Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Red Rover on August 22, 2012, 09:01:56 am
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So 20 mins left in the game last night, we are crying out for a bit more of creativity going forward, desperate for a goal against ten men, he brings Woods off for...errrmm....Harper?! Was that a message do you think? Why only bring Copps on with a couple of minutes left? I can see that Cotterill and Bennett have been playing well so there is currently no place for Copps, but surely he is that bit of class you need with 20 mins to go? :s
Is it Saunders saying he isnt needed, or is it him trying to wrap him up so Hull don't get to see him pull up trees before the end of the window?
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Cotterill and Bennett were doing OK, why bring them off? M Woods was tiring, it was a like for like substitution, you`re trying to read to much into things, having said that, anyone that thinks Copps will still be a Rovers player come the end of the transfer window is deluded, we need him off the wage bill to strengthen the squad, the trouble is we`ve told every man and his dog, Hull will wait until the last moment and put in a ridiculously low bid for him, then we`ll have no choice but to let him go on the cheap!
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Saunders has gone on record as saying he has 3 or 4 players lined up if Coppinger leaves, maybe he can see that although our 1st 11 looks strong we have very little in back up & doesn't want to risk Copps getting an injury that would jeapodise a move & leave us short?
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This is no way to treat a very loyal and gifted player at the end of a long and succesfull career at Doncaster.
And guess what if we are lucky enough to go up we will have to go in the market for players with Coppingers ability in twelve months time.
The mind boggles or will we get a player cheap from a fire sale dont bet on it
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It's not about sentiment it's about results. Our two wingers have been superb so far, can't fault Saunders there. Harper also made a good impact in midfield last night. Saunders got it right, that may annoy some of you, but he did.
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So 20 mins left in the game last night, we are crying out for a bit more of creativity going forward, desperate for a goal against ten men, he brings Woods off for...errrmm....Harper?!
Not that I'm convinced he entirely knows what he's doing, but maybe Saunders saw something that the average fan didn't.
I'm reminded of the time last season when Mancini, with City needing a goal, brought Nigel de Jong on and took off the more creative Nasri. Most fans thought he had lost the plot, however, most coaches thought it was a shrewd move, as it freed up Toure to get forward more. They won. Toure scored twice.
The average fan doesn't read the game like someone who has been in the game for 20+ years. Maybe he knew what he was doing.
Maybe.
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So 20 mins left in the game last night, we are crying out for a bit more of creativity going forward, desperate for a goal against ten men, he brings Woods off for...errrmm....Harper?!
Wasn't it Harper who ran the ball through for Brown to score, albeit the ball taking the slightest of touches off Syers? IMO not a bad decision by Saunders to bring him on if it meant us getting the winner.
As much as Copp's is a legend for the club, it does seem that we've got more than satisfactory replacements in the form of Bennett and Cotterill, so if his release will allow 3-4 more coming in, and maybe even give Copp's a decent final payday then it suits all parties.
RTID
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Coppinger is a player like anybody else and has no divine right to be in the side...What is it with some of you?? You think the guy is some sort of God he has done next to nothing in the last 18 months..okay he has been here a few years but in all that time weve never been offered a lot of money for him..He is just the same as any other footballer..Pay him a large wedge and he would be gone..
The bottom line is he is very talented but doesn't work anywhere near hard enough and has too many poor games in ratio to the good ones these days...The sooner he is off our wage bill the better,Saunders has already said he can bring 3 or 4 in with the money if it happens..And if he has to be wrapped up in cotton wool for a couple of weeks to make that happen so be it and if he doesn't like it...tough...
At the risk of getting avalanched with angry Coppinger fans...it's time he was gone... :evil: :evil:
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Also, if two of the three players on the VSC banner play for other clubs, they would have NO CHOICE but to change it... would they?! ;)
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How many times have we heard this summer if I sell a player I can bring 3 or 4 in and that never happens lets hope when copps goes he actually backs up what he says with some players
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Cotterill and Bennett were doing OK, why bring them off? M Woods was tiring, it was a like for like substitution, you`re trying to read to much into things, having said that, anyone that thinks Copps will still be a Rovers player come the end of the transfer window is deluded, we need him off the wage bill to strengthen the squad, the trouble is we`ve told every man and his dog, Hull will wait until the last moment and put in a ridiculously low bid for him, then we`ll have no choice but to let him go on the cheap!
