What would YOU have done?

[Chris Black come back]

What to do?

Our attendances have been going backwards since we first got promoted to the Championship. This, coupled with the exceedingly bleak outlook for the Doncaster economy over the next few years and also what JR has admitted is an increasingly difficult Championship in which to compete, means that we are falling further and further behind. The only way we have managed to stay remotely competitive over recent seasons has been due to Board members putting in around £3million a year to plug the gap to break even and having a manager in SOD who somehow managed to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Saying that, the wage budget has continued to rise and money made available for record signings (Billy) and the largest ever budget given to SOD this summer. All of this with the club pulling up £3million short at the end of each season.

Board members quite understandably are reluctant to continue ploughing in £3million + each year to the Rovers blackhole. In addition, SOD was either losing his touch or the quality of the Championship was getting much better. You could also argue that SOD was coming disillusioned as he missed out on bigger jobs or was just simply getting overlooked in favour of managers with much less of a pedigree.

SOD goes. Right or wrong, he hadn't managed to conjure up a win in nearly 20 games of trying. He could no longer - even with his seeming magical powers - square the circle and continue to keep us competitive in the league.

So, what do you do as a Board? Do you hope to find someone who is able to not only replicate the work done by SOD but go even further - try and keep us competitive in the fifth toughest league in Europe which has become even tougher. All of this whilst throwing in another £3million + of your own hard earned cash just to make ends meet? Even if this magician could be found and stave off relegation, what future is there for the club? What can push the club on further than constantly beating the drop?

You try and make the club sustainable. Reducing the wage bill from £8million to £4million in order to more accurately reflect the abysmal support we have from the local population. But in doing so, how do you keep the club competitive?

If this is the question that is posed, then is there any wonder that JR and Co came up with the McKay Solution?

[Standanista]

I can't argue with any of that.

[Mr1Croft]

What to do?

Our attendances have been going backwards since we first got promoted to the Championship. This, coupled with the exceedingly bleak outlook for the Doncaster economy over the next few years and also what JR has admitted is an increasingly difficult Championship in which to compete, means that we are falling further and further behind. The only way we have managed to stay remotely competitive over recent seasons has been due to Board members putting in around £3million a year to plug the gap to break even and having a manager in SOD who somehow managed to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Saying that, the wage budget has continued to rise and money made available for record signings (Billy) and the largest ever budget given to SOD this summer. All of this with the club pulling up £3million short at the end of each season.

Board members quite understandably are reluctant to continue ploughing in £3million + each year to the Rovers blackhole. In addition, SOD was either losing his touch or the quality of the Championship was getting much better. You could also argue that SOD was coming disillusioned as he missed out on bigger jobs or was just simply getting overlooked in favour of managers with much less of a pedigree.

SOD goes. Right or wrong, he hadn't managed to conjure up a win in nearly 20 games of trying. He could no longer - even with his seeming magical powers - square the circle and continue to keep us competitive in the league.

So, what do you do as a Board? Do you hope to find someone who is able to not only replicate the work done by SOD but go even further - try and keep us competitive in the fifth toughest league in Europe which has become even tougher. All of this whilst throwing in another £3million + of your own hard earned cash just to make ends meet? Even if this magician could be found and stave off relegation, what future is there for the club? What can push the club on further than constantly beating the drop?

You try and make the club sustainable. Reducing the wage bill from £8million to £4million in order to more accurately reflect the abysmal support we have from the local population. But in doing so, how do you keep the club competitive?

If this is the question that is posed, then is there any wonder that JR and Co came up with the McKay Solution?

Well if depends which veiw you take;

Were Doncaster Rovers to become the most efficient team of the championship (which would possibly = promotion) would our crowds be any bigger?

If the answer is no then you do what you can to retain the club at this level while it lasts; the board has done neither; instead we are proposing that close to a years time we will have an average player on £2000 a week and only 40 employees. Plus an agen is also trusted with the job of the club's reputable future; it it all goes wrong will this be the end of Doncaster signing big name players (even on loan?) If we stay up this season with this model it will be a true miracle. Of course to answer my first point; yes we can get bigger crowds, but does that make a difference to the board who (along with McKay) see slating the Doncaster public a good marketing stratergy?

