Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: graingrover on January 13, 2018, 05:02:15 pm
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Watch that reply ... nailed on pen !
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Look at the result. No pen
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Watch that reply ... nailed on pen !
It was. Fergie had a right go at the ref on the pitch at FT
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Penalty all day long Fergie marched onto the pitch at FT like he was gonna lamp the ref
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Even Stevie Wonder would have given that as a pen!
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Just because the ref is shite doesn't mean it shouldn't have been a pen.
Their goal also shouldn't have been given
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The long and the short of it is that we just aren’t scoring enough goals. Strikers clearly not good enough at this moment in time. Can’t rely on refs decisions to bail us out the shit every week.
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Ferguson: "It's a clear penalty and there's a foul on Butler for their goal. The linesman was laughing at the end of the game. The standard of refereeing at this level is disgusting." #drfc
Hes not gonna get in trouble for that, is he?
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Ferguson: "It's a clear penalty and there's a foul on Butler for their goal. The linesman was laughing at the end of the game. The standard of refereeing at this level is disgusting." #drfc
Hes not gonna get in trouble for that, is he?
He’s not wrong though
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It's not relying on the ref to bail us out, look at the results today in league 1. All of them apart from one was settled by no more than a goal.
That's how tight this league is and decisions like that cost you,
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Ferguson: "It's a clear penalty and there's a foul on Butler for their goal. The linesman was laughing at the end of the game. The standard of refereeing at this level is disgusting." #drfc
Hes not gonna get in trouble for that, is he?
Probably but he's absolutely right and imo should tell it how it is.
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I wouldn't mind if it was occasionally but it is every bloody week.
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Happens in every league, Watford player high fived their equaliser in apparently if prem can't get it right we've on chance
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Almost repeat of last weeks assault on Copps
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Shoot the referees :suicide:
There could be trouble.
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Watched on ifollow, looked like a definite penalty!
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Unfortunately Ferguson will be hit with a lengthy touchline ban for saying the ref should be shot.
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Unfortunately he needs to look at himself. His terrible substitutions cost us today. Bringing off a footballer and replacing him with a clown. I hope Alfie hasn't thrown his steel toe caps away he'll be needing them again within 2 years.
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Can’t blame him. Since he’s been here he’s always avoided going in on refs after mistakes have cost us. But enough is enough. Fair play to you Darren.
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Ferguson: "It's a clear penalty and there's a foul on Butler for their goal. The linesman was laughing at the end of the game. The standard of refereeing at this level is disgusting." #drfc
Hes not gonna get in trouble for that, is he?
Probably not Donnyosmond but they might have something to say about his suggestion to shoot them.
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I seem to remember Alex Ferguson was given quite a long ban (6 games maybe?) for slating a referee's fitness levels. Add in the suggestion that referees should be shot and I think we're in trouble.
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Even Stevie Wonder would have given that as a pen!
funny you said that but on radio Lincoln they said exactly the same thing "Even Stevie Wonder would have given that as a pen!" when Lincoln were denied a late penalty and they moaned like hell about the ref decisions generally saying it was a lottery which way decisions went
be interesting to see which was the more the cert pen
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Yes but bad officiating is Fergie’s get out most weeks
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Subs needed making as we were getting overrun!
May was awful though but whiteman wasn't any better. Rowe also had a very poor game
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Good god listen to Ferguson on Radio Sheffield after the match. He lost it!
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Yes but bad officiating is Fergie’s get out most weeks
No he doesn't
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Fergie's a bit silly with his quotes and is likely to be punished. The problem is he's right and the EFL must know it. After that clueless idiot last week, we had another clown foisted on us. He was blowing for fouls that weren't and letting go those that were - it was just a lottery. You will never see a clearer pen, he simply stuck his leg out and pushed Copps over it!
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Good god listen to Ferguson on Radio Sheffield after the match. He lost it!
Shall we chip in to help with his imminent fine? 😂
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Good god listen to Ferguson on Radio Sheffield after the match. He lost it!
He's right with a lot of what he's said,
They're unfit, they can't keep up with play,
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I can’t understand why refs won’t give pens.
It is as though it isn’t allowed.
That today was more stonewall than anything I have seen this season but the ref bottled it.
He had failed to give quite a few free kicks for fouls around the pitch in general today and I said to my mate that there was no way he would give a pen and that is how it turned out.
Well done DF for telling the truth about it but I guess he will be fined.
Can’t comment on the foul on Butler as it wasn’t clear from the South Stand but judging by Andy’s reaction there had to be something.
I will look on the highlights later.
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Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".
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He's right though. Terrible decisions from the ref. Not just them but he allowed a ball to be played for a free kick right before the goal which was still.even bouncing.
That penalty decision was a disgrace.
Also right on may a terrible performance.
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Good god listen to Ferguson on Radio Sheffield after the match. He lost it!
Shall we chip in to help with his imminent fine? 😂
No !
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Good god listen to Ferguson on Radio Sheffield after the match. He lost it!
Shall we chip in to help with his imminent fine? 😂
No !
Why? He's right.
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Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".
I was surprised that May himself wasn’t substituted.
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May was atrocious
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Subs needed making as we were getting overrun!
May was awful though but whiteman wasn't any better. Rowe also had a very poor game
May will never play higher than this level
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Fergie will get the book thrown at him, and the FA will fine him and keep defending officials, yet I've seen supporters of at least a dozen football league clubs tweet in support of his statement. What's it going to take for the FA to sort it? There should be an agreement between the PFA and LMA to protest the standards.
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I'm sure we've a few that won't,
But that's the worst I've seen those three play
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I’m more concerned about our style of play. The officials are no worse than they’ve been for 20 years. Unfortunately at one time trying to get a fellow pro sent off was frowned upon, now it’s coached into players, ref’s have a thankless job
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I’m more concerned about our style of play. The officials are no worse than they’ve been for 20 years. Unfortunately at one time trying to get a fellow pro sent off was frowned upon, now it’s coached into players, ref’s have a thankless job
They didn't need to be fit 20 years ago cause the game was nowhere near as fast.
The players fitness levels now are incomparable to 20 years ago yet some of the refs are just fat middle aged blokes
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It doesn’t matter that he’s right about the officials. They were awful. The ref and linesman missed a red card offence with the elbow on Mason in the first half.
But you can’t go round saying you’d shoot the officials. That’s grossly irresponsible. I suspect he’s just put his job on the line.
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It's a load of crap when managers get banned for saying things about officials.
Instead of hiding behind the excuse 'officials have a tough job' why don't officials get punished when they have awful games?
All that happens is they're a Premier League referee, they get demoted to a game at our level or lower - and some other poor sods have to put up with their incompetence. If they're a FL referee, they might miss a weekend game and someone else then gets lumbered with them.
There's certain referees that should have been struck off years ago - Kettle to name one, that clown at Crystal Palace in our first season in the C'ship being another, and then there's the not-so-great Mr Russell of Pompey Kitson fame!
Wenger being banned recently was a joke of a decision by the FA when it's been shown the referee completely got it wrong.
The FA/PGMOL need to get their own house in order with some of the crock of crap they're giving out to certain clubs, before they go around banning people who can see some officials aren't up to scratch.
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The refereeing standards have declined markedly in the last few years.
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Heres one I typed earlier
The Ref however does not score well on previous visits and last time scored only 0.7 from a lot of votes but and its a big but that is 10 times HIGHER than the Ref last week got - so we need to take him out of the equaition and not end up thinking he has cost us any Points
COYR
:that: :scarf:
He scored 0.7 when he Reffed us v Crewe last January and most of the people raved about him giving Crewe foul after foul and yet denying a stonewall Penalty when Copps was axed down Deja effin Vu
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I can’t understand why refs won’t give pens.
It is as though it isn’t allowed.
That today was more stonewall than anything I have seen this season but the ref bottled it.
He had failed to give quite a few free kicks for fouls around the pitch in general today and I said to my mate that there was no way he would give a pen and that is how it turned out.
Well done DF for telling the truth about it but I guess he will be fined.
Can’t comment on the foul on Butler as it wasn’t clear from the South Stand but judging by Andy’s reaction there had to be something.
I will look on the highlights later.
On the reply is was blatant that butler had been pushed from behind..
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Dickos
Then maybe we should pay the refs £2000 per week and have 25 year old professionals?
If you want to continue with a system where refs are paid a few hundred quid a match, then you have to accept that they are (very) semi pro and therefore not perfect. Especially if you yourself are a thoroughly less than perfect manager who is paid many times the ref’s salary and still regularly f**ks up.
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One where VAR would have been useful
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I don’t want to be too harsh on May as I like him, but he was very poor today. Needs someone to have a word with him as everything he did was so rushed and frantic. The needless foul that resulted in the free kick that led to their goal has cost us. He is better than that awful cameo showed. As someone else has alluded to above, shortly after coming on it was already crossing my mind that we could take him off and bring Mandeville on.
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Subs needed making as we were getting overrun!
May was awful though but whiteman wasn't any better. Rowe also had a very poor game
I thought Rowe played well in the first half and totally disappeared after being shunted out onto the left hand side. It is blatantly obvious that there is no point playing him there and he is much more effective in a central role.
But, despite Ferguson's subs/formation change not paying off I'm not criticising him tonight after hearing that post-match interview. He is spot on with every point, especially the officials and it needed saying. I don't blame him for losing his rag. He was dead right about May as well unfortunately.
BST - Not a prayer that Fergie's job is on the line, that's a silly thing to say in my opinion. Of course he shouldn't say that about officials and he probably will be fined and/or banned but everyone at Rovers will be in agreement with him and rightly so, because it's about time someone took these beyond shit referees to task. The entire system needs looking at because all it's produced is inept muppets ruining the game week after week.
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Dickos
Then maybe we should pay the refs £2000 per week and have 25 year old professionals?
If you want to continue with a system where refs are paid a few hundred quid a match, then you have to accept that they are (very) semi pro and therefore not perfect. Especially if you yourself are a thoroughly less than perfect manager who is paid many times the ref’s salary and still regularly f**ks up.
I know all that, I was simply responding to the point that the standards hasn't detioriorated, when it obviously has.
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Players make a mistake and it gets forgotten about Refs make mistakes and all hell breaks loose. Why should there be different rules or approaches for the players and for the refs ? The question is rhetorical.
The truth is the standard of refereeing is declining at all levels in the UK and the real question that is demanded is why and what can be done about it. I would submit that one reason is that too many Junior referees quit the game because they don't see any good reason why they should be abused, insulted and threatened with violence for a 20 quid fee in parks football every weekend. If stricter penalties were applied both on and off the pitch, the Rugby Union model would be a good approach, then there would be a much larger pool of talented officials to choose from.
Rather than blame individuals for being insufficiently skilled or capable or for making mistakes we should blame the system that put them on the pitch.
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Possibly the worst individual performance by a Rovers player since Tomi Ameobi. As BST says Fergie could well have put his job on the line with the shooting comment.
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It doesn’t matter that he’s right about the officials. They were awful. The ref and linesman missed a red card offence with the elbow on Mason in the first half.
But you can’t go round saying you’d shoot the officials. That’s grossly irresponsible. I suspect he’s just put his job on the line.
His job on the line? Seems a slight over reaction.
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I’m more concerned about our style of play. The officials are no worse than they’ve been for 20 years. Unfortunately at one time trying to get a fellow pro sent off was frowned upon, now it’s coached into players, ref’s have a thankless job
They didn't need to be fit 20 years ago cause the game was nowhere near as fast.
