Partygate probe chief Sue Gray offered top job by Labour leader Starmer

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes BB.

And those honest, unbiased people clearly choose to forget that the Durham Police held a detailed investigation into that and concluded that it was a perfectly acceptable example of eating and drinking whole working.

Strange that honest, unbiased people would choose to do that, but I guess it takes all sorts...

[wilts rover]

Branton.

And how many of those Mail readers do you think were likely to be Labour supporters?

Irrelevant. Labour has to overturn a 80 seat majority plus Tory gerrymandering and dirty tricks (e.g. voter ID) to get into power.

The question is how many potential swing voters (i.e. who voted Tory in 2019 but potentially may vote Labour) see this headline or this story. And what is their response?

Not everybody follows politics as closely as you or I. Not everybody will know all the ins and outs of Partygate. Not everybody shares your strong political bias either.

It is wrong and wholly naive to believe that only the "pig thick" wavering swing voter would react negatively towards Labour on seeing this story.

I would guess if they don't follow politics that closely they wont give a monkeys who Labour's chief of staff is. But they will remember the photos of Johnson at the parties and the Queen on her own at her husbands funeral.

And there ain't many swing voters read the Daily Heil. In fact there ain't that many people reading it all now, they are making people redundant due to falling sales.

There are many unbiased, honest people who will also remember the hypocrisy of seeing photos of Starmer brazenly supping beer at Beergate.

They will also remember that the Police held investigations into Johnson, Sunak, Starmer and the gatherings they attended. And concluded on the evidence presented the ones Johnson and Sunak attended were illegal (against the rules they themselves had set) whilst Starmer had done nothing wrong according to the rules.

Presumably being honest and unbiased they will accept the police's decision?

As you appear to be in contact with them - what do these honest unbiased people think to the photos of Johnson at the parties published in the report this week?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Come the next election most won't care about any of that as so long will have passed. I'd expect most will care about their jobs, pounds in their bank and a quality NHS.

Given the issues with all of those so far Sunak has an almost impossible job to remain PM after the election.  Can't be often a party in this country has had power for over 20 years.

[Bentley Bullet]

Yes BB.

And those honest, unbiased people clearly choose to forget that the Durham Police held a detailed investigation into that and concluded that it was a perfectly acceptable example of eating and drinking whole working.

Strange that honest, unbiased people would choose to do that, but I guess it takes all sorts...

Honest, unbiased people wouldn't find it strange.

[SydneyRover]

I think the the thousands and thousands of people that lost family members and friends will remember an incompetent government who's members partied, lied about it and tried to cover it up and bluff it's way through.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes BB.

And those honest, unbiased people clearly choose to forget that the Durham Police held a detailed investigation into that and concluded that it was a perfectly acceptable example of eating and drinking whole working.

Strange that honest, unbiased people would choose to do that, but I guess it takes all sorts...

Honest, unbiased people wouldn't find it strange.

Like you would know.

[Bentley Bullet]

Yes BB.

And those honest, unbiased people clearly choose to forget that the Durham Police held a detailed investigation into that and concluded that it was a perfectly acceptable example of eating and drinking whole working.

Strange that honest, unbiased people would choose to do that, but I guess it takes all sorts...

Honest, unbiased people wouldn't find it strange.

Like you would know.

Correct. You won't find anything Dishonest or biased that I've said, unless, of course, you want to continue to claim that my attempts at levelling the balance of your dishonest bias as bias on my part!

......... And you will!

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

So Starmer won't answer the question on when she was first approached.  It's looking a bit awkward for them at the minute, can't deny that.

[ncRover]

So Starmer won't answer the question on when she was first approached.  It's looking a bit awkward for them at the minute, can't deny that.

Here’s the video

https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1632672778808709120?s=46&t=Uj9lS9cW2ksdznjWwHqrkQ

[Not Now Kato]

Of course the alternative is that the Mail editorial staff know their readers are too pig thick to figure out for themselves what a f**king stupid headline this is.

Fixed that for you BST

[belton rover]

That’s an embarrassing interview.
He’s terrible at evading the question, which I would have thought was first on the pass list at politician school.
Johnson was/is a convincing liar. Let’s hope if Starmer does become PM, he doesn’t tell any porkies, because if there’s one thing worse than a convincing liar, it’s an unconvincing one.

[Bentley Bullet]

This is a clear indication of how far out of his depth Starmer will be when he's PM. He's been drowning in the relatively shallow end in his role as the opposition leader since his appointment.

[ravenrover]

I'll just leave this here

[scawsby steve]

I'll just leave this here

That's right, Raven. But wouldn't it be better for people to be able to say "that's what the Tories do", rather than being persuaded by events to say "they're all the same".

All the Labour supporting journalists I've listened to on Sky News over the last few nights have said that Keith's move was "unwise".

[normal rules]

Interesting comments on this.
Many of which are talking about the relationship between truth and politics. Which, let’s be honest, is complex.
There are 4 truths we perceive as humans.
Objective Truth is what exists and can be proved in this physicality. (The sun moves across the sky each day.)
Normative Truth is what we, as a group, agree is true. (English speakers agreed to use the word day to name that time when the sky is lit by the sun.)
Subjective Truth is how the individual sees or experiences the world. (Today is a good day for me.)
Complex Truth recognizes the validity of all those truths and allows you to focus on the one is most useful at any given time.

The media machine do reference objective truths, but they give very heavy weight to normative and subjective truth. There will be many people who read the sun, the Mail, the express et Al, and believe what they read. At the least it helps them form opinions. The objective truth becomes less relevant . I’ll let you all make up your mind which truth you follow, politically.

