Channel crossing record beat.(again and again and again)

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is why this law is a stain on the country.

1) The Govt has made it impossible for people from the vast majority of countries to legally claim asylum here.

2) You CAN claim asylum if you fly to the UK and claim it at border control. But the whole point is that people fleeing genuine oppression will not be able to get a visa to be able to legally fly to the UK in the first place


3) Last year, 90% of  "illegal" arrivals on Channel boats claimed asylum.

4) Of the cases dealt with to date, 62% have been granted asylum or some other leave to remain.

5) So the Govt's response is to remove the legal right to claim asylum if you arrive illegally.

Just beyond words.

[Bristol Red Rover]

And meanwhile, once again my brother in law who was born, raised and schooled to the age of 8 in the UK, to a father with indefinite leave to remain, is hitting a brick wall with this disgusting Home Office when he tries to exercise his right to receive a British passport. Once again HE is being asked to provide written proof that his father had leave to remain, despite the fact that his father died in chaotic circumstances when he was only 8 years old. Despite his father having lived, married, worked, raised two families, run three companies and paid taxes in the UK, the Home Office has no record of him.

Most people in this country have no idea whatsoever of this callous incompetence, and how it f**ks up people's lives.

Worse, I think there's a decent proportion of the population who really don't care what is done in their name.

I think one of the problems is that for all the genuine cases like your brother-in-law’s, there are, no doubt, many fraudulent claims for a British passport. As harsh as it sounds, talking someone’s word for it just opens the floodgates for false claims to be accepted.

Yes, it does sound harsh. There is no doubt some signficant evidence of the situation in the case BST uses, just not the evidence that is required. Looking at individual circumstances is the human way to go, and doesn't necessarily take that long to process. The same goes for so many situations in life. The reason lines are drawn in the sand, ie strict laws and strict processes is because the powers that be can firmly define things that support their aims. In this case bigging up the us and them card - always a right wing vote winner, and a distraction from real human issues.

This is not for "the people", it's for the nefarious powers in control. They've constructed the narrative over many decades that way.

It's worth paralleling "harsh" in this instance to "harsh" in the case of bringing back hanging. "Harsh" says, for the few who fall foul of misjustice, the majority are guilty. It also plays the populist fantasy card of being "harsh" will disuade others from murdering - paralleled by gettiing on a dingy in Calais. It maybe makes a low single percentage figure difference, but the narrative that is being used makes out it's far far higher - ie it's b*llocks, and the masses are being conned by those in power - no change there then.

Then it is important to look at who is being targetted. Boat people. There are other immigrants - currently including those from Ukraine - that are ignored in this. Why would that be? And it's not just Ukraines. Also, there is this fallacy of getting people in the country with high qualifications, with bags of money, with some relatives here. We need people of all kinds including hard grafting Africans and others. What we could expell are the likes of the spongers personified by Rees Mogg, Sunak, Johnson, Braverman and thousands of others.

Can't you see what's going on?

[belton rover]

I don’t disagree with any of that, Bristol.
But you are quoting my post which is in response to Billy’s personal story regarding his BIL and British passports, not ‘boat people’.

[ravenrover]

This is why this law is a stain on the country.

1) The Govt has made it impossible for people from the vast majority of countries to legally claim asylum here.

2) You CAN claim asylum if you fly to the UK and claim it at border control. But the whole point is that people fleeing genuine oppression will not be able to get a visa to be able to legally fly to the UK in the first place


3) Last year, 90% of  "illegal" arrivals on Channel boats claimed asylum.

4) Of the cases dealt with to date, 62% have been granted asylum or some other leave to remain.

5) So the Govt's response is to remove the legal right to claim asylum if you arrive illegally.

Just beyond words.

Not forgetting they need for the correct ID/passport to arrange a flight/visa

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR
I'm generally a believer in the cock up model of history rather than the conspiracy model.

In the case of my brother in law, the core of the problem is that the Home Office which granted his father indefinite leave to remain has no record of the fact that it did so. I KNOW they did because I once saw the documentary evidence he had.

That is a classic case of institutional incompetence. The HO haven't had the systems to record their own decisions on something as fundamental as who has the right to live and work here.

Under this Govt though, there's been more of a move towards the conspiracy angle. By batting this back to a person who was 8 when his father died and insisting it is HIS responsibility to prove that the HO made that decision, they are deliberately choosing to prevent someone who currently lives overseas from getting his birthright. And of course, it's a low hanging fruit in their aim of being able to crow that they've reduced the numbers of "foreigners" coming to Britain.

If this is how they deal with people with a legal right to a British passport, it's a small step to them denying the rights of geniune asylum seekers, which is precisely what this new law will do.

But of course this new law is not about justice or morality. It's about stoking the Culture War and making sure angry right wing people stay angry and vote Tory.

Thats

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1633497536831815680?s=20

If you support this nasty, vicious law from Braverman, or if you don't oppose it, be aware of what you are allowing. It's the end of the system that was set up, by Britain and the Allies after the War.

If you do this, don't ever dare compare yourselves to that generation.

