Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: acko on November 04, 2014, 08:19:08 am
-
what comes first aim for stability even if it beens poor results,gate receipts going down peoples interest wavering and our young supporters start seeing other clubs in the area as a better option,or invest in a team get them winning games realistic aim for promotion get the support buzzing the slowly set up realistic targets to give success and stability.because you can blame the manager as much as you like but he needs the tools to work with
-
Somewhere in the middle.
-
Is this the same subject regurgitated!
-
Look at the players we have got on our books just now, including loanees.
Coppinger, Wellens, Tyson, Butler, Main, Johnstone, Forrester, De Val, McCullough etc. All players in a squad that is very capable of competing in this division (as we have done, not enough granted, but quite a few times) which shows that the board has given the manager the tools he needs.
The rhetoric during close season was to provide a budget that is competitive. Without knowing the actual figures and comparing that to those of other clubs, we clearly can be competitive with what we've got, perhaps with one or two more additions.
The problems have been inconsistency on the pitch and this is down to the manager, his staff, and the players. Fleetwood and Orient aside, in the last batch of games have been OK haven't they? We have a chance of a decent run in the cups too, which will give the fans more entertainment hopefully, the players more game time to nurture form. Play decent stuff and win games, that will bring more fans in...
Yes my glass is half full but where we are at the moment allows for stability and for aiming for promotion (even if next season).
If we are still floundering near the relegation zone come January then perhaps that is the time to review the manager's position. I believe he has been given almost all the tools he needs, so the answer to your question is "both".
-
the problem with loan players theyre not ours,if johnson and butler keep perfoming like theyve started how long will it be before some other clubs decide to offer their clubs the money to buy,and you know with our budgett we cant compete thats why we lost the players we did and other players that dickov lined up went somewhere else
-
We had 5 of them players last season thou idm not including Johnstone,in Tyson he is a average league 1 player at best,he has done better than I thought he would thou, but I disagree he has been given the tools this year with the amount of good players we lost
-
Can somebody name these good players that we lost?
-
brown, turnbull, cotts, quinn
-
Husband
-
Duffy had potential and think would have done well in this division
-
What I actually meant was the players that PD had lined up that went elesewhere.
However;
Brown offered £10k per week
Cotts moved to be closer to his family
Husband sold because he wanted away and because the deal was beneficial to the club
Turnbull was out of contract
Quinn decided he was too good for us
How is all of that down to the budget?
-
I said about the players due to idm saying pd has being given the tools,while it has improved with getting butler in were still short by a couple of players and were a third thru the season , I'm not saying they should spend more of there money but to say he has been backed this season is just not true
-
We are trying to keep the wages down and wanting to bring the young lads through, and we are not so good on the field, crowds dwindling fast, advertising boards blank, but yipeeee we are saving money. on the other hand we could have a better side with more success, crowds up, advertising up, feelgood factor around the fans and whole town, more merchandise sold, but hay we are saving money, SUCCESS FOR ME
-
the word stability sounds good,but the bear facts are 6500gate to break even,sustains the current level of budget lower than that means loss,above that means profit.gate will only go up with sucess on the field,so is it best to invest now to help get sucess or stay as we are and make a loss.and as anyone thought why the knights havent joined the consept of club doncaster,dont they like what they see and thinks it is in their best interest to go it alone
-
Didn't a very big club in the North East first try this "Club *********" thing, that was an abject failure. And the "Teams" concerned were much bigger than any in "Club Doncaster" or likely to be in.
-
I love how MORE MONEY = SUCCESS, FACT in some peoples mind. I wish I could live in such a world of naivety.
-
but to say he has been backed this season is just not true
If he has not been backed, please explain how we were able to offer revised terms to Copps, Wellens and to bring in loans recently?
-
copps and wellens were offered contracts after quinn was taken off payroll+the sale of husband,as for the loan deals it didnt take a genius to see we were heading for another relegation better late than never
-
We couldn't have got Butler any earlier as he only just returned from Walsall. We would have got him permanently in Summer if not for the takeover delaying everything.
We replaced Steer immediately with Johnstone, and assuming Man Utd don't sell him on in January I expect him to stay for the season.
I reckon we could have signed perhaps 4 players of a lesser quality than Copps and Wellens for their wages, but would you rather have more but not as good players, or two top quality players?
We might view things differently and may never agree, but there is no way the club are only looking to support a relegation battle.
-
You can't educate pork.
