So who is to blame for this shambles?

[Albert Trousers]

Saunders?
Tactically inept, out of his depth & in my opinion needs to leave sooner rather than later. How much are his hands tied though?
Does he even pick the team? Sam Hird (i'm not his biggest fan) has been outstanding when he has played but DS doesn't seem to want to play him.

The McKay project?
Hasn't really worked, maybe a good idea in principle & it's been good to see the likes of EHD in a Rovers shirt, on the flip side I thought
the days of the Goulon's putting the shirt on had gone with the demise of the Richardson era.

The Players?
Some here only briefly do they give a f**k if we go down? they leave & get a signing fee elsewhere, that said Beye & EHD seem the only
ones to care on occasion.
The old guard have been conspicous by there absence many times (Copps looks like he threw the towel in months ago)

JR & Board
Not going to blame them for getting rid of S'OD-at the time I thought it was the right decision,looking back maybe not (at least in terms of the footbal played)
There's no doubt JR has the best interests of the club at heart but he more than anyone must see the divide in the club.
His absense from our TV screens & radios speaks volumes for me.

So where do we go from here?
We lasted longer in the Championship than I thought & until recently haven't looked out of place, watching th FLS this morning a seeing the togetherness of the
Torquay players made me wonder what the coach trips to away games are like at DRFC, we need some of what Torquay have.
Personally I'd look at appointing someone like Martin Allen, a proper man manager (& a bit crazy to boot!) get some team spirit back and have a crack at League 1,
Allen's Notts County side looked goo at the KM in the cup and won at a canter, he has had success and seemed to improve every team he has managed. He has left clubs
for bigger teams and it has bitten him on the arse & he may think twice about doing that in the future.
We need the fun back in the club.

[Retdon1]

Totally agree about martin allen becoming next manager, saunders hasnt got a clue and not many mangers would want the rovers job but allen who is out of work i am sure would be able to do a good job here.

[drfc1951]

Your right not many would want the job if they read this forum.

[Red wizard]

Not M Allan. Other than that a very good post.

[Wellred]

Martin Allen is out of work for a good reason................Nobody wants him.

[The Beast]

Who's to blame???
Well we've got relegated from the Championship, well not yet but probably very shortly. Is it such a travesty? Do we need to apportion blame? No other team has probably had such a good decade. We're finally going down, do people expect us to continually over achieve and punch above our weight for ever? All good things come to an end, League 1 is not the end of the world, its a better place than where I've spent most of my Rovers supporting life! As long as we don't over stretch ourselves financially and we still have a club.

[timdrfc]

It's not the manager who can't defend , pass the ball ,can't commit in the tackle ,gives the ball away , can't score for toffee, to slow on the ball etc
How anyone can say DS is clueless wants to really  get a grip , the man knows more about football than anyone on here check his record if your too young to know.
Whats the difference from our transfer policy  than any other football club ?
Look how many loan players Wednesday have & they all have agents , difference is that there near top & were at the bottom & people need a scape goat .....bring on Dean Saunders!

[DearneValleyRover]

The problems we have surfaced at the beginning of 2011, but the seeds got sown earlier than that, letting Paul Green go then paying lesser quality players wages we refused to pay him, letting Welens leave over wages then wasting them on loan after loan, not progressing youth, no reserve team, a complet lack of scouting lower league talent. Take your pick but blaming DS or WM is not only shortsighted but inaccurate and I'm not a fan of either.

[deebee]

Well I blame the government. They seem to be getting the blame for everything else I mean they told a woman to decant petrol in her kitchen into a glass jug for her foul mouthed daughter while she had the gas hob lit ,didn't they. Then it was their fault a school girl missed lessons because her mum didn't fill up with petrol to take her to school. So lets all blame them shall we.

[wilts rover]

I blame Sam Hird. I've missed Benaldo, haven't you?

[donnyroversfc]

I blame El-Hadji Diouf!

I don't want him anywhere near our football club, he's an utter t**t!!!!!

