Channel crossing record beat.(again and again and again)

[Axholme Lion]

As many of the back breaking jobs of yesteryear have now gone i don't see any reason not to raise the retirement age. Sixty six is no age nowadays. My grandad retired at 65 but lived through two world wars and a depression, it's just not the same now. Why do we have to have constant growth?

[wilts rover]

And of course there is always more, those trumpeting the points system of immigration may have not thought about the consequences. What happens when you tip the balance in favour of highly trained people? often but not always the highly trained come from families with above average wealth and come because they want the better jobs, until this high tech, high wage tiger economy develops, who is going to do the other work?

Well you were one of them so no point complaining at us!

Anyway if the current rate of success in attracting highly skilled people continues, this scheme that had 0 applicants, then its not goingto be that much of an issue is it.

And if the country is 'full-up' - as other posters have said - why do we have so many shortages, drivers, police, NHS staff, agriculture workers etc? Are you saying we should just accept having less of everything (but more crime) and greater waiting lists?

[River Don]

As many of the back breaking jobs of yesteryear have now gone i don't see any reason not to raise the retirement age. Sixty six is no age nowadays. My grandad retired at 65 but lived through two world wars and a depression, it's just not the same now. Why do we have to have constant growth?

The problem is without constant growth, it's very difficult to create a steady state economy. Things just tend to slide and collapse. The problem is debt, which is basically money borrowed from the future and paid back with interest. To cover that interest the economy must grow.

It's a dilemma because I'm of the opinion we live in a finite world and staying on the treadmill of constant growth will lead eventually to environmental collapse or economic collapse when resources become scarce. Or both.

[drfchound]

The UK’s population continues to grow, but at a slower rate than previously

The UK population has grown year-on-year since 1982.
The 2019 mid-year population estimates release showed that the population of the UK reached 66.8 million, up from 66.4 million in mid-2018. This population growth marks an increase of 0.5%, or an additional 361,000 people, between mid-2018 and mid-2019. Growth in the year mid-2018 to mid-2019 was slower than in any year since mid-2004.

The UK population is projected to increase further; our 2018-based principal national population projections suggest the UK population will surpass 69.6 million by mid-2029 and reach 72 million by mid-2041 – increases of 4.2% and 7.8%, respectively, from mid 2004.

The UK population has grown year on year since 1982.
Projected to be just short of 72million by 2040.
Source:   Office for National Statistics.
January 2021.

[Axholme Lion]

As many of the back breaking jobs of yesteryear have now gone i don't see any reason not to raise the retirement age. Sixty six is no age nowadays. My grandad retired at 65 but lived through two world wars and a depression, it's just not the same now. Why do we have to have constant growth?

The problem is without constant growth, it's very difficult to create a steady state economy. Things just tend to slide and collapse. The problem is debt, which is basically money borrowed from the future and paid back with interest. To cover that interest the economy must grow.

It's a dilemma because I'm of the opinion we live in a finite world and staying on the treadmill of constant growth will lead eventually to environmental collapse or economic collapse when resources become scarce. Or both.

Write down the date. I totally agree! 
As you say the resources of the world will not last forever. At some point things will start to go backwards to a less advanced lifestyle than that which we have enjoyed in the past few decades.

[Sprotyrover]

What I can't understand is why when according to the likes of a large magority of posters on here we in a massive mess why are folks walking across Germany, Belgium and France and then risking theirs lives in their tens of thousands to claim asylum in this so called deprived poverty stricken dump that is on its backside since we dumped the EEC why isn't it the other way surely the flow of migrants should be heading to the paradise over the Chanel which is so admired by my fellow forum members?
Oh by the wat just seen a lady who is a French National and resident of Calais giving a France 24 reporter a piece of her mind " We witness inhuman and degrading treatment every day here in Calais people don't often voice it but we talk about it all of the time if people are putting themselves in danger it's also because of that."
So the locals know and see on a daily basis how the French authorities are treating the migrants on the Channel Coast, make as unwelcome as possible in France and force them to make the very dangerous Channel crossing in an inflated inner tube from a HGV tyre. How is that different to what is happening on the eastern Border of Poland?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sproty.

Most of theme aren't walking across Germany and France to come to the UK. Go look at the numbers. There are FAR more migrants settling in those countries than coming to the UK. Far more.

[albie]

Here's a thought....instead of paying traffickers to load them into inflatables, then risking their lives having spent all their savings with criminals,....we could let them come to the UK on the ferry, normal like!

Once they get here, then they can put in a claim for asylum on arrival, as international law requires.
Then the UK could expedite the claim process, and make an early decision before the migrants transfer into the wider community.

Seems simple, perhaps because it is.
It would prevent the ludicrous posturing of politicians, none of whom have any clue about what it is like to risk their lives to avoid conflict or destitution.