[Donnydid]

Totally agree with the above.

There is another option for JR and the Board if they feel they cannot keep putting their own money into the Rovers and that is to sell up!
You dont go into running a football club expecting to make money unless you are an elite club, if you have plenty of money and wish to spend it on your favourite club and expect nothing in return your names Jack Walker. Owning a club might boost your ego, but if you dont have the cash to run it, spend it on something else.

I have to agree that the club does not help itself constantly slagging off the people of Donny for not watching the Rovers, I have tried to bring back two mates who used to watch the Rovers but everytime JR opens his mouth they feel he is having a go at them and they just turn their backs and say as long as he is running the club they will not go back.

[Nudga]

I think the club shouldn't have bought Billy Sharp. That money should have been spent on three or four up and coming lower league players (ALF's/Bennetts). It's that strategy that got us promoted in the first place. I think most of us wouldn't have a problem with buying these sorts of players and then selling them on at a massive profit if they come good like Matt Mills did. Also, the club should have kept match day ticket prices under £25. Everyone I speak to says \"I ain't paying x amount to watch an hour and half of football\".
But the biggest and most important thing that seems to have been negleted is the youth system, it's non existent. We should have followed Crewe Alex' model, look how many players they have developed over the years. I would much rather see a Mark Rankine type coming through than some African/French dude for three months. We should be able to attract the best young kids now because of our second tier status but for some reason, we are still losing them to Blades/Leeds.

[Capmeister]

Had a conversation with a bloke in the Yorkshire Grey. Guess what? He wasn't a Donny fan. Surprisingly, for that pub, not even Leeds but Man U. That sums up the problem though, Donny folk support anyone but their hometown club. What flabbergasts me even more is they'll even dis the town they live, got brought up in, in favour of another team, to the point I saw Donny lads at the Leeds game chanting, \" You're just a town full Leeds fans!\" Now the real irony to all this is I'm from Wakefield! That said, everytime I get off the train in Donny, every buggers off to Sheffield, Leeds or Manchester. My Dad, not from Donny either, reckons the fanbse truly died when we dropped into the conference. Myself, am not so sure. What I am sure of is if town had a league side, I'd watch 'em now and again at least. Wakey, have, in recent times got a team together and I watch em now and again. If Donny played Wakey, I'd be torn and certainly wouldnt dis them even though I've supported Donny all my life. And that's the crux of it, locals don't appear to identify with the town and I just don't understand why.

[SiBo]

Chris_Black_come_back - can't disagree with the point you're making about club drinking at the last chance saloon and having to make an big, big decision to go the route they have done. They've definitely shown some balls.

But the point remains I firmly believe DS came as part of the WM package, not because of all the reasons we have been given about SOD. Whether you wanted him to go before he was sacked or not, for me the 19 games have been used as a convenient excuse to hide behind. Look at the timing? The day before a winnable game when he would have had four additional key players available. Doesn't that strike anyone else as remotely strange?

As I've said before this isnt about whether SOD's here or not, this is about the club being completely honest about what happened, why it happened when it did and why it took a month for us to get some clarity on it all. I still don't think we've heard the full story.

Cue Wellred calling me a paranoid SOD lover and several people reciting JR's version of events.

[Berkshire Rover]

To answer the OP the first thing I would do is look internally at the club and how it operates and markets itself.

If I was funding (or part funding) a shortfall of £3m a year I would be asking my Chief Exec what he is doing to turn the occasional supporter into a part time supporter and then a regular and then a season ticket holder.

I don't think all the answer lis in that route and something needed to be done to stem the increase in players wages but we could and should be so much better at the fundamentals of running  a  football club.

Time to hold those responsible accountable!

[The Red Baron]

Can't disagree with that at all, Berkshire. I dare say that the VSC has been pointing this out to JR, but unfortunately he failed to listen. A pity that he was keener to listen to Willie McKay than his own supporters.

