Brexit Negotiations

[Glyn_Wigley]

That's a nice little story glyn

Not 'Project Fear', then?

[bpoolrover]

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/994973/food-prices-drop-post-brexit-empthy-supermarket-shelves-britain/amp

[Bentley Bullet]

https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-betting-system-work-How-does-the-bookie-make-a-profit

[Not Now Kato]

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/994973/food-prices-drop-post-brexit-empthy-supermarket-shelves-britain/amp

 
If you  believe what you read in the Express then there really is no hope for you.
 
Mind you, it does explain a lot about your logic.

[bpoolrover]

But at a guess the mirror and the independent will be good papers?

[SydneyRover]

http://www1.secam.ex.ac.uk/famous-forecasting-quotes.dhtml

https://www.scientology.org.au/

[SydneyRover]

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/994973/food-prices-drop-post-brexit-empthy-supermarket-shelves-britain/amp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Clark_(journalist)

[SydneyRover]

Rightwing UK thinktank 'offered ministerial access' to potential US donors

This could hugely benefit US farmers by lifting the ban on the sale in the UK of beef from cattle treated with growth hormones and chlorine-washed chicken.

M-mmm-southern fried chloriny chicken, would you like some hormones with that?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/29/rightwing-thinktank-ministerial-access-potential-us-donors-insitute-of-economic-affairs-brexit

[bpoolrover]

The point I was making Sydney is we’re not going to starve the minute we leave the eu, it’s scaremongering

[hoolahoop]

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/994973/food-prices-drop-post-brexit-empthy-supermarket-shelves-britain/amp

Nothing to worry about then think of the time saved  pawing over each and every item when the choice is limited to fewer items . Of course Brexit will have a further dividend in that these items will be so much cheaper at the tills.
What joy - it can't happen soon enough and there was all that other bollox written by people in the trade feck me ....What do they know !
I'm now an Expressiteer.

[hoolahoop]

This is your man , the Libertarian journalist who writes for the Spectator as well as other right wing rags. Hardly an expert ? 

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Ross-Clark-%28journalist%29

He has collaborated in the past with this particular politician :-

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Neil-O%27Brien

You can draw your own conclusions when You have read his bibliography.

[SydneyRover]

The point I was making Sydney is we’re not going to starve the minute we leave the eu, it’s scaremongering

Agreed only a fool would say that bpool, but even you would have to admit that things are not going well where ever you look and all these are starting to add up, chiselling away at people's wages and savings and trips abroad. What will happen when regional areas stop getting European development funds, will we go back to feeding the London black hole? These are the things we need our leaders to spell out in blood so if it doesn't happen and they do go back to the bad old days they are forced to resign every f*cking one of them.

[hoolahoop]

2500 GBP = 23,656.5000 DKK
264.2500 GBP = 2500 DKK
on 06/06/2016

Best current rate is now DKK 20616

This is a perfect example of the loss in the exchange rate , I know because I have just ordered  £ 2500  ready to take my daughter to her new university in Copenhagen. 3040 Danish Kroner less than what it would have been. I would need to spend some £ 2800 now . Now I am sure there are millions of examples out there of people that are out of pocket too on their holidays this year . This is but one example now imagine the problems that our importers of food from the EU are faced with when filling their shelves of every product.
They either have to work on lower profit margins or increase their prices. Evidence is that they have probably done both but for how long . If they make less profits they then will pay less to the Exchequer. All this is purely down to currency exchange rates.

Similarly £ to € , it was 1.29 ( 1/6/16 ) but now is 1.12 leave you to do the maths.

[Filo]

Thing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up.

To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. 

That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat.

And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”

So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”

And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Round and round the f**king hamster wheel.

And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this thread

[hoolahoop]

Thing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up.

To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. 

That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat.

And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”

So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”

And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Round and round the f**king hamster wheel.

And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this thread

You did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations.

However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo.

Yes, but that’s not because the EU is trying to be deliberately obstructive. They are just playing their hand. In order to get the best result for them. There’s nothing immoral or unfair about that. It’s how serious negotiations work. We’ve stumbled into a situation where we hold none of the cards. And we are panicking. Despite having been told by Gove and Fox and Johnson that we would be easily able to negotiate a deal.

[hoolahoop]

None of us are comfortable with that situation either - how do we get any benefit from losing which was suggested earlier by another poster . It's costing us all a load of money, going " all in " on a pair of deuces.

It's cost me £300  on one currency exchange transaction alone . No doubt the decision has cost us all in different ways .

[Filo]

Thing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up.

To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. 

That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat.

And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”

So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”

And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Round and round the f**king hamster wheel.

And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this thread

You did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations.

However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us .

