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Conclusion:Boris Johnson was wrong because he delayed Lockdown. Then he was wrong because he ended them too early. On the other hand, he was wrong because we went into lockdown too early, and then he was wrong because he kept us in lockdown too long! But then, he was wrong anyway because we shouldn't have gone into lockdown at all!
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 12:21:05 pmIf only the media had never reported COVID. Maybe 200,000 UK people wouldn't have died of it.Where do you get those figures?"My opinion is based on a careful and detailed analysis of the evidence"
If only the media had never reported COVID. Maybe 200,000 UK people wouldn't have died of it.
Isn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who had this pandemic to deal with .Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on September 04, 2022, 03:23:23 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 12:21:05 pmIf only the media had never reported COVID. Maybe 200,000 UK people wouldn't have died of it.Where do you get those figures?"My opinion is based on a careful and detailed analysis of the evidence"Lost count how many times I've set this out, but here goes again. As of the end of August, there had been 182,000 deaths where COVID had been stated as a contributing factor on the death certificate. In addition, in March-April 2020, at the height of the first wave, there was a surge of 25,000 in excess deaths that were recorded as being due to flu/pneumonia type symptoms, but where COVID wasn't on the death certificate.The ONS has investigated that surge in detail and concluded that by far the most likely explanation is that they were undiagnosed COVID cases. So that takes the total death toll to 207,000.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 12:21:05 pmIf only the media had never reported COVID. Maybe 200,000 UK people wouldn't have died of it.Where do you get those figures?"My opinion is based on a careful and detailed analysis of the evidence"
BST - that's way off the mark in terms of careful and detailed analysis. You know this.Deaths with does not equal deaths from - lets start there.Further, the excess deaths that can be measured are partly to do with (I'm being kind) a stretched health service that let people die it would otherwise have kept alive. And then there are direct deaths from the lockdown effect - suicides, vulnerable people not receiving proper care, people not asking for help due to the "only contact the health service if it's essential", and so on, lots more reasons.I have no doubt covid was a very serious illness, especially in its first incarnation.The management should have been to protect vulnerable, isolate the infected, and to allow others to get on with their lives, as has been the case through most of human history.
One or two looking at this the wrong way in my opinion .Your looking at this with today's eyes on and not what we were looking at in early 2020 .As we went in to summer a thousand people were dying everyday of this awful virus .Tell you something else too , we weren't locked down , not really unless you consider not going to the pub as locked down .You could food shop , diy shops were open , you could get out and go for walks .Let's have some perspective here , we weren't locked down in the full sense of the term .
Quote from: tyke1962 on September 04, 2022, 01:08:13 pmIsn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who had this pandemic to deal with .Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid. There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.One city. But yeah, it was all a stitch up.
Quote from: tyke1962 on September 04, 2022, 07:41:14 pmOne or two looking at this the wrong way in my opinion .Your looking at this with today's eyes on and not what we were looking at in early 2020 .As we went in to summer a thousand people were dying everyday of this awful virus .Tell you something else too , we weren't locked down , not really unless you consider not going to the pub as locked down .You could food shop , diy shops were open , you could get out and go for walks .Let's have some perspective here , we weren't locked down in the full sense of the term .Some of us didn't buy into it back in early 2020 and we now know the magnitude of the death and destruction of the virus was magnified a thousand times over by an obsessed MSM and agenda driven scientists. Some of us saw through that bull pretty much straight away.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 05:46:04 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 04, 2022, 01:08:13 pmIsn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who had this pandemic to deal with .Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid. There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.One city. But yeah, it was all a stitch up. And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored.
Quote from: Panda on September 04, 2022, 08:21:58 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 04, 2022, 07:41:14 pmOne or two looking at this the wrong way in my opinion .Your looking at this with today's eyes on and not what we were looking at in early 2020 .As we went in to summer a thousand people were dying everyday of this awful virus .Tell you something else too , we weren't locked down , not really unless you consider not going to the pub as locked down .You could food shop , diy shops were open , you could get out and go for walks .Let's have some perspective here , we weren't locked down in the full sense of the term .Some of us didn't buy into it back in early 2020 and we now know the magnitude of the death and destruction of the virus was magnified a thousand times over by an obsessed MSM and agenda driven scientists. Some of us saw through that bull pretty much straight away.Do you honestly believe a Tory government would pay folk like me 80% of my wages to stop at home for 6 months without genuine reason ? .
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 08:33:15 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 05:46:04 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 04, 2022, 01:08:13 pmIsn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who had this pandemic to deal with .Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid. There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.One city. But yeah, it was all a stitch up. And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored. You ignore the current horrors of 1k excess deaths per week.
Quote from: Nudga on September 04, 2022, 08:38:57 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 08:33:15 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 05:46:04 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 04, 2022, 01:08:13 pmIsn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who had this pandemic to deal with .Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid. There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.One city. But yeah, it was all a stitch up. And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored. You ignore the current horrors of 1k excess deaths per week.Yes. Oddly enough no mention of this in the MSM. No mention of the people vaccine damaged and dead due to the vaccine who have finally been given a voice on GB News, particularly by Mark Steyn and who would not have got a look in they were to rely on MSM to highlight their plight. It is almost as if this isn't happening and these people don't exist when in fact it is a very real and serious problem that is only getting worse.
I had my own views on things before GB news came to air and they just happen to say things that i already agreed with and thought. I don't get influenced by them because i already hold those views. Same with Talk Radio. I'm not daft enough to not think they have an agenda too but i am very much of the same views as Talk Radio and GB News as the MSM do not consider the other side of anything at all.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 08:33:15 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 05:46:04 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 04, 2022, 01:08:13 pmIsn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who had this pandemic to deal with .Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid. There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.One city. But yeah, it was all a stitch up. And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored. You ignore the current horrors of 1k excess deaths per week.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 04, 2022, 05:46:04 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 04, 2022, 01:08:13 pmIsn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who had this pandemic to deal with .Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid. There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.One city. But yeah, it was all a stitch up. And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored.
Quote from: SydneyRover on September 02, 2022, 10:56:45 pmQuote from: Colin C No.3 on September 02, 2022, 02:20:59 pmSydney. If you see a shark coming towards you in ‘attack mode’, can you frighten it off by hitting it on its nose?I believe a sharks nose is very sensitive. A bit like a man’s knackers.Thank you.Talking b*llocks ColOnly asking.
Quote from: Colin C No.3 on September 02, 2022, 02:20:59 pmSydney. If you see a shark coming towards you in ‘attack mode’, can you frighten it off by hitting it on its nose?I believe a sharks nose is very sensitive. A bit like a man’s knackers.Thank you.Talking b*llocks Col
Sydney. If you see a shark coming towards you in ‘attack mode’, can you frighten it off by hitting it on its nose?I believe a sharks nose is very sensitive. A bit like a man’s knackers.Thank you.
You are obsessed with Bergamo. The Italians started this mess. Nudged by China to go into lockdown first and the groupthink that was the rest of Europes world leaders duly followed. Abandoning the pandemic plan already in place.
Billy, it’s a fact, you are misrepresenting the numbers, you don’t even need to. Too many people died, that’s not been argued. What you cannot state as fact is that everyone where it states a contributing factor died FROM it.Surely you can agree with that