Re cutting the wage bill- it can be done. Look at Barnsley who realised that they couldn't go on paying out far more in wages than they earned. Yes, their manager walked, but they got a new one in who made some prudent buys from the lower leagues. I doubt they'll be pushing for promotion but I'd trade our league position for theirs- and not a super-agent in sight!

[The Red Baron]

Totally agree with the above.

There is another option for JR and the Board if they feel they cannot keep putting their own money into the Rovers and that is to sell up!
You dont go into running a football club expecting to make money unless you are an elite club, if you have plenty of money and wish to spend it on your favourite club and expect nothing in return your names Jack Walker. Owning a club might boost your ego, but if you dont have the cash to run it, spend it on something else.

I have to agree that the club does not help itself constantly slagging off the people of Donny for not watching the Rovers, I have tried to bring back two mates who used to watch the Rovers but everytime JR opens his mouth they feel he is having a go at them and they just turn their backs and say as long as he is running the club they will not go back.

I'm sure they WOULD sell up if they thought someone would buy the club and run it properly. But they wouldn't want to sell to another \"Uncle Ken\" type- and anyway I can't see people queueing around the block to buy a club that's losing £3.5M a year and doesn't own it's ground, can you?

[The Red Baron]

Had a conversation with a bloke in the Yorkshire Grey. Guess what? He wasn't a Donny fan. Surprisingly, for that pub, not even Leeds but Man U. That sums up the problem though, Donny folk support anyone but their hometown club. What flabbergasts me even more is they'll even dis the town they live, got brought up in, in favour of another team, to the point I saw Donny lads at the Leeds game chanting, \" You're just a town full Leeds fans!\" Now the real irony to all this is I'm from Wakefield! That said, everytime I get off the train in Donny, every buggers off to Sheffield, Leeds or Manchester. My Dad, not from Donny either, reckons the fanbse truly died when we dropped into the conference. Myself, am not so sure. What I am sure of is if town had a league side, I'd watch 'em now and again at least. Wakey, have, in recent times got a team together and I watch em now and again. If Donny played Wakey, I'd be torn and certainly wouldnt dis them even though I've supported Donny all my life. And that's the crux of it, locals don't appear to identify with the town and I just don't understand why.

I think our fanbase died in the early 70s- that's nearly 40 years ago. It will take a long time to build it up to the sort of levels at which we could sustain Championship football. However, if we simply allow Rovers to slip back into League One or Two we will give up any chance of building the fanbase any further- in fact, we'll probably losr what we've gained in the last six or seven years.

That's why I'm reluctant to accept the \"drop a division, consolidate and come back stronger\" option because I don't think it's feasible. Trouble is, the only alternative game in town seems to be the Willie McKay Plan. Rock and a hard place!

[SiBo]

Anyone heard what's happening with the community department under new regime? I've got a mate who has worked as a part-time coach with Rovers community and he said they've stopped the players taking part in school visits? If that's true how is that going to help develop a future fanbase?

[RobTheRover]

Not sure thats right, SiBo.  The School visits have been extremeley successful.

I'll add it to the list of Qs to put to JR when we get the meeting we've requested.

[Wellred]

I am 100% more confident that there will be a much greater emphasis on youngsters with Dean Saunders in charge.

[SiBo]

Because Willie McKay's plan is 100% conducive to youth development isnt it???? It's almost the polar opposite?!? But JR/DS said it didnt they Wellred so must be completely true, not just what the club wants you to hear.

[SiBo]

Rob - no disrespect but we can guess what he is going to tell you.......maybe ask someone else closer to day to day running of club?

[Wellred]

Because Willie McKay's plan is 100% conducive to youth development isnt it???? It's almost the polar opposite?!? But JR/DS said it didnt they Wellred so must be completely true, not just what the club wants you to hear.

Sorry I was under the impression Dean Saunders was the Manager.

I didn't realise Willie McKay was taking over every aspect of how the club is run. I presume you will be blaming him for how the commercial department is run next?

[SiBo]

This is going to be good....

Please explain to me how you think with McKay's plan in place a young player is ever going to get an opportunity in the Rovers first team? Why invest in the youth team when the club's strategy is very much about bringing in short-term stopgaps and the path to the Holy Grail of the first team for a young player will be seemingly blocked by foreign imports?

