Should Saunders be sacked

[coppsisgod]

Putting an actual striker up front like Robbie Blake is probably better then putting erm... a defender up front? And for anyone who says RB looks unfit well DS signed him. I have never been behind Saunders, he was in charge for 38 out of 46 league games last season. He took us down, he is out of his depth, tactically inept and not making any substitutions is just madness. If he is still in charge next season I wont be renewing my season ticket for the first time since I bought my first one in 98/99. SAUNDERS OUT.

[DubaiRover]

When you give your season ticket up will you also leave this forum?

[Mr1Croft]

It comes back to the original argument with the football we play now compared to the passing game. When you win either way you look good and the fans go home happy. If you lose playing passing football you can come away from the game thinking "well at least we had a decent go at them and played a pretty decent performance". However if you lose playing what is known today as the "ugly way" and you come away from the game with hardly any positives and look at the manager for the faults because it is his tactics.


For me personally last night was a cruel reality check, in the first few games of the season we have never looked anything special but we have been efficient in getting the job done when it mattered, but last night we came up against a team with a clear tactical game plan that may have involved diving and foul throws but they shut us out for the most part (we didn't help ourselves) and we were punished.


I still think Saunders has a lot to learn regarding tactics (especially subs) as he is as new to this league as he was to the Championship. Some of the poor results such as this and the Crawley game can be blamed on him (ultimately a manager's career rises and falls with results) but I wouldn't go as far as say he should be sacked. Money is tight, why do we want to waste more paying him off and finding someone else?


I think he should be able to see the season out with us finishing probably not in the play offs but far from the relegation zone relatively comfortable with a place in League One, why should we risk that because others think we should go a whole season unbeaten.

[Wellred]

It comes back to the original argument with the football we play now compared to the passing game. When you win either way you look good and the fans go home happy. If you lose playing passing football you can come away from the game thinking "well at least we had a decent go at them and played a pretty decent performance". However if you lose playing what is known today as the "ugly way" and you come away from the game with hardly any positives and look at the manager for the faults because it is his tactics.


For me personally last night was a cruel reality check, in the first few games of the season we have never looked anything special but we have been efficient in getting the job done when it mattered, but last night we came up against a team with a clear tactical game plan that may have involved diving and foul throws but they shut us out for the most part (we didn't help ourselves) and we were punished.


I still think Saunders has a lot to learn regarding tactics (especially subs) as he is as new to this league as he was to the Championship. Some of the poor results such as this and the Crawley game can be blamed on him (ultimately a manager's career rises and falls with results) but I wouldn't go as far as say he should be sacked. Money is tight, why do we want to waste more paying him off and finding someone else?


I think he should be able to see the season out with us finishing probably not in the play offs but far from the relegation zone relatively comfortable with a place in League One, why should we risk that because others think we should go a whole season unbeaten.

Strange how people see things differently.
I for one never came away from a game happy when we played "pretty" football under the previous Manager and still lost. For me the last 12 months of his reign when we passed teams to death in our own half and either lost or drew games was boring.

We now have a Manager who didn't make a substitution when we was losing and he is castigated for it.
Then previous Manager had a dreadful habit of making 2 or 3 very late substitutions when we were either winning or losing and invariably we got punished for it. How many times did we concede goals from the 85th minute and not win after making a substitution?

As I said some people really do see things differently.
Or is that just double standards?

[RobTheRover]

And on another night, The Decorator's drive would have hit the underside of the bar and gone in and with 10 mins to go we had the momentum.

Eeeh, football, eh?  Its all fine margins.

[Mr1Croft]

It comes back to the original argument with the football we play now compared to the passing game. When you win either way you look good and the fans go home happy. If you lose playing passing football you can come away from the game thinking "well at least we had a decent go at them and played a pretty decent performance". However if you lose playing what is known today as the "ugly way" and you come away from the game with hardly any positives and look at the manager for the faults because it is his tactics.


For me personally last night was a cruel reality check, in the first few games of the season we have never looked anything special but we have been efficient in getting the job done when it mattered, but last night we came up against a team with a clear tactical game plan that may have involved diving and foul throws but they shut us out for the most part (we didn't help ourselves) and we were punished.


