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Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 10, 2021, 09:24:49 pmThat's Ferguson who said in the first few weeks of the crisis that in an unmitigated outbreak, 60% of the population would catch COVID in a few weeks and 1% of them would die? That one?Only, there's only been one place in the western world where there was a totally unmitigated outbreak. And 0.6% of the population died from COVID in 6 weeks.But yeah, Ferguson is a bullshitter because, reasons...I honestly can't now take you seriously. Not that i ever did. Ferguson is an absolute shit show and should be taken round the back of a disused pub, throttled with a damp tea towel and dumped into the nearest canal. He's an absolute disgrace to humanity. Foot and mouth Mr Ferguson? Yeah, got that one wrong too. Swine flu Mr Ferguson? Wrong again. How he is still anywhere near a position where he can cause further untold damage is beyond me. Probably due to dumbass people like BST in the Tories thinking he's still doing a good job. Reasons? HE IS ALWAYS f**kING WRONG!! BY GIGANTIC MARGINS!! Reason enough?
That's Ferguson who said in the first few weeks of the crisis that in an unmitigated outbreak, 60% of the population would catch COVID in a few weeks and 1% of them would die? That one?Only, there's only been one place in the western world where there was a totally unmitigated outbreak. And 0.6% of the population died from COVID in 6 weeks.But yeah, Ferguson is a bullshitter because, reasons...
Cut the blather and follow the logic.You said explicitly that you don't believe the COVID death numbers. That's fine. But then be man enough to own that opinion. Don't just chuck it in then run away from it. If you have that opinion, you have some uncomfortable facts to explain.Why have there been over 150,000 excess deaths in the UK in the past 18 months? And why did the timing of those deaths tie in with peaks in COVID cases?It's not a question of what you or I want to believe. We aren't children making up some fantasy world. It's about dealing with cold hard facts.
Right. So you're now passing on your previous claim that the figures are lies.Next point. What would have been the consequence of letting the virus loose and not taking the unprecedented steps we did to limit its spread?
And I guess you can substantiate all of this, otherwise you wouldn't waste your time right?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 11, 2021, 11:13:57 amRight. So you're now passing on your previous claim that the figures are lies.Next point. What would have been the consequence of letting the virus loose and not taking the unprecedented steps we did to limit its spread?The figures are inaccurate. The Government have already amended the death figures once, due to inaccuracy and i am inclined to believe that there are more inaccuracies. I have already stated in an earlier post, with explanations, that the tests are not reliable. Both LFD & PCR. Therefore the number of deaths attributed to Covid are unreliable. In addition, anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive Covid test is down on the stats as a Covid death. Bear in mind first of all that a positive Covid test is not proof of Covid. The positive test can be due to an inaccurate result or it can be because the test has detected other viral fragments from a different virus. There is no such thing as a positive Covid test, because there is no definitive test for Covid at the exclusion of all other viruses / bacteria. Secondly, a person can have a positive test in hospital but may have been admitted due to a serious car accident. That person then dies of injuries sustained from the car accident but it is classed as a Covid death because that person tested positive within 28 days of death. Death FOR ANY REASON WITHIN 28 DAYS OF A POSITIVE TEST. May not even be Covid that the test kit has detected. Therefore the death figures attributed to Covid are woefully inaccurate. The excess deaths to some degree could have been caused by the number of people dying in their homes from strokes, falls, heart attacks due to being unnecessarily scared shitless by a media complicit in the deaths of many people who chose to avoid seeking help. A number of deaths were due to people being unable to access treatment due to the NHS becoming the NCS, leaving people to rot with cancer and GP's stepping up to the plate during an unprecedented health crisis by telling everyone to f**k off. The excess death figures aren't disputed but the cause of death for a lot of these deaths clearly is and rightly so.
What's your take on the global Build Back Better and the global use of coercion, bribary and threats over vaccines and particularly vaccine Passports?
so you wont be 'supporting the nurses claim for a pay rise?