You may get the one odd exceptional talent come through the ranks but a steady stream of homegrown players?

I wait for the 'Well SOD never bothered' argument to be flung at me. But the thing is Wellred, I understand that is b****** too, something else we've been told in the past week that is not, on the face of it, the whole truth.

[DonnyNoel]

Because Willie McKay's plan is 100% conducive to youth development isnt it???? It's almost the polar opposite?!? But JR/DS said it didnt they Wellred so must be completely true, not just what the club wants you to hear.

I think we're mixing up short term and long term plans here. DS saying he wants to bring youth through is great, although I think it will be harder work (and more expensive) than he and some on here realise. But even if we get a top notch youth system, how long til we see any benefits of that? Do we currently have any 16 year olds knocking on the door of the first team? Or does DS mean we need to start from the bottom up and get some better 12/13/14 year olds in ready for 2016? There's nothing to say the two plans can't work together, at this point the immediate focus has to be staying in the division and for whatever reason we need new players for that. How we go about it is a huge debate obviously...

[Wellred]

This is going to be good....

Please explain to me how you think with McKay's plan in place a young player is ever going to get an opportunity in the Rovers first team? Why invest in the youth team when the club's strategy is very much about bringing in short-term stopgaps and the path to the Holy Grail of the first team for a young player will be seemingly blocked by foreign imports?

You may get the one odd exceptional talent come through the ranks but a steady stream of homegrown players?

I wait for the 'Well SOD never bothered' argument to be flung at me. But the thing is Wellred, I understand that is b****** too, something else we've been told in the past week that is not, on the face of it, the whole truth.

I really am amazed at how much you know about what was said and what is going to happen.

Can you let us all know where you get your information from. I am sure there are more than me intrigued?

[SiBo]

What you mean like the updated DRFC Centre of Excellence system that was introduced during the SOD era and is now starting to feed players into the Youth set-up? But it's easy for that to get brushed under carpet when club's got a point to make.

As you say Youth is a long-term plan, just because a young player that was good enough for the first team didn't come through during SOD's time here does that mean he wasn't interested?

The fact he ran the Youth team at Bournemouth that produced amongst others Brian Stock, James Hayter, Eddie Howe at Burnley surely tells you the value he places on Youth development??

[SiBo]

It's not what I know as fact Wellred I'll give you that, it's conclusions I've come to by looking more in depth at some of the things that have happened at the club in recent years and seeing that they simply don't fit in with some of the points coming out of the club recently. I go back to my constant point throughout this, I just want to believe the club is being honest because I cannot bear the thought of my club being left by the wayside after WM's two years.

[DonnyNoel]

What you mean like the updated DRFC Centre of Excellence system that was introduced during the SOD era and is now starting to feed players into the Youth set-up? But it's easy for that to get brushed under carpet when club's got a point to make.

As you say Youth is a long-term plan, just because a young player that was good enough for the first team didn't come through during SOD's time here does that mean he wasn't interested?

The fact he ran the Youth team at Bournemouth that produced amongst others Brian Stock, James Hayter, Eddie Howe at Burnley surely tells you the value he places on Youth development??

I don't know what you're saying as you're having two debates here. Are we discussing the youth set up under SOD which I have little knowledge of or intention to debate? Or your other comment that I responded to about how youth players will get a chance despite some perceiving the future as us felding a team of 11 mercenaries on 3 month contracts?

What's to say it won't all work? Again, I'm uneasy with this approach too and wouldn't have gone down that road but at this moment in time DS has come in and said he wants to bring youth through, wants to exploit the loan/short term contract market, and has already offered new deals to Sulli and Bennett.

That suggests to me he wants a mixture of the three in the long term - quality loans, quality youngsters coming through and a core of contracted players. It will take time to implement and achieve the right blend of course.

[FuzzyDuck]

First of all, I'm interested why we have to half the wage-bill.  I can buy that it's not sustainable for the directors at £8M but why does it suddenly need halving?  It went up at a rate of £1M a year from 2008/09 season to now.  Surely it would be better and more sustainable planning to reduce it £1M per year back down to below where it was before we were promoted.