It wasn't a matter of taking Cotterill or Bennett off, I didn't say that...keep them on. Take Woods off who was goosed and bring an attacking threat in Copps on. Why bring a more defensive player on?
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I'd love Coppinger to stay - but if the reality is if he has to go for us to sign Weaver and some bodies to sit on the bench, then he has to move on. There's no point having him playing every match and getting injured.
I'm dreading the first injury, we're very light on cover at the moment, we've only got one additional defender fit at the moment.
I imagine the substitution tactics are 'swap the guy who is most knackered' at the moment.
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I'd love Coppinger to stay - but if the reality is he has to go for us to sign Weaver and some bodies to sit on the bench, then he has to move on. There's no point having him playing every
I'm dreading the first injury, we're very light on cover at the moment, we've only got one additional defender fit at the moment.
I imagine the substitution tactics are 'swap the guy who is most knackered' at the moment.
Martis will be back soon, you mark my words....
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It wasn't a matter of taking Cotterill or Bennett off, I didn't say that...keep them on. Take Woods off who was goosed and bring an attacking threat in Copps on. Why bring a more defensive player on?
We had controlled the midfield from the first minute to the middle of the second half. Woods's performance fell off a cliff from about 60 minutes onwards and Bury were starting to control the middle of the park, even with ten men. We COULD have taken Woods off and put on a more attacking player. That would have a been a big gamble, and risked losing our shape for the rest of the game. Instead, we kept the shape that had put us entirely in control of the game. We regained control of central midfield and it was from that avenue that the winner came.
Simple game really...
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Better doing it that way than bringing on two defenders with 5 minutes to go don't you think? ;) ;)
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Coppinger is a player like anybody else and has no divine right to be in the side...What is it with some of you?? You think the guy is some sort of God he has done next to nothing in the last 18 months..okay he has been here a few years but in all that time weve never been offered a lot of money for him..He is just the same as any other footballer..Pay him a large wedge and he would be gone..
The bottom line is he is very talented but doesn't work anywhere near hard enough and has too many poor games in ratio to the good ones these days...The sooner he is off our wage bill the better,Saunders has already said he can bring 3 or 4 in with the money if it happens..And if he has to be wrapped up in cotton wool for a couple of weeks to make that happen so be it and if he doesn't like it...tough...
At the risk of getting avalanched with angry Coppinger fans...it's time he was gone... :evil: :evil:
Here!! Here!! He has not been trying for some time now Look at reading Away last season
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We cant compramise a promising season for loyalty to one player. Depth is number 1 issue. Its not like we would be screwing him over, its a step back up for him prob on more money. I know he is settled here but thats what footballers do
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Better doing it that way than bringing on two defenders with 5 minutes to go don't you think? ;) ;)
We don't have 2 defenders to bring on :)
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Not nice to leave him on the bench but if it looks like he's going and we're in the middle of building a new squad ... well, I can't see any other way. If he leaves, he won't be there to save us with 20 minutes left. Saunders needs to know who his danger men for the season are.
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We won, Saunders therefore made the right decision.
My God, let's give the guy a break, 3 wins out of 3.
This is a results business.
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I wondered if that substitution close to the end was to let Browny get an ovation for his winning goal and give the fans chance to cheer Copps on to the field one last time...
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Not nice to leave him on the bench but if it looks like he's going and we're in the middle of building a new squad ... well, I can't see any other way. If he leaves, he won't be there to save us with 20 minutes left. Saunders needs to know who his danger men for the season are.
Thats possible as is Copps not convincing Saunders enough to be in the first 11 right now, and if he was playing below par it would lessen the chance of him being sold. He could be carrying a minor injury or is vulnerable and so best on the bench till we need him and so he's more attractive for sale. Who knows...
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Also, if two of the three players on the VSC banner play for other clubs, they would have NO CHOICE but to change it... would they?! ;)
Find me a couple of extra hours in the day and I will do it!!!