I still think Saunders has a lot to learn regarding tactics (especially subs) as he is as new to this league as he was to the Championship. Some of the poor results such as this and the Crawley game can be blamed on him (ultimately a manager's career rises and falls with results) but I wouldn't go as far as say he should be sacked. Money is tight, why do we want to waste more paying him off and finding someone else?


I think he should be able to see the season out with us finishing probably not in the play offs but far from the relegation zone relatively comfortable with a place in League One, why should we risk that because others think we should go a whole season unbeaten.

Strange how people see things differently.
I for one never came away from a game happy when we played "pretty" football under the previous Manager and still lost. For me the last 12 months of his reign when we passed teams to death in our own half and either lost or drew games was boring.

We now have a Manager who didn't make a substitution when we was losing and he is castigated for it.
Then previous Manager had a dreadful habit of making 2 or 3 very late substitutions when we were either winning or losing and invariably we got punished for it. How many times did we concede goals from the 85th minute and not win after making a substitution?

As I said some people really do see things differently.
Or is that just double standards?

No double standards here, I always admitted that SOD's biggest flaw was his substitutions, and the trend has carried on.
 
I also agree with you regarding the last 12 months of SOD, because when we lost in those games we were poor. However I was speaking more of the 08/09 and 09/10 seasons when we played the best passing football. But that's just me, I could live with walking away when the performance was better with the result but that is my own opinion, SOD was still at fault for the results in those games whichever way you look at it because performance means nothing in terms of points. Some people (possibly like you) only see the result was the factor in whether a peformance was good or not and I understand and respect that.
That said I'm not on suicide watch after yesterday, we were never going to win every home game and sometimes you have to take results like that on the chin and move on.

[Ben Graham]

Tactically clueless! Sick to the backteeth of watching hoofball every game from a team that has no leadership.  Its been like it ever since he tookover, and if the club want to get the crowds back something has got to happen soon.

I go because I have got a season ticket but everyone I know who used to go to games no longer go as often because of all the shite that is being served up every week.

[dickos1]

It's not hard to understand. Best start to a season because we have the most points after so many games. Regardless of what league were in, in those 10 years we've played in the conference, league 1, championship.
And this season we've started better.
It doesn't need a big analysis it's a simple fact.

[bobjimwilly]

Sick to the backteeth of watching hoofball every game from a team that has no leadership.  Its been like it ever since he tookover, and if the club want to get the crowds back something has got to happen soon.

I go because I have got a season ticket but everyone I know who used to go to games no longer go as often because of all the shite that is being served up every week.

Did you enjoy going to all those games we were hopeless last season?

I disagree with the lack of team leadership as well - Rob Jones is a leader on the field if I ever saw one!

[godlike1]

He deserves to get to the end of the season to see how he does. I think he's not doing a bad job and has certainly improved the squad based on what we had at the start of he season other than prob copps and sharp.

The problem is he's still v inexperienced compared to most managers and he's going to make mistakes and look clueless at times but hopefully get it right more often than not. Will that be enough to get us automatic promotion? Nope not on your nelly

Will it be enough to get us in the playoffs? Maybe and we may then just fluke it depending who we get

He does deserve more support from the fans though as he's had nothin but shit since he came here and he's got us far further up the table than I thought he would at this stage

[Scooter]

Have you ever considered that Dean may have a master plan? He clearly doesn't want to win every game and gain automatic promotion - leave that to Tranmere & Notts County. He is going to plod along gradually gaining momentum before a late play off charge. Sneak a lucky win in the semis before beating Sheff Utd at Wembley therefore becoming a Rovers legend! Simples 

[Yargo]

And on another night, The Decorator's drive would have hit the underside of the bar and gone in and with 10 mins to go we had the momentum.

Eeeh, football, eh?  Its all fine margins.

Aye and if Preston hadnt hit the bar in the first half we may have lost by more than 1-3

[dickos1]

We had more opportunities than them last night, not saying we were good.
But we weren't as clinical as they were,

[mjdgreg]

No-one wants him gone more than me but I also think we should give the bloke a chance. Getting rid now would probably do more harm than good and you never know he may surprise me (he already has with the number of points we've currently got). If we're slipping down the league between now and Xmas then that is the time to get rid.

[River Don]

I'm not a fan of the football we're being served up but never mind that the results so far are pretty good.

Calling for his head after a poor home performance and bad result is the worst kind of knee jerk reaction.

