Whiteman to Preston ?

[dickos1]

Thanks martin
Do you know if they’re miles away from our valuation or are we close enough that a deal seems likely

Well, firstly let me say that some of the transfer fees mentioned on this forum are well wide of the mark. In this current market fees are drastically reduced.

The Barnsley bids during the summer were particularly pathetic, and the Preston bids have exceeded them by some margin. But we're still a fair bit short and I'm not sure if we'll get there. Even if Preston did a lot of our supporters would be extremely disappointed.

The club are doing what they can, but if his head is turned, which it has been, then negotiating can be tricky.

SM your insight and honest about tmwhat you can share is very much appreciated.

I do think we can learn something from Peterbrough in one way on transfers though.

We are a great club clearly at looking after players and its though no fault of drfc that he has had his head turned. Therefore for once we need to play had ball. We don't need to sell him so why do that? We have a squad that needs utilising and showed today how they all came together for each other.

If he wants to go it has to be for the value we want, not one because our hand is being forced

Seem to recall Lyle Taylor refusing to play for Charlton at one point, seemingly throwing his teddies out of the pram but, if I remember rightly, he eventually relented and played again. Still got his move to Forest in the end.

If would like to think DM is experienced enough to understand and handle him. the longer this goes on.

That was a different scenario altogether though, his contract at ended but the season got extended and he refused to play on for them after his contract had ended.
His move to forest was already lined up so he didn’t want to jeopardise that

[Retdon1]

Thanks martin
Do you know if they’re miles away from our valuation or are we close enough that a deal seems likely

Well, firstly let me say that some of the transfer fees mentioned on this forum are well wide of the mark. In this current market fees are drastically reduced.

The Barnsley bids during the summer were particularly pathetic, and the Preston bids have exceeded them by some margin. But we're still a fair bit short and I'm not sure if we'll get there. Even if Preston did a lot of our supporters would be extremely disappointed.

The club are doing what they can, but if his head is turned, which it has been, then negotiating can be tricky.

The fees I’ve mostly seen mentioned on here are around the £2.5 - £3 million mark. If your saying that’s wide if the mark then the club are seriously  underValuing Ben

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Thanks martin
Do you know if they’re miles away from our valuation or are we close enough that a deal seems likely

Well, firstly let me say that some of the transfer fees mentioned on this forum are well wide of the mark. In this current market fees are drastically reduced.

The Barnsley bids during the summer were particularly pathetic, and the Preston bids have exceeded them by some margin. But we're still a fair bit short and I'm not sure if we'll get there. Even if Preston did a lot of our supporters would be extremely disappointed.

The club are doing what they can, but if his head is turned, which it has been, then negotiating can be tricky.

SM your insight and honest about tmwhat you can share is very much appreciated.

I do think we can learn something from Peterbrough in one way on transfers though.

We are a great club clearly at looking after players and its though no fault of drfc that he has had his head turned. Therefore for once we need to play had ball. We don't need to sell him so why do that? We have a squad that needs utilising and showed today how they all came together for each other.

If he wants to go it has to be for the value we want, not one because our hand is being forced

Seem to recall Lyle Taylor refusing to play for Charlton at one point, seemingly throwing his teddies out of the pram but, if I remember rightly, he eventually relented and played again. Still got his move to Forest in the end.

If would like to think DM is experienced enough to understand and handle him. the longer this goes on.

That was a different scenario altogether though, his contract at ended but the season got extended and he refused to play on for them after his contract had ended.
His move to forest was already lined up so he didn’t want to jeopardise that

Yes, you're right. He did play again though I think but it got a bit messy between him, manager, fans etc for a while.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Thanks martin
Do you know if they’re miles away from our valuation or are we close enough that a deal seems likely

Well, firstly let me say that some of the transfer fees mentioned on this forum are well wide of the mark. In this current market fees are drastically reduced.

The Barnsley bids during the summer were particularly pathetic, and the Preston bids have exceeded them by some margin. But we're still a fair bit short and I'm not sure if we'll get there. Even if Preston did a lot of our supporters would be extremely disappointed.

