Heat Pumps

[Superspy]

Yeah, as you saw from my numbers on my Solar FAQ thread, they do better than you expect over winter

[albie]

Octopus now offering heat pumps fitted from £2500, cheaper than British Gas at £3k;
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/octopus-energy-heat-pump-boiler-energy-british-gas-b1059668.html

That will be for the smaller unit I expect.
If you live in a mansion, expect a higher cost.

New tariff for solar, batteries and EV owners as well;
https://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/octopus_energy_launches_new_combined_solar_battery_and_ev_tariff

It will be interesting to see if prices fall lower than this offer.

[Superspy]

That's a really interesting tariff and now has me sat here wondering if it's worth me shelling out for a 4th battery for my solar and switching onto it and away from my eco-7/Agile outgoing combo. Hmmmmm.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Been thinking about the heat pumps again in light of my experience with panels and batteries. Here's some top of the head calcs.

Assume your peak gas CH usage is 100kWh/day. That's £10/day at current rates.

With a Efficiency Factor 4 heat pump, you'd need 25kWh of electric to run that. That's £8.33/day at current rates (33p/kWh). So there's already a saving, but not very much and it would take a long time to pay back even the current subsidised heat pump installation costs.

What about if you use Octopus Agile and charge up batteries overnight at low tariffs?

You still need to get 25kWh a day for your heat pump. Assume you get 1/4 of that direct from the grid overnight at the low rates, and 3kWh from solar panels during the day. That means you'd need about 16kWh of battery storage for the rest of your requirement. That'd be about £5-7k, plus the cost of the pump installation, say £8-9k upfront investment.

With Octopus Agile, I reckon recently the average low tariff figure has been about 24p/kWh. So that would be £5.25 per day (24p times (25kWh minus the 3kWh assumed to come from the panels) or a £4.75/day saving on standard tariffs.

Assume that rate of heating was used for 150 days per year - that would be £700 per year saving. It'd take > 10 years to pay back the original investment. But the batteries would probably need replacing after 10 years, so it wouldn't quite ever break even.

But there's another Octopus tariff, Intelligent Go, only available to people with an EV charge point. That has a guaranteed overnight rate of 10p/kWh. If that was available to heat pump owners, the cost to run the pump would be £2.20 per day - £7.80 saving per day or £1170 per year assuming 150 days of heating. That means the initial investment would be paid off after 7-8 years. That starts to make sense.

[albie]

The Octopus tariff is available to people with a heat pump, as long as they have an EV (with charger) as well.
Small detail, but an important point.

So do you actually have to currently own an EV, or if you have a charger installed (for future proofing) like many new builds, are you eligible.

You could ask Octopus, I suppose.

With your calculations BST, keep in mind the claimed efficiency is on the up.
Samsung now claiming 5 to 1 for their low noise model:
https://samsung-climatesolutions.com/en-gb/b2c/heat-pump-solutions/heating/mono-ht-quiet.html

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

I'd jump at getting an EV charger installed to get the Go rate, but I don't have off road parking. My understanding is that installers won't put in a charge point unless you have off road parking.

[albie]

BST,

What I'm saying is that others could, if they had a mind to!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Agreed Albie.

I'm just pointing out that there will be many cases where that won't work. It needs a more far sighted national policy to encourage uptake.

[SydneyRover]

QI:

''While the share of electric vehicles and induction stoves sales may be growing, they still represent a sliver of all cars and stoves sold respectively. US heat pump sales, though, surpassed those of gas furnaces last year as the tech of choice to keep homes comfortable''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/11/heat-pump-revolution-what-you-need-to-know

[albie]

Looks like heat pump installations are now taking off, after a slowish start;
https://eciu.net/media/press-releases/2023/governments-heat-pump-scheme-could-run-out-of-vouchers-as-demand-rises

Anybody pondering the change should get in before the subsidy runs out, although I reckon they will extend support.

[albie]

Interesting update on heat pump technology in the Torygraph;
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/08/22/heat-pump-technology-soon-hot-even-britons-tempted/

The BlueHeart pump sounds promising.

[albie]

Now that the grant has increased to £7.5k per installation, the price wars are up and running.
From £500, depending upon property and other measures needed.

Octopus are making their own brand in NI, available December:
https://octopus.energy/get-a-heat-pump/

British Gas;
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/home-services/boilers-and-heating/air-source-heat-pumps.html

[albie]

Which magazine with an update on installation and running costs, with new tariffs now available;
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/a-heat-pump-might-be-a-lot-cheaper-than-you-think-heres-how-aSx7P0B2hOHW

Worth looking at if your gas boiler is at the end of its useful life, or you are thinking of an energy makeover.

