Brexit Negotiations

[The Red Baron]

So it seems the Brexit department isn't in charge of Brexit anymore. Outstanding stuff. The Thick Of It has nothing on this. https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2018-07-24/HCWS924

On the face of it, it makes sense for May to lead the negotiations. After all, the Chequers Plan is very much hers and presumably she understands it better than anyone else in the Cabinet.

Then you remember that (1) it is Theresa May we're talking about here and (2) more seriously, it doesn't give her much of a fall-back position if the EU dismisses her plan.

Personally I'd leave the negotiating to those chaps from Watford FC who have just persuaded Everton to part with the thick end of £50m for Richarlison. Those boys could sell sand to Arabs!

[albie]

Well, lets hope people do not want their pension if they move abroad, or need any health care for that matter;
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-ex-pat-pensions-illegal-retired-eu-europe-theresa-may-a8461166.html

Not too late yet, of course, but it seems a high price to pay for the benefits we might get.

[hoolahoop]

How dare you post such a thing, wonder how long before the 3 amigos pop up to shoot you down

So does that make you part of 'his ' gang or merely unable to comment on what is contained in a thought provoking post. I have issues with it and strangely enough bst has already raised some of them in particular how the EU has helped many Europeans out of the poverty trap but also more secure .

[hoolahoop]

Maybe its time to consider a divided Britain and separtate those that want to stay in Europe from those that dont, have a second vote and split the wealth (what there is left) per capita. Those that dont want to be part of Europe can live in the bits furthest away as they probably dont need access as much. Those that vote out and own businesses can move them into the new shitzen part of Britain where they can set up borders and custom controls and those in the EU bit can charge them for visas to enter or pass thru. I think this is an option worth considering as despite all the evidence (not rumours or fake news but evidence) that Britains people will be/are much worse because of it some of the hardened Brexiters seem determined to break from the EU, sort of like lemmings really and why should others have to suffer because of this.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-leave-no-deal-what-happens-eu-talks-david-davis-a8460416.html

maybe not such a bad idea, remember the ones who wanted to leave will require a bigger portion of the country thou as there was more of them

They get a bigger slice of the debt too, of course.

They can have the Royal Family too!yes we can have the royal family up north no problem with that

Oh good, if you're taking them up north we get all the Crown Properties that bring in the tourists!

Wewewewe 

You you you bpool's gang ?

[hoolahoop]

and your point is?

They are furriners

[BillyStubbsTears]

The left-wing case for leaving the European Union (championed by Tony Benn) wasn't even articulated leading up to the referendum.

That's actually a tad unfair. Corbyn himself discussed it on a left-wing American webinar a few hours before the polls opened. In fairness, while he didn't comment on the economic benefits of staying in the EU, he did say that we should Remain, because it's an interconnected world and plastic bags dropped off the coast of Colombia can end up in Japan.

To the barricades Comrades!

[hoolahoop]

The left-wing case for leaving the European Union (championed by Tony Benn) wasn't even articulated leading up to the referendum.

That's actually a tad unfair. Corbyn himself discussed it on a left-wing American webinar a few hours before the polls opened. In fairness, while he didn't comment on the economic benefits of staying in the EU, he did say that we should Remain, because it's an interconnected world and plastic bags dropped off the coast of Colombia can end up in Japan.

To the barricades Comrades!

All very good but is that what is best for this country ? Corbyn is all over the place but not actually in any place at the moment. The only " Remain " he understands is to remain politically inept
Take the 6 tests for instance , they are all well and good but until recently no-one one of merit was heard giving real voice to them . Does anyone know what they are ......We all should , 2 years down the line !

Why oh why have the Labour Party not insisted that the broadcasters, especially the BBC, be made to be far more even- handed in the way they have covered Brexit ? They have rarely if ever made BBC, ITV, Sky or any other topical programme ask the difficult questions. If they are asked then the interviewer cuts them off midstream. Question Time , Daily Politics, This Week are just there to advance the Brexit nonsense .

Who is speaking up for the 63% of the electorate that didnt vote to Leave or more simply more than 70 % of the population that didnt vote to be poorer , less secure, less free ?

If I see Farage ( not an MP) , Ian Duncan Smith ( failed leader ) , Suzanne Evans , Peter Bone , John Redwood or any other failed Tory or UKIP  " personality " on my screen ; I swear there will be projectile vomit covering my fecking TV. Oh and that t**t from " Spoons " . There is a complete lack of balance !

