Brexit Negotiations

[hoolahoop]

Will of the people only matters when it suits.

Yes it has many lying, scheming faces .

76 pages and still we await The answer to the question - How will we benefit from Brexit ? ( backed up with supporting evidence ) and a plan.

[SydneyRover]

Will of the people only matters when it suits.

Yes it has many lying, scheming faces .

76 pages and still we await The answer to the question - How will we benefit from Brexit ? ( backed up with supporting evidence ) and a plan

But at least we are inexorably moving in the right direction Hoola.

"We’re already campaigning as if we’re having a second referendum – why not see it through?"

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/second-referendum-brexit-final-say-julian-dunkerton-peoples-vote-nigel-farage-a8498546.html

[Glyn_Wigley]

It all seems to have gone very quiet on the Brexit negotiation front since St Teresa took personal charge, and I would imagine if there had been anything achieved we'd have all heard about it by now...

[Sprotyrover]

Is it just me or do other members feel that Dominic RAABs No Deal announcement today is a catalyst to ensure there is something positive agreed at next weeks Brussels meeting.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Is it just me or do other members feel that Dominic RAABs No Deal announcement today is a catalyst to ensure there is something positive agreed at next weeks Brussels meeting.

No. Because the terms of exit from the EU were laid out right from the start and non-negotiable. The 'negotiations' are all about life after Brexit and the EU don't owe us anything. And as for 'they need a deal just as much as we need one', that just isn't true.

[MachoMadness]

"Give us what we want and concede on every one of your red lines or we're completely f**ked" isn't the strongest negotiating position all things considered.

[wilts rover]

I like the one for Northern Ireland. The official UK government advice for their citizens in NI in the event of no-deal Brexit is....go ask Dublin what you should do!!!!

If anyone wanted any clearer indication that this government hasn't got a clue what to do, there it is. Resign now the lot of you.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I like the one for Northern Ireland. The official UK government advice for their citizens in NI in the event of no-deal Brexit is....go ask Dublin what you should do!!!!

If anyone wanted any clearer indication that this government hasn't got a clue what to do, there it is. Resign now the lot of you.

Even better were the parts where he talked about the EU reciprocating. That sounds rather like a 'deal' scenario instead of a 'no deal' one!

[hoolahoop]

Is it just me or do other members feel that Dominic RAABs No Deal announcement today is a catalyst to ensure there is something positive agreed at next weeks Brussels meeting.

No. Because the terms of exit from the EU were laid out right from the start and non-negotiable. The 'negotiations' are all about life after Brexit and the EU don't owe us anything. And as for 'they need a deal just as much as we need one', that just isn't true.

And like it or not the money up front is payable and is nothing to do with The line of " nothing is agreed until everyth ing is agreed " claptrap !

We are still trying to convince the man holding a royal flush that somehow our pair of deuces beats him ,  Illogical or what ?

Whilst I write this I'm conscious of a conversation I had earlier with my Faroese host who it was fair to say couldn't get his head around the idea of our obsession with the fishing industry. He thought it almost appeared to be verging on the dramatic and completely out of all logical context considering the effect it had on our economy !

Here they are just as aware of the dangers of an " open door " policy on immigration however they recognise that their society could potentially  break down eventually not because of them but because of the lack of them in their society. They have in an inimitable Danish way just stabilised their birth and death rates and only 87% are of full or part Danish parentage. Integration is key and they find the same reluctance for both the immigrants themselves to integrate as well as their own own people to allow that integration. The language is seen as key to breaking down the barriers even if , because of the difficulty of speaking Danish, they and their hosts use ....English ! The amount of good " spoken "  English you hear amongst even Danes themselves in conversations is remarkable and the quality of the grammar used  should shame many of us. I suppose having mastered a tongue twisting language of their own ; then ours becomes a piece of piss.

What a lovely place this is if you are thinking about where to take a break, then rock on over here - you won't be disappointed.

[RedJ]

You'd hope at some point the penny will drop and will realise they've been convinced that Miss Homeless Barnsley is actually Miss World.

[hoolahoop]

Is it just me or do other members feel that Dominic RAABs No Deal announcement today is a catalyst to ensure there is something positive agreed at next weeks Brussels meeting.

No. Because the terms of exit from the EU were laid out right from the start and non-negotiable. The 'negotiations' are all about life after Brexit and the EU don't owe us anything. And as for 'they need a deal just as much as we need one', that just isn't true.