*Diouf signs*

DIOUF is the BEST player EVER to play for Doncaster Rovers!! He's absolutely ace!!!

We ALL miss Benaldo.

[jonnydog]

Where has he gone anyway?

[donnyroversfc]

Where has he gone anyway?

Moved into a new pad with Sam Hird and hasn't had time to get broadband set up yet IIRC.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There's a few other things not mentioned.  Our ageing squad is clearly not as good as it was previously (Oster and Hayter an example of that).

O'Driscoll made a mistake in the summer by not addressing the clear weaknesses we had at the time and accumulating far too many players who would never be good enough for us this season.

The squad had a losing mentality right from the start and that still is yet to change.

Saunders hasn't properly changed things around in the way he perhaps should have.

The fans - they are also a problem.  Too many wanted us to fail and that's created a poisonous at times atmosphere at the very time we should be getting behind them.  Also they didn't back the club in terms of attendances, that's half the fans and half the pricing structure.

Tonnes of things wrong, but to simply blame the new manager is wrong, he inherited a dire situation but clearly he hasn't improved on that.

[Bristol Red Rover]

The fans - they are also a problem.  Too many wanted us to fail and that's created a poisonous at times atmosphere at the very time we should be getting behind them.

[wilts rover]

Where has he gone anyway?

Moved into a new pad with Sam Hird and hasn't had time to get broadband set up yet IIRC.

Dunno but reading your posts droning on and on about the same old subjects - you dont half sound like him, hmmmm

[donnyroversfc]

Where has he gone anyway?

Moved into a new pad with Sam Hird and hasn't had time to get broadband set up yet IIRC.

Dunno but reading your posts droning on and on about the same old subjects - you dont half sound like him, hmmmm

 I am Benaldo and i claim my £5!

[donnyproletarian]

Saunders?
Tactically inept, out of his depth & in my opinion needs to leave sooner rather than later. How much are his hands tied though?
Does he even pick the team? Sam Hird (i'm not his biggest fan) has been outstanding when he has played but DS doesn't seem to want to play him.

The McKay project?
Hasn't really worked, maybe a good idea in principle & it's been good to see the likes of EHD in a Rovers shirt, on the flip side I thought
the days of the Goulon's putting the shirt on had gone with the demise of the Richardson era.

The Players?
Some here only briefly do they give a fcuk if we go down? they leave & get a signing fee elsewhere, that said Beye & EHD seem the only
ones to care on occasion.
The old guard have been conspicous by there absence many times (Copps looks like he threw the towel in months ago)

JR & Board
Not going to blame them for getting rid of S'OD-at the time I thought it was the right decision,looking back maybe not (at least in terms of the footbal played)
There's no doubt JR has the best interests of the club at heart but he more than anyone must see the divide in the club.
His absense from our TV screens & radios speaks volumes for me.

So where do we go from here?
We lasted longer in the Championship than I thought & until recently haven't looked out of place, watching th FLS this morning a seeing the togetherness of the
Torquay players made me wonder what the coach trips to away games are like at DRFC, we need some of what Torquay have.
Personally I'd look at appointing someone like Martin Allen, a proper man manager (& a bit crazy to boot!) get some team spirit back and have a crack at League 1,
Allen's Notts County side looked goo at the KM in the cup and won at a canter, he has had success and seemed to improve every team he has managed. He has left clubs
for bigger teams and it has bitten him on the arse & he may think twice about doing that in the future.
We need the fun back in the club.

Instead of asking whose to blame lets turn this question on its head and ask whose to praise for keeping us in the championship for 4 years when the rest of the football world has been tipping us for relagation .Well done SOD , JR and Saunders for having a go.RTID

[DRFCSouth]

Who is to blame? It's difficult, I look at the McKay experiment and it doesn't look too different to what we have done in previous seasons. All we have done this season is take people on loan, albeit in a slightly different manner. In previous seasons we have taken many players on loan who in reality have helped keep us in the championship. We had Billy on loan, Shackell, and each season we can probably count at least 5 or 6 loans. It wasn't going to work every season and with an inability to freshen up the squad at the start of each season this struggle was always going to happen.
I think JR needs some help at the helm, this may be unlikely to happen to what is traditionally an unfashionable club. But for a long time he has given us the dream, he has lived up to his promises. Life in league one need not be seen as disastrous. There are many 'big' teams in L1 now giving us some tasty games to get to still.