-
Revised teams yes we don't no how much less,the loans we have lost steer and done a straight swop for Johnstone,butler I agree will be costing more,out of the players that left how many were replaced with the same quality
-
i respect your views idm and admire the way you fight your corner for what you beleave in,we probably wont agree on this topic but i hope you respect my views and ive no doubt we will cross swords again but no harm done
-
I love how MORE MONEY = SUCCESS, FACT in some peoples mind. I wish I could live in such a world of naivety.
Who's said that?
What is a fact though is Rovers are unbeaten since we Acquired Butler, and Johnstone. Can you hand on heart say we would have won at Bradford had we not had them both playing for us?
It was obvious (to me) that the team wasn't good enough prior to their arrival, but some on here thought it was.
I'm still not convinced it is even now, and if it isn't I hope the issue is sorted before we lose too many points, and fans again.
-
BB the arrangements to get SJ back were I assume in place once (or even before) we knew that JS was leaving.
As for Butler, how on earth could we have got him any sooner?
-
Something is wrong at the club if we do have a good budget this year,not 1 of our players should be on big money,wellens is a decent player but getting on,same goes for copps none of them would get in any championship team,Tyson years ago would command big wages but not anymore,keegan decent player but still not worth big wages,forrester will be decent wages,who else is there that the good budget has gone on unless were paying way over the odds
-
Bb if was obvious at the start of the season
-
acko I'm afraid I'm on a totally different page to you on this..but like you say we all have our opinions and its at least refreshing that people can accept that with descending into childish argueing..That said your wrong mate ;-) ha
-
BB the arrangements to get SJ back were I assume in place once (or even before) we knew that JS was leaving.
As for Butler, how on earth could we have got him any sooner?
The point I am making is some people thought the team was good enough prior to the two loanees arriving, some even thinking we were good enough for promotion!
I'm saying that we weren't, and I'm still not convinced we are now.
-
FWIW my opinion is that especially with Jones injured we needed defensive reinforcements and I think another LB is needed especially if Evina is out for a while. Without Main I agree we were short of that kind of striker, but now he's back it is like a new signing. Get Forrester into form and playing with composure, Bennett looks good, Copps is outstanding in this division and Bennett not doing much wrong, we have a good forward line up too, especially if Theo can find form.
For me, we are not far off... Having the players is one thing though, getting them to perform consistently is another. I'm content for the club to give PD more time on this, so lets see about performances and points in the coming weeks?
-
I agree idm were not far off now,but after the 1st few games it was clear we were short and if we had any injuries or suspensions we would be woefully short,the board stated we had 1 of the best budgets when even the most hardened believer must find that hard 2 believe,all it would have took is pushing the boat out just a little more and we would be in or around the play offs now but that is just my opinion
-
I think PD has made some shrewd signings in his time here, although he's made one or two bad ones, which is understandable with a restricted budget. You don't need me to tell you that even Sir Alex and co have paid top notch money out for top notch players who have ended up playing shite. Of course money doesn't always buy success, but with the right bloke doing the buying, the odds are that it should.
In that respect I believe PD has a good eye for good players, and if he's given the cash required he will get us back up again.
That's why I'm still backing him.
Over to TB/DW.
-
I think we only need a slight upturn in form, or a continuation of the last 2 games to be in the top half of the table after Christmas. I also think we are good enough now (assuming we keep/extend Wabara, Butler, Johnstone) to stay above 12th place.
If we want to advance further this season, then yes I agree a bit of extra will help...
-
why not buy Wabara, Butler, Johnstone) to stay above 12th place.
-
They might not want to come here permanently.
-
A little of both would be great, and personally I think we're on the right lines. Could do with the owners being a little more public from time to time, the players showing their class (which in the main is way better than average for this league) and the manager finding consistency within the performances he coaxes out of his players and the coaching staff doing their bit! It's on the way in my eyes! A few minor tweaks across the board here and there, and as a club I think we'll only get stronger!
-
:that:
-
Stability should never be sacrificed for a gamble with a slim chance of success.
I want a club that will be here, in whatever division, for future generations of Doncastrians to support and get the same pleasure that I do from watching Doncaster Rovers (OK, maybe a little mor pleasure would be nice!)
-
Stability should never be sacrificed for a gamble with a slim chance of success.
I want a club that will be here, in whatever division, for future generations of Doncastrians to support and get the same pleasure that I do from watching Doncaster Rovers (OK, maybe a little mor pleasure would be nice!)
I don't get it.