[normal rules]

i have a genuine question for those on here who take issue with the govt immigration policy.

How do you feel about the thousands of young Albanian males coming to the UK. Who now, by some distance, make up the largest percentage of cross channel migrants entering the uk illegally.
 Please evidence your response.

And for context, i ask this because Albanian Organised Crime is going through an explosive increase in the uk currently. Albanian migration into the uk is not a new thing. But this recent wave is next level, and then some.
Albanian Organised Crime are like Italian Mafia on steroids. Albanian OCG's now how control of most of the cocaine markets in the uk, with Liverpool being the sole exception (for now) It is this explosion in their activity that is fuelling the dramatic increase in cross channel migration.   

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR.

The solution is, if they are claiming asylum and don't have grounds for that, process their case and deport them.

What you must not do is effectively ban the whole concept of seeking asylum in the UK.

It's a question of managerial incompetence that has been turned into an issue of Culture War (im)morality.

[drfchound]

BRR
I'm generally a believer in the cock up model of history rather than the conspiracy model.

In the case of my brother in law, the core of the problem is that the Home Office which granted his father indefinite leave to remain has no record of the fact that it did so. I KNOW they did because I once saw the documentary evidence he had.

That is a classic case of institutional incompetence. The HO haven't had the systems to record their own decisions on something as fundamental as who has the right to live and work here.

Under this Govt though, there's been more of a move towards the conspiracy angle. By batting this back to a person who was 8 when his father died and insisting it is HIS responsibility to prove that the HO made that decision, they are deliberately choosing to prevent someone who currently lives overseas from getting his birthright. And of course, it's a low hanging fruit in their aim of being able to crow that they've reduced the numbers of "foreigners" coming to Britain.

If this is how they deal with people with a legal right to a British passport, it's a small step to them denying the rights of geniune asylum seekers, which is precisely what this new law will do.

But of course this new law is not about justice or morality. It's about stoking the Culture War and making sure angry right wing people stay angry and vote Tory.

Thats

BST. genuine question here.
If your bro in law has got documentary evidence then why can't he copy it and send it to the Home Office.
Perhaps get a solicitor to verify that it is genuine and not something that has been recently made.

[SydneyRover]

i have a genuine question for those on here who take issue with the govt immigration policy.

How do you feel about the thousands of young Albanian males coming to the UK. Who now, by some distance, make up the largest percentage of cross channel migrants entering the uk illegally.
 Please evidence your response.

And for context, i ask this because Albanian Organised Crime is going through an explosive increase in the uk currently. Albanian migration into the uk is not a new thing. But this recent wave is next level, and then some.
Albanian Organised Crime are like Italian Mafia on steroids. Albanian OCG's now how control of most of the cocaine markets in the uk, with Liverpool being the sole exception (for now) It is this explosion in their activity that is fuelling the dramatic increase in cross channel migration.   

Why not ask why the government has not stopped Albanians taking over the the major drug scene in the UK and working directly with the mafia before now?

[normal rules]

Im not asking you SR
You gave up the uk some time ago.
You don't count.
You don't live here.

[drfchound]

The Police are well aware of it syd and are trying to deal with it.
As you might know, it isn't so easy to do.

[SydneyRover]

Im not asking you SR
You gave up the uk some time ago.
You don't count.
You don't live here.

How do you know I'm not in the country right now nr?

[normal rules]

you dont live here anymore.

[SydneyRover]

you dont live here anymore.

What are you going to do shoot me in the back?

[normal rules]

you dont live here anymore.

What are you going to do shoot me in the back?

waste of lead.

[SydneyRover]

you sound like a right wing extremist nr and you let yourself get wound up by a government wanting to do just that.

[normal rules]

I'm my own person SR. What you think I "sound" like is irrelevant to me.
From my military days, i was taught not to waste ammo on non combatants or non threats. you raised the topic of shooting people in the back, hypothetically or otherwise. i see you as both of the above. not worth the effort. or the lead.
If you knew me you would think diff. Im opinionated. But defo not extreme.

Get y' sen down t' Anderson Park.
Its the closest you'll get to being a "Rovers" supporter now.

[wilts rover]

Talk about mixed messaging: tomorrows Financial Times - government to introduce measures to bring in more foreign construction workers.

Hope they dont bring them over by ferry - or they will be building houses in the first safe country they arrive in.

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1633599500861460480

[Bristol Red Rover]

I don’t disagree with any of that, Bristol.
But you are quoting my post which is in response to Billy’s personal story regarding his BIL and British passports, not ‘boat people’.

Fair enough, that was written after my third strong coffee, and I raced a touch too fast! 

My point though was about BSTs BIL, and how I don't see any floodgates being opened if the case is dealt with humanely - which is the same for the boat people. Just that bureaucracy plus the pandering to fear of foreigners policy, including this recent law, is anti humanity.

[danumdon]

you sound like a right wing extremist nr and you let yourself get wound up by a government wanting to do just that.

Someone with inside knowledge and an opinion gets called a right wing extremist for asking a valid question ?

But then what else did we expect from the usual sources.