Nothing's changed , nothing's changed !! Sproty if you think our set of drama queens will change the dynamic just because we have gone into " wartime "  mode then think again .

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/the-van-driver-being-put-out-of-business-by-brexit/

These are all worth a listen O' Brien although he does talk a little too much does deal in facts not opinion and forces his callers to back up their opinions with not only reasoned logic but fact - he doesn't suffer fools gladly

Have you heard the one with the International Trade expert? It's enough to make you shit your pants when he lays it all out as it really is and not how the Brexiteers fantasise it is.

Yeah heard that one Gluyn but can't help thinking that James O' Brien's voice is one on a wilderness of oncoming dystopia. The voices for Remain simply arent cutting through despite the fact that they are on the right side of the argument.

JRM, Farage etc seem to have a platform to fend off any logical argument against Brexit and are using it via the MSM, the BBC, Sky News, Fox, RT etc. They have them ALL in their pocket - witness just the lack of any comment from Leavers  on this forum alone to not only the phone- in above but all the facts , arguments etc that have posted on this thread .

There is NOT one agreement , anywhere from any of the Leavers following this thread that they might just be wrong on anything at all . It's beyond sad.

I hope O'Brien gets that bloke in the studio like he wants, answering caller's questions, for a full programme. That'll be something worth listening to, especially if he squashes a lot of the mythology around Brexit.

Jason Hunter again, this time educating one of Brexit's 'experts'.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1032919155882778625

And the most illuminating part of it is the three seconds of dead air when the Brexit 'expert' realises he's just had his ignorance shown up in neon lights and he's got no reply to it. And then has to resort to the usual slogans by default.

Mind you, with 'experts' like their own, it's no wonder Brexiters don't trust any at all.

[hoolahoop]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/the-van-driver-being-put-out-of-business-by-brexit/

These are all worth a listen O' Brien although he does talk a little too much does deal in facts not opinion and forces his callers to back up their opinions with not only reasoned logic but fact - he doesn't suffer fools gladly

Have you heard the one with the International Trade expert? It's enough to make you shit your pants when he lays it all out as it really is and not how the Brexiteers fantasise it is.

Yeah heard that one Gluyn but can't help thinking that James O' Brien's voice is one on a wilderness of oncoming dystopia. The voices for Remain simply arent cutting through despite the fact that they are on the right side of the argument.

JRM, Farage etc seem to have a platform to fend off any logical argument against Brexit and are using it via the MSM, the BBC, Sky News, Fox, RT etc. They have them ALL in their pocket - witness just the lack of any comment from Leavers  on this forum alone to not only the phone- in above but all the facts , arguments etc that have posted on this thread .

There is NOT one agreement , anywhere from any of the Leavers following this thread that they might just be wrong on anything at all . It's beyond sad.

I hope O'Brien gets that bloke in the studio like he wants, answering caller's questions, for a full programme. That'll be something worth listening to, especially if he squashes a lot of the mythology around Brexit.

Jason Hunter again, this time educating one of Brexit's 'experts'.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1032919155882778625

And the most illuminating part of it is the three seconds of dead air when the Brexit 'expert' realises he's just had his ignorance shown up in neon lights and he's got no reply to it. And then has to resort to the usual slogans by default.

Mind you, with 'experts' like their own, it's no wonder Brexiters don't trust any at all.

That " 3 seconds of silence " feels like an eternity.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ian Dunt hits the nail on the head.

"So grimly predictable that after being shown to be wrong on point after point after point, all he has to offer is: He's trying to undermine the result."

Nah nah nah...Will of the People.

Nah nah nah...undermining the democratic decision.

Nah nah nah...suck it up Remoaners, you lost.

That exchange kind of sums up the discussion.

On one side, experts who spend their lives dealing with international trade issues. setting out fact-based arguments.

On the other side, gobshite journalists and barrow boy MPs. Setting out nothing. Literally nothing.


You know what? I'm starting to think the country DESERVES Brexit. If we're so f**king stupid as a country that we are determined to ignore the facts staring us in the face, we DESERVE the consequences. Let the Brexiteers have the country they have voted for.

[Glyn_Wigley]

"The UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO"

http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

No doubt this will be dismissed as Project Fear.

Until you look at what website it's on.

And you also note that it was written nearly 18 months ago and it still doesn't seem to have sunk in with many Brexiters, especially the ERG.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glyn

Good find.