This might sound like little Englander, but going back to the WW2 every one of those 27 Countries owes us a great debt for standing up to the Nazis, along with our allies, it cost the UK a substantial amount of money to fight that cause, taking years to repay the debt, and now all it appears to be happening is they all collectivley want to stick the knife in our back and give it a good twist, all be it the situation is of our own making. Many Many of our Countrymen died for their freedom. I still say they want to punish us for voting to leave, nothing has been ceeded by them, negotiation is a process where each pary concedes things to gain in other areas, what is happening now is we are being dictated to, hot negotiation

[Boomstick]

Meanwhile.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-on-standby-for-no-deal-brexit-emergency-dz3359lrf

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dont-panic-well-deal-with-no-deal-bs7sk5vxg

What was it Gove said? Oh aye. We hold all the cards in the Brexit negotiations.

What was it Fox said? Oh aye. The negotiations will be the easiest ever.

Still, bright side, eh? Many of the pensioner Brexit voters were pining for a Britain that they remembered from the past. Looks like they’ll get what the wanted. No deal Brexit means the shops will be empty, there’ll be rationing and you’ll die from what should be easily treatable I’ll esses because we’ll not have the medicine. Just like the 1940s.

the eu then has a moral obligation as well as a financial one to stop being f**king awkward and agree on a deal

[MachoMadness]

Meanwhile.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-on-standby-for-no-deal-brexit-emergency-dz3359lrf

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dont-panic-well-deal-with-no-deal-bs7sk5vxg

What was it Gove said? Oh aye. We hold all the cards in the Brexit negotiations.

What was it Fox said? Oh aye. The negotiations will be the easiest ever.

Still, bright side, eh? Many of the pensioner Brexit voters were pining for a Britain that they remembered from the past. Looks like they’ll get what the wanted. No deal Brexit means the shops will be empty, there’ll be rationing and you’ll die from what should be easily treatable I’ll esses because we’ll not have the medicine. Just like the 1940s.

the eu then has a moral obligation as well as a financial one to stop being f**king awkward and agree on a deal

Boomstick, I'll buy your house off you. I'll give you £1 and half a pack of chewing gum for it.

What do you mean no? Stop being so f**king awkward, you've got a moral obligation to agree a deal with me!

[RedJ]

Meanwhile.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-on-standby-for-no-deal-brexit-emergency-dz3359lrf

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dont-panic-well-deal-with-no-deal-bs7sk5vxg

What was it Gove said? Oh aye. We hold all the cards in the Brexit negotiations.

What was it Fox said? Oh aye. The negotiations will be the easiest ever.

Still, bright side, eh? Many of the pensioner Brexit voters were pining for a Britain that they remembered from the past. Looks like they’ll get what the wanted. No deal Brexit means the shops will be empty, there’ll be rationing and you’ll die from what should be easily treatable I’ll esses because we’ll not have the medicine. Just like the 1940s.

the eu then has a moral obligation as well as a financial one to stop being f**king awkward and agree on a deal

Why do they? we're the ones telling them where to go by leaving.

[hoolahoop]

Thing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up.

To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. 

That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat.

And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”

So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”

And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Round and round the f**king hamster wheel.

And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this thread

You did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations.

However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us .

This might sound like little Englander, but going back to the WW2 every one of those 27 Countries owes us a great debt for standing up to the Nazis, along with our allies, it cost the UK a substantial amount of money to fight that cause, taking years to repay the debt, and now all it appears to be happening is they all collectivley want to stick the knife in our back and give it a good twist, all be it the situation is of our own making. Many Many of our Countrymen died for their freedom. I still say they want to punish us for voting to leave, nothing has been ceeded by them, negotiation is a process where each pary concedes things to gain in other areas, what is happening now is we are being dictated to, hot negotiation

Do they still " owe us " and if they did cave in might the EU collapse and have countries at each others throats again ? This is one of the reasons it was set up ......to ensure  that a war never starts ever again . This is one of the reasons WE held the recent EU  Balkan Summit that our foreign secretary at the time did a " no show " at preferring to put his notice in instead.

[hoolahoop]

Thing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up.

To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. 

That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat.

And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”

So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”

And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Round and round the f**king hamster wheel.

And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this thread

You did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations.

However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us .

This might sound like little Englander, but going back to the WW2 every one of those 27 Countries owes us a great debt for standing up to the Nazis, along with our allies, it cost the UK a substantial amount of money to fight that cause, taking years to repay the debt, and now all it appears to be happening is they all collectivley want to stick the knife in our back and give it a good twist, all be it the situation is of our own making. Many Many of our Countrymen died for their freedom. I still say they want to punish us for voting to leave, nothing has been ceeded by them, negotiation is a process where each pary concedes things to gain in other areas, what is happening now is we are being dictated to, hot negotiation

You are making exactly the same points you were making 74 pages ago , since then masses of things have happened . I appreciate your points but you haven't taken into account that they had nothing that they were trying or rather had to gain . Many raise 2 particular points that we had as strengths :

1) Trade - fact is very little would alter on that front so it could never be a trump card and to the other side it was always a shared cost between 27 nations , whose combined economic strength was over 6/7 times bigger.
2) Security - we overplayed our hand on this one forgetting we were as reliant on them as they were on us especially with increasing terrorism on the continent over the last 2 years. Another trump card gone .