There Labour go voting this shit through like it's some magic panacea for the masses - patently it's not . It will hurt people , for some it will wreck their lives completely . It's not a game .

Sorry for the rant.

[bpoolrover]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/913065/Brexit-news-European-Union-EU-UK-BBC-bias-latest-vote-referendum/amp

[SydneyRover]

If it was this easy why has this government lost a leader and countless others trying to put it all together?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/25/plans-stockpile-food-blood-medicine-case-no-deal-brexit-sensible/

[hoolahoop]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/913065/Brexit-news-European-Union-EU-UK-BBC-bias-latest-vote-referendum/amp

Don't give me quotes/ surveys from  the Express please bpool - they are probably the most pro Brexit of all the newspapers out there . It totally lacks any balance whatsoever frankly it's a shite paper full of extreme views . They chuck these things at the BBC deliberately from their readership to put pressure on the BBC surely you can see that !

Tell them they are biased towards the Remain side so that they re- address the balance towards the Brexit case . It's obvious - don't insult my intelligence,  if not the BBC,  like both High and Supreme Court judges before them become "" ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE ".

[hoolahoop]

If it was this easy why has this government lost a leader and countless others trying to put it all together?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/25/plans-stockpile-food-blood-medicine-case-no-deal-brexit-sensible/

Everyone should take comfort from that  - why shouldn't this generation experience what those in WW2 went through  ! Stockpile indeed there will be a rush to buy the dry food stockpiled too - then we will be told that retail sales  are at an all- time high .

Who will panic the most ?  - the poor , the disabled and of course the sick !

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/913065/Brexit-news-European-Union-EU-UK-BBC-bias-latest-vote-referendum/amp

Funny how that 'research' seems to leave out all the rest of the News programme spectrum such as all the individual news bulletins, Newsnight, Daily Politics, Today programme, PM, The World At One, etc. etc. etc., and just talks about two single programmes. Where are the figures for all the rest? It couldn't be selective reporting at all, could it?

[Ldr]

Come on Glyn, the whole media has bias to its agenda one way or another. A neutral press is an illusion

[Glyn_Wigley]

Come on Glyn, the whole media has bias to its agenda one way or another. A neutral press is an illusion

So you'd agree that quoting one news source to prove another news source is biased is doubly pointless?

[MachoMadness]

Come on Glyn, the whole media has bias to its agenda one way or another. A neutral press is an illusion

While this is true, the BBC is certainly about as neutral as you're going to get. It's often to the detriment of the story, too. Not all topics are balanced. Take climate change - 97% of the world's scientists agree on the matter, the facts are inarguable. But because the Beeb has to be balanced, they're forced to present both sides of the issue equally. So they'll have climate change denying wingnuts given equal platforms alongside respected climate scientists. The angling that the BBC is anti-Brexit isn't something I've found to be true - they were very balanced in their reporting. Look at the TV time Farage, Johnson and the rest got.

[Ldr]

I think the proof that the been is fairly balanced (relatively) is that everyone thinks it is biased against them.

[Ldr]

Come on Glyn, the whole media has bias to its agenda one way or another. A neutral press is an illusion

So you'd agree that quoting one news source to prove another news source is biased is doubly pointless?

To an extent yes, belive what you see and experience, not what you are told, hear or read. Everything is biased, consciously or subconsciously, it's human nature

[hoolahoop]

The only measurement are verifiable statistics and even those are open to much interpretation. It's better to list those newspapers that folk generally agree are in one group or the other :-

      Pro- Brexit                     Anti- Brexit

       The Sun                       The Guardian
       The Daily Mail            The Observer
       The Daily Express      The Sunday Times
       The Mail on Sunday   The Independent
       The Times                    The Metro
       The Daily Telegraph    The Daily Mirror

As for the broadcasters many would argue that the BBC especially would peddle the Government line  never wanting to have any unpatriotic labels applied to them . Andrew Neil's political team on the BBC now being disbanded - job done .

[The Red Baron]

I don't know if the MoS has changed its editorial stance since the Referendum, but during the campaign it was very pro-Remain. In stark contrast to its sister Daily paper.

[hoolahoop]

I don't know if the MoS has changed its editorial stance since the Referendum, but during the campaign it was very pro-Remain. In stark contrast to its sister Daily paper.