The issue is, of course, that no one other than the most extreme swivel-eyed loon really wants us to have a no deal Brexit.

It's all about the politics. The t**ts on the far right of the Tory party are bigging up No Deal, so that they can knife May when she goes for something less suicidal. They can claim that Brexit has been sold out, without ever having to face the lunacy of what they are purporting to support.

They are f**kers of the highest order. They are pushing the country to the brink and utterly f**king our relationship with Europe for the next half century for one reason alone - for them to gain control of the Tory party.

Every working class person who has been dragged along with this game has been played by the Farages and the Rees-Moggs and the Goves and the Johnsons. They do not give a flying f**k about you. They are using you for their ends.

[wilts rover]

No deal wont happen, there are enough Tory MP's determined to prevent it.
https://www.ft.com/content/89982810-a773-11e8-8ecf-a7ae1beff35b

As to what will happen - it should keep us going for another 70 pages I reckon.

[Glyn_Wigley]

No deal wont happen, there are enough Tory MP's determined to prevent it.
https://www.ft.com/content/89982810-a773-11e8-8ecf-a7ae1beff35b

As to what will happen - it should keep us going for another 70 pages I reckon.

From what it appears there's no deal that might be presented to Parliament to vote on that would get an overall majority for ratification...which would dump us into No Deal territory on Brexit Day by default.

[auckleyflyer]

Hang on a minute, there was much fuss about the backstop position that was voted on? This is the default "no deal" position to explicitly prevent a no deal exit???
From memory(dont shoot me!) It was quite a soft brexit position? Maybe its a convoluted way of ending up with the softest exit??
Or have I indeed gone senile?!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well. The Brexiteers are finally, after two years, coming up with a solution to the Irish Border issue.

The Minister for the 18th Century thinks we could go back to the arrangements we had during the Troubles. Genius!

https://twitter.com/stephen_rth/status/1033033628303941638

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well. The Brexiteers are finally, after two years, coming up with a solution to the Irish Border issue.

The Minister for the 18th Century thinks we could go back to the arrangements we had during the Troubles. Genius!

https://twitter.com/stephen_rth/status/1033033628303941638

I'd love to know what the DUP response is!

PS Weren't 'the arrangements' during the troubles that the border was patrolled by armed soldiers?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Aye. I assume Rees-Mogg is picturing them wearing frock coats and carrying muskets.

[Sprotyrover]

Well. The Brexiteers are finally, after two years, coming up with a solution to the Irish Border issue.

The Minister for the 18th Century thinks we could go back to the arrangements we had during the Troubles. Genius!

https://twitter.com/stephen_rth/status/1033033628303941638

Well that twitter feed turned into a complete and utter shambles,posting rubbish like this makes you look thick.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sproty.

The rest of the discussion is meaningless. Just concentrate on what the Brexiteer-in-Chief, Rees-Mogg says. Look at the ridiculousness of the content of what he says the post-Brexit situation will be. There is nothing sensible in anything he ever says. His usual approach is a content-free "It'll be fine". Now we know why. Because when he suggests something concrete, it is utterly shambolic.

Point out to me anything that any Brexiteer has ever said in detail about why Brexit will work out well for us.

[SydneyRover]

Sproty.

The rest of the discussion is meaningless. Just concentrate on what the Brexiteer-in-Chief, Rees-Mogg says. Look at the ridiculousness of the content of what he says the post-Brexit situation will be. There is nothing sensible in anything he ever says. His usual approach is a content-free "It'll be fine". Now we know why. Because when he suggests something concrete, it is utterly shambolic.

Point out to me anything that any Brexiteer has ever said in detail about why Brexit will work out well for us.

BST these idiots just take turns grabbing the spot-light one gaff at a time, back to you Boris?.

[RedJ]

Ah so it's okay to quote the Guardian when it suits your point of view but otherwise it's biased?

[bpoolrover]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/06/brexit-britain-property-bubble.        Someone else point of view on it, don’t know why it quoted everyone on last post

[bpoolrover]

Ah so it's okay to quote the Guardian when it suits your point of view but otherwise it's biased?

I’m not saying he is right it’s just another take on it spadge

[RedJ]

So why even post it if you're not saying he's right, "spadge"?

[bpoolrover]

Because it’s a forum where you can post what you want, u seem to post enough shitty comments to people no problem