[SydneyRover]

I'll just put this here so anyone wanting to complain to the mods has the overall story.

Im not asking you SR
You gave up the uk some time ago.
You don't count.
You don't live here.

Re: 1 in 10 Police Officers a danger to the public
« Reply #13 on March 08, 2023, 10:17:57 pm by SydneyRover »
Quote from: normal rules on February 07, 2023, 09:55:05 am
In you first scenario, then there would most certainly be a charge of death by careless or death by dangerous. Which most certainly would result in a job loss of course and a custodial term being imposed.

If only we lived in a world where everyone complied with the law, then there would be no need for police or any other law enforcement agency.
But what sort of a world would that be ?

Having a supervisor and obeying their instruction. Hmmm. Where do I start with this?
Some leaders I would gladly follow into battle. All day long.
Some I would happily shoot in the back. Literally. Because their orders and instructions would put lives at risk. Because they are clueless.
And I have experience of both.

This sounds like extremist behaviour to me?

[normal rules]

My military days are well behind me thankfully.
Complain away.
And be sure to let us know how Anderson Park is.


And when you are bored, which seems apparent is often due to the amount of time you spend on here, read up on Lt Col H Jones of the Para Regt.
And look for the truth. Not the wiki story.

[MachoMadness]

Meanwhile, our opposition party is opposing the plan based on how ineffective it is, rather than how disgustingly immoral it is, creating a moral vacuum seemingly filled by f**king Gary Lineker. The story is now about Gary Lineker's opinion of our stride towards fascism rather than the stride itself. We're in a dangerous place here.

[Bentley Bullet]

Starmer will sort it!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, our opposition party is opposing the plan based on how ineffective it is, rather than how disgustingly immoral it is, creating a moral vacuum seemingly filled by f**king Gary Lineker. The story is now about Gary Lineker's opinion of our stride towards fascism rather than the stride itself. We're in a dangerous place here.

I know you dislike the current Labour party, but even for someone coming from that angle you're being wilfully blind here.

There are two parallel and separate issues about the boat crossings.

1) There ARE economic migrants originating in safe countries who are trying to get into the country illegally.

2) There ARE desperate people trying to escape oppression and seeing the UK as a place to claim asylum.

Unless you separate out this two, you're not going to solve the issue.

The problem at the moment is that everyone is treated the same. Those who really are economic migrants know that the asylum system is so dysfunctional that if they get caught, they can claim asylum and often vanish into the black economy before their case is ever processed.

Braverman literally doesn't give a f**k about the second and THAT is the moral obscenity. Her response is to address that blockinf any arriving people from claiming asylum so that they can all be deported quickly.

The ONLY way you solve this problem in a way that combines effective deterence with genuine morality is to have an asylum processing system that works quickly so that it can filter out the geniune and non-genuine cases efficiently while also rooting out the criminal gangs that facilitate the economic migrant trade. Do that and you can properly target the illegal economic migrants while still allowing genuine asylum claims.

But it's bloody hard and it needs a remorseless focus. Under Braverman and Patel there wasn't even the will to do that, because it was better for them to be seen to hit ALL the alien invasion with the same stick. It plays to a particularly nasty brand of English Nationalism that their support is rooted in.

Labour's policy is the one I've just outlined above. Will it work? I don't know. But to suggest there's some sort of moral black hole at the core of Labour because they are talking about effectivity of the policy is beneath you MM. It comes from that intellectually bone idle attitude of so many Corbynistas that any non-Corbynite Labour party is effectively Tory.

You talk about dangerous places. That attitude is one of the most corrosive in current politics.

[normal rules]

Sunak has agreed a 500mil pound scheme to give the French over 3 years to help sort this. They will employ  500 extra officers and have a detention centre . They are going to call it Le Scampton.

[DonnyOsmond]

Surely having an online portal or a center to process them was the first port of call, that alone would stop the boats. It's not f*cking rocket science. Give them a safe way to claim asylum in this country and they would have used it.

[Sprotyrover]

My solution would be,build a detention centre in North France, staff it with Border Force/immigration/French Security officers. All asylum Seekers will be processed there if they are genuine put the on a ferry and ship em to a resettlement site, if they Fail, i.e. Albanian or other safe country, or clearly a military militant threat they are not processed but sent on their way, from 'D' days any boat loads recovered Mid Chanel are returned to the centre and processed. It might cost £500 million a year but it will be effective. A bit like the huge compound in Nigeria that processes peeps wanting to travel to the UK legally.and I wouldn't bother with Rwanda.

[DonnyOsmond]

My solution would be,build a detention centre in North France, staff it with Border Force/immigration/French Security officers. All asylum Seekers will be processed there if they are genuine put the on a ferry and ship em to a resettlement site, if they Fail, i.e. Albanian or other safe country, or clearly a military militant threat they are not processed but sent on their way, from 'D' days any boat loads recovered Mid Chanel are returned to the centre and processed. It might cost £500 a year but it will be effective. A bit like the huge compound in Nigeria that processes peeps wanting to travel to the UK legally.and I wouldn't bother with Rwanda.

£500 would be decent.