Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: wing commander on August 21, 2019, 10:46:35 am
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Whilst we all have sympathy for the fans of these clubs in trouble all the talk on this fiasco has been about the points and do we play again..
However there is another issue..How much through no fault of our own has this actually cost the club..Both in time and money??..Obviously coaches had been booked,pre match hotel maybe,and all the things that comes with organising the team to play away on a Tuesday night..Then theres all the man hours spent running around finding out whats happening...
That of course is before the cost to our fans,some of whom had booked days off work,Paul and his supporters buses and booked trains which are none refundable..Add it all together and I bet it's a tidy sum..
All costs incurred because Bolton decided on their own backs and without any thought or due process through the correct channels that they simply didn't want to play...Is there any recourse for these costs????
I don't believe the welfare of their players was the sole reason for this,their has to be another reason why, because as the home team cancelling this game would cost Bolton in theory a lot more than us...With stewards,and the costs of Matchdays etc etc..I wonder if the pies and burgers had to be skipped or more likely were they not even ordered in the first place..
My own view is that I don't think they ever had any intention of playing this game and left it to the last possible minute to announce it so that the EFL couldn't make them play...
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I think it would have cost them more to stage the game, than they would have taken in gate receipts and food and drink sales.I think it was a financial reason.
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Again, its in the EFL rule book that Bolton have to compensate DRFC for any direct costs incurred.
I don't know practically how its going to be applied in this situation.
(I would imagine the costs to us were actually minimal, and we're not the type of club to go chasing that kind of thing)
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Well we should go chasing that kind of thing...Bolton are in the hands of a administrator.Which means from the date they are appointed all future costs incurred are their responsibility and not the old owners of Bolton Wanderers.If they don't think they can continue trading then they have a duty to the creditors to stop...
It's not a case of joining a long list of creditors from the previous regime..Those are parked from the day they are appointed...
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I think something that this does show, and it's maybe the wrong thread to state this, but this shows that Bolton's Administrator is doing what they deem best for the club, not for the EFL and certainly not for the wider footballing community.
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I think something that this does show, and it's maybe the wrong thread to state this, but this shows that Bolton's Administrator is doing what they deem best for the club, not for the EFL and certainly not for the wider footballing community.
Is that not the job of the Admin?
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I get your point mate but when a administrator is appointed his duty of care is the creditors of the company.His first job is to evaluate the funds available and the assets to determined whether the company is able to continue trading as a going concern..
Which is why I think they cancelled this game,i'm betting they haven't got the funds available to continue to fulfil it's fixtures and duties even after the cost cutting measures they will have in place..The administrator cant not pay the staff or the players.He has to pay them or send them home..Things are getting desperate and it's obvious to me that they are banking on trying to get a deal over the line as quickly as they can before they have to cease trading.Our cancellation probably had nothing to do with Welfare and more to do with buying a bit of time while not facing the loss that a very low gate on a Tuesday night with Doncaster Rovers..Ipswich of course will take a few thousand and the home gate will be bigger as fans begin to realise that they need to give a bit of money...I bet you they can play that one if allowed....
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Is it correct that they are now agreeing to play on sat?
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Well both Bolton and Ipswich are still selling tickets for it so I think its safe to say they are planning to..Ipswich would have already checked with Bolton on their intentions..
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I get your point mate but when a administrator is appointed his duty of care is the creditors of the company.His first job is to evaluate the funds available and the assets to determined whether the company is able to continue trading as a going concern..
Which is why I think they cancelled this game,i'm betting they haven't got the funds available to continue to fulfil it's fixtures and duties even after the cost cutting measures they will have in place..The administrator cant not pay the staff or the players.He has to pay them or send them home..Things are getting desperate and it's obvious to me that they are banking on trying to get a deal over the line as quickly as they can before they have to cease trading.Our cancellation probably had nothing to do with Welfare and more to do with buying a bit of time while not facing the loss that a very low gate on a Tuesday night with Doncaster Rovers..Ipswich of course will take a few thousand and the home gate will be bigger as fans begin to realise that they need to give a bit of money...I bet you they can play that one if allowed....
Exactly, but I naively imagine that the administrator will be working closely with the EFL to ensure everyone is happy, and that fixtures can be met.
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Hope Ipswich smash them 10 nil
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Hope Ipswich smash them 10 nil
What if Bolton win? I can't think Ipswich would be very impressed that Bolton unilaterally decided to have a week's rest when they've had to play on Tuesday.
