Brexit Negotiations

[DonnyOsmond]

Xenophobia and racism are two different things.

[Bentley Bullet]

Which one was I very nearly then?

[DonnyOsmond]

Find the bit where I said all who voted for Brexit or even mentioned your name.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No genuine Leaver especially from poorer areas  of the country voted to be even poorer or potentially be less secure

Perhaps they were poor enough to think they had now't to lose so voted accordingly.

If that’s what they thought then they are in for a VERY nasty shock.

[BillyStubbsTears]

For the majority their xenophobia clouded everything else to do with Brexit. It's definitely not gonna help Doncaster.

Here we go again. Any deal that stops us being allowed to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of that big world out there would be terrible and a complete waste of time leaving for me.

Remoaners constantly tagging leave voters as racist gets a bit tedious and boring. Then again most of these far left wing lunatic protesters don’t even know what the EU is. Just jump on a bandwagon go marching around protesting whilst the rest of us go to work.

Padge

Which of those deals is going to compensate for the money we lose by deliberately making it harder to trade with 450million of the richest people in the world right on our doorstep?

[Bentley Bullet]

No genuine Leaver especially from poorer areas  of the country voted to be even poorer or potentially be less secure

Perhaps they were poor enough to think they had now't to lose so voted accordingly.

If that’s what they thought then they are in for a VERY nasty shock.

What do you think they thought, Billy?

[hoolahoop]

No genuine Leaver especially from poorer areas  of the country voted to be even poorer or potentially be less secure

Perhaps they were poor enough to think they had now't to lose so voted accordingly.

If that’s what they thought then they are in for a VERY nasty shock.

You are wasting your breath Billy , no- one said every Leaver was racist but the one sure thing is we will ALL be poorer as you said . The Labour Party need to step up to the plate pronto- they have played the waiting game far too long now - they are being deliberately tarred with the same brush by the Tories with this 84% voted for it argument ! 

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

[wilts rover]

For the majority their xenophobia clouded everything else to do with Brexit. It's definitely not gonna help Doncaster.

Here we go again. Any deal that stops us being allowed to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of that big world out there would be terrible and a complete waste of time leaving for me.

Remoaners constantly tagging leave voters as racist gets a bit tedious and boring. Then again most of these far left wing lunatic protesters don’t even know what the EU is. Just jump on a bandwagon go marching around protesting whilst the rest of us go to work.

Just for clarity Padge - are you saying that the people campaining to remain in the EU are left-wing lunatics?

Which would be strange as there are other people on here saying the left want a hard Brexit. Surely it can't be both?

But then again if you dont know, and you are reasonably well informed, then how is the country at large supposed to know. Maybe it's all this disinformation going around that is is feeding Billy's opinion polls?

In my opinion, for what that's worth, its the centerists (left and right) who want to Remain, the loony left who want a soft Brexit and the hard right who want a hard Brexit.

[wilts rover]

No genuine Leaver especially from poorer areas  of the country voted to be even poorer or potentially be less secure

Perhaps they were poor enough to think they had now't to lose so voted accordingly.

If that’s what they thought then they are in for a VERY nasty shock.

You would need to be very naive or in denial to believe they didn't though.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/brexit-vote-poor-elite
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/07/north-poor-brexit-myths

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.

I think they thought they couldn’t have it any worse.

And I think they are in for a f**king big surprise.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts

In my opinion, for what that's worth, its the centerists (left and right) who want to Remain, the loony left who want a soft Brexit and the hard right who want a hard Brexit.

Corbyn wants us out of both the SM and the CU. He’s been dragged kicking and screaming by Keir Starmer to a position where he will accept SOME FORM of customs arrangement, but not the CU.

What’s that if not a Hard Brexit? And where does that put Corbyn on your spectrum?

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44704561

Yet another stain on the Leave campaign.

Doubtless there’ll just be more shrugging of shoukders and wisecracking from Boris and we’ll all ignore it.

For the record, BeLeave was a company which campaigned for Brexit. It was set up by some pre-pubescent non-entity and then: Hey! Whaddya know! It gets a £600k donation! Which it uses to link with Cambridge Analytica to send focussed ads on social media.

Vote Leave have always said that Be Leave was nothing to do with them. Even though the spotty Herbert who set it up was a Vote Leave employee.

It was clear as day what had happened. VL had spent the maximum they could by law. But they needed one last target push (that Kitson Cumming had bragged about it). So they set up BL which meant they could (illegally) symphony more funds into the last minute advertising.

Criminality upon criminality. Oh yeah. And wait till you hear where the BL £600k came from...

[MachoMadness]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect
I'll just leave this here.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Which, in a very real sense, means that Democracy is f**ked.

[Bentley Bullet]

The problem is, and this is not directed at you BST, that nobody likes a smartarse, especially the ones who call people xenophobic, racist fools.

I think the attitude of many Remainers has contributed to the determination of many Leavers to remain defiant towards any negative prospects put out by them.

[RedJ]

"We don't care that democracy has been seriously undermined by a foreign power, the real issue is the smartarses on the other side!"

[Bentley Bullet]

Thing is if the leavers talk about being undermined by foreign powers they get called xenophobic, racist fools!

[RedJ]

Definitely the same thing as Russia pretty much rigging the referendum eh.

[SydneyRover]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect
I'll just leave this here.

Does the backfire effect mean the same as having crapped oneself?.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well THIS is interesting.

https://m.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2093159307675470/

Looks like, after 2 years of stupid, unpleasant posturing, May has finally seen sense. It looks like the new line is: Brexit means...errr...nothing much changes actually because anything else would be f**king lunacy.