That is unless there has been a dramatic development; an opportunity to get better terms on the stadium perhaps or a director removing his backing.

On the commercial side, we were dealt a bum-hand in the 70s when local teams like Leeds and the Sheffields were getting on the Telly regularly and we weren't.  They nicked many of our would-be fans because of this.  So now we need to work 5 times harder than Leeds and Sheffield to get bums on seats.  Sorry, but I don't even see rovers working AS hard as them.  We have got to get pricing right (it isn't ), we have to ensure that \"can't afford it\" is not a valid reason for fans not attending games.  This will require a lot of packages, more transparent pricing, fewer one-off offers etc.  JR needs to give up focusing on Leeds fans in Donny and instead move his attention to first Donny fans and then Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea etc.  how many of these would follow Donny as a second club?   Let's face it , they can get tickets to Donny.

For many reasons, the experiment can't work for us.  I worry about it being a real nail in our coffin. Far from improving things, it is deteriorating them by demotivating players; making us less, not more attractive to future talent and destroying that fantastic reputation we had.  O'Driscoll should not have been sacked.  He started 1-match since January with a reasonably full squad to choose from.  That was the Brighton match and of course he didn't finish it that way.

Whether you sack O'Driscoll or not, you maintain the principles and ethics that have served us so well.  Halving the wage budget  would cause most teams difficulties.  Especially if your halving from being one of the lowest in the league.  If we have to do this perhaps relegation does have to be accepted and prepared for.  If I was the chairman, I would do this rather than turn DRFC into a car boot sale.

[RoversAlias]

I might be mistaken here but I thought the general idea of this McKay plan was for him to bring in a load of older, more experienced players to couple with the younger players that would actually be our own? That's what some of the regime supporters seem to have been getting at anyway.

My main concern on this whole topic of the wage bill is...can we at all expect to be able to compete in the Championship with a £4million wage bill? Serious question.

[DearneValleyRover]

I might be mistaken here but I thought the general idea of this McKay plan was for him to bring in a load of older, more experienced players to couple with the younger players that would actually be our own? That's what some of the regime supporters seem to have been getting at anyway.

My main concern on this whole topic of the wage bill is...can we at all expect to be able to compete in the Championship with a £4million wage bill? Serious question.

That's how it has been sold to me and only time will tell if it works out.

[CusworthRovers]

We should have never got rid of Sean. He was perfect for our club and it's structure. He was a realist and openly said what he thinks of small clubs like ours and what business model is needed for a club like ours. He knew our position in the food chain. Personally in the bigger picture, grand scheme, long term thinking, I never saw anything wrong with the, what is now, the old structure

John is the eternal optimist and he has facts to prove him right for daring to dream. However I think in these current times this ultimate dream of Prem football and the plan/model in which to achieve this may be a step to far at this time in our lives. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not liking what I'm witnessing on and off the pitch.....but don't worry John I'll still be there and 110% behind DS and Rovers. It will eventually be more a question of how much I'll be there as time moves on.

[Dare to dream!]

If we cut the wage bill then we simply wont be able to compete unless we had someone like SOD in charge and i dont think Saunders/Mckay is capable of that the way player are coming in. We have to look to cut costs and increase profit in other ways. first of all buy the stadium we can make profit from it from it i belive that will suddeny turn around the finances even if we make around 1 million of it each year we dont have to pay rent and its only 2 million the diretors have to put in. Secondly keep prices the same but for the 'lesser' games like against teams such as Watford do special family tickets, buy a ticket and get a free pint or pie this will bring more people in because it value for money but for this to work we need to market it so everyone in donny is aware of the offers because i never see advertisment for games

[albie]

Looks like the Premiership greed machine have stitched up youth development as well, if this piece is correct;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2011/10/football_league_votes_in_favou.html#299200

Perhaps picking up players from the academies of the bigger clubs is the way it is going to go.

[Pintolager]

What was Blackpool's secret for getting into the Premiership? They had low crowds and at least I don't think they broke the bank to get there. Could we have done something similar?