You want to support a football team but you never want to gamble?
-
Stability should never be sacrificed for a gamble with a slim chance of success.
I want a club that will be here, in whatever division, for future generations of Doncastrians to support and get the same pleasure that I do from watching Doncaster Rovers (OK, maybe a little mor pleasure would be nice!)
I don't get it.
You want to support a football team but you never want to gamble?
That's not what I said.
-
Stability should never be sacrificed for a gamble with a slim chance of success.
I want a club that will be here, in whatever division, for future generations of Doncastrians to support and get the same pleasure that I do from watching Doncaster Rovers (OK, maybe a little mor pleasure would be nice!)
I don't get it.
You want to support a football team but you never want to gamble?
That's not what I said.
So what does your opening sentence mean?
-
ho wood you get in owners
-
Stability should never be sacrificed for a gamble with a slim chance of success.
I want a club that will be here, in whatever division, for future generations of Doncastrians to support and get the same pleasure that I do from watching Doncaster Rovers (OK, maybe a little mor pleasure would be nice!)
I don't get it.
You want to support a football team but you never want to gamble?
That's not what I said.
So what does your opening sentence mean?
I think the key phrase to look for is "slim chance of success"...
-
Stability should never be sacrificed for a gamble with a slim chance of success.
I want a club that will be here, in whatever division, for future generations of Doncastrians to support and get the same pleasure that I do from watching Doncaster Rovers (OK, maybe a little mor pleasure would be nice!)
I don't get it.
You want to support a football team but you never want to gamble?
That's not what I said.
So what does your opening sentence mean?
I think the key phrase to look for is "slim chance of success"...
How do you gauge success?
-
Everyone has their own ideas, of what is acceptable risk for the rewards on offer. There is no correct answer.
-
Your right idm,I have said on another post I would like to see us gamble a little maybe a extra 500k but that's easy to do with other peoples money
-
Since when did stability and success become polar opposites?
-
I agree Mr Croft.
Surely any club which is not stable cannot be seen as a success?
Stability is the backstop against which success on the pitch, which is always relative, can be judged.
I don't see the point of rehashing the same argument under a new thread is, unless to wind people up. This has been done to death on here.
-
Yes chaps. What's the two common factors betweeen Man Utd this last 20 years and Liverpool in the 70's and early 80's? Yep. Got it in one. Massive stability and massive success.
BobG
-
Sorry for sounding thick bob I don't get your post lol who had stability?
-
You can't educate pork.
The question is though Stu :- which side of the argument has the pork that can't be educated, you leave us guessing ?
-
Lol. I meant those 2 clubs had huge long periods of stability where suddenly nothing happened to upset the running of the club. And both were hugely succesful.
It's not neccesarily cause and effect, but in the spirit of the thread, I couldn't resist. :)
bobG
-
You can't educate pork.
The question is though Stu :- which side of the argument has the pork that can't be educated, you leave us guessing ?
Yer can't educate it but you can eat it :whistle:
-
Ah thanks for the reply bob
-
Yes chaps. What's the two common factors betweeen Man Utd this last 20 years and Liverpool in the 70's and early 80's? Yep. Got it in one. Massive stability and massive success.
BobG
Do you really think Manchester United are a stable club?
Millions in debt and hardly sustainable are they?
-
Lol. I meant those 2 clubs had huge long periods of stability where suddenly nothing happened to upset the running of the club. And both were hugely succesful.
It's not neccesarily cause and effect, but in the spirit of the thread, I couldn't resist. :)
bobG
Both teams had BIG investment too. As have Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Possibly the only "Big" premiership club with Moderate to small investment is Everton, yes they have stability, but where is the success. I think its fair to say that INVESTMENT has as big a part in success of any club as stability. Whilst investment alone will not make a club successful, neither will stability.
-
Wellred until the Glazers took over and mortgage MUFC up uo the hilt to fund the purchase, how much debt were they in? And where's their success now?
How stable are QPR? If they get relegated there may be big trouble because thew blew FFP out of the water to get promoted - they either need to pay their multimillion fine or could face expulsion from the league? Neither sustainable nor particularly successful eh?
-
Yes chaps. What's the two common factors betweeen Man Utd this last 20 years and Liverpool in the 70's and early 80's? Yep. Got it in one. Massive stability and massive success.
BobG
Do you really think Manchester United are a stable club?
Millions in debt and hardly sustainable are they?
That's because someone bought them without using his own money...