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Lose lose. If Bolton win Ipswich will rightly say Bolton have had more rest and it's unfair.
If Ipswich smash them and get 3 points and a massive goal difference, Rovers will rightly say we could have done that Tuesday night and we've been denied the opportunity because Bolton decided they didn't want to play.
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I wonder, if this was truly a last minute decision to call off the game, was a programme printed? Were refreshments ordered and delivery taken? When were the police advised the match was not going ahead? The Ambulance/s and other mandatory safety requirements cancelled? All of these and more surely must have been in place?
Saying all this, we have to let it go. Let the EFL hold their inquiry and impose appropriate disciplinary measures and award whatever compensations we are entitled to. Crying and wailing will have zero influence. I don't want 'free points. They are meaningless, as is an arbitrary 3 goals. Coventry would no doubt agree. A mythical 3-0 could be better (or worse) than if we played.
The way things are shaping up, if Bolton's takeover ever happens they are going to be playing 2 games every week until the end of the season, sometimes, I imagine 3 if there are cup replays. That alone makes results against them something of a lottery. Already folk are highlighting the unfairness of games already played against future ones, never mind ones with imaginary scores awarded.
Perhaps in the circumstances, and bearing in mind they will almost certainly be relegated when punishment is heaped on top of the existing points deduction, they should be allowed to play this season's fixtures with the result expunged from the tables and they can then start next year afresh in L2.
This would at least give them turnover and income, hopefully sufficient to keep the club afloat and properly prepared for a new beginning next August.
The current situation cannot be allowed to deteriorate further. Similarly at Bury. Otherwise the table could be randomly distorted by up to 12 points for every other club.
Put Bury and Bolton fans out of their current misery and uncertainty and allow them to plan for 2020 with a clean slate, albeit in a division lower but with their club still alive.
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It's alright letting them playband then expunging results it what about red and yellow cards earned playing them?
There is also the chance of injuries to your players in a meaningless match.
Would you risk first team players against them if you have another game three days later especially if it was a six pointer coming up?
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Individually most people will have incurred costs and even if very minimal in some cases collectively it has cost us as fans a lot of money
Collecting Refunds for instance
You had to take the Tickets back and there was no way as far as I know to get the refund online. So a trip today for me involved at least £4 in Petrol. As I said - not much individually - but collectively just that one element will have added up.
At least with a bad weather / postponed game you can hang on to Tickets till the games get played
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Where is the good news that EFL are actually taking action over what is now two postponements and still Bolton do not get punished.
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Lets hope it comes soon and gives us 3 Points AND tells them they can cancel as many games as they like but they will lose 3 Points each time they do it
Then they may as well go s*** or bust as it used to be in my day :boxing:
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Whilst we all have sympathy for the fans of these clubs in trouble all the talk on this fiasco has been about the points and do we play again..
However there is another issue..How much through no fault of our own has this actually cost the club..Both in time and money??..Obviously coaches had been booked,pre match hotel maybe,and all the things that comes with organising the team to play away on a Tuesday night..Then theres all the man hours spent running around finding out whats happening...
That of course is before the cost to our fans,some of whom had booked days off work,Paul and his supporters buses and booked trains which are none refundable..Add it all together and I bet it's a tidy sum..
All costs incurred because Bolton decided on their own backs and without any thought or due process through the correct channels that they simply didn't want to play...Is there any recourse for these costs????
I don't believe the welfare of their players was the sole reason for this,their has to be another reason why, because as the home team cancelling this game would cost Bolton in theory a lot more than us...With stewards,and the costs of Matchdays etc etc..I wonder if the pies and burgers had to be skipped or more likely were they not even ordered in the first place..
My own view is that I don't think they ever had any intention of playing this game and left it to the last possible minute to announce it so that the EFL couldn't make them play...
well said WCa I was saying to my wife when I heard
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Where is the good news that EFL are actually taking action over what is now two postponements and still Bolton do not get punished.
Perhaps the EFL are simply waiting for the whole debacle to play out before addressing postponement issues. Depending how it goes, Bolton could save them having to make a decision. What's the point awarding each team they don't play points and then having to wipe them out if Bolton can't ultimately fulfil their obligations and have to be expelled.
Let's just wait and see how it plays out.
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It's alright letting them playband then expunging results it what about red and yellow cards earned playing them?
There is also the chance of injuries to your players in a meaningless match.
Would you risk first team players against them if you have another game three days later especially if it was a six pointer coming up?