Seriously, I'm just wanting access to a few nice pics of the new players in the ir new shiny Rovers kits. Wont be too much longer.
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Also, if two of the three players on the VSC banner play for other clubs, they would have NO CHOICE but to change it... would they?! ;)
Find me a couple of extra hours in the day and I will do it!!!
Seriously, I'm just wanting access to a few nice pics of the new players in the ir new shiny Rovers kits. Wont be too much longer.
... Will be if it's gonna be Blake ;)
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It wasn't a matter of taking Cotterill or Bennett off, I didn't say that...keep them on. Take Woods off who was goosed and bring an attacking threat in Copps on. Why bring a more defensive player on?
We had controlled the midfield from the first minute to the middle of the second half. Woods's performance fell off a cliff from about 60 minutes onwards and Bury were starting to control the middle of the park, even with ten men. We COULD have taken Woods off and put on a more attacking player. That would have a been a big gamble, and risked losing our shape for the rest of the game. Instead, we kept the shape that had put us entirely in control of the game. We regained control of central midfield and it was from that avenue that the winner came.
Simple game really...
Thank you, saved me the time explaining
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http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/barnsley/barnsley-hill-eyes-up-rovers-winger-1-4856067
Barnsley now keen on Coppinger
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http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/barnsley/barnsley-hill-eyes-up-rovers-winger-1-4856067
Barnsley now keen on Coppinger
I can`t see how they can afford his wages, never mind a fee!
But at least it might give Hull the kick up the arse to make a move!
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http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/barnsley/barnsley-hill-eyes-up-rovers-winger-1-4856067
Barnsley now keen on Coppinger
They are even more skint than us! Besides, I can't see he'd want to go to a club that will be in League 1 next season.
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http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/barnsley/barnsley-hill-eyes-up-rovers-winger-1-4856067
Barnsley now keen on Coppinger
Makes you wonder if he went how he'd react when his contract turns out to be a series of crude pictograms scrawled on bark.
If he did sign, maybe they'd knock a hole in that little wall rather than chuck him over it though.
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I wouldn't say they're skint they've living within their means. Set to announce a profit for the 11/12 season according to the "tarn" lads at work. Didn't they bid 400k for a player in the summer and he turned them down, they also sold Butterfield for over a million so they could still have a bit to spend
I would have thought that Hull would offer him the better salary though, lets see what JR says.
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I read the situation as Copps is leaving, Deano is trying to build a team and can't rely on a player who probably won't be here in a couple of weeks. It isn't being disrespectful to Copps just realistic in regards the situation we are in and we are winning.
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I was about to say the same thing. Saunders expected Copps to be gone before the Walsall game and so he prepared the team as if he wasn't going to be here. That, to me, is sensible management. There is then the old adage of don't change a winning team. Could we blame Saunders for that as well? I don't think so. He is not being disrespectful, just practical.
We were discussing Copps last night and we were saying that, as much as we'd love him to stay on, his wage is blocking the club moving to add the strength in depth that we will undoubtedly need as we move through the season. A simple one being the addition of Weaver as goalkeeper. Last nights Jekyll and Hyde performnace from Woods should pay testament to that!
It's a rock and a hard place right now. But for the longer term good of the club, perhaps he does need to move on? And I never thought I would EVER say that of him!
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I was about to say the same thing. Saunders expected Copps to be gone before the Walsall game and so he prepared the team as if he wasn't going to be here. That, to me, is sensible management. There is then the old adage of don't change a winning team. Could we blame Saunders for that as well? I don't think so. He is not being disrespectful, just practical.
We were discussing Copps last night and we were saying that, as much as we'd love him to stay on, his wage is blocking the club moving to add the strength in depth that we will undoubtedly need as we move through the season. A simple one being the addition of Weaver as goalkeeper. Last nights Jekyll and Hyde performnace from Woods should pay testament to that!
It's a rock and a hard place right now. But for the longer term good of the club, perhaps he does need to move on? And I never thought I would EVER say that of him!
This is why it confuses me that Saunders keeps saying he still wants Coppinger to stay. Surely he'd rather build a proper squad and be able to fill the bench than have Coppinger hanging around on huge wages.