The players fitness levels now are incomparable to 20 years ago yet some of the refs are just fat middle aged blokes
Absolute bollox
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It doesn’t matter that he’s right about the officials. They were awful. The ref and linesman missed a red card offence with the elbow on Mason in the first half.
But you can’t go round saying you’d shoot the officials. That’s grossly irresponsible. I suspect he’s just put his job on the line.
His job on the line? Seems a slight over reaction.
It's an interesting suggestion from BST. In my line of work I'd certainly be out the door if I made comments like Ferguson's.
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Ha ha
What is?
So your telling me the players aren't fitter now than 20 years ago?
Even the players from that era openly admit that
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I don’t want to be too harsh on May as I like him, but he was very poor today. Needs someone to have a word with him as everything he did was so rushed and frantic. The needless foul that resulted in the free kick that led to their goal has cost us. He is better than that awful cameo showed. As someone else has alluded to above, shortly after coming on it was already crossing my mind that we could take him off and bring Mandeville on.
No we should have taken Marquis off and replaced him with stoke mandeville
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It doesn’t matter that he’s right about the officials. They were awful. The ref and linesman missed a red card offence with the elbow on Mason in the first half.
But you can’t go round saying you’d shoot the officials. That’s grossly irresponsible. I suspect he’s just put his job on the line.
His job on the line? Seems a slight over reaction.
It's an interesting suggestion from BST. In my line of work I'd certainly be out the door if I made comments like Ferguson's.
Depends who you're making the comments about, the referees aren't his boss, if he'd said this about his bosses then maybe
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I’m more concerned about our style of play. The officials are no worse than they’ve been for 20 years. Unfortunately at one time trying to get a fellow pro sent off was frowned upon, now it’s coached into players, ref’s have a thankless job
They didn't need to be fit 20 years ago cause the game was nowhere near as fast.
The players fitness levels now are incomparable to 20 years ago yet some of the refs are just fat middle aged blokes
Absolute bollox
I hate to say this, but I agree with Dickos on this.
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Subs needed making as we were getting overrun!
May was awful though but whiteman wasn't any better. Rowe also had a very poor game
I thought Rowe played well in the first half and totally disappeared after being shunted out onto the left hand side. It is blatantly obvious that there is no point playing him there and he is much more effective in a central role.
But, despite Ferguson's subs/formation change not paying off I'm not criticising him tonight after hearing that post-match interview. He is spot on with every point, especially the officials and it needed saying. I don't blame him for losing his rag. He was dead right about May as well unfortunately.
BST - Not a prayer that Fergie's job is on the line, that's a silly thing to say in my opinion. Of course he shouldn't say that about officials and he probably will be fined and/or banned but everyone at Rovers will be in agreement with him and rightly so, because it's about time someone took these beyond shit referees to task. The entire system needs looking at because all it's produced is inept muppets ruining the game week after week.
Actually RoversAlias, I thing BST has called it right. I suspect club management may take a very dim view of what Fergie has said. They're trying to build a club with a growing fan base based on getting more families and youngsters in. Public comments like that is not the sort of example they will want set.
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It doesn’t matter that he’s right about the officials. They were awful. The ref and linesman missed a red card offence with the elbow on Mason in the first half.
But you can’t go round saying you’d shoot the officials. That’s grossly irresponsible. I suspect he’s just put his job on the line.
His job on the line? Seems a slight over reaction.
It's an interesting suggestion from BST. In my line of work I'd certainly be out the door if I made comments like Ferguson's.
No way will he lose his job for making those comments.
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It doesn’t matter that he’s right about the officials. They were awful. The ref and linesman missed a red card offence with the elbow on Mason in the first half.
But you can’t go round saying you’d shoot the officials. That’s grossly irresponsible. I suspect he’s just put his job on the line.
His job on the line? Seems a slight over reaction.
It's an interesting suggestion from BST. In my line of work I'd certainly be out the door if I made comments like Ferguson's.
Depends who you're making the comments about, the referees aren't his boss, if he'd said this about his bosses then maybe
No, I'd be sacked if I said it about other agencies I work with. He won't be sacked though, obviously.
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Again, I get it and agree it is inappropriate but I have faith that Bramall, Watson, Blunt et al are sensible and smart enough to take that comment in its context. Especially if they all saw the game today as I expect they did.
Just the other day I used the same expression to describe someone I felt had been inept in something. It's an exaggerative, flippant remark said by someone who is understandably pissed off. The hierarchy at the club will not look dimly on Ferguson for it, and he won't even need talking to because I guarantee you that Fergie himself will admit he shouldn't have said it.
The refereeing body/FA coming down hard on him is a different story of course.
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Ha ha
What is?
So your telling me the players aren't fitter now than 20 years ago?
Even the players from that era openly admit that
Errr which players. The ones you manage on football manager 1998 ?
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He is a public figure and has made an irresponsible statement that could lead some fool to think any form of physical violence against a referee is acceptable. "Sack him" or "give him his P45" or whatever, but "shoot him" I would expect is going to lead to a tonne of bricks currently being ordered from Soho Square for express delivery to the Keepmoat Stadium.
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Again, I get it and agree it is inappropriate but I have faith that Bramall, Watson, Blunt et al are sensible and smart enough to take that comment in its context. Especially if they all saw the game today as I expect they did.
Just the other day I used the same expression to describe someone I felt had been inept in something. It's an exaggerative, flippant remark said by someone who is understandably pissed off. The hierarchy at the club will not look dimly on Ferguson for it, and he won't even need talking to because I guarantee you that Fergie himself will admit he shouldn't have said it.
The refereeing body/FA coming down hard on him is a different story of course.
If the owners watched the same shite I have to endure they’d surely sack him !
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Ha ha
What is?
So your telling me the players aren't fitter now than 20 years ago?
Even the players from that era openly admit that
Errr which players. The ones you manage on football manager 1998 ?
You're either winding me up or just thick.
Players used to go out on the beer after training every day, they had no diet, training was completely different
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Again, I get it and agree it is inappropriate but I have faith that Bramall, Watson, Blunt et al are sensible and smart enough to take that comment in its context. Especially if they all saw the game today as I expect they did.
Just the other day I used the same expression to describe someone I felt had been inept in something. It's an exaggerative, flippant remark said by someone who is understandably pissed off. The hierarchy at the club will not look dimly on Ferguson for it, and he won't even need talking to because I guarantee you that Fergie himself will admit he shouldn't have said it.
The refereeing body/FA coming down hard on him is a different story of course.
If the owners watched the same shite I have to endure they’d surely sack him !
This guy was attempting to defend esdaille the other day! Are we sure it's not the same fella
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It’s just a harmless turn of phrase. I don’t think he was suggesting we should get armed and blow their brains out from the stands.
But we live in a generation where ”we are offended” by pretty much anything.
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RA
You reckon Ferguson is right to say that he would shoot refs and that he should only get a slap on the wrist then we have different standards.
Football managers are highly paid professionals. They have a social responsibility. That Kitson Mourinho hounded a referee to the point that the ref was getting death threats from Chelsea fans and had to retire early. Ferguson talking like this is massively unprofessional. It reflects on the club and it normalises a culture where hard-working, not very well-paid, honest but fallible officials become the target for abuse.
If I were the club owner, I’d tell him to call a press conference tomorrow and apologise unreservedly, or I would sack him.
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Ha ha
What is?
So your telling me the players aren't fitter now than 20 years ago?
Even the players from that era openly admit that
Errr which players. The ones you manage on football manager 1998 ?
Of course players are much fitter than they were twenty years ago.
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RA
You reckon Ferguson is right to say that he would shoot refs and that he should only get a slap on the wrist then we have different standards.
Football managers are highly paid professionals. They have a social responsibility. That Kitson Mourinho hounded a referee to the point that the ref was getting death threats from Chelsea fans and had to retire early. Ferguson talking like this is massively unprofessional. It reflects on the club and it normalises a culture where hard-working, not very well-paid, honest but fallible officials become the target for abuse.
If I were the club owner, I’d tell him to call a press conference tomorrow and apologise unreservedly, or I would sack him.
Give over
You're not telling me you think he was being serious? It was a throw away comment, a poor one.
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If I heard it right I think Fergie's comment is being taken out of context. He was asked what should be done about the poor standard of refereeing and he replied, 'what can you do? Shoot them"?
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It’s just a harmless turn of phrase. I don’t think he was suggesting we should get armed and blow their brains out from the stands.
But we live in a generation where ”we are offended” by pretty much anything.
We also live in a generation where anyone who say that comments or certain behaviours are idiotic or harmful is accused of being "offended" at everything.
I'm not offended by what Ferguson has said, I just think it's ridiculously unprofessional and brings unnecessary negative attention onto the club.
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If I heard it right I think Fergie's comment is being taken out of context. He was asked what should be done about the poor standard of refereeing and he replied, 'what can you do? Shoot them"?
And thats how it came across to me, the media wil blow it well out of proportion as usual
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I think it could bring positive attention, lots of fans around the country will feel the same way
The standard at times is disgraceful
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If I heard it right I think Fergie's comment is being taken out of context. He was asked what should be done about the poor standard of refereeing and he replied, 'what can you do? Shoot them"?
And thats how it came across to me, the media wil blow it well out of proportion as usual
And me
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RA
You reckon Ferguson is right to say that he would shoot refs and that he should only get a slap on the wrist then we have different standards.
Football managers are highly paid professionals. They have a social responsibility. That Kitson Mourinho hounded a referee to the point that the ref was getting death threats from Chelsea fans and had to retire early. Ferguson talking like this is massively unprofessional. It reflects on the club and it normalises a culture where hard-working, not very well-paid, honest but fallible officials become the target for abuse.
If I were the club owner, I’d tell him to call a press conference tomorrow and apologise unreservedly, or I would sack him.
I have already stated twice in this thread that I agree it isn't a good nor appropriate thing to say, BST. I don't believe it is acceptable but I also don't believe it merits what response you're suggesting by the club. By the FA/Referees board, absolutely. I expect a fine and ban. I expect not a peep from Rovers' board nor should there be.
I'm glad you're not the club owner in that case BST, as a full-on press conference to apologise for a throwaway, flippant remark would be an over-reaction in the extreme.
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Again, I get it and agree it is inappropriate but I have faith that Bramall, Watson, Blunt et al are sensible and smart enough to take that comment in its context. Especially if they all saw the game today as I expect they did.
Just the other day I used the same expression to describe someone I felt had been inept in something. It's an exaggerative, flippant remark said by someone who is understandably pissed off. The hierarchy at the club will not look dimly on Ferguson for it, and he won't even need talking to because I guarantee you that Fergie himself will admit he shouldn't have said it.
The refereeing body/FA coming down hard on him is a different story of course.
If the owners watched the same shite I have to endure they’d surely sack him !
This guy was attempting to defend esdaille the other day! Are we sure it's not the same fella
What just because I also don’t tend to agree with everything you say. Grow up man !
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Nobody else was defending the nonsense he was spouting and now your spouting similar nonsense
Maybe its a coincidence, but I doubt it
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I think it could bring positive attention, lots of fans around the country will feel the same way
The standard at times is disgraceful
Rapid decline in quality and standards in refereeing over the last few years.
It does need highlighting because unless something is done to improve the officials it will continue to get worse.
What is wrong with giving a penalty?
It is as though they aren’t allowed to do it.