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on October 11, 2021, 12:07:56 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 11, 2021, 11:13:57 amRight. So you're now passing on your previous claim that the figures are lies.Next point. What would have been the consequence of letting the virus loose and not taking the unprecedented steps we did to limit its spread?The figures are inaccurate. The Government have already amended the death figures once, due to inaccuracy and i am inclined to believe that there are more inaccuracies. I have already stated in an earlier post, with explanations, that the tests are not reliable. Both LFD & PCR. Therefore the number of deaths attributed to Covid are unreliable. In addition, anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive Covid test is down on the stats as a Covid death. Bear in mind first of all that a positive Covid test is not proof of Covid. The positive test can be due to an inaccurate result or it can be because the test has detected other viral fragments from a different virus. There is no such thing as a positive Covid test, because there is no definitive test for Covid at the exclusion of all other viruses / bacteria. Secondly, a person can have a positive test in hospital but may have been admitted due to a serious car accident. That person then dies of injuries sustained from the car accident but it is classed as a Covid death because that person tested positive within 28 days of death. Death FOR ANY REASON WITHIN 28 DAYS OF A POSITIVE TEST. May not even be Covid that the test kit has detected. Therefore the death figures attributed to Covid are woefully inaccurate. The excess deaths to some degree could have been caused by the number of people dying in their homes from strokes, falls, heart attacks due to being unnecessarily scared shitless by a media complicit in the deaths of many people who chose to avoid seeking help. A number of deaths were due to people being unable to access treatment due to the NHS becoming the NCS, leaving people to rot with cancer and GP's stepping up to the plate during an unprecedented health crisis by telling everyone to f**k off. The excess death figures aren't disputed but the cause of death for a lot of these deaths clearly is and rightly so. Nudga.So:1) You accept that we've had huge amounts of excess deaths during the COVID epidemic.2) You don't accept that these deaths were caused by COVID.3) You are guessing that maybe they have been caused by people being too scared to get treatment because of media reporting.That's useful because we can now set up a hypothesis that is testable against the facts that we know.My hypothesis is this: You are talking b*llocks. The excess deaths were indeed caused by COVID. And here's how you test it.a) If the deaths really are due to COVID, you'd expect a direct correlation between the number of positive tests and the COVID deaths 2-3 weeks later. If the deaths were due to people not seeking treatment, you wouldn't expect that sort of correlation. Because it would take time for people to get scared as each wave grew, and it would take time for people to start feeling secure enough to seek treatment as each wave fell.b) Even more certainly, if the deaths really were due to COVID, you'd expect that link between cases and deaths to start to get de-linked once the effect of vaccinations kicked in. And you'd expect that link to get more and more broken the more people were vaccinated. And you'd expect to be able to time when the breaking of the link should start to happen - about 6-8 weeks after vaccination starts, because it takes a few week for the vaccines to start working, and in cases where they have worked, they then prevent lives being lost a few weeks after that. Conversely, if the excess deaths were due to people being too scared to get treatment, there would be nothing like that clear a breaking of link. Because for the breakage to be that clear would require everyone to be precisely monitoring both the severity of the outbreak and the scale of the vaccination programme. And to factor in exactly the time delays between vaccination, infection prevented and deaths prevented.So...look at the data below. That fires your hypothesis clean out the water. For 6 months, the number of deaths pretty much perfectly stayed at 1 for every 50 positive cases three weeks earlier. Rises and falls matched. Then the vaccination programme started and from about 8 weeks later, that linkage separated. exactly as it should have done if the deaths really were due to COVID infections.I really get that you don't want this to be true, but you are as wrong as it is possible to be. Fortunately for you, people who matter have not listened to the sort of conspiracy bullshit that has infected your thinking on this.