I question the decision to appoint him in the first place, to me it seemed a hasty choice and the comment that he was "offered to us" was revealing but that's all in the past now.

Considering the constraints he's been put under I think Saunders deserves the opportunity to see this season out, let's see what he delivers. Then the club will be able to make a bit evaluation.

[FuzzyDuck]

It's not hard to understand. Best start to a season because we have the most points after so many games. Regardless of what league were in, in those 10 years we've played in the conference, league 1, championship.
And this season we've started better.
It doesn't need a big analysis it's a simple fact.

Not quite right.

2002/03 after 9 we had won 6 and drawn 2 - 20 points (Conference)
2004/05 after 9 we had won 4 and drawn 2 - 14 points (League 1 - equalling this season)

Best start since 2004/05 still isn't a bad boast.  Except we are notorious bad starters so in the first 9 games we haven't set ourselves much of a mark to beat.  11th place 9 games in is hardly tearing the league up is it?  Plus we're a relegated team with a large budget in comparison with our competitors so should we expect to be higher?

I would say yes, except that we've had a major turnaround of playing staff.  This fact for me is enough to allow Saunders some more of our patience.

[River Don]

It's not hard to understand. Best start to a season because we have the most points after so many games. Regardless of what league were in, in those 10 years we've played in the conference, league 1, championship.
And this season we've started better.
It doesn't need a big analysis it's a simple fact.

Not quite right.

2002/03 after 9 we had won 6 and drawn 2 - 20 points (Conference)
2004/05 after 9 we had won 4 and drawn 2 - 14 points (League 1 - equalling this season)

Best start since 2004/05 still isn't a bad boast.  Except we are notorious bad starters so in the first 9 games we haven't set ourselves much of a mark to beat.  11th place 9 games in is hardly tearing the league up is it?  Plus we're a relegated team with a large budget in comparison with our competitors so should we expect to be higher?

I would say yes, except that we've had a major turnaround of playing staff.  This fact for me is enough to allow Saunders some more of our patience.

With regard to the league position, we do have a game in hand remember.

The point about the budget isn't quite right, we have had to make a huge adjustment to the relegation. As JR pointed out where parachute payments would be more valid at the 2nd 3rd level. That's why the squad is as small as it is.

[newyankee]

Very well put Fuzzy. I wish these Saunders out people would get off his back. The job he has is bad enough, but he needs the support from everyone. If he fails, and he hasn't yet, then the owners ( not Board), will know and get rid.

     They are paying the bills and think he is doing fine, I do think they could be a little more helpful with money ( not a lot) considering that promotion back to the Championship would bring in over 4 million, within reason you have to speculate to accumulate.

  As it is Saunders is being asked to run a race against Usaine Bolt with his legs tied together.  Even with both feet he wouldn't win, but he is being held back and therefore paying the price with his detractors.
   
             I think some would not be satisfied even if we won promotion as he is not an Irishman from Wolverhampton. His days are gone, will we have this with every manager in the future?

[River Don]

Very well put Fuzzy. I wish these Saunders out people would get off his back. The job he has is bad enough, but he needs the support from everyone. If he fails, and he hasn't yet, then the owners ( not Board), will know and get rid.

     They are paying the bills and think he is doing fine, I do think they could be a little more helpful with money ( not a lot) considering that promotion back to the Championship would bring in over 4 million, within reason you have to speculate to accumulate.

  As it is Saunders is being asked to run a race against Usaine Bolt with his legs tied together.  Even with both feet he wouldn't win, but he is being held back and therefore paying the price with his detractors.
   
             I think some would not be satisfied even if we won promotion as he is not an Irishman from Wolverhampton. His days are gone, will we have this with every manager in the future?

For me the frustration is with what has happened to the footballing philosophy we had and Saunders claimed he would preserve?

If you look at Swansea, they have had a strategy that goes beyond individual managers. They have a commitment to the style of football they play and they only appoint players and managers who buy into it and they've reaped the rewards.

[wilts rover]

Tactically clueless! Sick to the backteeth of watching hoofball every game from a team that has no leadership.  Its been like it ever since he tookover, and if the club want to get the crowds back something has got to happen soon.

I go because I have got a season ticket but everyone I know who used to go to games no longer go as often because of all the shite that is being served up every week.