Following on from this was the EU - Canada, EU- Japan, EU- South Korea and potential EU- AUS  and EU - NZ deals as well as progress in a Ukrainian and Turkish deals .
Seems to me that on trade that leaves us in the hands of the USA, China and South America . All in all that doesn't sound healthy to me.

[bpoolrover]

On the shared
Cost hoola I doubt that will be the case, in theory yes but Some of the countries won't be able to split the cost as have no money

[Boomstick]

Meanwhile.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-on-standby-for-no-deal-brexit-emergency-dz3359lrf

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dont-panic-well-deal-with-no-deal-bs7sk5vxg

What was it Gove said? Oh aye. We hold all the cards in the Brexit negotiations.

What was it Fox said? Oh aye. The negotiations will be the easiest ever.

Still, bright side, eh? Many of the pensioner Brexit voters were pining for a Britain that they remembered from the past. Looks like they’ll get what the wanted. No deal Brexit means the shops will be empty, there’ll be rationing and you’ll die from what should be easily treatable I’ll esses because we’ll not have the medicine. Just like the 1940s.

the eu then has a moral obligation as well as a financial one to stop being f**king awkward and agree on a deal

Boomstick, I'll buy your house off you. I'll give you £1 and half a pack of chewing gum for it.

What do you mean no? Stop being so f**king awkward, you've got a moral obligation to agree a deal with me!

funny. although holds no relevance to the point i was making .
suggest you read that first article linked. exactly the type of fear mongering remoaners have wet dreams over.

[RedJ]

I'll assume you've missed my question rather than ignore it because you can't answer - why does the EU have any obligation to offer us anything?

[Boomstick]

I'll assume you've missed my question rather than ignore it because you can't answer - why does the EU have any obligation to offer us anything?

I was referring to the fear mongering article, about mobilising the military to help distribute supplies in the event of the eu refusing a deal.
(this of course won't happen)

[Glyn_Wigley]

Thing is Ldr. There was never any prospect of the negotiations being anything other than a monumental f**k up.

To negotiate, you need a strong bottom line. The one that says “Give is something or we will walk away”. 

That’s what this bunch of f**king idiots is now trying to do with the No Deal threat. But the EU negotiators know that would be Britain cutting our own throat. So they are laughing at the threat.

And that means there’s zero incentive on the EU to give an inch. Why on Earth should they? Would you? Would you say “Yeah go on. You e abused us and lied about us for years. Let’s give you a deal that gives you all the benefits and none of the problems!”

So the EU says in fact. “Here’s the deal. You do what we say or...well or what? You e no alternative.”

And the Right Wing of the Tory Party says “How dare they! We’re British! We’ll bloody well walk away.”

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Round and round the f**king hamster wheel.

And that is exactly what I said in my opening post of this thread

You did indeed Filo and how right you were . Sorry the site went down here but you also said that France owed us a debt going back many years and of course Germany still owed Greece a substantial amount of war reparations.

However those 2 points you raised were never going to compensate the 27 or could they put their principal tenets at risk and risk losing the EU project over us .

This might sound like little Englander, but going back to the WW2 every one of those 27 Countries owes us a great debt for standing up to the Nazis, along with our allies, it cost the UK a substantial amount of money to fight that cause, taking years to repay the debt, and now all it appears to be happening is they all collectivley want to stick the knife in our back and give it a good twist, all be it the situation is of our own making. Many Many of our Countrymen died for their freedom. I still say they want to punish us for voting to leave, nothing has been ceeded by them, negotiation is a process where each pary concedes things to gain in other areas, what is happening now is we are being dictated to, hot negotiation

And what did you do in the war that means the 27 EU nations owe you something, Filo?

PS If it's all about bodycount, how much exactly do we and the rest of Europe owe Putin and the rest of Russia?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Meanwhile.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-on-standby-for-no-deal-brexit-emergency-dz3359lrf

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dont-panic-well-deal-with-no-deal-bs7sk5vxg

What was it Gove said? Oh aye. We hold all the cards in the Brexit negotiations.

What was it Fox said? Oh aye. The negotiations will be the easiest ever.

Still, bright side, eh? Many of the pensioner Brexit voters were pining for a Britain that they remembered from the past. Looks like they’ll get what the wanted. No deal Brexit means the shops will be empty, there’ll be rationing and you’ll die from what should be easily treatable I’ll esses because we’ll not have the medicine. Just like the 1940s.

the eu then has a moral obligation as well as a financial one to stop being f**king awkward and agree on a deal

They have no such thing.

[RedJ]

I'll assume you've missed my question rather than ignore it because you can't answer - why does the EU have any obligation to offer us anything?

I was referring to the fear mongering article, about mobilising the military to help distribute supplies in the event of the eu refusing a deal.
(this of course won't happen)

What makes you so certain?