The club are doing what they can, but if his head is turned, which it has been, then negotiating can be tricky.

The fees I’ve mostly seen mentioned on here are around the £2.5 - £3 million mark. If your saying that’s wide if the mark then the club are seriously  underValuing Ben

But in the current climate it's reasonable that valuations go down because of lack of income and the need to survive as a club. What last season was worth 3m is now maybe 1-1.5m. I'd assume the same goes for wages surely Preston can't be offering much more than he's on now?

If your a player whose out of contract in the summer you might have to expect a pay cut in the lower leagues because clubs can't be in a good place right now. Hopefully that means any money we get goes further anyway with lower valuations... wishful thinking maybe

[Filo]

Don’t forget the players deffered some of their wages, we’ll need to pay that back to him

[silent majority]

Thanks martin
Do you know if they’re miles away from our valuation or are we close enough that a deal seems likely

Well, firstly let me say that some of the transfer fees mentioned on this forum are well wide of the mark. In this current market fees are drastically reduced.

The Barnsley bids during the summer were particularly pathetic, and the Preston bids have exceeded them by some margin. But we're still a fair bit short and I'm not sure if we'll get there. Even if Preston did a lot of our supporters would be extremely disappointed.

The club are doing what they can, but if his head is turned, which it has been, then negotiating can be tricky.

The fees I’ve mostly seen mentioned on here are around the £2.5 - £3 million mark. If your saying that’s wide if the mark then the club are seriously  underValuing Ben

No, its not the club.

Despite what everybody thinks of Bens ability he's not attracting offers from multitudes of clubs. His view is that he's not getting any younger and he wants Championship football sooner rather than later. The club are just being realistic of current market conditions, plus the club have always been faithful to their word and have communicated to him faithfully and openly.

[PDX_Rover]

They either meet our valuation or no deal. We are in the driving seat. He is our player for the next 2.5 years.

[silent majority]

They either meet our valuation or no deal. We are in the driving seat. He is our player for the next 2.5 years.

I wish it was that simple.

[rich1471]

Don’t forget the players deffered some of their wages, we’ll need to pay that back to him

just because we are in the middle of pandemic does not mean the value of assets goes down , people pray when cash flow is short and look at taking advantage, To make a quick buck

[mushRTID]

If he’s under contract I don’t see why it’s not that simple.

Unless we are absolutely desperate for some money, stand firm and let him go at the end of the season.

We’re in a superb position, he could be a championship player with us.

Very likely he’s been tapped up with a big pay rise and he’s using “wants to be a championship player sooner rather than later” as an excuse. Half a year is nothing to wait

[pib]

If he’s under contract I don’t see why it’s not that simple.

Unless we are absolutely desperate for some money, stand firm and let him go at the end of the season.

We’re in a superb position, he could be a championship player with us.

Very likely he’s been tapped up with a big pay rise and he’s using “wants to be a championship player sooner rather than later” as an excuse. Half a year is nothing to wait

...and he’s only 24. He’s probably not going to peak for another 3-5 years.

[rich1471]

like SM said his head has been turned , by his agent or been tapped up , But when a player wants to leave all the selling club can do is get the best price possible

[Retdon1]

Thanks martin
Do you know if they’re miles away from our valuation or are we close enough that a deal seems likely

Well, firstly let me say that some of the transfer fees mentioned on this forum are well wide of the mark. In this current market fees are drastically reduced.

The Barnsley bids during the summer were particularly pathetic, and the Preston bids have exceeded them by some margin. But we're still a fair bit short and I'm not sure if we'll get there. Even if Preston did a lot of our supporters would be extremely disappointed.

The club are doing what they can, but if his head is turned, which it has been, then negotiating can be tricky.

The fees I’ve mostly seen mentioned on here are around the £2.5 - £3 million mark. If your saying that’s wide if the mark then the club are seriously  underValuing Ben

No, its not the club.

Despite what everybody thinks of Bens ability he's not attracting offers from multitudes of clubs. His view is that he's not getting any younger and he wants Championship football sooner rather than later. The club are just being realistic of current market conditions, plus the club have always been faithful to their word and have communicated to him faithfully and openly.