Sorted!

[Sprotyrover]

Sproty.

Most of theme aren't walking across Germany and France to come to the UK. Go look at the numbers. There are FAR more migrants settling in those countries than coming to the UK. Far more.

I had assumed it was a language or family already here thing, but I saw a reporter speaking to an Afghan family of 6 who had been travelling for over a year, and they didn't speak English.
So that theory was incorrect.

[River Don]

The UK jobs market is far less regulated than in France. It maybe lower paid work with poor conditions but it's work.

And the Dublin agreement is an issue, if the migrants were to claim asylum in France then there is the possibility they could be shipped back to Greece or Poland or whereever they first entered the EU. When the French closed down Sangatte last time, they waived the Dublin agreement. At that point apparently many were willing to claim asylum in France.

But the thing is France doesn't want to accept more migrants, it wants them to make the journey to the UK, which is why offers of helping the French authorities will fall on deaf ears.

[normal rules]

Migrants that are in the Calais region are saying that the French are not humane. They take all their property from them, burn camps down, don’t provide food or accommodation. It’s easy to see why they want to come here when there is the offer of hotel accommodation and allowances.
Meantime, I thought we were on the cusp of real progress between us and France. News just in that Priti Patel has been told she is now not invited to the summit in Calais to discuss the crisis. This as a result of Boris insisting in a letter to Macron that there should be a bi lateral agreement for France to take back migrants . Is he f**king stupid? If we patrolled the beaches there, as was going to be planned, Then there would be no new numbers coming in. He has really shot himself and the country in the foot here.

[SydneyRover]

Migrants that are in the Calais region are saying that the French are not humane. They take all their property from them, burn camps down, don’t provide food or accommodation. It’s easy to see why they want to come here when there is the offer of hotel accommodation and allowances.
Meantime, I thought we were on the cusp of real progress between us and France. News just in that Priti Patel has been told she is now not invited to the summit in Calais to discuss the crisis. This as a result of Boris insisting in a letter to Macron that there should be a bi lateral agreement for France to take back migrants . Is he f**king stupid? If we patrolled the beaches there, as was going to be planned, Then there would be no new numbers coming in. He has really shot himself and the country in the foot here.

And if the French invited themselves to Dover to patrol the beaches ........................... ?

[drfchound]

Migrants that are in the Calais region are saying that the French are not humane. They take all their property from them, burn camps down, don’t provide food or accommodation. It’s easy to see why they want to come here when there is the offer of hotel accommodation and allowances.
Meantime, I thought we were on the cusp of real progress between us and France. News just in that Priti Patel has been told she is now not invited to the summit in Calais to discuss the crisis. This as a result of Boris insisting in a letter to Macron that there should be a bi lateral agreement for France to take back migrants . Is he f**king stupid? If we patrolled the beaches there, as was going to be planned, Then there would be no new numbers coming in. He has really shot himself and the country in the foot here.

NR, do we know that the French were going to allow us to patrol their beaches?
Also there have been plenty of people saying that we should be able to send some of the migrants back to France.
I think Boris’s mistake has been in making the contents of his letter known to the public before the meeting that was planned.

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR.

Johnson hasn't shot himself in the foot. Because his primary aim here is not to solve the problem. It's to have a fight with France.

Johnson's best outcome is for the problem to continue and his supporters to blame France and laud Johnson for standing up to them.

There's no other scenario in which his ridiculous Twitter stunt this morning makes any sense.

[normal rules]

Unless he has a complete buffoon other than himself looking after his social media footprint

[Axholme Lion]

Migrants that are in the Calais region are saying that the French are not humane. They take all their property from them, burn camps down, don’t provide food or accommodation. It’s easy to see why they want to come here when there is the offer of hotel accommodation and allowances.

Well who would have thought that? Make it uncomfortable for them and they will go away. When do we begin? It's about time we stopped all this namby pamby pussy footing and sorted the problem once and for all.

[ravenrover]

People keep talking about bodies on the ground patrolling the French beaches. An impossible task given the length of the French coastline say from Dunkirk to Boulogne.
Surely using modern tech ie Drones is a much simpler quicker and effective way of monitoring the coast? If drones can be used to identify individual "terrorists" before they are taken out surely a group of desperate migrants 30 or 40 strong can be identified. Or am I missing something?

[River Don]

Migrants that are in the Calais region are saying that the French are not humane. They take all their property from them, burn camps down, don’t provide food or accommodation. It’s easy to see why they want to come here when there is the offer of hotel accommodation and allowances.

Well who would have thought that? Make it uncomfortable for them and they will go away. When do we begin? It's about time we stopped all this namby pamby pussy footing and sorted the problem once and for all.

There is no once and for all solution. Migration from conflict, political persecution and climate change is only going to get worse. We already know this.

