CorBIN LADEN with the problem of accepting "reality" ?

[selby]

  I like the way you add up all the parties votes to get a majority for them that never voted Tory in the election and automatically assume none would have voted for Brexit. and still will not accept the referendum vote which was a straight yes no vote on Brexit and blame all them that didn't vote.
  Hilarious, poor losers or what? and still looking at the systems and trying to change it, brilliant.
  Like banging your heads against a brick wall.
  I can't wait until you see the new constituency boundaries in London and the South East that will be put in place before the next general election.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby.

You need to practice your reading.

I didn't say anything about what individual voters believe.

It is an established fact that in 2019, a majority of voters voted for parties whose policy was either to cancel Brexit or to hold a second referendum.

That's all I said.

[i_ateallthepies]

More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.

Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!

So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.

Not changing it into something else at all, hound.  Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You can check for yourself. Among major parties, these supported Brexit

Tory
BP
UKIP
DUP
UUP
Total vote share: 46.8%


These wanted to cancel Brexit or have a second ref.

Lab
LD
SNP
PC
Green
Sinn Fein
SDLP
Alliance
Total vote share 52.3%

[drfchound]

More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.

Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!

So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.

Not changing it into something else at all, hound.  Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.

Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.

[Bentley Bullet]

Yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but...........

[Welling Rover]

EFD


Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!


Can you tell me when a Labour government had more votes than the total of votes for other parties ?

[Janso]

EFD


Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!


Can you tell me when a Labour government had more votes than the total of votes for other parties ?

I think this just illustrates further that our electoral system isn't really fit for purpose.

[drfchound]

I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.

[Welling Rover]

Possibly Janso but can you see a governing Tory or Labour party voting to change to some form of proportional representation leading to a probable outcome of coalition governments.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.

I've repeatedly commented on how unjust it was that Blair got a 191 seat majority with 43% of the vote. It is deeply undemocratic, and gave Blair effectively unfettered power. And we know where that led.

[EasyforDennis]

More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.

Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!

So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.

Not changing it into something else at all, hound.  Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.

Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.

You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.

How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?

[drfchound]

More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.

Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!

So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.

Not changing it into something else at all, hound.  Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.

Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.

You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.

How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?

You keep expanding on the original post.

[Bentley Bullet]

More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.

Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!

So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.

Not changing it into something else at all, hound.  Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.

Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.

You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.

How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?

It's a false statement!

[keith79]

Hound.

Several things can be true simultaneously.

In the 2019 election:
1) More people voted Tory than for any other single party.

2) More people voted for left/centre-left parties than voted for right wing parties.

3) More people voted for parties that opposed Brexit than voted for parties that supported Brexit.

Yet here we are. A very right wing Govt and Brexit.

Funny thing, democracy, int it?

Surly 1 and 3 are the same

[EasyforDennis]

More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.

Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!

So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.

Not changing it into something else at all, hound.  Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.

Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.

You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.

How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?

It's a false statement!

So if you take it to the logical conclusion. Most people didn't vote for a Tory government.

[Bentley Bullet]

More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.

When people vote for the man of the match after a football game, for instance, the majority of people will more than likely have a different choice to the player that won it. Therefore you could say that more people voted against the winner. Does that mean the player with the most votes isn't a worthy winner?

[Donnywolf]

I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.

I DID

Caroline Flint now my ex MP of course came to where I worked and I was talking to her as we waited for a third party to arrive - she said can you do me a favour while we wait and I said as long as you do me one

What's that she said - Well I replied please comgratulate Tony Blair on winning the Election and tell him to Govern as long as possible BUT THEN just as he is running out of steam get him to introduce PR and it will be a fairer system for us all - and #makevotesmatter - that last bit didnt exist of course at that time

[Donnywolf]

I have of course triggered this devisive "split" again with what I thought was a simple but valid reply to blackpoolrover

He asked with Blair taking us into an illegal war and Corbyn being suspended why do people still slag off the Tories

(you can see his actual question in Reply #1 above)