You only been a fan for the past 2 seasons then? You dont remember McCammon (and Price) being stuck out on the left wing waiting for a hoof from Hird or Mills? Or is that different to a long ball to Brown?

[FuzzyDuck]

Totally agree River Don

Last night I heard the commentators moaning about Jones always clearing long.  They suggested he wasn't capable of the 30-40 yard pass but questioned why he didn't play the odd 10-yarder to the midfield.  "

"Mind You" they said.  "The midfield always seem to be running away from him when he gets the ball"

   They do this because they know its going.  I agree that we should be looking to play through the midfield (we're not which could be why M Woods is so ineffective) .  I think its training ground stuff - if we don't practice going through midfield, we won't do it in games.

Swansea have been a fine example for years.  We were also right up there with them in terms of style.  Personally, I think JR has completely undervalued what we had.  Sack SOD / Keep SOD  - that argument has been done timeover but chuck out the football style?

[Wellred]

Did I imagine Matt Mills always hoofing the ball out to the left wing?
The same hoofing it forward by Sam Hird?
My memory must be playing up. Please tell me I'm not imagining it.

[FuzzyDuck]

It happened Wellred - Its just that that wasn't the only string to the bow.  At least a passing game was an option in those days.  These days it doesn't seem to be

[nice one rovers]

O.P. No Dean should not be sacked, he is the right manager for us for this league.

On another point though, we were warned by Wrexham fans when he came to keep an eye on his maths, he said last night on "Player" that if we win this Saturday, that we'll be in the top 4 or 5. By my estimate, if no other teams play on Saturday, the best we could be is the top 7 to 10. So, don't sack him, but don't buy a used car from him either.

[dickos1]

Fuzzy,
Thanks for that, it was our best start since we got back into the league up until yesterday. Yesterday cocked that up

[mjdgreg]

2 home wins from 1st Jan to 2nd October this year may well be our worst performance ever over the same timespan in our history. You don't do well as a team just relying on away performances. It's the other way around.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Variety is the spice of life and it is noticeable there is a lack of competence  at times when trying to shift the ball through midfield due to

1. Lack of movement from midfield (as a whole)
2. Movement there but ball not played early enough and chance goes.
3. On occasion when ball is played early control is poor leaving only option to play it back or to keeper (doesn't help when the midfield recipient has one foot to control it and to pass it)

There were occasions last night early in second half when the ball was moved a lot quicker and I thought we were making some in roads.

What we don't want to see is a midfielder take it off a defender toes to play a square ball to a full back, even Jones and McCombe can do that.

What we want to see is Harper receive the ball and have options to left or right and that means the likes of Bennett, Cotterill and Syers need to be offering themselves before Harper receives the ball and, do it all again bringing Brown and Hume in to play as we move the ball forward with one or the other full backs in support as an outlet.

Practice, Practice, Practice. 

[the vicar]

It is our own fans that are the trouble just look at it, it has gone on for some years now, the players are afraid to make a mistake for getting the idiot fans on their backs then they make more mistakes and then the "fans" start to boo them, but away, the fans get fully behind them and they play with freedom and unafraid - simple as!  They play with a smile on their faces.  The quicker the idiots get that into their thick skulls, the better the team will perform! 

[DonnyBazR0ver]

It is our own fans that are the trouble just look at it, it has gone on for some years now, the players are afraid to make a mistake for getting the idiot fans on their backs then they make more mistakes and then the "fans" start to boo them, but away, the fans get fully behind them and they play with freedom and unafraid - simple as!  They play with a smile on their faces.  The quicker the idiots get that into their thick skulls, the better the team will perform!

It's a fair point but the players don't always help themselves when from the off, there seems to be more hoof than craft. The reason the ref blew for about 10 fouls in the fist 6 mins last night is because the ball was up in the air so much inducing aerial challenges.

It's like WWI warfare where we chuck a few bombs at each other before advancing the ball players in to enemy territory.

[wilts rover]

2 home wins from 1st Jan to 2nd October this year may well be our worst performance ever over the same timespan in our history. You don't do well as a team just relying on away performances. It's the other way around.

Oh great statto I should edit that post rather quickly if I were you. Either that or check the results for the previous season under the old manager, I forget his name now, but there was a little bit of debate at the time over the series of results..... I believe they are on the internet somewhere...

....how long have you been a Rovers fan again?