Brexit Negotiations

[Glyn_Wigley]

By the way, this shiws much more clearly what I was ranting on about this afternoon. That the was no clarity whatsoever about the kind of Brexit that was voted for.

https://mobile.twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/974373411165270017

There isn't a clear position there at all. I can understand the argument for the SM but the CU was left vaguely open and rarely if ever mentioned.

Probably because people (including the politicians who are supposed to know better) conflate the two as if they were the same thing.

[hoolahoop]

By the way, this shiws much more clearly what I was ranting on about this afternoon. That the was no clarity whatsoever about the kind of Brexit that was voted for.

https://mobile.twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/974373411165270017

ñjThere isn't a clear position there at all. I can understand the argument for the SM but the CU was left vaguely open and rarely if ever mentioned.

Probably because people (including the politicians who are supposed to know better) conflate the two as if they were the same thing.

I know , all this time down the line and STILL some politicians prefer to blur the two . They STILL pretend that we can't trade outside the EU whilst being in it . Germany exported € 107 billion to the USA in 2016 and € 76 billion to China . Amazing what you can do inside the EU isn't it ?   

The figures for the UK are € 51 and € 20 billions respectively . We are not even  at the races . How come we have completely neglected both markets.

Anyway it's all academic now because the knob from LBC Iain Dale says it's all but sorted out now or words to that effect.

[selby]

 Brexit deal looming, the £ up against the euro and the Dollar, a nice little trade, lets hope the evening game goes as well.

[Not Now Kato]

Still a long way to go by the looks
 
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu/eu-agrees-brexit-transition-uk-renews-irish-border-vow-idUKKBN1GV16R

[Bentley Bullet]

Less uncertainty more positivity?

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/8721-gbp-to-eur-and-usd-brussels-press-conference

[BillyStubbsTears]

So we (UK) have no solution to the Irish border issue and we’ve kicked it into the long grass by agreeing to the EU backstop solution which May, Reed-Mogg and the DUP have said is absolutely unacceptable.

Massive problem deferred.

[selby]

Billy, whatever happens now, the market makers will take the opportunity to make money, whether what happens is good or bad for the rest of us.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course. But that’s an entirely secondary point. The issue is that we’re still no closer to sorting out a massive constitutional problem. It’s just been fudged for today. But it’s not gone away.

[hoolahoop]

So we (UK) have no solution to the Irish border issue and we’ve kicked it into the long grass by agreeing to the EU backstop solution which May, Reed-Mogg and the DUP have said is absolutely unacceptable.

Massive problem deferred.

Still the BBC and other commentators ''spin'' this garbage like it's a hard-won deal .

[Glyn_Wigley]

So we (UK) have no solution to the Irish border issue and we’ve kicked it into the long grass by agreeing to the EU backstop solution which May, Reed-Mogg and the DUP have said is absolutely unacceptable.

Massive problem deferred.

Still the BBC and other commentators ''spin'' this garbage like it's a hard-won deal .

The BBC aren't spinning it, they're just reporting the spin others have put on it.

[selby]

  Cac(Paris) down Dax( Frankfurt) down Ftse up slightly
Dow ( down 300+ points)  euro down against the pound this morning again, begs the question is something going off?

[hoolahoop]

So we (UK) have no solution to the Irish border issue and we’ve kicked it into the long grass by agreeing to the EU backstop solution which May, Reed-Mogg and the DUP have said is absolutely unacceptable.

Massive problem deferred.

Still the BBC and other commentators ''spin'' this garbage like it's a hard-won deal .

The BBC aren't spinning it, they're just reporting the spin others have put on it.

You mean their own political reporters Glyn - perhaps it's me I must be stupid .

As I see it - little seems resolved and as Billy said earlier a total fudge now if the BBC can't or won't see through what DD is putting out then someone should be asking why ?

[Glyn_Wigley]

So we (UK) have no solution to the Irish border issue and we’ve kicked it into the long grass by agreeing to the EU backstop solution which May, Reed-Mogg and the DUP have said is absolutely unacceptable.

Massive problem deferred.

Still the BBC and other commentators ''spin'' this garbage like it's a hard-won deal .

The BBC aren't spinning it, they're just reporting the spin others have put on it.

You mean their own political reporters Glyn - perhaps it's me I must be stupid .

As I see it - little seems resolved and as Billy said earlier a total fudge now if the BBC can't or won't see through what DD is putting out then someone should be asking why ?

Nobody on Daily Politics said anything other than it solved nothing. I don't know what BBC output you were watching.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The BBC has a generation of very poor quality senior editors.

Kuenssberg is very lightweight as Political Editor. More interested in politics as a clever chess game than really delving into detail. Kamal Ahmed as Economics Editor is utterly f**king useless. Ive got no professional reason to be particularly interested in economic debates but I am interested as an amateur observer. And it’s clear that he has either little comprehension of the key issues in economics today, or is utterly unable to communicate them to laypeople. He trots out the worst trite comments and still drones on about the importance of the deficit, years after the economic debate onbtat was settled.