It would make no difference. Teams could send a development squad to play, or use it as a fitness exercise. The important thing is to keep the names of Bolton and Bury alive for the sake of the fans, not the owners or the administrators.
Right now there's a chance one or both could fold and surely, after what happened under Richardson, none of us want that?
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Would Bolton or Bury be able to pay the travel costs of the opposition though?
Not many away fans would turn up for a reserve game and the EFL might not let them drop prices to encourage more to attend.
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Interesting to hear Big Sam on the Radio this morning..Also the fact he said that he had been told the players found the training ground locked this week leads weight to the fact Tuesday was more financial than Welfare related..
Parkinson and his assistant gone now as well..It's difficult to understand how it can get to this stage for them but in this case it sounds like more people are interested in the assets/hotel than the actual football club...
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It's alright letting them playband then expunging results it what about red and yellow cards earned playing them?
There is also the chance of injuries to your players in a meaningless match.
Would you risk first team players against them if you have another game three days later especially if it was a six pointer coming up?
It would make no difference. Teams could send a development squad to play, or use it as a fitness exercise. The important thing is to keep the names of Bolton and Bury alive for the sake of the fans, not the owners or the administrators.
Right now there's a chance one or both could fold and surely, after what happened under Richardson, none of us want that?
None of us should want either Club to go. It nearly happened to us and several other Clubs have been taken right to the wire (some even just past it)
Unfortunately with the way modern football is going nobody should be surprised if more and more basket cases crop up and some of them dont make it.
So sad for Supporters who invest their time and money (usually) supporting their home town team and through no fault of their own end in a "cul de sac"
Hope Bolton and Bury stick around - but I dont ever expect Bury to reach an FA Cup Final ever again let alone register its record win of 6-0
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Where is the good news that EFL are actually taking action over what is now two postponements and still Bolton do not get punished.
These things take time. There will be action taken, no doubt..
Meanwhile we have football matches to play.
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Since the millennium, Bury have a very chequered financial history.
Clearly they have been close to the edge a few times.
Maybe this current plight has been coming.
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Have the Rovers recieved compensation for the postponed game if not they are creditors Question how can the Administrators allow more creditors
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Lose lose. If Bolton win Ipswich will rightly say Bolton have had more rest and it's unfair.
If Ipswich smash them and get 3 points and a massive goal difference, Rovers will rightly say we could have done that Tuesday night and we've been denied the opportunity because Bolton decided they didn't want to play.
some times it can benefit from playing rather than missing a game, especially this time of the year when matches practice and match fitness is concerned
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I wonder, if this was truly a last minute decision to call off the game, was a programme printed? Were refreshments ordered and delivery taken? When were the police advised the match was not going ahead? The Ambulance/s and other mandatory safety requirements cancelled? All of these and more surely must have been in place?
Saying all this, we have to let it go. Let the EFL hold their inquiry and impose appropriate disciplinary measures and award whatever compensations we are entitled to. Crying and wailing will have zero influence. I don't want 'free points. They are meaningless, as is an arbitrary 3 goals. Coventry would no doubt agree. A mythical 3-0 could be better (or worse) than if we played.
The way things are shaping up, if Bolton's takeover ever happens they are going to be playing 2 games every week until the end of the season, sometimes, I imagine 3 if there are cup replays. That alone makes results against them something of a lottery. Already folk are highlighting the unfairness of games already played against future ones, never mind ones with imaginary scores awarded.
Perhaps in the circumstances, and bearing in mind they will almost certainly be relegated when punishment is heaped on top of the existing points deduction, they should be allowed to play this season's fixtures with the result expunged from the tables and they can then start next year afresh in L2.
This would at least give them turnover and income, hopefully sufficient to keep the club afloat and properly prepared for a new beginning next August.
The current situation cannot be allowed to deteriorate further. Similarly at Bury. Otherwise the table could be randomly distorted by up to 12 points for every other club.
Put Bury and Bolton fans out of their current misery and uncertainty and allow them to plan for 2020 with a clean slate, albeit in a division lower but with their club still alive.
With regard to the programme I rung Bolton on the morning of the game asking about a programme to add to my collection. I was told there was a programme but it hadn't arrived at the ground as at midday. Their assumption was that 'when the game was replayed', the original programme would be used with an up to date insert inside. Make of that what you will.
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The printer won’t deliver if they won’t get paid..
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I think don’t club that ends up like this through mismanagement deserve what they get. Sad for true fans of course.