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As for negative attention for the club? Nigh on every neutral fan I've spoken to about it or seen on Twitter is actually in agreement with him. Most fans (and I dare say in private, players and certainly managers) will smile and agree with those comments from Fergie because we and they all understand how frustrating it is to see bad officiating constantly ruining games, wrecking club's fortunes and overshadowing the actual football.
I bet John Ryan will love what Ferguson had to say about them, we all remember how well he got on with the officials and he was the owner of course of this club not so long ago!
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I think it could bring positive attention, lots of fans around the country will feel the same way
The standard at times is disgraceful
Rapid decline in quality and standards in refereeing over the last few years.
It does need highlighting because unless something is done to improve the officials it will continue to get worse.
What is wrong with giving a penalty?
It is as though they aren’t allowed to do it.
Ive seen three that were given today in various games and none of the three looked like they were Pens to me AND none of the three were therefore as clear cut as the one we did not get !
Anybody got video of the Pen we did not get with the same Ref last January v Crewe ?
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I think it could bring positive attention, lots of fans around the country will feel the same way
The standard at times is disgraceful
Rapid decline in quality and standards in refereeing over the last few years.
It does need highlighting because unless something is done to improve the officials it will continue to get worse.
What is wrong with giving a penalty?
It is as though they aren’t allowed to do it.
Anywhere else on the pitch he gives a free kick, as he demonstrated 30 seconds later when he gave a free kick to Plymouth
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I think it could bring positive attention, lots of fans around the country will feel the same way
The standard at times is disgraceful
Rapid decline in quality and standards in refereeing over the last few years.
It does need highlighting because unless something is done to improve the officials it will continue to get worse.
What is wrong with giving a penalty?
It is as though they aren’t allowed to do it.
IMHO, and I may be in a minority here, players and coaches have to accept some responsibility. The increase in diving and cheating, and the increase in subtlety thereof, has made a referee's job much much more difficult, to the extent that they no longer are able to believe that obvious looking things really are obvious any more.
Retrospective bans will eventually help.
VAR will help, but will that be rolled out below the Premier League?
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He would not have had to say it 10yrs ago, Our then chairman would have said it for him.
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Donald Trump has just tweeted something very nasty but who will fine and sack him. In this case though I don't agree one jot with Trumps comments but Fergy's off the cuff in the heat of the moment well yeah.
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I think it could bring positive attention, lots of fans around the country will feel the same way
The standard at times is disgraceful
Rapid decline in quality and standards in refereeing over the last few years.
It does need highlighting because unless something is done to improve the officials it will continue to get worse.
What is wrong with giving a penalty?
It is as though they aren’t allowed to do it.
IMHO, and I may be in a minority here, players and coaches have to accept some responsibility. The increase in diving and cheating, and the increase in subtlety thereof, has made a referee's job much much more difficult, to the extent that they no longer are able to believe that obvious looking things really are obvious any more.
Retrospective bans will eventually help.
VAR will help, but will that be rolled out below the Premier League?
Dutch, I agree about the diving etc but sometimes refs have to be honest enough to give the obvious ones, like todays’.
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Ha ha
What is?
So your telling me the players aren't fitter now than 20 years ago?
Even the players from that era openly admit that
Errr which players. The ones you manage on football manager 1998 ?
Alan Shearer regular expresses his amazement at how much more hard running players do today compared to what he did. There’s Opta stats going back that long and it’s unarguable. Players today regularly run up to 4km further during a match than players were doing 20 years ago.
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RA
You reckon Ferguson is right to say that he would shoot refs and that he should only get a slap on the wrist then we have different standards.
Football managers are highly paid professionals. They have a social responsibility. That Kitson Mourinho hounded a referee to the point that the ref was getting death threats from Chelsea fans and had to retire early. Ferguson talking like this is massively unprofessional. It reflects on the club and it normalises a culture where hard-working, not very well-paid, honest but fallible officials become the target for abuse.
If I were the club owner, I’d tell him to call a press conference tomorrow and apologise unreservedly, or I would sack him.
Give over
You're not telling me you think he was being serious? It was a throw away comment, a poor one.
No. Of course I don’t think he was being serious. I think he was being utterly unprofessional, stupid and out of control.
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Which is what happens when managers get interviewed ten mins after a game.
He's not the first manager to say something because he's wound up
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Did you even listen to it BST? "Out of control" it was not. Off the cuff, flippant and exaggerative are the terms I'd describe it as.
He certainly wasn't being stupid either, because he is right that this display by the officials was beyond pathetic and something needs doing about it not just in our games but across all of football.
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Which is what happens when managers get interviewed ten mins after a game.
He's not the first manager to say something because he's wound up
I have often said the same.
Not the best time to ask about contentious decisions.
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DF has made an ill judged comment in the aftershock of seeing an incompetent referee/officials being presented with an easy decision and getting it totally wrong.
He'll regret the comment and probably be punished by the FA. That's enough.
This,should not mask the real issue which is the focus on the standard of refereeing. Whilst thier standard of fitness may be an issue, that wasn't the cause of his, and his assistant failing to see what everyone else saw. The call for VAR will only grow as long as we don't address the standard of referees and their professionalism. Other sports do not get major decisions wrong as frequently as we do in football. So much so, the game becomes a lottery.
I am equally concerned about our ability to gift the initiative to our opposition when we're in control of the game. Straight from the off in the second half you could see we conceded territory with Houghton dropping onto the toes of the back line. Then anxiety sets in and start making simple things look difficult. Compounded when Alfie came on.
We should have been able to wrestle control of the game back and get to a position where the ref couldn't influence the result.
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Another comment i will make is about radio Sheffield. They could not wait to broadcast his after the match statement. No chance of them holding it back, lets broadcast that we think he will get into trouble, and low and behold we are all the news just after 5 pm. instead of the usual 6 20pm.
If I was Fergie that would be the last after match interview, which as a supporter I would not like, but that lot could go do one for me if that is their game. And let's face it, we are only an after thought anyway, they will be discussing what colour toilet paper the new Wendy manager uses for the next two weeks.
The most interesting comment to me in the interview was,"Alfie May I dont know what he was doing"enough said.
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RA
Yes, I heard it.
He WAS out of control. He was set a trap by the interviewer and he dived into it because he wasn’t calm enough to bite his tongue.
As I say, if you think that a manager saying he would shoot referees is something that needs to be said, then we have very different takes on football.
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RA
Yes, I heard it.
As I say, if you think that a manager saying he would shoot referees is something that needs to be said, then we have very different takes on football.
It doesn't need to be but it's good to see characters in football and the frustration shows he cares. These decisions could make a big difference come end of the season.
The language in my workplace of late is a tad more colourful than this also.
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RA
Yes, I heard it.
As I say, if you think that a manager saying he would shoot referees is something that needs to be said, then we have very different takes on football.
He did n't say he would shoot them, he was answering a question with a question, as has been said, the whole comment has been taken out of context
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Obviously Ferguson was wound up and if he had been interviewed an hour later he would probably not have said the same words.
However if it brings into focus how shocking some decisions are and standards somehow improve then it will have been worthwhile.
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Exactly filo, massive overreaction from billy this.
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It doesn’t matter that he’s right about the officials. They were awful. The ref and linesman missed a red card offence with the elbow on Mason in the first half.
But you can’t go round saying you’d shoot the officials. That’s grossly irresponsible. I suspect he’s just put his job on the line.
Heat of the moment Billy. We've all done it
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RA
Yes, I heard it.
He WAS out of control. He was set a trap by the interviewer and he dived into it because he wasn’t calm enough to bite his tongue.
As I say, if you think that a manager saying he would shoot referees is something that needs to be said, then we have very different takes on football.
Once again I didn't say that, how many more times do I have to stress that I agree that it was inappropriate and he shouldn't have said? You have blown this whole thing way out of proportion I'm afraid, I hear and say flippant remarks like this myself and hear them all the time in the workplace and in social situations.
Selby, Ferguson is obligated to speak to the press after the game and I think you too are over-reacting a bit. You're basically criticising journalists for doing their jobs. They are there to get useable quotes to run stories with, which is exactly what they did. They are certainly not there to cater to the whims of the managers or clubs so they don't get into trouble, as that is against what the free and impartial press is there for. It was a reasonable question to put to Fergie and he responded in the way he did, he wasn't baited or pushed into it. He was understandably furious with what he had just had to deal with from the officials.
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What should the authorities do about Fergie's comment? Shoot him?
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ANy 1 got a link to the interview ?
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Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".
If he knows May is not good enough, which a few of us have been pointing out on here for a number of weeks then why has he been persisting with him and not giving a starting place to Mandeville.
There has to be a reason doesn’t there? He is scoring for fun in the development games and has been man of the match in just about all Checkatrade and development games. Something does not add up.
Today Beestin started and did very little until he produced that bit of magic to score the goal.
Any Premier league striker would have been praised for such a quality finish. Having said that Beestin is a long way short of Mandeville’s overall game especially playing as a front man. I don’t think that is Beestin’s natural position.
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RA
The issue is that (I assume) you’re not a national figure (Ferguson certainly is now) and if you say something out of turn, it doesn’t go nationwide. Any manager talking like that is going make the news. It goes with the job and he’s just done something extremely unprofessional. That wasn’t “being a character.” It was being an unprofessional idiot.
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ANy 1 got a link to the interview ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05ts6t0
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Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".
If he knows May is not good enough, which a few of us have been pointing out on here for a number of weeks then why has he been persisting with him and not giving a starting place to Mandeville.
There has to be a reason doesn’t there? He is scoring for fun in the development games and has been man of the match in just about all Checkatrade and development games. Something does not add up.
Today Beestin started and did very little until he produced that bit of magic to score the goal.
Any Premier league striker would have been praised for such a quality finish. Having said that Beestin is a long way short of Mandeville’s overall game especially playing as a front man. I don’t think that is Beestin’s natural position.
He wasn't suggesting may isn't good enough he said he he wasnt good enough today after coming on
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He should be sacked for such a statement :whistle:
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Donald Trump has just tweeted something very nasty but who will fine and sack him. In this case though I don't agree one jot with Trumps comments but Fergy's off the cuff in the heat of the moment well yeah.
Exactly it was said in total exasperation only 20 mins after the final whistle. To be honest if it had been me after 2 consecutive matches with that level of incompetence from the officials, I think my language would have been xxx certificate. When he said “the ref’s should be shot” it was not a literal ‘shot’ he just meant they should be reprimanded with a meaningfull punishment.
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I suspect after DF’s comments he may find himself in the stands for the next few games.
COYR
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Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".
If he knows May is not good enough, which a few of us have been pointing out on here for a number of weeks then why has he been persisting with him and not giving a starting place to Mandeville.
There has to be a reason doesn’t there? He is scoring for fun in the development games and has been man of the match in just about all Checkatrade and development games. Something does not add up.
Today Beestin started and did very little until he produced that bit of magic to score the goal.
Any Premier league striker would have been praised for such a quality finish. Having said that Beestin is a long way short of Mandeville’s overall game especially playing as a front man. I don’t think that is Beestin’s natural position.
Sorry to disagree Campsall but I thought Beestin did well until an injury forced him to be subbed.
Some of his first touches were sublime and he linked play up very well.
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Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".
If he knows May is not good enough, which a few of us have been pointing out on here for a number of weeks then why has he been persisting with him and not giving a starting place to Mandeville.