-
man unt might be in debt but the assets should see that its never a problem the sponser ship alone is worth millions and what would selling the name old trafford stadium be worth
-
They say never gamble more than you can afford to lose.
With many of the clubs mentioned it's the banks who own the clubs and when they get to a stage when they can't service the debt, then that's when the doo doo hits the fan.
Tony Fernandez at QPR is showing signs of crumbling. His F1 team has gone on to administration. I suspect they could be in trouble very shortly. Very often it's not the owners personal wealth at stake, it's the club shouldering the burden of the loans.
Cellino saying today he can't get a mortgage to buy back Elland Road. Paper asking why he needs a bank when he's worth X£million. I guess he wants to stay a multi millionaire.
-
Don't they teach reading in schools nowadays?
And Wellred :) You do it on purpose don't you? Extract 3 or 4 words, out of context, from a rational and reasonable sentence and make out like it's b*llocks. Read what I wrote. It explains the answer to the idiotic point you made.
BobG
-
He identifies the right players,but has yet to prove he can get the best from the players he signs,Harry Forrester the most glaring example.
SCWK , I know that you aren't PD's biggest fan but what do you propose he can do about Forrester's temperament which is his biggest weakness ?
So far he appears to have used him effectively IMO both in the starting eleven or as an impact sub .
Seems to me that HF has to curb his own petulance and grow up . Don't you think that a retired professional footballer of the stature of PD hasn't taken the time out to have a word with this young player ?
He now has his disjointed team playing well not fantastically well but given all the circumstances he has had to put up with he's now on track. Watch this team begin to fly.......
-
who wood you have as owners
-
If John Ryan returned the town would awake from its nonchalance, and sit up.
-
If John Ryan returned the town would awake from its nonchalance, and sit up.
The whole town? Not sure about that. I'm sure we'd get a couple hundred more on the gate, which would be nice, but I honestly think that ship has sailed BB.
-
Loyalty might not stretch to the whole town if the ingrates on this forum are a fair representation, BJW, but I don't believe they are.
-
Loyalty might not stretch to the whole town if the ingrates on this forum are a fair representation, BJW, but I don't believe they are.
There are few ingrates . Many that respect what he did for our club and
Many that were insulted by the way he behaved petulantly and dragged our club into being a laughing stock.
All that hard work undone at Barnsley, the SC fiasco, the Crowdfunder fiasco , the McKay fiasco and the media gaffes.
Need I go on , still many like me think a lot of JR despite all that ; what more from me, you and the rest of the supporters does JR warrant BB ?
He reminds me of my own dad who was a superb musician but full of bluster in other areas of his life - a disappointment right to the end so please excuse me my opinion.
The JR thing surely has been done to death by now ?
-
my last word on this subject is that bramhall,watson and blunt along with baldwin see drfc as a small club belonging in the league one/two of the football league,ryan rightly or wrongly wanted more for the club he not only supported but loved,and not lets forget bramhall and watson both thro the dummies out of the pram and resigned from the board not too long ago.ryan was wrong to trust them as for blunt hes good at arranging a company for selling and an expert in administration bramhall said that when it was suggested administration was on the cards if ryan recalled is lone.i am afraid we have small memorys when we call ryan what he did for this club was without doubt immense in the history of drfc.
-
They still contributed financially though Acko.
Without that we would have sunk without trace.
Everybody should acknowledge what JR did for the club but we have to move on, with or without JR.
-
my last word on this subject is that bramhall,watson and blunt along with baldwin see drfc as a small club belonging in the league one/two of the football league,ryan rightly or wrongly wanted more for the club he not only supported but loved,and not lets forget bramhall and watson both thro the dummies out of the pram and resigned from the board not too long ago.ryan was wrong to trust them as for blunt hes good at arranging a company for selling and an expert in administration bramhall said that when it was suggested administration was on the cards if ryan recalled is lone.i am afraid we have small memorys when we call ryan what he did for this club was without doubt immense in the history of drfc.
The saddest thing I've heard if you believe that to be true. You have been brainwashed. Just observe for the next few years and see where we are.
-
only time will tell maybe youve been brainwashed
-
The only point to think on Acko, is which of the two competing groups of directors do you reckon might use bullshit?
Answer that honestly and you know who's been brain washed.
BobG
PS Crowd funding anyone?
-
"Bundesliga Experiment" anyone?
-
"Bundesliga Experiment" anyone?
You mean the 3 season on that is only 14 games old?
-
why not do a new player Experiment