[mjdgreg]

I blame madmick50 for not hanging around to offer his expert advice to Deano and JR. I'm sure we would have stayed up if they had been able to tap into his vast business and team building knowledge.

[donnyroversfc]

I blame madmick50 for not hanging around to offer his expert advice to Deano and JR. I'm sure we would have stayed up if they had been able to tap into his vast business and team building knowledge.

Is there any truth in the rumours that madmick's 'business knowledge' stretches only as far as being a self-employed window cleaner/part-time gambler?

Also another little rumour i heard is that madmick's 'team building knowledge' was actually just him and his 2 mates going for a weekend at PGL?

Can you ask him if he can confirm or deny these rumours please?

[Red wizard]

Mick how are you mate? I have taken some of micks advice onboard. Started my own company up. I am going to sell conkers.

[Mr1Croft]

In all honesty, and no I haven't gone mad (although I have no scientific evidence to prove that statement) I blame Jason Shackell, and I blame Barnsley.

The 2009/10 season was our greatest season in English football since the early 1900s. We finished 32nd in the Country, probably our best ever for a long long time, and that was down to key players, in particular Woods, Oster, Sharp, JET, Copps, Wilson, Shackell, Ward, Roberts, O'Connor, Sullivan. We lost Woods to injury, Roberts moved on to Derby, Billy, JET, Shackell and Ward all returned to their parent clubs. Had we managed to hold onto them for the following season I think we would still be bottom of the league and looking relegated. But I don't think it would be in this league.

We only managed to bring back Billy. We were in dire need of shelling out big money for a decent Championship centre-back and instead we got Billy. I'm not saying that Billy wasn't worth every penny but I think it was more of a case that he was the hero that the Rovers deserved, but not the one it needed.

We rode our luck for the first half of last season and their were signs (Reading and Leicester away) that our defence would crumble under pressure and by the time Matt Kilgallon was swooped in (a move that made many of believe the play-offs were possible) the damage was already done, our squad was being weakened by injury and because our first XI was only just good enough to play in this division (bar a few individuals) the 'reserve' players were never going to be much better. As they say the rest is history.

In my eyes the players we lost at the end of the 2009/10 season (JET, Ward, Shackell, Roberts) needed replacing, and instead we only got Friend who ended up filling the boots of 3 of those players (playing both LB and CB).

Which brings me back to my opening statement, had Shackell shown more respect for us instead of running into Barnsley to cash in his signing-on bonus would we be in this situation? I don't think at the time their was a better chance to sign a better player for that position. I suppose we will never know but I am of the belief that is was that act of greed by not only Shackell but our neighbors Barnsley condemned us to the decline that followed.

Another reason to hate the Dingles, and Shackell of course...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mr Croft.

I agree with you pretty much 100%. The rot set in when we lost control of the defensive strengths that we'd had in the first 2 years in this division.

Back in 08-09 and 09-10, we had an excellent defensive record. In 08-09, we conceded 1.15 goals per game. Even when we were in dreadful form during the first half of that season, we were still defensively quite tight, conceding around 1.1-1.2 goals per game on average. That is damn good form, and puts you in the top 8-10 of defences in the division. We were a little looser in 09-10, but still had the 11th best defensive record in the division, conceding 1.28 goals per game.