There has to be a reason doesn’t there? He is scoring for fun in the development games and has been man of the match in just about all Checkatrade and development games. Something does not add up.
Today Beestin started and did very little until he produced that bit of magic to score the goal.
Any Premier league striker would have been praised for such a quality finish. Having said that Beestin is a long way short of Mandeville’s overall game especially playing as a front man. I don’t think that is Beestin’s natural position.
Sorry to disagree Campsall but I thought Beestin did well until an injury forced him to be subbed.
Some of his first touches were sublime and he linked play up very well.
Yes I agree with you. The point i was making is that he was pretty anonymous in the first 20/25 mins of the match. After that very good and the goal sublime.
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Heat of the moment and his frustration is obvious. He is answering a question of what do you want me to do? with a rhetorical Shoot them? However his little caveat of " it would be a good idea" doesn't help his cause and I fully expect the book to be thrown at him.
Regarding May, he doesn't suggest he isn't good enough;just his performance today wasn't good enough.
Again he also thinks it was all we deserved.
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Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".
If he knows May is not good enough, which a few of us have been pointing out on here for a number of weeks then why has he been persisting with him and not giving a starting place to Mandeville.
There has to be a reason doesn’t there? He is scoring for fun in the development games and has been man of the match in just about all Checkatrade and development games. Something does not add up.
Today Beestin started and did very little until he produced that bit of magic to score the goal.
Any Premier league striker would have been praised for such a quality finish. Having said that Beestin is a long way short of Mandeville’s overall game especially playing as a front man. I don’t think that is Beestin’s natural position.
He wasn't suggesting may isn't good enough he said he he wasnt good enough today after coming on
He said “”he isn’t good enough” “must be lacking in confidence or something”
The fact is Alfie runs round with his head down and doesn’t have any vision, it’s as though he has blinkers on.
I don’t dislike Alfie, I just don’t think he is ready for League 1 football yet. Sub at best (as today) & used as an impact player when opposing defences are tiring in the last 20 mins. What he was doing today I don’t know. I am not too sure he will either if anyone asks him.
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He said it's not good enough, and i don't know what he was upto
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Fergie obviously meant he wasn't good enough today. If he'd meant he wasn't good enough in the past, he wouldn't have played him in the past!
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Rovers Alias, not at all am I saying that the reporter was not doing his job, I was trying to point out they do not do it other weeks, and dont bother with a report about us until 6 20 pm, and then only if the two Sheffield managers are otherwise occupied.
And if Fergie has to attend, he wants to practice a deep, slow Portuguese accent and talk for 15 minutes sending everyone to sleep, bored to death.
I bet Radio Wales is a barrel of laughs now.
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I personally don’t have a problem with fergie venting his spleen. The ref was a complete joke!! Well said Darren 😀👍
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Referees should e made to whatch the video footage of decisions like that alongside the managers and the ref assesor and explain why he made the decision he did.
There should also be a dubious decision committee, and if they find the ref as been wrong the ref should serve a ban
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Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".
If he knows May is not good enough, which a few of us have been pointing out on here for a number of weeks then why has he been persisting with him and not giving a starting place to Mandeville.
There has to be a reason doesn’t there? He is scoring for fun in the development games and has been man of the match in just about all Checkatrade and development games. Something does not add up.
Today Beestin started and did very little until he produced that bit of magic to score the goal.
Any Premier league striker would have been praised for such a quality finish. Having said that Beestin is a long way short of Mandeville’s overall game especially playing as a front man. I don’t think that is Beestin’s natural position.
He wasn't suggesting may isn't good enough he said he he wasnt good enough today after coming on
No he was asking why was giving away an Unnecessary free kick in a dangerous position. Alfie is good player who’s abilities need recogniting and using to a better effect than just throwing him upfront to try and our jump 7’ centre halfs . His pace and close control has got him goals and is an impact player who can open defenses up .
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It's a pity he didn't say "sack them" rather than "shoot them" because everything else he said is spot on. The standard of officiating in League One is much, much lower than it was five years ago.
There is a reason for this. Any experienced officials who are half decent have been promoted to Select Group 2 so they mostly referee Championship games. We are left with either rookies or ones who are too poor to make the cut. And since they removed the retirement age there is very little natural wastage.
Referees like Haines should have been removed from the list a while ago.
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Fergie was already wound up after getting quite a bit of verbals from the stands.
I don't get where this myth about Alfie having any pace comes from. He is one of our slowest players. His second touch is usually a slide tackle or at least 10 yards away from his first.
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Just seen the highlights. Their goal should never stand in a million years.
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Ha ha
What is?
So your telling me the players aren't fitter now than 20 years ago?
Even the players from that era openly admit that
They might have sports science these days, more gym equipment and all that stuff, but without a bit of hunger and desire and wanting to scrap for something worth having, being fitter counts for nothing.
Ask Harry Forrester!
If he come up against a player from 20 years ago, he'd cower and be anonymous all game whilst some big boy bosses him for 90 minutes.
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Rovers Alias, not at all am I saying that the reporter was not doing his job, I was trying to point out they do not do it other weeks, and dont bother with a report about us until 6 20 pm, and then only if the two Sheffield managers are otherwise occupied.
And if Fergie has to attend, he wants to practice a deep, slow Portuguese accent and talk for 15 minutes sending everyone to sleep, bored to death.
I bet Radio Wales is a barrel of laughs now.
I didn't say that you did say they weren't doing their jobs, but you were criticising them for things they are supposed to do. The reason Radio Sheffield ran Fergie's comments as a key news piece is because what he said is worthy of it, whereas usually his standard comments on our League One game are not. BBC has the story on its main Football page now too, so saying he shouldn't speak to Radio Sheffield again is unfair on them, they did nothing wrong in any of this.
Also you've got to factor in that neither Sheffield club played today because they played out the dullest game of the season last night instead, promoting ourselves, Barnsley and Rotherham into the spotlight on the station for once.
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Highlights
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11207157/doncaster-1-1-plymouth
COYR
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It's a pity he didn't say "sack them" rather than "shoot them" because everything else he said is spot on. The standard of officiating in League One is much, much lower than it was five years ago.
There is a reason for this. Any experienced officials who are half decent have been promoted to Select Group 2 so they mostly referee Championship games. We are left with either rookies or ones who are too poor to make the cut. And since they removed the retirement age there is very little natural wastage.
Referees like Haines should have been removed from the list a while ago.
My guess is if you asked everyone who has been involved in football, whether that be fans, players, managers, journalists, etc, for their list of worst referees since the start of this decade then it'd be the same names that crop up over and over again.
You'd get a bit of slight variation from club to club, but certain shocking referees would predominantly be on these lists.
Ferguson has a point.
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Highlights
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11207157/doncaster-1-1-plymouth
COYR
It’s clear. Stonewaller
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Referees like Haines should have been removed from the list a while ago.
And replaced by...?
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Highlights
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11207157/doncaster-1-1-plymouth
COYR
Yes, looking at that, I think the ref should face the firing squad
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Highlights
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11207157/doncaster-1-1-plymouth
COYR
It’s clear. Stonewaller
and a clear foul on Butler before their goal.
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Makes me feel sick seeing those incidents again and having it confirmed that my first thoughts were right.
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Referees like Haines should have been removed from the list a while ago.
And replaced by...?
There are plenty of up and coming referees who have to stay on the National League because so few referees retire these days unless they pick up a bad injury. Yes, inexperienced referees make mistakes but if they have anything about them they will learn and get better. Haines was shocking in a game last season (which we won). The likes of Kettle, Boyeson and Woolmer are similar.
Put it this way BST, if you and I did our jobs as poorly as some officials do (referees and linesmen) we wouldn't stay in them for long.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oFzmbbCyAwqiOGUJG/giphy.gif)
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I'm more annoyed that we can't defend a set piece than the possible foul on Butler. It certainly isn't clear cut. We'd had a warning a few minutes before, yet defend it equally badly.
The pen is blatant.
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Referees should e made to whatch the video footage of decisions like that alongside the managers and the ref assesor and explain why he made the decision he did.
There should also be a dubious decision committee, and if they find the ref as been wrong the ref should serve a ban
why single out referees ?
should players who make glaring errors be forced to watch video footage of themselves f**king up, explain what they did wrong and face a fine and a ban ?
they're paid far, far more than the refs to do their jobs, and yet there's no clamour for retribution when they do wrong
it's the truest thing that can be said about football that poor decisions even themselves out for and against over time - there's no conspiracy against one club or another
staggers me why folk think that referees should be infallible when players who miss an open goal or fall on their arse to concede a goal get a free pass, or are forgiven the next match when they bury a half chance from twenty five yards to "set the record straight"; you can bet your arse that the same thing will happen in reverse at some point this season to even up the referee's collective account with rovers fans, while some other set of grunts will be apopleptic on a bury or shrewsbury or peterborough forum
if you remove errors from the game, by officials or players, you'd just as well give up and stay at home; that sort of controversy is integral the lifeblood of the thing, what keeps us enthralled and coming back time and time again; show me a game where every pass is spot on, every tackle well-timed, ever substitution correct, every official's call spot on and i'll show you the dullest f**king game imaginable
man up and stop whining - dear me....
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Referees should e made to whatch the video footage of decisions like that alongside the managers and the ref assesor and explain why he made the decision he did.
There should also be a dubious decision committee, and if they find the ref as been wrong the ref should serve a ban
why single out referees ?
should players who make glaring errors be forced to watch video footage of themselves f**king up, explain what they did wrong and face a fine and a ban ?
they're paid far, far more than the refs to do their jobs, and yet there's no clamour for retribution when they do wrong
it's the truest thing that can be said about football that poor decisions even themselves out for and against over time - there's no conspiracy against one club or another
staggers me why folk think that referees should be infallible when players who miss an open goal or fall on their arse to concede a goal get a free pass, or are forgiven the next match when they bury a half chance from twenty five yards to "set the record straight"; you can bet your arse that the same thing will happen in reverse at some point this season to even up the referee's collective account with rovers fans, while some other set of grunts will be apopleptic on a bury or shrewsbury or peterborough forum
if you remove errors from the game, by officials or players, you'd just as well give up and stay at home; that sort of controversy is integral the lifeblood of the thing, what keeps us enthralled and coming back time and time again; show me a game where every pass is spot on, every tackle well-timed, ever substitution correct, every official's call spot on and i'll show you the dullest f**king game imaginable
man up and stop whining - dear me....
Players do have to sit amongst their colleagues and their manager and watch a video of their mistakes
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I wasn't at the game but watching the highlights, and it might be my eyes, both of them fall into seen them given category but equally seen them turned away. First one. Jostling pulling, shoving etc at a set play- happens 4 or 5 times a game. Penalty. I can see why it wasn't awarded. Is there a defending toe on the ball? is it just a coming together? etc. Having said that, anywhere else on the pitch you get a free kick but that's because it is an easier decision to make.
Not as clear cut as I was expecting, having heard DF.
Edit. I've looked again. It is my eyes It's a definite pen. However I think it highlights that in real time with one look from one angle, it isn't easy .
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Yes but bad officiating is Fergie’s get out most weeks
Rubbish
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I wasn't at the game but watching the highlights, and it might be my eyes, both of them fall into seen them given category but equally seen them turned away. First one. Jostling pulling, shoving etc at a set play- happens 4 or 5 times a game. Penalty. I can see why it wasn't awarded. Is there a defending toe on the ball? is it just a coming together? etc. Having said that, anywhere else on the pitch you get a free kick but that's because it is an easier decision to make.