[hoolahoop]

So we (UK) have no solution to the Irish border issue and we’ve kicked it into the long grass by agreeing to the EU backstop solution which May, Reed-Mogg and the DUP have said is absolutely unacceptable.

Massive problem deferred.

Still the BBC and other commentators ''spin'' this garbage like it's a hard-won deal .

The BBC aren't spinning it, they're just reporting the spin others have put on it.

You mean their own political reporters Glyn - perhaps it's me I must be stupid .

As I see it - little seems resolved and as Billy said earlier a total fudge now if the BBC can't or won't see through what DD is putting out then someone should be asking why ?

Nobody on Daily Politics said anything other than it solved nothing. I don't know what BBC output you were watching.

Glyn I'm sure you're not picking up on me deliberately but I watched the Daily Politics and every broadcast on that day in the hope that someone would point out to the British people that the can had been really kicked down the road a long long way ...... the answers to how current freedom of movement questions had been answered going forward, the Irish question where, how and what the border would look like now and in the future and also what those outstanding issues actually were on the board behind them and how they might affect us .
Amazing how it all dropped into place so quickly ....Ireland , Gibraltar , trade, tariffs etc etc. wasn't it ? The whole lot has been kicked down the road with concessions a plenty with as Billy said Neil, Kuennsberg, Coburn and a bunch of others welcoming the news of a Transition deal like Moses had walked down from the mountain with the tablets. Yes I've been watching the news and it has had very little of the usual BBC neutrality about it for nigh on 2 years.
The " deal " if you can call it that was always going to be Transitional and we were always going to have to swallow some pride , in fact a lot of pride. Notice a great deal wasn't made on it today in PMQs - with good reason . Some of the population think that we have ticked 2 out of the 3 boxes off to Brexit whereas we have barely reached 1 yet .

[hoolahoop]

The BBC has a generation of very poor quality senior editors.

Kuenssberg is very lightweight as Political Editor. More interested in politics as a clever chess game than really delving into detail. Kamal Ahmed as Economics Editor is utterly f**king useless. Ive got no professional reason to be particularly interested in economic debates but I am interested as an amateur observer. And it’s clear that he has either little comprehension of the key issues in economics today, or is utterly unable to communicate them to laypeople. He trots out the worst trite comments and still drones on about the importance of the deficit, years after the economic debate onbtat was settled.

Agreed entirely especially about Kamal Ahmed, the man does seem to trot out the same crap and doesnt seem to grasp the bigger picture at all. I'm not a Labour supporter but i would have started to give up on appearing on the BBC long before now - the odds are stacked heavily against them getting a fair hearing these days on a very disappointing BBC .

[wilts rover]

I think you are being a bit harsh there Hoola, all this deal and ever was are the terms that will apply between Britain and the EU from March 2019 to December 2020 - should a formal agreement on the terms of our leaving be agreed by then.

In reality this means October this year when it will be put to Parliament for a vote. This is deal that is important and will set down the terms for Ireland, future trade, Euroatem, Fishing Rights etc - and if this isn't agreed then the transition agreement is worthless. Kuenssberg was very quick to emphasis that and 'nothing is agreed until everything is agreed'.

Do people on here listen to Radio5's Brexitcast? It can be a bit posh kids larking about at times but they have some very insightful guests on, the guy from the Board of Trade is well worth listening to:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05299nl

[hoolahoop]

I don't think I'm being harsh at all , my only surprise is that both the Brexiters and the BBC seemed to push this idea that there should be room for negotiation on a number of issues . Why i dont know and why Rees- mogg and other members were trying to force issues on what was  purely a Transitional period rather than anything that was up for being altered i just dont understand .
Art 50 clearly states that this period should be granted by the other members if they felt fit and could agree that it was in their interests to grant it to the UK , therefore nothing was up for grabs this " Implementation " claptrap always was designed to infer something different entirely I.e. you are implementing different arrangements than previously existed before the invokation of Art 50.

It was a clever use of language designed to breathe more life into this group of ardent Brexiters , the BBC should have called it out from day 1 - they didn't hence the stupidity of Farage  and JRM on HMS Brexit today along with the extensive and most bizarre coverage that went along with it. Instead all we kept hearing about was the " selling out of fishermen " - if they felt sold out it was because this Govt. along with the BBC continued to peddle the line that something else could be implemented .
Frankly we haven't really resolved many issues that I am aware of since the negotiations started. I get the feeling that the EU are sick to the back teeth of it all now and want to move on

[hoolahoop]

I don't think I'm being harsh at all , my only surprise is that both the Brexiters and the BBC seemed to push this idea that there should be room for negotiation on a number of issues . Why i dont know and why Rees- mogg and other members were trying to force issues on what was  purely a Transitional period rather than anything that was up for being altered i just dont understand .
Art 50 clearly states that this period should be granted by the other members if they felt fit and could agree that it was in their interests to grant it to the UK , therefore nothing was up for grabs this " Implementation " claptrap always was designed to infer something different entirely I.e. you are implementing different arrangements than previously existed before the invokation of Art 50.