[normal rules]

People keep talking about bodies on the ground patrolling the French beaches. An impossible task given the length of the French coastline say from Dunkirk to Boulogne.
Surely using modern tech ie Drones is a much simpler quicker and effective way of monitoring the coast? If drones can be used to identify individual "terrorists" before they are taken out surely a group of desperate migrants 30 or 40 strong can be identified. Or am I missing something?

It would surely need a co ordinated multi agency approach.
The suppliers of the inflatables for instance. It’s a pretty niche item.  This is not a difficult thing to detect.  Intelligence has suggested they are being purchased on Amazon. I’m pretty sure Amazon would be more than happy to share info on the buyers of such. There would be a pretty large footprint being left by those purchasing these things. Then there are the outboard motors. Again, this is a pretty specific item. We know the engines that are being used , because they are being seized at Dover. Regarding the coastline. You would not need to deploy too many people along the coast. More so at night time  of course due to visibility. Then there is the weather where some days it would be impossible. Drone deployments . Even use of satellites. Planes helicopters. All of this is possible. There is only so much coastline that allows for a crossing in a dinghy. During the day you would only need one spotter every kilometre or two to make this effective. This has a joint military deployment written all over it.  Instead we give our tax payers cash to the french who must be lapping it up.  There was a cracking bit of footage of a french beach patrol watching a dinghy being launched whilst stood doing nothing.
Beggars belief.

[Axholme Lion]

Migrants that are in the Calais region are saying that the French are not humane. They take all their property from them, burn camps down, don’t provide food or accommodation. It’s easy to see why they want to come here when there is the offer of hotel accommodation and allowances.

Well who would have thought that? Make it uncomfortable for them and they will go away. When do we begin? It's about time we stopped all this namby pamby pussy footing and sorted the problem once and for all.

There is no once and for all solution. Migration from conflict, political persecution and climate change is only going to get worse. We already know this.

There bloody well is. Send out high speed patrol boats to circle the dinghies making it impossible for them to navigate the waters and turn back. Keep doing it until they get the message. If people STILL insist on putting their own lives at risk by carrying on doing it then the consequences are THEIR OWN RESPONSIBLITY. I AM SICK TO DEATH OF SEEING THEM COMING HERE.ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!

[normal rules]

Just pop the dinghies on the beach before they get launched. Job done.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I wonder how it feels to look in the mirror, when your job is to write this sort of hateful rubbish two days after 27 people died in the Channel?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFHK_3xXwAo8ks2?format=jpg&name=900x900

[ravenrover]

Migrants that are in the Calais region are saying that the French are not humane. They take all their property from them, burn camps down, don’t provide food or accommodation. It’s easy to see why they want to come here when there is the offer of hotel accommodation and allowances.

Well who would have thought that? Make it uncomfortable for them and they will go away. When do we begin? It's about time we stopped all this namby pamby pussy footing and sorted the problem once and for all.

There is no once and for all solution. Migration from conflict, political persecution and climate change is only going to get worse. We already know this.

There bloody well is. Send out high speed patrol boats to circle the dinghies making it impossible for them to navigate the waters and turn back. Keep doing it until they get the message. If people STILL insist on putting their own lives at risk by carrying on doing it then the consequences are THEIR OWN RESPONSIBLITY. I AM SICK TO DEATH OF SEEING THEM COMING HERE.ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!

And when the 1st dinghy carrying women and kids capsizes during this turn around operation .........

[drfchound]

I’m posting this comment as an observation, it doesn’t represent my opinion …. before anyone piles in and vilifies me.
On the bbc news I heard an interview with a bloke who had been the head of a uk border force team  and had been based in France for 16 years.
He said that the majority of the people coming illegally into the UK were economic migrants, not refugees.

[SydneyRover]

This is not the first time this information has been posted, but I guess it's my turn today

''Most people who risk Channel boat crossings are refugees – report
Analysis contradicts Priti Patel’s claim that 70% are single men who are economic migrants to UK''

Nearly two-thirds of people who migrate to the UK in small boats are deemed to be genuine refugees and allowed to remain, a report says, in an apparent contradiction of past statements by the home secretary, Priti Patel.

Analysis using Home Office data and requests under freedom of information laws has concluded that 61% of migrants who travel by boat are likely to be allowed to stay after claiming asylum.

This means she is a liar surprise surprise, and is fomenting trouble.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/17/most-people-who-risk-channel-boat-crossings-are-refugees-report

[albie]

Official stats are available for those who are interested in the facts;
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-september-2021/how-many-people-do-we-grant-asylum-or-protection-to

Better to look there, than to rely upon the opinions of people who routinely talk absolute bollux.

[Sprotyrover]

Official stats are available for those who are interested in the facts;
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-september-2021/how-many-people-do-we-grant-asylum-or-protection-to

Better to look there, than to rely upon the opinions of people who routinely talk absolute bollux.