So basically we’re going to let him go cheap.... great idea

[dickos1]

What the whole whiteman scenario does show though is that if the board do invest in good young players then in a few years they will make money.
If we paid 250k now for someone like sims it would be a similar scenario in 2/3 seasons.
Our current model does cause some concern as we’re not really investing in purchasing players for fees similar to what we paid for ben

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Thanks martin
Do you know if they’re miles away from our valuation or are we close enough that a deal seems likely

Well, firstly let me say that some of the transfer fees mentioned on this forum are well wide of the mark. In this current market fees are drastically reduced.

The Barnsley bids during the summer were particularly pathetic, and the Preston bids have exceeded them by some margin. But we're still a fair bit short and I'm not sure if we'll get there. Even if Preston did a lot of our supporters would be extremely disappointed.

The club are doing what they can, but if his head is turned, which it has been, then negotiating can be tricky.

The fees I’ve mostly seen mentioned on here are around the £2.5 - £3 million mark. If your saying that’s wide if the mark then the club are seriously  underValuing Ben

No, its not the club.

Despite what everybody thinks of Bens ability he's not attracting offers from multitudes of clubs. His view is that he's not getting any younger and he wants Championship football sooner rather than later. The club are just being realistic of current market conditions, plus the club have always been faithful to their word and have communicated to him faithfully and openly.

So basically we’re going to let him go cheap.... great idea

So how would you negotiate then?

For example, let's say he has a clause, or a gentleman's agreement, that £1.5m triggers his ability to speak to other clubs. I have no clue whether he has such an agreement btw.

[sedwardsdrfc]

What the whole whiteman scenario does show though is that if the board do invest in good young players then in a few years they will make money.
If we paid 250k now for someone like sims it would be a similar scenario in 2/3 seasons.
Our current model does cause some concern as we’re not really investing in purchasing players for fees similar to what we paid for ben

Got to agree with this seems to have been a shift to loan signings been the main strategy, rather than using them to adding the bells & whistles to the squad, since Ferguson left.

Probably haven't much choice right now with the finances but this shift started before covid

[Padge_DRFC]

Just do what Dortmund did with Sancho to Man Utd. Pay this much by X date or goodbye. You know what will happen, someone will meet our 750k valuation on deadline day and we won't have enough time to sign a 16 year old on loan to replace him.

[wilts rover]

John Marquis 2018-2019 season

Scored 20 goals before the end of the January transfer window, when there was loads of speculation about a move that never happened.

From mid-January to the end of the season - 6 goals.

Why on earth would you want to keep a player who doesn't particuarly want to play for you and isn't contributing to the team?

[dickos1]

Because otherwise you sell a player for much less than his valuation

[DonnyBazR0ver]

What the whole whiteman scenario does show though is that if the board do invest in good young players then in a few years they will make money.
If we paid 250k now for someone like sims it would be a similar scenario in 2/3 seasons.
Our current model does cause some concern as we’re not really investing in purchasing players for fees similar to what we paid for ben

I think for that to happen, you need to have developed a relationship, understanding and trust in a manager over a longer period of time. We've not had that for a while.

We allow the manager to recruit as he sees fit and if, like DM, feels like he can get better quality from loans etc., then so be it. Whether that changes over time, it could very well work. But, I wouldn't expect the owners to start increasing the amount they put in to give a manager bigger pot to risk. That would have to come from income generated.

However, as you know, there are always risks attached, which includes managers leaving, which puts you back to square one unless you have a director of football which some managers don't like.

[dickos1]

On the same token though if you’re not giving money to the manager to get a better quality of player he’s less likely to stick around.
We’ve had opportunities with players like Wilks, Kane, If we’d splashed out on them we would have made money in the future, not guaranteed of Course.
Whiteman was a pretty safe bet as was the one with sharp but we’ve not really gone with any other save bets

[sedwardsdrfc]

What the whole whiteman scenario does show though is that if the board do invest in good young players then in a few years they will make money.
If we paid 250k now for someone like sims it would be a similar scenario in 2/3 seasons.
Our current model does cause some concern as we’re not really investing in purchasing players for fees similar to what we paid for ben

I think for that to happen, you need to have developed a relationship, understanding and trust in a manager over a longer period of time. We've not had that for a while.