Hmm you could be right on that one , perhaps that should fit in the middle ? That is just my perception of what I read

[Glyn_Wigley]

I don't know if the MoS has changed its editorial stance since the Referendum, but during the campaign it was very pro-Remain. In stark contrast to its sister Daily paper.

The two have been attacking each other for ages, as you'll know if you read Private Eye. It's a battle of egos between Dacre and Greig.

[hoolahoop]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/913065/Brexit-news-European-Union-EU-UK-BBC-bias-latest-vote-referendum/amp

Funny how that 'research' seems to leave out all the rest of the News programme spectrum such as all the individual news bulletins, Newsnight, Daily Politics, Today programme, PM, The World At One, etc. etc. etc., and just talks about two single programmes. Where are the figures for all the rest? It couldn't be selective reporting at all, could it?

Strange indeed that it is so selective or is it just bending of the news to suit the answer you want to get  ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way. You might recall me pointing out that the head of Vote Leave is on record as crowing that they paid some clever guys to focus adverts in the final week of the campaign through Facebook to people who they had (illegally) identified as being susceptible to being anti-immigrant. Cummings said they sent 1.5bn adds to 7million people.

Facebook have given Parliament a document with images from those ads.

Here they are.

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/Fake_news_evidence/Vote-Leave-50-Million-Ads.pdf

[bpoolrover]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/913065/Brexit-news-European-Union-EU-UK-BBC-bias-latest-vote-referendum/amp

Funny how that 'research' seems to leave out all the rest of the News programme spectrum such as all the individual news bulletins, Newsnight, Daily Politics, Today programme, PM, The World At One, etc. etc. etc., and just talks about two single programmes. Where are the figures for all the rest? It couldn't be selective reporting at all, could it?

Strange indeed that it is so selective or is it just bending of the news to suit the answer you want to get  ?

no hoola I couldn’t find any information on any of the other programmes you said

[hoolahoop]

By the way. You might recall me pointing out that the head of Vote Leave is on record as crowing that they paid some clever guys to focus adverts in the final week of the campaign through Facebook to people who they had (illegally) identified as being susceptible to being anti-immigrant. Cummings said they sent 1.5bn adds to 7million people.

Facebook have given Parliament a document with images from those ads.

Here they are.

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/Fake_news_evidence/Vote-Leave-50-Million-Ads.pdf

Christ Almighty , there is hardly a scintilla of truth amongst any of it .

People still insist that this might not have tipped the balance . If I thought they might have any truth in them I would have voted Leave !!

[hoolahoop]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/913065/Brexit-news-European-Union-EU-UK-BBC-bias-latest-vote-referendum/amp

Funny how that 'research' seems to leave out all the rest of the News programme spectrum such as all the individual news bulletins, Newsnight, Daily Politics, Today programme, PM, The World At One, etc. etc. etc., and just talks about two single programmes. Where are the figures for all the rest? It couldn't be selective reporting at all, could it?

Strange indeed that it is so selective or is it just bending of the news to suit the answer you want to get  ?

no hoola I couldn’t find any information on any of the other programmes you said

Forget that look at the disgusting lies that Facebook have confirmed were selectively picked out specifically to bring about the vote Leave - I'm surprised you haven't commented on that first

[BillyStubbsTears]

1.5bn ads. In 1 week.

And think about how they were sent.

Not “Look at ME!”

Just the ones that flash up almost subconsciously at the side of the screen when you load a page.

£350m a week for the NHS if we leave Europe.

Millions of Turks and Serbs and Albanians coming here if we stay.

Over and over and over and over again. Directed at people who had been profiled as not being very politically aware, and who were upset about immigration.

George Orwell had no idea...

It’s not done by kicking people in the knackers if they don’t agree with you and having massive posters saying Lies are Truth and imprisoning people if they rebel.

It’s done by imperceptibly whispering into 7 million isolated pairs of ears. In a way that makes them certain that the lies are truth and makes them kick back against anyone who points out that the lies are actually lies.

And that’s not ME being a sanctimonious holier than thou t**t saying that. The Leader of Vote Leave is on You Tube bragging about it.

[hoolahoop]

Be interesting if anyone on here received them  - I certainly don't think I would have been one of their targets

[Bentley Bullet]

Subliminal cuts have been used for donkey's years. They were used in radio broadcasts in WW2. They are now used on bigger audiences like social media.

[RedJ]

Yes. But in the past they weren't directly fired at individuals based on illegally harvested data.