Be fun to see how Rees-Mogg and the swivelled eyed loons on the Right of the Tory party respond to this one.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well THIS is interesting.

https://m.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2093159307675470/

Looks like, after 2 years of stupid, unpleasant posturing, May has finally seen sense. It looks like the new line is: Brexit means...errr...nothing much changes actually because anything else would be f**king lunacy.

Be fun to see how Rees-Mogg and the swivelled eyed loons on the Right of the Tory party respond to this one.

This is what Gove ripped up, isn't it? So much for unity!

[hoolahoop]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44704561

Yet another stain on the Leave campaign.

Doubtless there’ll just be more shrugging of shoukders and wisecracking from Boris and we’ll all ignore it.

For the record, BeLeave was a company which campaigned for Brexit. It was set up by some pre-pubescent non-entity and then: Hey! Whaddya know! It gets a £600k donation! Which it uses to link with Cambridge Analytica to send focussed ads on social media.

Vote Leave have always said that Be Leave was nothing to do with them. Even though the spotty Herbert who set it up was a Vote Leave employee.

It was clear as day what had happened. VL had spent the maximum they could by law. But they needed one last target push (that Kitson Cumming had bragged about it). So they set up BL which meant they could (illegally) symphony more funds into the last minute advertising.

Criminality upon criminality. Oh yeah. And wait till you hear where the BL £600k came from...

Then of course there is the money ( raised ?) and  spent by " Veterans for Leave " with AIQ,  the unexplained DUP monies that are from an unknown source but were used on the London Metro advertising for Leave but not in N.Ireland. Was it right that monies ( supposedly raised by NI Unionists ? ) was spent in England.

Believe me we haven't got to the bottom of the Arron Banks funding sources, offers of shares under market value in Russian diamond mines just days after the Referendum result and the lies about further meetings he had with key Russians that he lied to the Parliament Select Committee about but has now subsequently
admitted to having had recently in the Mueller investigation.


All in all a tangled web that will gradually unwind over the coming weeks and demonstrate just how unsafe that " advisory " Referendum result actually was,  sorry still is  !!

[The Red Baron]

Well THIS is interesting.

https://m.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2093159307675470/

Looks like, after 2 years of stupid, unpleasant posturing, May has finally seen sense. It looks like the new line is: Brexit means...errr...nothing much changes actually because anything else would be f**king lunacy.

Be fun to see how Rees-Mogg and the swivelled eyed loons on the Right of the Tory party respond to this one.

They won't be happy, of course, and will make a lot of noise about it. And when the EU turns down May's Third Way, they will say "see, told you so. The only way is a Hard Brexit."

Not saying I agree but that is how I see it playing out.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB
But a Hard Brexit (if by that you mean “no deal”) will not get through Parliament. Not a chance. There are only 80-100 MPs who ideologically want a No Deal Brexit. A few others might vote with them on the Will of the People bullshit principle. But 400+ probably more would vote against because a No Deal exit would be catastrophically damaging to the country.

So here’s the stupidity of the past 5 years.

Cameron called the Referendum to definitively sort out the issue that has torn the Tory Oarty apart for a generation.

He intended it to neuter the swivel-eyed loons.

It actually strengthened the swivel-eyed looms.

We’ve had two years since then of ferocious arguments in the Tory Party over which versions of plans that the EU would never accept should become policy.

The U.K. economy has stagnated while the world economy has boomed so we’ve all become significantly ooorer than we should have been.

The final policy that we seem to be settling in is the one that satisfies nobody (as one bright spark put it, our relationship with the EU will be “Pay, Obey, No Say) but is the least damaging in the circumstances.

And the wounds in the Tory party at the end of this process will be even deeper. The swivel-eyed loons will claim they and the people have been betrayed by the grown ups who stopped them destroying the country.

And the arguments will go on for another generation.


Cameron and May. Two catastrophically bad PMs who have led us into this waking nightmare. The history books will eviscerate them.

[The Red Baron]

BST

I am pretty sure we will end up with the Norway Model, or something very similar. May seems to be inching towards that. Although I don't think what she proposes will be acceptable to the EU, any more than it will be to her own hard liners.

It wouldn't altogether surprise me if we had a General Election in the autumn. Probably with the Tory leader being a Brexiteer. Whether that changes the Parliamentary arithmetic we will have to wait and see. Certainly the polls at the moment point to another Hung Parliament, so it probably won't change much.

By the way, I largely agree with your analysis. The Norway Model will satisfy neither Leavers nor Remainers. The former will see it as a halfway house to getting out altogether. The Remainers will want us to eventually rejoin the EU. The only way to  "settle the issue for a generation" was for Remain to secure a thumping victory in the Referendum. That was never all that likely anyway, and Cameron's botched negotiations and haste to hold the vote made it certain it wouldn't.

[MachoMadness]

Is it democratic to uphold an election result in which the winning side broke the law? And blatantly so?

[Filo]

In Centuries past the common people who were generally poor and had little to lose would have had an uprising against this lot

[SydneyRover]

Re-reading the story of the Dochester Labourers ..................... in 1834 six agricultural labourers from the village of Topuddle were sentenced to transportation for seven years. Why?

The law said it was because they had administered an oath which was illegal under the mutiny act of 1797.......................

We are sliding inexorably backwards where fewer and fewer people control more and more of the planet's wealth.

[MachoMadness]

How long before DD threatens to resign again?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/05/david-davis-says-mays-new-brexit-customs-plan-is-unworkable

[The Red Baron]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nick_clegg/status/1015152633118625793

For once, I think Cleggy has a point. What appears to be proposed will satisfy no-one. Anyway, the EU will probably kick it into touch so we'll be back to square one.