Copps is a legend, but in terms of building a side that could see us through a season of over 50 games, surely it makes more sense to offload him and bring in 3 or 4 than keep him and add nobody. Assuming they are the only two options available to him.
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Copps can only go when someone offers him a new post, be that Hull, Ipswich, Forest or A.N.Other, so thats when he will be "Off Loaded", when someone follows up interest with some sort of "Bid". I think everone and his dog realises copps will go, and everyone and his dog should also realise it wont be until that point that DS can bring others in. The "Ball" is in some other clubs court, i am afraid.
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not sure why he dosent put him up front?
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To be honest i think a grudge has been held by Saunders since the end of last season,because of Coppinger coming out publicly about ''The Experiment'' not working,i don't think it went down well with him,no inside knowledge just my opinion.
Let's be honest he is a typical winger,an outstanding performance here and there,then the rest five or six out of ten performances,i just think Coppinger is a bit distracted by the attentions of other teams,i personally don't think he enjoys playing for Saunders,i think both parties are ready for a parting of ways,we've had his best years,maybe he needs a new start,and in the long run would probably benefit us if we can bring in two or three quality signings to bulk up the squad,i've enjoyed watching him play over the years,but maybe it's time for a change,he owes us nothing for what we paid for him,so good luck to him if he does go :scarf:
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I don't believe for one minute that Deano holds a grudge against Copps and he isn't going to say I want Copps to leave either with him being a fans favourite given the amount of fans calling for his head since he got the job
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I just don't see how.copps at this moment gets in our team.
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Me neither BFYP!
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Sorry Copps or Cotterill I know which one I would put in,apart from the goal, he does not provide the guile or crossing ability of player half Copps ability.
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Sorry Copps or Cotterill I know which one I would put in,apart from the goal, he does not provide the guile or crossing ability of player half Copps ability.
You're probably right but if / when Copps goes we'll need a ready and fit player to help run midfield. Cotts is doing just fine and his relationship with Syers looks pretty strong and thats vital if they're going to give Bennett freedom.
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Cotterill put some cracking crosses in last night. Coppinger also is good at many things but he certainly is not good at crossing. Bin the sentiment, right now Cotterill is the better player for the team.
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'Coppinger certainly is not good at crossing'.
Strange, I seem to remember him setting up several goals last season with some fine crosses into the box. He can definitely cross a ball well.
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Mixed feelings here.
Saunders is caught between a rock and a hard place. Copps no doubt in an ideal world would not want to go and I'm sure Saunders DOES want him to stay.
I thought last night as many of you have said already, Copps was the ideal player to come on once we'd gone 2 up, as he'd use his guile and skill to hold the ball up in their half. Much as he did in the 5 mins he had.
The finances dictate otherwise. What are the options
* Copps goes in to the office and asks to have the remainder of his contract ripped up and he'll take a pay cut.
* Much like Brian Stock, he stays on the money he's on until he can move for less wages? (I'm sure he will have to take a pay cut wherever he goes)
* Saunders uses the players that are likely to remain for the rest of the season and uses Copps only as a last resort?
* Saunders plays him from the off, depriving A N Other of a place?
Not easy being a manager is it?
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Totally outraged if Radio Sheffield true...
They want him on LOAN!
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Radio Sheffield are saying Barnsley want him on loan, that does n't help us much, first injury he gets and he's back with us and still on the wage bill
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Won't they be paying him though (at least in part) if that's the actual deal?
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Put him up front and wait until we get a permanent deal
Brown and Copps up front murder this league
Totally short sighted and helping one of our hated rivals
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Barnsley would pay us a lump some up front, the loan fee. If that's enough to help Saunders sign more players then hey ho.