Not as clear cut as I was expecting, having heard DF.
Edit. I've looked again. It is my eyes It's a definite pen. However I think it highlights that in real time with one look from one angle, it isn't easy .
7k people at the game had one look in real time, I think everyone agreed it was a stonewaller. The ref was miles away from play, the lino was in a perfect postion but failed to raise his flag, mind, he only raised his flag when the ref told him to
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From what I remember the ref was around the D and he also has the eyes of the linesman from where he was stood.
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I wasn't at the game but watching the highlights, and it might be my eyes, both of them fall into seen them given category but equally seen them turned away. First one. Jostling pulling, shoving etc at a set play- happens 4 or 5 times a game. Penalty. I can see why it wasn't awarded. Is there a defending toe on the ball? is it just a coming together? etc. Having said that, anywhere else on the pitch you get a free kick but that's because it is an easier decision to make.
Not as clear cut as I was expecting, having heard DF.
Edit. I've looked again. It is my eyes It's a definite pen. However I think it highlights that in real time with one look from one angle, it isn't easy .
And therein lies the problem. Why is it an easier decision if it's outside of the box? A ref shouldn't be making decisions based on how likely they are to influence the game, he should be making them based on the rules of the game in a consistent manner.
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I wasn't at the game but watching the highlights, and it might be my eyes, both of them fall into seen them given category but equally seen them turned away. First one. Jostling pulling, shoving etc at a set play- happens 4 or 5 times a game. Penalty. I can see why it wasn't awarded. Is there a defending toe on the ball? is it just a coming together? etc. Having said that, anywhere else on the pitch you get a free kick but that's because it is an easier decision to make.
Not as clear cut as I was expecting, having heard DF.
Edit. I've looked again. It is my eyes It's a definite pen. However I think it highlights that in real time with one look from one angle, it isn't easy .
Jon, as soon as Copps stumbled and fell it was obvious it was a penalty. He was brought down.....simples.
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From what I remember the ref was around the D and he also has the eyes of the linesman from where he was stood.
The ref was still in the centre circle. The lino was bang in line.
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From what I remember the ref was around the D and he also has the eyes of the linesman from where he was stood.
He was halfway between the D and the centre circle, look at the highlightsthe last shot you see of the ref is in the centre circle, moments later the pass is made to Copps, unless he's got the pace of Ussain Bolt he wil have got nowhere near the D
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The ref was closer than me and you and you and you and you.....
We all got it right. There wasn't anything that would make it dubious. I am normally quite sympathetic to refs, but if he can't call that one, he should give up.
You watch, in his next game he'll give a penalty for a dive!,
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TRB
Would you do a “job” that took years of dedication and constant hard work to stay up to standard, but where you were regularly and publicly abused by thousands of fans and several gobshite managers for £8000 per year?
Haines refereed 22 league and cup matches last year. The average football league payment is, I believe, £3-500 per match. That would give him an income of £6,600-11,000. Most of his games were L1 and L2 so I’d guess his income would have been at the lower end of that range.
I think there’s a few people needing a bit of perspective here, in light of those numbers.
Here’s a thought. Instead of managers shooting their mouths off, why don’t they contribute 30% of their salaries to a pot to increase referees’ payments. Make it financially worthwhile for refs to get the kind of abuse that they have to deal with every week. Then you might make it a more attractive career choice and get a better standard of ref. Then they could feel free to complain if refs are shit.
If managers are not prepared to do that, perhaps they should have a look at their own pay slip before they go into press conferences spouting the kind of b*llocks that Ferguson did today.
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You make a good point about the financial implications BST. One which DF needs to bear in mind.
If you want professional refs then you have to pay them. So let's say that each becomes a full time operator rather than it being a job on the side. You want to attract high calibre individuals who will be incentivised to keep up to spec. Let's say for arguments sake £60k p.a.
That's around £55k more per season per club than each L1 and L2 referee gets under the present arrangement.
So, in simple terms, the cost of professionalising the system of L1 and L2 referees would essentially be the same as the cost of a half decent player at each club. And it would be the clubs, as a collective, that would have to bear the cost through some form of levy.
How many clubs would want or be able to to sign up to that? My bet is that most - certainly those in L2 - would take a chance on suffering the occasional dodgy decision instead.
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Now they're getting more money from tv deals they should invest this in professional referees like the championship has done
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There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.
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I wasn't at the game but watching the highlights, and it might be my eyes, both of them fall into seen them given category but equally seen them turned away. First one. Jostling pulling, shoving etc at a set play- happens 4 or 5 times a game. Penalty. I can see why it wasn't awarded. Is there a defending toe on the ball? is it just a coming together? etc. Having said that, anywhere else on the pitch you get a free kick but that's because it is an easier decision to make.
Not as clear cut as I was expecting, having heard DF.
Edit. I've looked again. It is my eyes It's a definite pen. However I think it highlights that in real time with one look from one angle, it isn't easy .
And therein lies the problem. Why is it an easier decision if it's outside of the box? A ref shouldn't be making decisions based on how likely they are to influence the game, he should be making them based on the rules of the game in a consistent manner.
I agree completely, it should be irrelevant where an incident occurs. A foul is a foul. However, we have all seen enough football to know that isn't the case. Why it isn't, I'm not really sure but it can be attributed to a number of different factors. Human nature must play a part. The repercussions and subsequent abuse an official gets from an incorrect decision, or say a decision based on the balance of probabilities, is going to be far greater if that decision involves an incident in the box then an incident on the halfway line.
Having said that. It's the sort of decision that you usually get at home. Another inconsistency that shouldn't have any relevance on a referee's decision- but does.
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For the first time for a long time BST I think you're talking utter rubbish. Yes Fergie's comments were harsh and over the top but for the first time in a while Fergie has shown some passion which most fans including myself have said he had lacked this season. Anybody at any standard of job gets carried away with their comments when faced with such idiotic decisions in their workplace its just unfortunate Fergie was being recorded at the time. Will or should he be sacked for this comment, no I hope not because I think our board have got enough common sense to think it was a heat of the moment comment that shouldn't be taken seriously, unlike some members of this board. Will Andy Haines receive any penalty for being totally and utterly useless? No because the FA has no realistic way of penalising a referee for making bad judgements and is unbelievably corrupt when it comes to clubs of a lower league.
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I wasn't at the game but watching the highlights, and it might be my eyes, both of them fall into seen them given category but equally seen them turned away. First one. Jostling pulling, shoving etc at a set play- happens 4 or 5 times a game. Penalty. I can see why it wasn't awarded. Is there a defending toe on the ball? is it just a coming together? etc. Having said that, anywhere else on the pitch you get a free kick but that's because it is an easier decision to make.
Not as clear cut as I was expecting, having heard DF.
Edit. I've looked again. It is my eyes It's a definite pen. However I think it highlights that in real time with one look from one angle, it isn't easy .
And therein lies the problem. Why is it an easier decision if it's outside of the box? A ref shouldn't be making decisions based on how likely they are to influence the game, he should be making them based on the rules of the game in a consistent manner.
I agree completely, it should be irrelevant where an incident occurs. A foul is a foul. However, we have all seen enough football to know that isn't the case. Why it isn't, I'm not really sure but it can be attributed to a number of different factors. Human nature must play a part. The repercussions and subsequent abuse an official gets from an incorrect decision, or say a decision based on the balance of probabilities, is going to be far greater if that decision involves an incident in the box then an incident on the halfway line.
Having said that. It's the sort of decision that you usually get at home. Another inconsistency that shouldn't have any relevance on a referee's decision- but does.
Very true, just more reasons to get VAR in at every level possible, as soon as possible - take as much pressure off the refs as possible by giving them the tools to do the job better.
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rtid
I’m surprised it’s the first time in a while. I talk b*llocks on a regular basis!
I agree entirely that it was a heat of the moment comment and of course he doesn’t think refs should be shot. But it was still grossly unprofessional to be shooting his mouth off like that. There is a massive qualitative difference between how you or I might blow off in private at work, and talking like this in front of the media. What Ferguson said shows a certain amount of lack of self-control. That’s the concerning thing. I don’t see that as showing spirit. I see it as lashing out.
And the big point is: give it enough time and the bad decisions even out. Unless you are paranoid and convinced that we’re the only club who refuses to pay bribes to bent refs.
So, in that light, I’d have a lot more respect for managers’ moans if they were equally forthright in complaining about refs’ mistakes when they went in their own favour. Unless they are prepared to say, “That penalty we got was a shocking decision and I’ll be putting in a complaint about that ref,” then complaining like Ferguson did today is just a self-indulgence.
And, as I say, the officials they are complaining about earn a tiny fraction of the managers’ own wages.
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The actual main point of what Fergie was saying in that interview IS that the officials need to be better trained and that the system needs to be changed. He hasn't just gone on a personal attack against Andy Haines, or Andy Woolmer or whoever was the ref at Oxford.
When you are angry and upset because something out of your control has cost you valuable progress in your job, all because of incompetence by someone else not doing their job properly, you are going to get heated and say things you maybe don't quite mean. Especially when someone sticks a microphone in front of you and asks you your thoughts on it. He wasn't "self indulgent" at all, people always criticise managers for talking about things they shouldn't be (I see this a lot when top flight managers have their little spats or a headline runs where one manager passes comment on another player that has nothing to do with them) saying "why don't they mind their own business" or "they should be focusing on the team and not officials" etc. etc. but these same people forget that they haven't just rang up the BBC and said something, the BBC have stuck a mic in front of them and asked them point blank about the issue at hand.
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BST, lets say we nosedive like we did two years ago and our destiny goes down to the final day of the season again.
We're playing Wigan and we get the same referee who makes incorrect decisions which play a part in us not winning the game (and ultimately that means we get relegated).
How are we going to feel then, knowing the same referee was equally as incompetent and not up to the job four months earlier?
Why should we have to put up with it?
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There’s more then enough money in the game for the EFL to employ 40 full time professional refs. It’s a ludicrous situation.
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Ferguson also not happy with May. Says not good enough. Beestin he likes but cannot get through a game a moment. Marquis "lacking in confidence".
I was surprised that May himself wasn’t substituted.
I thought he would be sent off before they could Sub a Sub !
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I think that DF's comments was influenced by the supporters, how many times did we shout 'SHOOT' through the game?
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I personally don’t have a problem with fergie venting his spleen. The ref was a complete joke!! Well said Darren 😀👍
... and having listened to it I think he was rather more measured and did not rant and rave as I had expected to hear giving the views expressed already on here
He must have been tempted to go off on one and perhaps should not have said "lets shoot them" but in this context it is a figure of speech and will probably be seen as such by the Club. Sure they may have a word but I have sympathy with his view
There was a clear pull on Andy Butler when they equalised (I also though he was pulled down by 2 people in the Plymouth Penalty area which could have put us 2 goals up if scored) and everyone bar the Ref and Lino thought Copps was hacked down (which could if scored have given us all 3 Points)
Small margins indeed which in a multi million industry cost people money in winning bets / win bonuses / etc and people their jobs Managers are vulnerable / as are playing staff in cases of relegation etc so if our current Manager is incensed and goes for a word and the supposed Officials are grinning at him I for one dont begrudge him getting "mad". He could maybe have chosen his words more carefully and maybe will in future
There will be similar decisions that will cost us as they have been cropping up regularly as the standard of Reffing is so poor and so inconsistent from Ref to Ref. Shoot em all but I dont know what we would do then !