We allow the manager to recruit as he sees fit and if, like DM, feels like he can get better quality from loans etc., then so be it. Whether that changes over time, it could very well work. But, I wouldn't expect the owners to start increasing the amount they put in to give a manager bigger pot to risk. That would have to come from income generated.

However, as you know, there are always risks attached, which includes managers leaving, which puts you back to square one unless you have a director of football which some managers don't like.

Transfers shouldn't be the managers responsibility this was a big topic after DF and GM both left us in a summer transfer window with little time. Of course the manager should have some say but the principal of signing certain types of players should run deeper than the manager position which is far too likely to change.

Lot's of clubs are run this way now it and for the most part they seem to get it right

[DonnyBazR0ver]

There are also lots of clubs who get it wrong and spend more than they can afford.

The Owners won't be upping their budget and let's not forget that things are changing with FFP anyway with tighter constraints.

[Alan Southstand]

There’s one thing for sure, DBR, if the Board don’t support the manager on the field, we’ll be looking for (yet another) manager. First of all I hope Ben stays and sees the season out with us, as we could well be in the Championship next season with our skipper at the helm.

 If he has to go, because someone pays what we want, then we need a quality player in before the window slams shut. Not some young loanee, with potential, but a strong lad who knows what’s required. In fact, we probably could get two in for the price of Ben, and I think we would probably need 2, given the sheer volume of fixtures.

[sedwardsdrfc]

There are also lots of clubs who get it wrong and spend more than they can afford.

The Owners won't be upping their budget and let's not forget that things are changing with FFP anyway with tighter constraints.

Thats different to what i'm saying but i agree and we shouldn't be upping budgets in the current climate as such as we'd like to go for it.

I'm saying if each manager has a completely different style then we'll need to recruit a new squad every other year if they are in charge of recruitment. Really we (the board) should set what they of club we are (play nice football, sign promising players & loans etc) and employ managers to fit that rather than shape the club to fit the manager only for them to leave after a season.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Chicken and egg situation really and there's no particular right or wrong.

We tend to give managers autonomy within the budget. If extra income comes in then great, although sometimes there are exceptional circumstances where if the manager can convince the board  of a player, such as Ben for instance, they may support that but generally, they're expected to manage with what they've got, and they know that from the start.

It's unrealistic to expect the board to move away from that anytime soon.

[dickos1]

I agree it’s unrealistic
I don’t however think it’s unrealistic for the board to get a very good replacement bought with the funds we get for whiteman.
We were all disappointed that we never replaced Marquis properly

[PDX_Rover]

They either meet our valuation or no deal. We are in the driving seat. He is our player for the next 2.5 years.

I wish it was that simple.

Why is it not that simple? He’s contracted to us. If another wants to secure his services now, then we put a valuation on him and if they don’t want to pay that, they don’t secure his services. Whiteman doesn’t strike me as the kind of player who would pout and refuse to play or whatever. He loves his football and he’s Captain and he’s adored here. I doubt he would want to be seen as a villain...

If he has had his head turned, fine. That doesn’t change the fact that he’s contracted to Doncaster Rovers Football Club and, as probably the best in the league in his position, he commands a premium. Minimum $3m up to $5m. People who say that’s not realistic in this economy - b*llocks to that. Preston have money through their owner. Pay up.

[no eyed deer]

If he goes, he goes.. This is football and they have a short career. Good luck to him.

A true professional who deserves his move, just Hope's it goes further that then championship.

[Janso]

I agree it’s unrealistic
I don’t however think it’s unrealistic for the board to get a very good replacement bought with the funds we get for whiteman.
We were all disappointed that we never replaced Marquis properly

I don't really get this thing with Marquis to be honest. Yeah it's nice to have a lad who spunks out goals in his sleep, but we've had goals coming from all over the team since he left.