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Barnsley FC cannot pay the wages, players want/expect for playing in the championship, so they are taking troubled players with a history of injury, bad attitude, rotten discipline, or just players other championship teams don't want to take risks on, giving them one last chance to prove them self's, For Coppinger to be even considering our approach i'd say very little interest as come from other clubs in our league, and this could be his only option, BFC will not be willing to pay for a player who will only be willing to sign a year deal, and not many players will be willing to sign on for longer, on the wages we'll be offering, that's why 4 of our summer signings are only on year contracts. :scarf:
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Why play a player if he is not going to be there for the season or at least until the January transfer window opens. If after this transfer window closes and he is still here then play him - otherwise build a team with those that will be here for most if not all of this season
COYR
:scarf:
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Has anyone in Championship ever watched him cos I tell you what if I was a manger he would be my first signing outstanding player!
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How much would you pay Norfolk?
(I Love him to bits and wish he would take a cut in wages and possibly have a bonus written in should we get promoted)
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Going Barnsley on loan tomorrow. Gutted. Not them bas**rds James!
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Comment from a Barnsley fan......
Me neither. Good player but also a dirty horrible *******. Do we want players like him in our side
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I wonder if it was the same one that called Sharp a dirty horrible bas**rd with no reasoning to back it up.
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They better be paying all of his wages other wise there is no point.
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It's not about sentiment it's about results. Our two wingers have been superb so far, can't fault Saunders there. Harper also made a good impact in midfield last night. Saunders got it right, that may annoy some of you, but he did.
Sorry I don't agree with you Andy. Decent clubs always find room for sentiment for exceptional players.........Copps is and has been one of these.
There has to be a way around this rather than putting him out on loan to our 6 fingered friends up the A635. Shakell ring any bells here ?
If we shed all our 'names' we could lose some 500-1000 off our home gates costing between £5-10k per. week and the chance to get back into the big boys league where more monies will be available to us once again.........am I missing something fundamental here ?
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Copps has cemented his place as a Rovers legend. His commitment to this club has been exemplary. His zenith was under O'Drissy and arguably his best link up was with Wellens. Those 2 were telepathic and tormented defenders down the right. Things have moved on. Me, among many, lament the passing of the squad that achieved so much and punched above it's weight for a laudable amount of time. By the same token I was slow to recognise the passing of the O'Drissy era and the passing game that won us the accolade, Arsenal o' the North. But passed it has. Copps needs a move back to the championship, to a passing club and to maximise his potential in what is the twilight of his career in my view. As to the now I cannot fault Saunders. It's pretty well documented on here I'm one of his fierciest opponents but, whilst still early days, the boy done good so far as they say in footballing parlance. It's not what I've grown used to, the balls tend to miss out the midfield, the passing we were once renowned for is no longer but we're a division lower and have to operate under stricter conditions both financially and realistically. Though I didnt make the Walsall game despite my best efforts, we got a result. Against Bury I enjoyed what I saw. It entertained me and we certainly looked capable of scoring going forward. I thought Bury were better in midfield and would have got a point save the sending off. In general, we had the better, more creative players. I hope it continues and can't see why it shouldn't. Hull should be a good test next Tues if they put out a competitive side, to see how we compare against a championship side. At the end of the day though, we're Div 1 and need to concentrate on competing in this division before worrying about the higher tier.
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We are all assuming that Copps wants to leave, he doesn't have to, he can sit and run his contract down until he gets his benefit match/season
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OK I'll correct that one if he goes on loan this season he still on the books for his benefit season
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To be fair if he was more consistent he would probably have left us years ago
great player but replaceable in my opinion
as i keep saying we need to transfer him to someone else so we can get more strength in depth
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OK I'll correct that one if he goes on loan this season he still on the books for his benefit season
Nothing to do with him......If this has been engineered by club needs to say that!
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Copps made it clear in interviews he wants to leave...
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It's not what I've grown used to, the balls tend to miss out the midfield
Remind how the two goals came about last night. The first one in particular. Had that been a move involving Stock, Oster, Coppinger and Sharp under O'Driscoll, there would have been people on this forum rushed into hospital for treatment for dehydration having glopped off to excess.
Early days yet, but one thing is apparent. We certainly get the ball (and players) into the six yard box more frequently and dangerously than was typically the case under O'Driscoll.
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I could have sworn we won the other night, well done Dean Saunders & the lads.
We can't afford Copps ( unfortunally ) that's not Dean Saunders fault, maybe people should have ago at the 2,000 fans that have ditched the club after 1 relegation in 15 years