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There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.
Absolutely. I have no problem with referees being paid better, in fact I'm totally in favour. There is plenty of money in the game to fund it. How about a levy on transfer fees for starters?
Having said that, referees who consistently make poor decisions or are unfit shouldn't be retained. That used to be the case, but nowadays with a few exceptions referees are allowed to continue until they want to quit. Not only are poor officials retained but they block the progress of younger ones.
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Referees like Haines should have been removed from the list a while ago.
And replaced by...?
That’s the problem by who?
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There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.
Absolutely. I have no problem with referees being paid better, in fact I'm totally in favour. There is plenty of money in the game to fund it. How about a levy on transfer fees for starters?
Having said that, referees who consistently make poor decisions or are unfit shouldn't be retained. That used to be the case, but nowadays with a few exceptions referees are allowed to continue until they want to quit. Not only are poor officials retained but they block the progress of younger ones.
TRB, there's already a levy on transfer fees, it's paid upfront when the buying club register their new player with the EFL. So DRFC would have paid a chunk of money to the EFL for Ben Whiteman this last week.
The EFL already have plans to make all their referees full time employees, they've already done so in the Championship and the plan is to filter that down through all the leagues.
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Referees like Haines should have been removed from the list a while ago.
And replaced by...?
That’s the problem by who?
See my reply on page 5. I can name a number of referees whom I know will perform poorly most of the time we get them. The referees we have had in the last two weeks fit into that category.
I'm only asking for referees to be judged in the same way players are. If a player gives too many poor performances, the club will eventually let him go.
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There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.
Absolutely. I have no problem with referees being paid better, in fact I'm totally in favour. There is plenty of money in the game to fund it. How about a levy on transfer fees for starters?
Having said that, referees who consistently make poor decisions or are unfit shouldn't be retained. That used to be the case, but nowadays with a few exceptions referees are allowed to continue until they want to quit. Not only are poor officials retained but they block the progress of younger ones.
TRB, there's already a levy on transfer fees, it's paid upfront when the buying club register their new player with the EFL. So DRFC would have paid a chunk of money to the EFL for Ben Whiteman this last week.
The EFL already have plans to make all their referees full time employees, they've already done so in the Championship and the plan is to filter that down through all the leagues.
That's good news, SM.
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BST, lets say we nosedive like we did two years ago and our destiny goes down to the final day of the season again.
We're playing Wigan and we get the same referee who makes incorrect decisions which play a part in us not winning the game (and ultimately that means we get relegated).
How are we going to feel then, knowing the same referee was equally as incompetent and not up to the job four months earlier?
Why should we have to put up with it?
A bit like what happened at Leicester then.
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Bit of back pedalling although he still gets his point across about refereeing standards.
https://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/news/2018/january/ferguson-clarifies-remarks-on-officials/
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Good response - but in reality he has said the same thing - whilst almost apologising for the "shooting" remark
I am glad he did not as there is far too much riding on the decisions of some incompetent Refs
Its a good job nobody asks me (even now) what I thought of the Refs decisions yesterday because (even now) I would not be so polite
Pull on Andy Butler in their Pen Area by 2 defenders - Pen
Pull on Andy Butler for their equaliser - Foul
Pull / chop / hack on Copps - Pen all day every day
Yes we may not have scored either Pen but that is not the point - they both should have been given
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Now they're getting more money from tv deals they should invest this in professional referees like the championship has done
how much should they be paid per season to go full time in leagues 1 and 2 they only do 2 matches a week plus paper work after the game even 2.5k per month plus travel seems a lot , what do people think what a full time ref should be paid
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I think you would need to break down what you would expect of a full-time referee in terms of fitness work, feedback, coaching and assessing. This may also include these elite referees working with the lower grades.
It maybe, that some current referees may not want to give up their other jobs that might be more lucrative but I'm sure there must be a benchmark with the existing full time refs.
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JR has had his say on Facebook...
Well said Darren Ferguson referee Haines should be suspended for 2 weeks and told to get fit.The shoot them remark was wrong but purely tongue in cheek.The media blew it up as usual but standards must improve as Rovers have suffered 2 weeks running now.
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There's enough money in the game to properly fund professional referees. When they are properly supported, coached and assessed individually and collectively we will get more consistency. There should also be a route for ex players who might want to continue in the game and make a good living.
Absolutely. I have no problem with referees being paid better, in fact I'm totally in favour. There is plenty of money in the game to fund it. How about a levy on transfer fees for starters?
Having said that, referees who consistently make poor decisions or are unfit shouldn't be retained. That used to be the case, but nowadays with a few exceptions referees are allowed to continue until they want to quit. Not only are poor officials retained but they block the progress of younger ones.
TRB, there's already a levy on transfer fees, it's paid upfront when the buying club register their new player with the EFL. So DRFC would have paid a chunk of money to the EFL for Ben Whiteman this last week.
The EFL already have plans to make all their referees full time employees, they've already done so in the Championship and the plan is to filter that down through all the leagues.
In which case that makes DF's remarks all the more unacceptable. He should know that there are steps afoot to address what is generally perceived to be a weakness in the set up. Something along the lines of 'the sooner we move to full time referees the better' would have been far less provocative and less likely to have him facing a disrepute charge. My fear is that the 'brotherhood' of L1 and L2 refs will now take against Rovers because of their manager.
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....And if the 'brotherhood' of L1 and L2 refs now take against Rovers because of their manager they can be called cheats as well.
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....And if the 'brotherhood' of L1 and L2 refs now take against Rovers because of their manager they can be called cheats as well.
Could they be any worse? I can count on one hand the number of decent referees I've seen in League One this season.
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Well, here’s my take.
1) Referees are fallible but fundamentally honest, in which case we’ve nothing to worry about. Yes we’ve had some bad decisions over the past couple of games but these even out over time (how many penalties have we won through Tommy Rowe diving?)
2) Referees bear grudges and will punish us for Ferguson’s remarks. In which case, Ferguson was stupid to say them.
Not sure there’s a third option.
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Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!
Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! :suicide:
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....And if the 'brotherhood' of L1 and L2 refs now take against Rovers because of their manager they can be called cheats as well.
Could they be any worse? I can count on one hand the number of decent referees I've seen in League One this season.
Probably not TRB. The claims that refs might be useless but they're not cheats is hardly any consolation when, like yesterday, you're 'cheated' out of 2 points by useless officials.
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Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!
Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! :suicide:
Lincs
Keep in mind the context of what I said last night. A L1 ref will get paid maybe £8000 a season.
You can’t pay peanuts and expect to get diamonds. If clubs were that bothered, they’d up refs’ salaries to 6 figures and they’d have better candidates fighting for the roles. If clubs aren’t prepared to do that, don’t blame the refs for being (very) semi-pro in a pro game. That’s not their fault.
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Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!
Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! :suicide:
Lincs
Keep in mind the context of what I said last night. A L1 ref will get paid maybe £8000 a season.
You can’t pay peanuts and expect to get diamonds. If clubs were that bothered, they’d up refs’ salaries to 6 figures and they’d have better candidates fighting for the roles. If clubs aren’t prepared to do that, don’t blame the refs for being (very) semi-pro in a pro game. That’s not their fault.
The answer is make them full time.
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It seems not many disagree with Fergies omments
https://mobile.twitter.com/EFL/status/952518694210588672
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Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!
Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! :suicide:
Lincs
Keep in mind the context of what I said last night. A L1 ref will get paid maybe £8000 a season.
You can’t pay peanuts and expect to get diamonds. If clubs were that bothered, they’d up refs’ salaries to 6 figures and they’d have better candidates fighting for the roles. If clubs aren’t prepared to do that, don’t blame the refs for being (very) semi-pro in a pro game. That’s not their fault.
The answer is make them full time.
Grand. So someone has to pay for it. I assume clubs will be falling over themselves to put their hands in their pockets.
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Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!
Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! :suicide:
Lincs
Keep in mind the context of what I said last night. A L1 ref will get paid maybe £8000 a season.
You can’t pay peanuts and expect to get diamonds. If clubs were that bothered, they’d up refs’ salaries to 6 figures and they’d have better candidates fighting for the roles. If clubs aren’t prepared to do that, don’t blame the refs for being (very) semi-pro in a pro game. That’s not their fault.
The answer is make them full time.
Grand. So someone has to pay for it. I assume clubs will be falling over themselves to put their hands in their pockets.
Surely they would be fine with it if it guarantees a better standard of refereeing.
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Looking around the Leagues there seems to have been some controversies at all levels this weekend:
Watford v Southampton. Watford player scores equaliser with his hand.
Newcastle v Swansea. Newcastle defender saves a goal with his hand.
Middlesbrough v Fulham. Boro denied a penalty as blatant as ours and then concede one from a dive (at least the diver should cop a ban over that).
Lincoln v Notts County. Cowley sent to the stands for protesting about a goal.
And just now... Bournemouth v Arsenal. Referee misses an Arsenal handball despite being perfectly placed.
Should give the FA food for thought, but I won't hold my breath. All referees involved (except at Lincoln) are full timers.
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Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!
Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! :suicide:
Lincs
Keep in mind the context of what I said last night. A L1 ref will get paid maybe £8000 a season.
You can’t pay peanuts and expect to get diamonds. If clubs were that bothered, they’d up refs’ salaries to 6 figures and they’d have better candidates fighting for the roles. If clubs aren’t prepared to do that, don’t blame the refs for being (very) semi-pro in a pro game. That’s not their fault.
The answer is make them full time.
Grand. So someone has to pay for it. I assume clubs will be falling over themselves to put their hands in their pockets.
Surely they would be fine with it if it guarantees a better standard of refereeing.
You’d think so wouldn’t you? And yet they haven’t addressed it over all these years.
Maybe the clubs and the League realise that honest errors tend to even out over time, so mistakes by the officials are something that you should just take on the chin?
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Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!
Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! :suicide:
Lincs
Keep in mind the context of what I said last night. A L1 ref will get paid maybe £8000 a season.
You can’t pay peanuts and expect to get diamonds. If clubs were that bothered, they’d up refs’ salaries to 6 figures and they’d have better candidates fighting for the roles. If clubs aren’t prepared to do that, don’t blame the refs for being (very) semi-pro in a pro game. That’s not their fault.
The answer is make them full time.
Grand. So someone has to pay for it. I assume clubs will be falling over themselves to put their hands in their pockets.
Surely they would be fine with it if it guarantees a better standard of refereeing.
You’d think so wouldn’t you? And yet they haven’t addressed it over all these years.
Maybe the clubs and the League realise that honest errors tend to even out over time, so mistakes by the officials are something that you should just take on the chin?
But if you can improve them so there's less errors?
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Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!
Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! :suicide:
Lincs
Keep in mind the context of what I said last night. A L1 ref will get paid maybe £8000 a season.
You can’t pay peanuts and expect to get diamonds. If clubs were that bothered, they’d up refs’ salaries to 6 figures and they’d have better candidates fighting for the roles. If clubs aren’t prepared to do that, don’t blame the refs for being (very) semi-pro in a pro game. That’s not their fault.
The answer is make them full time.
Grand. So someone has to pay for it. I assume clubs will be falling over themselves to put their hands in their pockets.
Surely they would be fine with it if it guarantees a better standard of refereeing.
You’d think so wouldn’t you? And yet they haven’t addressed it over all these years.