It was a clever use of language designed to breathe more life into this group of ardent Brexiters , the BBC should have called it out from day 1 - they didn't hence the stupidity of Farage  and JRM on HMS Brexit today along with the extensive and most bizarre coverage that went along with it. Instead all we kept hearing about was the " selling out of fishermen " - if they felt sold out it was because this Govt. along with the BBC continued to peddle the line that something else could be implemented .
Frankly we haven't really resolved many issues that I am aware of since the negotiations started. I get the feeling that the EU are sick to the back teeth of it all now and want to move on

[bobjimwilly]

The whole thing is so ludicrous now it would be funny if it wasn't something that is going to affect every single one of us in at least one negative way.

Farage and his fishermen friends were throwing dead fish into the Thames in protest (errrr wtf?) and yet when we leave the EU we'll be scaring off our biggest fish customers with the inevitable tariffs?? He claims the fishing industry will be "gutted due to the EU", yet as an MEP on the European Parliament Fisheries Committee he only attended one out of 42 meetings where he could actually have made a f*cking difference! He talks about the cost of EU bureaucracy - MEP's like him were part of the problem!

[hoolahoop]

The whole thing stinks like the fish no doubt.

[hoolahoop]

Classic......re. the passport

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/caller-maroon-passport-makes-me-less-opposed-nazis/&ved=2ahUKEwiDzPn424TaAhXGGuwKHautCaEQFjABegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw37mFr6MKkatRSnGHgrReuP

[BillyStubbsTears]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43581729

Grand eh?

All that bullshit about how leaving the EU would allow our economy to flourish because we could make our own trade agreements with other countries, and here’s Dr Fox telling us that he’s secured a great victory. After Brexit, we’ll keep using the agreements that the EU has already negotiated with 70 countries.

So, we’re going to leave the SM and CU which will make trading far more difficult and less profitable with 450million of the richest people in the world right on our doorstep. But the upside is that we’ll keep trading exactly as we have done before with everyone else.

Any Brexit supporters getting just a little bit nervous that you’ve been had by a bunch of clueless shysters?

[Glyn_Wigley]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43581729

Grand eh?

All that bullshit about how leaving the EU would allow our economy to flourish because we could make our own trade agreements with other countries, and here’s Dr Fox telling us that he’s secured a great victory. After Brexit, we’ll keep using the agreements that the EU has already negotiated with 70 countries.

So, we’re going to leave the SM and CU which will make trading far more difficult and less profitable with 450million of the richest people in the world right on our doorstep. But the upside is that we’ll keep trading exactly as we have done before with everyone else.

Any Brexit supporters getting just a little bit nervous that you’ve been had by a bunch of clueless shysters?

But I don't think they are  exactly the same as the Preference agreements are the EU with another non-EU country which means that any goods of EU origins can be exported to one of the trade deal countries outside the EU, be worked on and re-imported into a different EU country but because the goods are of 'EU origin' are not liable to Duty and VAT on that re-importation. For example, cloth of German origin can be exported to, say, Morocco, to be CMTed into garments and then shipped into France, all without Duty and VAT.

When the UK is no longer be a an EU country this kind of duty/VAT triangulation free movement will no longer be open to us.

[wilts rover]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43581729

Grand eh?

All that bullshit about how leaving the EU would allow our economy to flourish because we could make our own trade agreements with other countries, and here’s Dr Fox telling us that he’s secured a great victory. After Brexit, we’ll keep using the agreements that the EU has already negotiated with 70 countries.

So, we’re going to leave the SM and CU which will make trading far more difficult and less profitable with 450million of the richest people in the world right on our doorstep. But the upside is that we’ll keep trading exactly as we have done before with everyone else.

Any Brexit supporters getting just a little bit nervous that you’ve been had by a bunch of clueless shysters?

Yes I heard him on the radio this morning saying that and thought, is that right as I am sure I had read something recently about some of the countries not being willing to just roll the trade deals over but instead wanted to renegotiate with the UK to get better terms? Hmmm.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-trade-partners-object-to-brexit-transition-roll-over/

[Not Now Kato]

Worth a watch
 
https://vimeo.com/252854131
 

[hoolahoop]

Worth a watch
 
https://vimeo.com/252854131
 

Interesting why aren't the BBC  doing such things for the general public instead of " whitewashing " all these factors out.  Again the general public is being lied to and are unable to see the complexity of all this with all the willy waving instead.

How's Treeza's Tour de Grand Bretagne coming along btw .

[Not Now Kato]

 
Just released.  A pre-production sample of our new, French produced, BLUE Passport....
 

 

[Metalmicky]

It's going to end in a huge mad willy rub off - and I bet we all end up cuddling.....

Unless BST manages to impregnate us all beforehand.... 

[Not Now Kato]

Liar, liar, your tongues on fire
 
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/12/06/very-quietly-liam-fox-admits-the-brexit-lie
 
The longer it goes on the worse it gets.