[SydneyRover]

QI

''You can walk around in a T-shirt’: how Norway brought heat pumps in from the cold.

Device installed in two-thirds of households of country whose experience suggests switching to greener heating can be done''

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/23/norway-heat-pumps-cold-heating

[Sprotyrover]

I have one thanks to Albies posts on here.

[Colin C No.3]

Have you tried setting alight to half a dozen tyres in the middle of the road?

Doesn’t half give some heat out + you’re helping the environment out by stopping geezers waste dumping the tyres!

Thinking of inviting David Attenborough round for a street party. Reckon he might bring some interesting ‘meat’ for the inevitable BBQ that might follow…..upwind of course. You don’t get to watch the amount of survival programmes as I do without picking up some knowledge.

[DRFC_AjA]

Anyone gone down the route of electric boiler that charges either via solar or cheaper overnight rates? Seems like an interesting development in technology

[DRFC_AjA]

QI

''You can walk around in a T-shirt’: how Norway brought heat pumps in from the cold.

Device installed in two-thirds of households of country whose experience suggests switching to greener heating can be done''

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/23/norway-heat-pumps-cold-heating

You mean to say the British media, and some of the population,  who are constantly negative about anything new or change in genreal are wrong? And it actually works. Who knew    I saw in the article that uK are the lowest adopters in Europe. Surpirse surprise. Dig t coal up lad

[SydneyRover]

Anyone gone down the route of electric boiler that charges either via solar or cheaper overnight rates? Seems like an interesting development in technology

You should read the whole thread it's not long and there is useful info, except for the usual suspect trying to make it political.

[albie]

Anyone gone down the route of electric boiler that charges either via solar or cheaper overnight rates? Seems like an interesting development in technology

You are talking about the ZEB, the zero emissions boiler.
https://www.tepeo.com/the-zeb

Unfortunately this does not qualify for the £7.5k government grant, although that may change.
They say they are working on a new version to replace a combi boiler, so waiting for that.

A lot of innovation going on in his sector.....Worcester Bosch now have a heat pump with quiet mark certification, lower noise than a fridge.

In Leeds they are fitting them to blocks of flats, giving an energy makeover from low efficiency storage heaters;
https://www.hpmmag.com/news/high-temperature-air-source-heat-pumps-installed-at-leeds-tower-block

[albie]

Looks like gas will be on its way out with the proposed future homes standard;
https://www.propertywire.com/news/heat-pumps-could-be-the-norm-from-2025/

Better late than never, but new build with gas boilers between now and 2025 makes no sense.

Thoughts are turning to the future decommissioning of the gas grid;
https://archive.is/dV68v

Is it possible that this could be turned into an opportunity?
Repurpose gas pipelines as energy carriers for the new North Sea electricity sector.
If they can transport gas to where it is needed, could they equally transfer energy in another form....leccy, hydrogen, hot water?

Reduce the cost of overhead transmission lines...just a thought!

[albie]

Additional financial support announced to support the sector;
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/families-business-and-industry-to-get-energy-efficiency-support

Energy efficiency makeovers now becoming the low hanging fruit!

[GazLaz]

All being well I’m going to be purchasing a house that has a heat pump. Anyone any idea how much they cost to run from an electricity stand point? Presume they run 24/7 365.

[SydneyRover]

They would be available to run 24/7 Gaz but would only fire up when required/set. How much that cost is would depend on a few variable such as how large the space it is required to heat and the temp setting, same for the hot water and different sized systems.

[albie]

Depends on whether you have the solar, Gaz, and what tariff you are on with your utility.

Some like Octopus offer a special rate for heat pump users.
See the Which Report I linked in an earlier post on this thread (72).

[albie]

Quick update as Worcester Bosch are offering £2.5k cashback from April to those choosing their heat pump;
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/worcester-bosch_breaking-news-to-help-make-2024-the-activity-7152714307863007234-cuKy

This is as well as the £7.5k government grant.
Anyone who needs to replace their boiler should look into this.

[albie]

I thought this graph will be of interest to those with a heat pump, or thinking about it;
https://nitter.poast.org/pic/orig/media%2FGJl2JcdXUAAvrrB.jpg

It shows the savings on a heat pump tariff, against the efficiency of the system.