Maybe the clubs and the League realise that honest errors tend to even out over time, so mistakes by the officials are something that you should just take on the chin?
But if you can improve them so there's less errors?
Aye. Then, like I said, you wonder why the League don’t pay the refs more.
Last year, Premier League refs were paid £45k per year. A bit of perspective: Paul Pogba earns that amount every 22 hours.
If you are complicit in that system, you can’t really vitriolically criticise referees and retain any self-respect.
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Well, here’s my take.
1) Referees are fallible but fundamentally honest, in which case we’ve nothing to worry about. Yes we’ve had some bad decisions over the past couple of games but these even out over time (how many penalties have we won through Tommy Rowe diving?)
2) Referees bear grudges and will punish us for Ferguson’s remarks. In which case, Ferguson was stupid to say them.
Not sure there’s a third option.
Bit off a contradiction isn't it,
If they're holding a grudge they aren't being honest
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Third option is they buck their ideas up, improve their decision making and stop making ridiculous, incompetent decisions!
Oh, yes, sorry BST, you're right, there is no third option!! :suicide:
Lincs
Keep in mind the context of what I said last night. A L1 ref will get paid maybe £8000 a season.
You can’t pay peanuts and expect to get diamonds. If clubs were that bothered, they’d up refs’ salaries to 6 figures and they’d have better candidates fighting for the roles. If clubs aren’t prepared to do that, don’t blame the refs for being (very) semi-pro in a pro game. That’s not their fault.
The answer is make them full time.
Grand. So someone has to pay for it. I assume clubs will be falling over themselves to put their hands in their pockets.
Surely they would be fine with it if it guarantees a better standard of refereeing.
You’d think so wouldn’t you? And yet they haven’t addressed it over all these years.
Maybe the clubs and the League realise that honest errors tend to even out over time, so mistakes by the officials are something that you should just take on the chin?
But if you can improve them so there's less errors?
Aye. Then, like I said, you wonder why the League don’t pay the refs more.
Last year, Premier League refs were paid £45k per year. A bit of perspective: Paul Pogba earns that amount every 22 hours.
If you are complicit in that system, you can’t really vitriolically criticise referees and retain any self-respect.
People don't pay £60 a ticket to go watch the referee
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Whatever the critics thinks I am very glad to have a Manager who speaks his mind on a subject of vital importance to the sport we all support the quality and professionalism of the people who help determine the results of the game .
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The FA has the cash so spend it...
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Quotes from the Plymouth manager Derrick Adams in the F.L. paper, the referee had a good game and was excellent,the officials were very good,and got the penalty decision right.
In the same article their ratings were,Houghton 5, Kongolo 5, May 6, I don't think they were at the same game as me.
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Quotes from the Plymouth forum also slating fergie for being son of fergie (brings ploppy to mind from blackadder!), and for "winging & whining", rovers fans for thinking we are bigger/better than we are & for the way we treated murderer McCormick last year, and rovers players for being thugs. Any small respect I had for their travelling brigade completely gone thanks to their keyboard warrior w*nkers!! I hope they go down! :evil:
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Quotes from the Plymouth forum also slating fergie for being son of fergie (brings ploppy to mind from blackadder!), and for "winging & whining, rovers fans for thinking we are bigger/better than we are & for the way we treated murderer McCormick last year, and rovers players for being thugs. Any small respect I had for their travelling brigade completely gone thanks to their keyboard warrior w*nkers!! I hope they go down! :evil:
I wonder how our very own keyboard warriors would react if the roles were reversed?
Probably best not to tar everyone with the same brush.
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Quotes from the Plymouth forum also slating fergie for being son of fergie (brings ploppy to mind from blackadder!), and for "winging & whining, rovers fans for thinking we are bigger/better than we are & for the way we treated murderer McCormick last year, and rovers players for being thugs. Any small respect I had for their travelling brigade completely gone thanks to their keyboard warrior w*nkers!! I hope they go down! :evil:
We think we're bigger than we are? Plymouth fans have greater delusions of grandeur than any others in League One and League Two. Their history is very similar to ours and their natural level is League One.
While I was gutted that we screwed up the title last season the consolation was that Plymouth didn't win it either. At least Portsmouth have been in the top flight in living memory and at one time were a real power in the land.
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Quotes from the Plymouth manager Derrick Adams in the F.L. paper, the referee had a good game and was excellent,the officials were very good,and got the penalty decision right.
In the same article their ratings were,Houghton 5, Kongolo 5, May 6, I don't think they were at the same game as me.
Is Adams, Jones ( Luton manager ) in disguise. Both deluded that’s for sure.
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Fergie and Adams are good mates aren’t they?
Well probably not now.
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Well, here’s my take.
1) Referees are fallible but fundamentally honest, in which case we’ve nothing to worry about. Yes we’ve had some bad decisions over the past couple of games but these even out over time (how many penalties have we won through Tommy Rowe diving?)
2) Referees bear grudges and will punish us for Ferguson’s remarks. In which case, Ferguson was stupid to say them.
Not sure there’s a third option.
So how many pens have we won through Rowe diving?
Genuine question BST.
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The FA has the cash so spend it...
They won't spend money in the football league. Two different organisations
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Well, here’s my take.
1) Referees are fallible but fundamentally honest, in which case we’ve nothing to worry about. Yes we’ve had some bad decisions over the past couple of games but these even out over time (how many penalties have we won through Tommy Rowe diving?)
2) Referees bear grudges and will punish us for Ferguson’s remarks. In which case, Ferguson was stupid to say them.
Not sure there’s a third option.
So how many pens have we won through Rowe diving?
Genuine question BST.
There’s one at 1:32 here for a start.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dZlizRWyGzI
I was about 10 yards from it. It was a dive.
If you’re prepared to accept mistakes like this from the ref when they go our way (and regularly say that you want our players to be even better than this at deceiving the ref, as some do in here), it’s a bit rich complaining when refs get calls wrong against us.
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Well, here’s my take.
1) Referees are fallible but fundamentally honest, in which case we’ve nothing to worry about. Yes we’ve had some bad decisions over the past couple of games but these even out over time (how many penalties have we won through Tommy Rowe diving?)
2) Referees bear grudges and will punish us for Ferguson’s remarks. In which case, Ferguson was stupid to say them.
Not sure there’s a third option.
So how many pens have we won through Rowe diving?
Genuine question BST.
There’s one at 1:32 here for a start.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dZlizRWyGzI
I was about 10 yards from it. It was a dive.
If you’re prepared to accept mistakes like this from the ref when they go our way (and regularly say that you want our players to be even better than this at deceiving the ref, as some do in here), it’s a bit rich complaining when refs get calls wrong against us.
There was a definite contact on Rowe there by the player who knelt down as he goes past him.
Not a conclusive dive by any stretch of the imagination.
Still that is one incident, not the numerous that you seem to have indicated in your earlier post.
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I think over the course of a game every referee is going to make a decision which isn't correct. That's human nature and you just have to hope it's not a big decision.
The problem yesterday is that the referee made a series of wrong decisions at key stages, and it pretty much influenced the eventual outcome of the game.
If he'd have got things correct, we'd have won - either 1-0 or 2-0 depending on the outcome of the penalty itself - and even though Plymouth were a very good team without the decisions, they'd have been cursing their strikers for being toothless up top.
But instead because of the referee's cock ups, Plymouth would have won 2-1 had it not been for that late save with the feet by Lawlor.
Referees do have a tough job and all that cliched malarkey, but some referees make the job tough for themselves.
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Here's another question:
How many penalties have referees not given on Tommy Rowe because they thought he was diving, when he wasn't?
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Here's another question:
How many penalties have referees not given on Tommy Rowe because they thought he was diving, when he wasn't?
A very valid point Alan.
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RA
You reckon Ferguson is right to say that he would shoot refs and that he should only get a slap on the wrist then we have different standards.
If I were the club owner, I’d tell him to call a press conference tomorrow and apologise unreservedly, or I would sack him.
There is some rubbish posted on here and this is up there with the best examples.
Anyone who thinks for one moment that DF was advocating violence against refs needs a reality check. I’ve never heard such nonsense.
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Christ alive there was some shocking defending in that Blackpool game.
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Pancho
You might want to read the several posts where I’ve said that I don’t believe for 1 minute that Ferguson was advocating violence against the ref. That’s not the reason I think he was stupid and unprofessional.
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BST
You asked if Fergie was right to say that he would shoot refs.
He didn't say that.
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As far as I recall he was asked.
" What should that FA do?"
His response was as we know and he NEVER said HE Would do the deed.
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BST
You asked if Fergie was right to say that he would shoot refs.
He didn't say that.
Yes BB. Good boy. Have a sweetie.
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Can he say something like that after every match, the controversial assault on Copps is in every highlights,and has even been shown on Look North, Normally they are not shown.
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Looking around the Leagues there seems to have been some controversies at all levels this weekend:
Watford v Southampton. Watford player scores equaliser with his hand.
Newcastle v Swansea. Newcastle defender saves a goal with his hand.
Middlesbrough v Fulham. Boro denied a penalty as blatant as ours and then concede one from a dive (at least the diver should cop a ban over that).
Lincoln v Notts County. Cowley sent to the stands for protesting about a goal.
And just now... Bournemouth v Arsenal. Referee misses an Arsenal handball despite being perfectly placed.
Should give the FA food for thought, but I won't hold my breath. All referees involved (except at Lincoln) are full timers.
and how many different views and the use of slomo did you have to make those decisions, assuming you saw them all on tv that is? The ref has 1 chance in real time
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I didn't. In fact I haven't seen a couple of them. I was pointing out that our game wasn't the only one with controversies.
Credit to the officials that the Liverpool v City game passed off without any and everyone was able to concentrate on the football.
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It just showed the copps penalty shout on sky sports and even David Ellary said it was a definite Penalty and he would have given it 😠
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It just showed the copps penalty shout on sky sports and even David Ellary said it was a definite Penalty and he would have given it 😠
It was Dermot Gallagher, but yes, he said he'd have given it.
Thing is, apart from the Three Blind Mice on Saturday and a few embittered Plymouth fans, who wouldn't?
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A big question has to be asked of the lino, it was under his nose and he never gave it
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Yes ht was Dermot Gallagher i Always get them mixed up cant think why 😯
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A big question has to be asked of the lino, it was under his nose and he never gave it
What makes it worse Filo is that these guys are called ‘ Assistant referees’ so why are they not assisting the ref. This is week in week out. It’s a not funny any more. It needs sorting.
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A big question has to be asked of the lino, it was under his nose and he never gave it
What makes it worse Filo is that these guys are called ‘ Assistant referees’ so why are they not assisting the ref. This is week in week out. It’s a not funny any more. It needs sorting.
I'm convinced the refs tell the lino's to leave certain decisions to them
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They do, Filo. When I reffed, years ago, there was one senior referee locally who always told his linesmen (as we were still called then) that he would take all penalty shouts and we were to give nothing. I think that was his way of protecting his more junior colleagues, but every referee likes to do things a certain way
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A big question has to be asked of the lino, it was under his nose and he never gave it
What makes it worse Filo is that these guys are called ‘ Assistant referees’ so why are they not assisting the ref. This is week in week out. It’s a not funny any more. It needs sorting.
Maybe the officials should all be referees like in American football where they all have the same level of decision making.
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A big question has to be asked of the lino, it was under his nose and he never gave it
What makes it worse Filo is that these guys are called ‘ Assistant referees’ so why are they not assisting the ref. This is week in week out. It’s a not funny any more. It needs sorting.