By 10-11, things started to get entirely unbalanced. As you say, we'd replaced Mills with Shackell/Ward in 09-10, but we simply didn't address the centre-back and left back holes in the following season. So we started shipping goals big style. Even before the injuries struck and when our overall form was good in the first half of 10-11, we were leaking goals at an alarming rate. Between Aug-Dec 2010, we conceded 35 goals in 21 games - 1.66 goals per game which was the 5th worst record in the division. That was fine as long as Sharp was fit and in form - we scored almost as many as we conceded. (NB: The free-scoring/free-conceding form of that time actually gives the lie to those who say that O'Driscoll's sides were always dull and boring.)

But when the injuries struck, we went to pieces. Over the last 25 games of 10-11 we conceded 46 goals and scored only 22.

We've carried on at a similar rate this season when Sharp hasn't been available.

You hit the nail on the head Mr Croft. I said at the time we signed Sharp that the one and only reason why that could be a sane decision was if we were going to go balls out for a top 6 place.

And it came damn-close to working. By early March 2010, we were looking like making a run on the rails for the play-offs. By Nov 11, we were a last-minute equaliser against Swansea away from breaking into the top 5 with 40% of the season gone.

But it didn't work. We couldn't hold it together. And with hindsight, it was a gamble. It put all our eggs in one Billy Sharp shaped basket and left us hoping that he (and the meagre cover that we had in other positions) stayed fit. It could have given us the jackpot, but instead it left us with the current predicament.

That's life folks. Maybe we could have played it softly-softly. Maybe we could have made do with a decent, honest, unspectacular journeymen throughout the side and aimed for respectable, safe lower table mediocrity. But that would never be Ryan's way. With hindsight, although we maybe didn't even realise it at the time, we shot for the moon and were hobbled by bad luck.

We've had the upswing. We saw some wonderful football and lived some wonderful moments. In a not-very-different parallel universe, with a couple fewer injuries and the odd moment of luck, we'd be living the life that Swansea now have.

But (unless you are the sort of bell end who wants your football with a guarantee of success) part of the life of a fan is dealing with both directions of the pendulum's swing. If you're a genuine football fan, you now take a big deep breath, deal with your pain.

And for fcuk's sake, stop babbying.

[mjdgreg]

Mick how are you mate? I have taken some of micks advice onboard. Started my own company up. I am going to sell conkers.

You must be bonkers to start a conkers business. madmick50 says it is a seasonal business and will only ever be good for one month of the year. His advice is to stay on the dole as coming off benefits for such a short period is not worth the hassle and will involve you in a lot of form filling which you will probably struggle with.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Good posts BST and Mr1Croft. I think all that kind of sums up the last couple of years we've had. To stand a chance at play-off fantasy, we had to have someone like BS. I think it was worth trying for despite it landing us in a slide. And in the process, despite whatever secrets or conspiracy theories Bob G is party to, its not landed us in a terminal slide. It could be difficult but a few seasons of rebuilding will no doubt be the path whatever league we're in. JR has more experience and with his wings a little burnt he may play the game of leader of the club a little different - though leopards and spots  One thing he won't do is allow the club to crumble

[mjdgreg]

Mr Croft.

I agree with you pretty much 100%. The rot set in when we lost control of the defensive strengths that we'd had in the first 2 years in this division.

Back in 08-09 and 09-10, we had an excellent defensive record. In 08-09, we conceded 1.15 goals per game. Even when we were in dreadful form during the first half of that season, we were still defensively quite tight, conceding around 1.1-1.2 goals per game on average. That is damn good form, and puts you in the top 8-10 of defences in the division. We were a little looser in 09-10, but still had the 11th best defensive record in the division, conceding 1.28 goals per game.

By 10-11, things started to get entirely unbalanced. As you say, we'd replaced Mills with Shackell/Ward in 09-10, but we simply didn't address the centre-back and left back holes in the following season. So we started shipping goals big style. Even before the injuries struck and when our overall form was good in the first half of 10-11, we were leaking goals at an alarming rate. Between Aug-Dec 2010, we conceded 35 goals in 21 games - 1.66 goals per game which was the 5th worst record in the division. That was fine as long as Sharp was fit and in form - we scored almost as many as we conceded. (NB: The free-scoring/free-conceding form of that time actually gives the lie to those who say that O'Driscoll's sides were always dull and boring.)

