fortunate to get a path to the latter stages for a third time in a row without running into a serious contendernin R2 or QF.Saying that does not in any way belittle what England have achieved. It contextualises it. There's likely to be a significant improvement needed to match, let alone better these last two tournament performances. And for once in my life, I think that is doable.
Quote from: normal rules on July 12, 2021, 12:00:03 pmQuote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 11:47:51 amThe last World Cup we only just missed out in the final. It’s a bit silly to say we won’t reach a final again, The players we have are as good as anyone else in the world, this tournament has proven that Er, if I recall England did not make the final. And on that note let’s talk about England’s progress in that competition. Group stage. Win against a poor Tunisia followed by a similar game against Panama. Two easy games on paper. Then lose against Belgium in a game the press billed as a “good one to lose” as it set up an easier next game. (Sound familiar?)Win against Columbia ((pens) then against Sweden before losing to Croatia in the semi. Couldn’t even beat Belgium to get third place. In many ways, this has been a carbon copy tournament with the exception of getting to the final. The current squad have been great. No doubt. But it’s not enough. Drives me mad when people keep going on about our “easy” routes in tournamentsNo other supporters in the world would look at it in such a negative way. Have a look at the teams Portugal played in the last euro to win it, If donny got to the fa cup final would you care who they played. The fact is in this tournament we’ve beatenCroatia, the World Cup finalists who went on to draw with Spain Czech Republic who Knocked out Holland Germany Denmark who were as good as anyone after rhe first two games and had the massive motivation,And then we’ve lost on penalties in the final to a side who everyone has been raving about
Quote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 11:47:51 amThe last World Cup we only just missed out in the final. It’s a bit silly to say we won’t reach a final again, The players we have are as good as anyone else in the world, this tournament has proven that Er, if I recall England did not make the final. And on that note let’s talk about England’s progress in that competition. Group stage. Win against a poor Tunisia followed by a similar game against Panama. Two easy games on paper. Then lose against Belgium in a game the press billed as a “good one to lose” as it set up an easier next game. (Sound familiar?)Win against Columbia ((pens) then against Sweden before losing to Croatia in the semi. Couldn’t even beat Belgium to get third place. In many ways, this has been a carbon copy tournament with the exception of getting to the final. The current squad have been great. No doubt. But it’s not enough.
The last World Cup we only just missed out in the final. It’s a bit silly to say we won’t reach a final again, The players we have are as good as anyone else in the world, this tournament has proven that
Last WC, France beat Argentina, Uruguay and Belgium to reach the final.One before that, Germany faced France, Brazil and Argentina in consecutive matches.It's just a fact that we have had two exceptionally fortunate runs. Sooner or later the odds will balance out. So this squad needs to dig deep to find more in itself.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 12, 2021, 10:45:46 pmLast WC, France beat Argentina, Uruguay and Belgium to reach the final.One before that, Germany faced France, Brazil and Argentina in consecutive matches.It's just a fact that we have had two exceptionally fortunate runs. Sooner or later the odds will balance out. So this squad needs to dig deep to find more in itself. It’s not a fact at allThe run we’ve had this year is a lot tougher than Portugal’s was. You’ve picked a couple of tough runs to match your point but there’s others in there no tougher than ours
Quote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 10:49:06 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 12, 2021, 10:45:46 pmLast WC, France beat Argentina, Uruguay and Belgium to reach the final.One before that, Germany faced France, Brazil and Argentina in consecutive matches.It's just a fact that we have had two exceptionally fortunate runs. Sooner or later the odds will balance out. So this squad needs to dig deep to find more in itself. It’s not a fact at allThe run we’ve had this year is a lot tougher than Portugal’s was. You’ve picked a couple of tough runs to match your point but there’s others in there no tougher than ours Dickos.I fully agree that Portugal had an easier run. But the fact remains that the winners of 3 of the last 4 tournaments (arguably 6 of the last 7) had much harder routes. Portugal's run was the exception, not the rule.
World rankings are a joke though aren’t they Give no indication really at all
Quote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 10:46:41 pmWorld rankings are a joke though aren’t they Give no indication really at all It's a simple question really isn't it?Given the choice of Austria, Belgium and Spain as your route to a final, or Germany, Ukraine and Denmark, on current standards, which would you choose?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 12, 2021, 11:48:09 pmQuote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 10:46:41 pmWorld rankings are a joke though aren’t they Give no indication really at all It's a simple question really isn't it?Given the choice of Austria, Belgium and Spain as your route to a final, or Germany, Ukraine and Denmark, on current standards, which would you choose? Flip a coin. It's dependant on the acceptance of Belgium as #1.
Quote from: DonnyNoel on July 12, 2021, 11:52:09 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 12, 2021, 11:48:09 pmQuote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 10:46:41 pmWorld rankings are a joke though aren’t they Give no indication really at all It's a simple question really isn't it?Given the choice of Austria, Belgium and Spain as your route to a final, or Germany, Ukraine and Denmark, on current standards, which would you choose? Flip a coin. It's dependant on the acceptance of Belgium as #1.Really?
You may not be using it as a way to belittle the achievement billy, but there’s plenty that are. This tournament we’ve played some very good sides the only game we were fortunate in getting was the Ukraine game. Our group wasn’t the toughest but it certainly wasn’t the easiest, Germany in the 2nd round as as tough as it could’ve been, and Denmark in the semis was always going to be tough after what they’ve been through
Quote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 08:39:32 pmYou may not be using it as a way to belittle the achievement billy, but there’s plenty that are. This tournament we’ve played some very good sides the only game we were fortunate in getting was the Ukraine game. Our group wasn’t the toughest but it certainly wasn’t the easiest, Germany in the 2nd round as as tough as it could’ve been, and Denmark in the semis was always going to be tough after what they’ve been through We’ve been favourite in all of Southgates 7 major tournament knock out games. We’ve won three in normal time. Ukraine, Sweden and Germany.
Quote from: GazLaz on July 13, 2021, 08:37:00 amQuote from: dickos1 on July 12, 2021, 08:39:32 pmYou may not be using it as a way to belittle the achievement billy, but there’s plenty that are. This tournament we’ve played some very good sides the only game we were fortunate in getting was the Ukraine game. Our group wasn’t the toughest but it certainly wasn’t the easiest, Germany in the 2nd round as as tough as it could’ve been, and Denmark in the semis was always going to be tough after what they’ve been through We’ve been favourite in all of Southgates 7 major tournament knock out games. We’ve won three in normal time. Ukraine, Sweden and Germany. Yes, but how many have we lost in normal time ?
Southgate is the most successful manager we have had since 66 , however …..in 2 competitions he has used a defensive strategy from a position of strength when it would have been better to continue with an offensive strategy!I don’t know if the defensive part of his dna will allow him to just go for it and use all the weapons at his disposal, ….. we shall see at the World Cup whether he has learned anything from our capitulation and eventual lossPerhaps the rumour of a place on the honours list caused him to change tactic, who knows
Quote from: sha66y on July 15, 2021, 07:02:13 pmSouthgate is the most successful manager we have had since 66 , however …..in 2 competitions he has used a defensive strategy from a position of strength when it would have been better to continue with an offensive strategy!I don’t know if the defensive part of his dna will allow him to just go for it and use all the weapons at his disposal, ….. we shall see at the World Cup whether he has learned anything from our capitulation and eventual lossPerhaps the rumour of a place on the honours list caused him to change tactic, who knowsYour first comment is correct, so what makes you think you're a better judge than Southgate of what is the better game strategy?
Our defence is our strength. That’s why we only conceded one goal in open play throughout the whole tournament. We had 4 attacking players in most games, how many do you think we should have?