Maybe the officials should all be referees like in American football where they all have the same level of decision making.
Thats exactly what I was thinking about yesterday.We have 4 officials,and none of them get a decision right?Why,because 3 three of them follow 1.They dare not disagree with him.
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Yes ht was Dermot Gallagher i Always get them mixed up cant think why 😯
It is a bit like getting your h and I mixed up on the keyboard. ;)
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Smart ass 😊
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Looking around the Leagues there seems to have been some controversies at all levels this weekend:
Watford v Southampton. Watford player scores equaliser with his hand.
Newcastle v Swansea. Newcastle defender saves a goal with his hand.
Middlesbrough v Fulham. Boro denied a penalty as blatant as ours and then concede one from a dive (at least the diver should cop a ban over that).
Lincoln v Notts County. Cowley sent to the stands for protesting about a goal.
And just now... Bournemouth v Arsenal. Referee misses an Arsenal handball despite being perfectly placed.
Should give the FA food for thought, but I won't hold my breath. All referees involved (except at Lincoln) are full timers.
and how many different views and the use of slomo did you have to make those decisions, assuming you saw them all on tv that is? The ref has 1 chance in real time
Seriously Raven - you only needed one view from anywhere in the ground at real time to see that was the most nailed on penalty ever
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Looking around the Leagues there seems to have been some controversies at all levels this weekend:
Watford v Southampton. Watford player scores equaliser with his hand.
Newcastle v Swansea. Newcastle defender saves a goal with his hand.
Middlesbrough v Fulham. Boro denied a penalty as blatant as ours and then concede one from a dive (at least the diver should cop a ban over that).
Lincoln v Notts County. Cowley sent to the stands for protesting about a goal.
And just now... Bournemouth v Arsenal. Referee misses an Arsenal handball despite being perfectly placed.
Should give the FA food for thought, but I won't hold my breath. All referees involved (except at Lincoln) are full timers.
and how many different views and the use of slomo did you have to make those decisions, assuming you saw them all on tv that is? The ref has 1 chance in real time
Seriously Raven - you only needed one view from anywhere in the ground at real time to see that was the most nailed on penalty ever
Why do we keep on insisting the decision was a penalty. A penalty is striking the ball from a given spot 12 yards from goal.
The referee should of blown for an obvious professional foul. He would of done if it was on the halfway line!!
There simply not enough penalty kicks awarded in football matches. There probably should be three or four every match due to the amount of professional fouls committed in the penalty box.
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a) because of Rule 14 of the FA
A penalty kick is awarded if a player commits a direct free kick offence inside their penalty area or off the field as part of play as outlined in Laws 12 and 13. A goal may be scored directly from a penalty kick. The ball must be stationary on the penalty mark.
So it should HAVE been a Penalty Kick which people have over the years shortened to Penalty. In fact if someone handles it on the Line (and its a defender not the Keeper) do you or anyone jump up and shout "Penalty Kick". I suspect you shout Penalty or even PEN at the top of your voice
c) You are right - there should be 10 a game. Still say Butler was hauled to the ground backwards by 2 defenders when up for a Corner (Kick) in second half. Ref ought to be made to give every pull back and shirt pull they see even if it resulted in 17 Penalty Kicks per game
The Players might then get the message. They made a start in Scotland a couple of Seasons back but it fizzled out after about 2 rounds of games
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The incident when Butler went to ground started outside the box, he waited till he was inside the box to go down.
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The incident when Butler went to ground started outside the box, he waited till he was inside the box to go down.
Cheers I only get the one view of course (from Half way) and have not seen it again anywhere
(Free Kick then maybe lol)
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Credit to the officials that the Liverpool v City game passed off without any and everyone was able to concentrate on the football.
I still reckon the goal that put Liverpool 2-1 up (and opened the floodgates) was a complete barge on John Stones similar to the one on Alfie Beestin in our game. Right between the shoulder blades and gaining the oppo Player an unfair advantage
On MOTD they said Stones should be "stronger" there etc etc so maybe they and others saw it differently to me as doubtless others on here will do.
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I agree with you, definite foul on Stones for me.
The inconsistencies in refereeing has never been greater than it is now.
The game is so much faster than it was 30/40 years ago.
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... and as I always say (and will continue to bore people on here no doubt) we need a Ref in each half
DF was right in one way saying Refs are "unfit" but maybe he should have gone on to say "in relative terms to the athletes they are chasing about these days"
Give them just a half each to rules over and things would improve somewhat but would still be open to errors like the foul on John Stones or the Penalty shout when Copps was fouled with the Refs ideally placed and one with a Lino exceptionally well placed as well
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Looking around the Leagues there seems to have been some controversies at all levels this weekend:
Watford v Southampton. Watford player scores equaliser with his hand.
Newcastle v Swansea. Newcastle defender saves a goal with his hand.
Middlesbrough v Fulham. Boro denied a penalty as blatant as ours and then concede one from a dive (at least the diver should cop a ban over that).
Lincoln v Notts County. Cowley sent to the stands for protesting about a goal.
And just now... Bournemouth v Arsenal. Referee misses an Arsenal handball despite being perfectly placed.
Should give the FA food for thought, but I won't hold my breath. All referees involved (except at Lincoln) are full timers.
and how many different views and the use of slomo did you have to make those decisions, assuming you saw them all on tv that is? The ref has 1 chance in real time
Seriously Raven - you only needed one view from anywhere in the ground at real time to see that was the most nailed on penalty ever
assume you mean the foul on Copps? Don't think that one wss mentioned in the post I replied to.
As for the Copps foul they mentioned it back to NASA from the space station it was that obvious
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Is it me, or do the refs keep getting too far forward of the attacking team.
This is like the defending side having an extra defender, and cuts down the options for the attacking side.
IMO this spoils the game somewhat.
I'm shouting at the TV for the ref to get out of the way, the wife thinks I've gone mad :sick:
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... and as I always say (and will continue to bore people on here no doubt) we need a Ref in each half
DF was right in one way saying Refs are "unfit" but maybe he should have gone on to say "in relative terms to the athletes they are chasing about these days"
Give them just a half each to rules over and things would improve somewhat but would still be open to errors like the foul on John Stones or the Penalty shout when Copps was fouled with the Refs ideally placed and one with a Lino exceptionally well placed as well
But Donnywolf the Lino ( assistant ref ) was perfectly placed to see both penalties on Copps (Rochdale & Plymouth ) but still did not signal for a foul or speak to the ref.
That’s simply not doing your job. Incompetence. Anybody in a job making those kind of mistakes would be likely to get a written warning. Are the officials accountable enough. Most are certainly not fit enough. DF is not wrong.
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I think I'm right in saying that some refs delegate fewer responsibilities to lino's than others. Maybe Saturday's lino was told not to get involved in penalty incidents.
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I think I'm right in saying that some refs delegate fewer responsibilities to lino's than others. Maybe Saturday's lino was told not to get involved in penalty incidents.
Then his job description should not be assistant referee, perhaps Touchline Moniter would be more fitting
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I think I'm right in saying that some refs delegate fewer responsibilities to lino's than others. Maybe Saturday's lino was told not to get involved in penalty incidents.
Then his job description should not be assistant referee, perhaps Touchline Moniter would be more fitting
Or linesman! I think some refs still treat them merely as linesmen. Perhaps the name change to Assistant referee was put in place to accommodate both sexes, instead of saying linesperson!
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It absolutely was done due to the gender reason.
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Looking around the Leagues there seems to have been some controversies at all levels this weekend:
Watford v Southampton. Watford player scores equaliser with his hand.
Newcastle v Swansea. Newcastle defender saves a goal with his hand.
Middlesbrough v Fulham. Boro denied a penalty as blatant as ours and then concede one from a dive (at least the diver should cop a ban over that).
Lincoln v Notts County. Cowley sent to the stands for protesting about a goal.
And just now... Bournemouth v Arsenal. Referee misses an Arsenal handball despite being perfectly placed.
Should give the FA food for thought, but I won't hold my breath. All referees involved (except at Lincoln) are full timers.
and how many different views and the use of slomo did you have to make those decisions, assuming you saw them all on tv that is? The ref has 1 chance in real time
Seriously Raven - you only needed one view from anywhere in the ground at real time to see that was the most nailed on penalty ever
assume you mean the foul on Copps? Don't think that one wss mentioned in the post I replied to.
As for the Copps foul they mentioned it back to NASA from the space station it was that obvious
Sorry Raven that’ll teach me to read all of a post
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I think I'm right in saying that some refs delegate fewer responsibilities to lino's than others. Maybe Saturday's lino was told not to get involved in penalty incidents.
Any referee at that level who tells his assistants only to get involved in throw ins and offsides should be demoted.
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It absolutely was done due to the gender reason.
Was it?
I thought the term "assistant referee" was brought in to remind everyone that linesmen (and women) are actually equally qualified referees...
Usually "linesmen" in higher leagues are referees at a lower level.
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It absolutely was done due to the gender reason.
Was it?
I thought the term "assistant referee" was brought in to remind everyone that linesmen (and women) are actually equally qualified referees...
Usually "linesmen" in higher leagues are referees at a lower level.
It was a bit of both. The term "assistant referee" was first used in the Laws in 1996. It was to reflect the fact that they were there to assist referees, not just make line decisions. Also there was an increasing number of female officials, so the role was made non gender specific.
Assistants used to referee on either the Panel (National League) or Contributory leagues (eg Northern Premier). However, officials are now expected to specialise after a few years. So very few of the assistants we see now will do much refereeing in the middle.
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... and as I always say (and will continue to bore people on here no doubt) we need a Ref in each half
DF was right in one way saying Refs are "unfit" but maybe he should have gone on to say "in relative terms to the athletes they are chasing about these days"
Give them just a half each to rules over and things would improve somewhat but would still be open to errors like the foul on John Stones or the Penalty shout when Copps was fouled with the Refs ideally placed and one with a Lino exceptionally well placed as well
But Donnywolf the Lino ( assistant ref ) was perfectly placed to see both penalties on Copps (Rochdale & Plymouth ) but still did not signal for a foul or speak to the ref.
That’s simply not doing your job. Incompetence. Anybody in a job making those kind of mistakes would be likely to get a written warning. Are the officials accountable enough. Most are certainly not fit enough. DF is not wrong.
how do you know the lino didn't speak to the ref?
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I know the Lino was perfectly placed in the Copps Penalty shout (and that was the one I was highlighting - the Lino in his case had a brilliant view. I did not express myself that well. In the Stones incident the Lino was not on that side)
We have discussed earlier that some Refs tell them NOT to interfere - and stick to just Offsides Throws and Goal Kicks etc That is probably why the one Saturday did not get involved. They are miked up so perhaps the Ref may have said don't get involved and stubbornly did not call the Lino (I am speculating)
Or he might have said do not get involved unless I ask your opinion. Then (again pure speculation) he might have said I saw no Penalty unless you have any different input. Lino then says no I am with you
Its hard to guess what really happened and who said what to who BUT in my humble opinion I have no doubt the Ref was wrong as it WAS as DF said as plain a Penalty as you could wish to see
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and having watched the footage on u tube from a Plymouth supporter there is a definite foul on Butler prior to the Plymouth goal perfectly viewable from the east stand lino I hope Fergie shoves the footage down the FA's throat but even if he does he'll cop it