But when the injuries struck, we went to pieces. Over the last 25 games of 10-11 we conceded 46 goals and scored only 22.

We've carried on at a similar rate this season when Sharp hasn't been available.

You hit the nail on the head Mr Croft. I said at the time we signed Sharp that the one and only reason why that could be a sane decision was if we were going to go balls out for a top 6 place.

And it came damn-close to working. By early March 2010, we were looking like making a run on the rails for the play-offs. By Nov 11, we were a last-minute equaliser against Swansea away from breaking into the top 5 with 40% of the season gone.

But it didn't work. We couldn't hold it together. And with hindsight, it was a gamble. It put all our eggs in one Billy Sharp shaped basket and left us hoping that he (and the meagre cover that we had in other positions) stayed fit. It could have given us the jackpot, but instead it left us with the current predicament.

That's life folks. Maybe we could have played it softly-softly. Maybe we could have made do with a decent, honest, unspectacular journeymen throughout the side and aimed for respectable, safe lower table mediocrity. But that would never be Ryan's way. With hindsight, although we maybe didn't even realise it at the time, we shot for the moon and were hobbled by bad luck.

We've had the upswing. We saw some wonderful football and lived some wonderful moments. In a not-very-different parallel universe, with a couple fewer injuries and the odd moment of luck, we'd be living the life that Swansea now have.

But (unless you are the sort of bell end who wants your football with a guarantee of success) part of the life of a fan is dealing with both directions of the pendulum's swing. If you're a genuine football fan, you now take a big deep breath, deal with your pain.

And for fcuk's sake, stop babbying.

Excellent post silly Billy.

[mjdgreg]

Is there any truth in the rumours that madmick's 'business knowledge' stretches only as far as being a self-employed window cleaner/part-time gambler?

Also another little rumour i heard is that madmick's 'team building knowledge' was actually just him and his 2 mates going for a weekend at PGL?

Can you ask him if he can confirm or deny these rumours please?

madmick50 has confirmed that he is still doing his paper round (morning and evening). He also manages to fit in being an Avon representative and has just recently branched out into the Betterware franchise. The professional gambling is something he does for fun but has led to him having a very lucrative lifestyle.

As far as his team building knowledge is concerned he learnt all this by studying at night school and gaining his professional diploma. He then implemented this knowledge to great effect by running a local Sunday League team. In his first season in charge they managed to win every game in which they had more possession and attempts on goal than the opposition.

[eastender]

Which brings me back to my opening statement, had Shackell shown more respect for us instead of running into Barnsley to cash in his signing-on bonus would we be in this situation? I don't think at the time their was a better chance to sign a better player for that position. I suppose we will never know but I am of the belief that is was that act of greed by not only Shackell but our neighbors Barnsley condemned us to the decline that followed.

Another reason to hate the Dingles, and Shackell of course...

Maybe your being a tad harsh on Shackell , He wasn't a free agent Barnsley Payed in the region of £500k to Wolves for him.
So if DRFC Couldn't or wouldn't match the fee plus wages then it would have been out of his hands as Wolves are entitled to get the best price for him.

P.S. He didn't show Barnsley any respect either, he soon up sticks and left when Derby came knocking .

P.P.S. I hate Shackell as well.

[The Red Baron]

I think on another thread I posted that the rot set in when we started chasing the Premiership dream/ dollar. However, I think BST is right in his analysis. John Ryan and the board must have concluded around 2009 that we couldn't be financially viable in the Championship (because of the attendances/ ST sales) and the only way was to go for broke. Blackpool and Swansea managed to achieve this- we didn't- but I can't see our fate would have been much different if we'd tried to do like Preston did for years and muddle along at this level.

Now comes the reckoning and I have no problem with going back to League One. I just hope there are plans in place so we can cope at that level next season.