Sydders posting more unsubstantiated poop from the Guardian!
Allies WHO figures totally discredit the lazy lying leftie Journo FiBs!
Oh and my lad worked as a immigration  Decider at the Home Office and the Albanian guys do their absolute upmost to get some feckless British girl pregnant so they can stay on as 'Daddy'.once they achieved 'Daddyhood' we can't repatriate them,
He used to interview them and the first info they always blurt out is that they have a girlfriend who is pregnant or their 'Baby mother'!
Second bit of info is how they have 'fallen out' with another extended family in Albania and can't go home because they will be killed...bit like the Gang bangers in the 115 organised crime groups in Sheffield and south York's they're all under threat of Death..it's just a pity they don't go and seek asylum in Albania.

[SydneyRover]

Official stats are available for those who are interested in the facts;
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-september-2021/how-many-people-do-we-grant-asylum-or-protection-to

Better to look there, than to rely upon the opinions of people who routinely talk absolute bollux.

Sydders posting more unsubstantiated poop from the Guardian!
Allies WHO figures totally discredit the lazy lying leftie Journo FiBs!
Oh and my lad worked as a immigration  Decider at the Home Office and the Albanian guys do their absolute upmost to get some feckless British girl pregnant so they can stay on as 'Daddy'.once they achieved 'Daddyhood' we can't repatriate them,
He used to interview them and the first info they always blurt out is that they have a girlfriend who is pregnant or their 'Baby mother'!
Second bit of info is how they have 'fallen out' with another extended family in Albania and can't go home because they will be killed...bit like the Gang bangers in the 115 organised crime groups in Sheffield and south York's they're all under threat of Death..it's just a pity they don't go and seek asylum in Albania.

From Albie's link

1. People granted protection and other leave through asylum and resettlement routes
This section covers individuals granted leave to remain in the UK via three routes: applying for asylum, resettlement, and family reunion visas.

The UK offered protection, in the form of asylum, humanitarian protection, alternative forms of leave and resettlement, to 13,210 people (including dependants) in the year ending September 2021. Of these:

81% were granted refugee status following an asylum application (‘asylum’)
7% were granted humanitarian protection
3% were granted alternative forms of leave (such as discretionary leave, UASC leave)
9% were granted refugee status through resettlement schemes, although this proportion was lower than in recent years due to the COVID-19 pandemic
Additionally, 6,524 partners and children of refugees living in the UK were granted entry to the UK through family reunion visas, 8% more than the previous year.

[SydneyRover]

Again from Albie's link

In the year ending September 2021, there were 14,758 initial decisions made on asylum applications. The number of decisions was 6% fewer than the previous year, in part, as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. Although the number of decisions made has increased in the latest two quarters, the numbers remain below levels seen before the pandemic.

Almost two thirds (64%) of the initial decisions in the year ending September 2021 were grants of asylum, humanitarian protection or alternative forms of leave. The proportion of grants is higher than the previous year (49%), and higher than levels prior to 2019, when around a third of initial decisions were grants. This is in part because the number of grants has increased, returning to levels similar to those prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, while the number of refusals has decreased, remaining below pre-pandemic levels.

[drfchound]

From the UK Parliament website.

Asylum is protection given by a country to someone fleeing from persecution in their own country. An asylum seeker is someone who has applied for asylum and is awaiting a decision on whether they will be granted refugee status.
An asylum applicant who does not qualify for refugee status may still be granted leave to remain in the UK for humanitarian or other reasons. An asylum seeker whose application is refused at initial decision may appeal the decision through an appeals process and, if successful, may be granted leave to remain.
Asylum applications
The number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010, before rising again to reach 35,737 in 2019.
The number of applications fell slightly to 29,456 applications in 2020, as the combined result of far fewer arrivals by air and an increase in arrivals by small boat across the English Channel.
Asylum seekers made up around 6% of immigrants to the UK in 2019.


Decisions and refusals
The percentage of asylum applicants refused at initial decision reached its highest point at 88% in 2004. After that, the percentage of applicants refused at initial decision fell to 59% in 2014, then rose again before dropping to 48% in 2019.


In the period from 2004 to 2020, around three-quarters of applicants refused asylum at initial decision lodged an appeal and almost one third of those appeals were allowed.
Asylum caseload
As of June 2021, the total ‘work in progress’ asylum caseload consisted of 125,000 cases. Of these, 57,000 cases were awaiting an initial decision at the end of 2020, 5,900 were awaiting the outcome of an appeal, and approximately 39,500 cases were subject to removal action.
The total asylum caseload has doubled in size since 2014, driven both by applicants waiting longer for an initial decision and a growth in the number of people subject to removal action following a negative decision.