[danumdon]

So Starmer won't answer the question on when she was first approached.  It's looking a bit awkward for them at the minute, can't deny that.

Here’s the video

https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1632672778808709120?s=46&t=Uj9lS9cW2ksdznjWwHqrkQ

This is very damaging for Starmer and will be used by opposition to portray him as evasive and conniving.

I'd be quite sure that Labour will have anyalised the eruptions from this to the tenth degree and IF they could row back from it would have by now done so, the fact they haven't makes it look like this avenue is a road to go down against him.

Very unwise from him, demonstrating like others have said a lack of nimble thought and sounding so unconvincing makes us all doubt to what degree he would be a sound PM at the top of his game for the country as well as himself and his party.

[drfchound]

Interesting that Starmer backed Joy Allen for the Police and Crime Commissioner post.
No wonder he didn’t need to worry about beergate.
#allthesame?

[SydneyRover]

This is a clear indication of how far out of his depth Starmer will be when he's PM. He's been drowning in the relatively shallow end in his role as the opposition leader since his appointment.

More an indication of how desperate some are to try to bring him down aye, maybe there should be a parliamentary inquiry or a RC into his behaviour?

[SydneyRover]

Now this is a meeting

''Opposition parties are calling for the prime minister to explain a meeting with Sue Gray over her report into the partygate saga.

It has emerged the civil servant and Boris Johnson met several weeks ago - but there are conflicting accounts of what was discussed.

A spokesperson for the Sue Gray investigation has disputed a government source's assertion the pair discussed including photographs in her report.

The BBC has now been told the discussion about photographs "did not happen", although photos are likely to be included in the final report.

Labour has suggested that the "secret meeting" could damage confidence in the process.

Ms Gray is set to publish her full report into lockdown gatherings in and around Downing Street in 2020 and 2021 next week.

According to the senior government source, the pair discussed including photos in the report, and that Ms Gray initiated the meeting.

But it is now understood that while Ms Gray sent the calendar invite for the meeting, the original idea for it came from Downing St.

In a conversation with a senior official in No 10, it was suggested to Ms Gray that she might offer an update on her work to the prime minister. She accepted that idea and sent the invite to ensure an appointment was put in both their diaries''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61531971

[SydneyRover]

FOI into the meeting between johnson and Sue Gray whilst she was inquiring into partygate:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/meeting_with_sue_gray

''Dear Prime Minister's Office,

Thanks for your response to our request for internal review ref IR2022/14359. It fails to answer any of the points we raised. It fails to explain what you have done with these minutes since the date of the press briefing which confirmed their existence along with your desire to keep them from the public. It fails to explain your desire to bypass the Freedom of Information Act and disrespect the authority of both the Information Commissioner's Office by acting to conceal or destroy these minutes prior to allowing the ICO and the courts to rule on whether they should be released in full or part or not at all. It is simply not your decision to make. The matter will now be referred back to the ICO where we again will recommend a Section 77 investigation. You are reminded it is a criminal offence to conceal or destroy materials requested under the Freedom of Information Act and those responsible will be dealt with.

Furthermore we are not satisfied that the communication you made to the ICO in September to avert court action constitutes a 'substantive response'.

Yours faithfully,

Amanda Hart
for Stop UK lies and Corruption''

[SydneyRover]

Moderately loud dance music has been reportedly heard coming from mark sedwell's gaff

[BillyStubbsTears]

Anyway, as I say, if the Labour lead has halved in the next set of polls, you're right and I'm wrong.

Two polls have been conducted since this non-issue blew up.

Labour's lead is down 1% in one and up 1% in the other.

Wipe the froth from your lips and stand down chaps.

[albie]

Complete drivel, BST.

A generalised poll cannot isolate for a single factor, and depending upon how it was constructed would only give a broad indication of support within a range of uncertainty.

There is no predictive content of polling at this point in the political cycle, either for a distant GE or as a monitor of a particular measure or controversy.

Repeating this nonsense is simply an attempt to mislead people, there is no value whatsoever in these comments.

The Gray issue has little bearing on long term public sentiment.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ok, so the foam keeps coming.

My point was, Albie, that despite some of our contributors here saying Starmer had shot himself in various extremities, there's been no effect whatsoever on poll figures. Unlike the very large moves following say, the first news about Partygate (sudden change from typical polls being level to Labour being 6-8% ahead) or the Kamikwasi Budget (typical Labour lead rising from 10% to 20-25%).

The initial polling suggests that the Sue Gray issue hasn't so much as made a ripple by comparison with those events.  So, much as it will upset you, we're currently still looking at a very high Labour lead.

[normal rules]

if/when labour get in power, will we get huge public sector pay rises?

[scawsby steve]

if/when labour get in power, will we get huge public sector pay rises?

Not a chance, NR, nor will we see utilities taken back into public ownership.

In fact, very little will change.

[normal rules]

same shit, different coating then?
but labour supporters will be happy, aye?

[drfchound]

Well, apart from honesty and integrity at the top of course.
Just think, no scandals or wrong doing by MPs.
Off topic will become redundant.

[normal rules]

Well, apart from honesty and integrity at the top of course.
Just think, no scandals or wrong doing by MPs.
Off topic will become redundant.

laughing emoji

[Bentley Bullet]

if/when labour get in power, will we get huge public sector pay rises?

Yep, Starmer will make everyone rich and then everyone will go on strike in protest at all the wealth tax they're paying!