I replied though its long that basically and numerically the Tories got x votes + a few more votes on their side whilst lots more people around 4 million I think it is did not vote for them and SO (in my opinion ONLY) they are bound to get slagged off because statistically there are many more people who did not vote for them than did vote for them

My full reply was Reply #9 - and I added a further bit which was shorter in Reply #18So I suppose (having a third and last go) to answer HIS question . The Tories are having pages devoted to slagging them BUT why when Labour have been crap in the past does nobody mention it ?My answer - nearly 4 million people more electors that did not vote for them than actually DID vote for them so there are a lots of miffed people out there lets say from GE 57% * and actually another group that might be miffed but it is impossible to be precise ** (so I wont)* 57% of the Electorate did not vote for the Conservatives but I would say that could be reduced a few % points as votes went to the DUP so call it 55%** Non voters are a group and a massive group who might also be miffed with the Tories with Labour with the Lib Dems. Just about 33% of people did not vote and they may be contributing to the anti Tory posts and protests but they had their chanceTo give perspective here is what happened in Johnsons own Seat

Take Boris Johnson's constituency of Uxbridge and South Ruislip, for example: 23,716 people voted for him in 2017, giving him a majority of 5,034. However, 22,798 voters on the electoral register didn't turn out at all. That means he has a theoretical majority of just 918 over those who didn't vote.Thats a lot of "potential" pent up voter apathy - BUT I use the word "potentially" because (like the man in the Aviva advert) - I dont know - NOBODY knows 

[drfchound]

I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.

I DID

Caroline Flint now my ex MP of course came to where I worked and I was talking to her as we waited for a third party to arrive - she said can you do me a favour while we wait and I said as long as you do me one

What's that she said - Well I replied please comgratulate Tony Blair on winning the Election and tell him to Govern as long as possible BUT THEN just as he is running out of steam get him to introduce PR and it will be a fairer system for us all - and #makevotesmatter - that last bit didnt exist of course at that time

I knew that you would come back with that response mate.
It is something that you totally believe in.
I don't think any others among our Labour fans grumbled though.

[drfchound]

More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.

Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!

So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.

Not changing it into something else at all, hound.  Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.

Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.

You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.

How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?

It's a false statement!

So if you take it to the logical conclusion. Most people didn't vote for a Tory government.

No one was arguing that wasn't true though.
You began the disagreement over the statement that BB made, which was true.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.

I DID

Caroline Flint now my ex MP of course came to where I worked and I was talking to her as we waited for a third party to arrive - she said can you do me a favour while we wait and I said as long as you do me one

What's that she said - Well I replied please comgratulate Tony Blair on winning the Election and tell him to Govern as long as possible BUT THEN just as he is running out of steam get him to introduce PR and it will be a fairer system for us all - and #makevotesmatter - that last bit didnt exist of course at that time

I knew that you would come back with that response mate.
It is something that you totally believe in.
I don't think any others among our Labour fans grumbled though.

I said precisely the same thing at the time and since. I've been a supporter of proper PR for 30 years. Even though I fully accept it would mean Labour would never again rule on its own.

I've said for years that Blair made a historic mistake in not ramming through PR in his first term.

[Donnywolf]

He did - it was probably the last best chance unless all current Opposition Parties "band together" next Election and stand on that premise.

If they win which in theory they should they can then hold a Referendum to test the mood of the nation (even though they would have have a mandate already) - just to absoutely ensure people wanted PR (in some form or another)

Then they could revert to ideologocal type and we would have a Government fit for the people of a modern democracy "forever more" AMEN

[aidanstu]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425

and the brother isn't "much better"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8872537/Piers-Corbyn-announces-hell-drink-against-curfew-rally-arrives-court.html

just imagine if the former was P M now 

Out of curiosity what exactly do you imagine would be happening now if Corbyn was PM?

[drfchound]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425

and the brother isn't "much better"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8872537/Piers-Corbyn-announces-hell-drink-against-curfew-rally-arrives-court.html

just imagine if the former was P M now 

Out of curiosity what exactly do you imagine would be happening now if Corbyn was PM?

Sorry to cut in but I think things would be much the same as they are now.