Quote from: Nudga on October 11, 2021, 02:15:48 pmWhat's your take on the global Build Back Better and the global use of coercion, bribary and threats over vaccines and particularly vaccine Passports? You're dong what you've done all the way through this crisis.You start with conspiracy theory b*llocks (deaths aren't due to COVID).That argument in comprehensively demolished by comparing it with established facts.You refuse to accept those facts and move onto the next conspiracy.And on it goes, cycle after cycle after cycle.If you are going to look at that graph I posted, along with the text explaining the background and STILL insist that your belief that deaths were due to something other than COVID (but not have any evidence at all to back up that belief) then you don't have any right to fire off questions to other people. Debate can't operate on a "This is my belief and if there's evidence to counter that I'm just going to ignore it" basis.
Quote from: Nudga on October 11, 2021, 02:15:48 pmWhat's your take on the global Build Back Better and the global use of coercion, bribary and threats over vaccines and particularly vaccine Passports?He won't answer about vaccine passports. He's another thicko who cannot accept that the vaccine doesn't stop viral transmission and as this is the only basis where a vaccine passport might be worth considering, the refusal to acknowledge this renders anybody in this camp thick as pig slurry and not worth entertaining their views.
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on October 11, 2021, 03:41:01 pmQuote from: Nudga on October 11, 2021, 02:15:48 pmWhat's your take on the global Build Back Better and the global use of coercion, bribary and threats over vaccines and particularly vaccine Passports?He won't answer about vaccine passports. He's another thicko who cannot accept that the vaccine doesn't stop viral transmission and as this is the only basis where a vaccine passport might be worth considering, the refusal to acknowledge this renders anybody in this camp thick as pig slurry and not worth entertaining their views. I'm in favour of vaccine passports because1) Vaccinations DO reduce transmission, albeit they don't eliminate it and2) stopping unvaccinated people mingling will reduce the number of people who require hospital attention as we go into an inevitably difficult winter.
Apologies for annoying you Nudga but I'm feeling particularly f**ked off today. All the way through this crisis, there's been people like you and our new contributor here spouting bullshit conspiracies. Every single time they get knocked down, with evidence, you don't stop and think "you know what? Maybe I'm wrong?" You just move onto pushing the next conspiracy. It'd people doing that all over the world that have infected the head of my employee, meaning that I'm short staffed for the next couple of weeks due to other staff potentially being infectious and I'm having to spend a day deciding which customer to piss off by delaying their work. So apologies if I'm not my usual accommodating self.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 11, 2021, 04:19:01 pmApologies for annoying you Nudga but I'm feeling particularly f**ked off today. All the way through this crisis, there's been people like you and our new contributor here spouting bullshit conspiracies. Every single time they get knocked down, with evidence, you don't stop and think "you know what? Maybe I'm wrong?" You just move onto pushing the next conspiracy. It'd people doing that all over the world that have infected the head of my employee, meaning that I'm short staffed for the next couple of weeks due to other staff potentially being infectious and I'm having to spend a day deciding which customer to piss off by delaying their work. So apologies if I'm not my usual accommodating self.GET SOME MORE STAFF THEN!! Tell them to stop testing, don't have the test and trace app and only stay off work if they are ill. Not rocket science. Stop blaming others for your own mismanagement and short sightedness in business matters. It isn't the fault of others or Covid!Everyone knows how the isolation system works. The system puts businesses at a disadvantage and if you adhere to the rules, then you will be put at a disadvantage. For a virus that everyone will be exposed to at some point anyway. Crackers. Ignore all the rules and get on with life. Amazing that some people have not yet worked this out yet. Just say 1 person a day dies of Covid in each of our hospitals. Take DRI for example. It is a large hospital in a large town. If 1 person a day died of Covid in DRI, nobody would bat an eyelid. So if we amplify that and take the number of hospitals in the country. So Leeds, Hull, York, Liverpool Manchester, Lincoln, Bristol, Plymouth, Birmimgham and so on and so forth. Every major town and city has a hospital. I think there are about 1500 hospitals and so if 1 person a day died in each hospital of Covid daily, that would be a daily death figure of 1500 people a day. If 1 person from each town with a hospital died from Covid everyday. It wouldn't really concern many people, despite it being 1500 a day. Because the sheer numbers of people in this country and numbers of hospitals put this into perspective. But if you told them on the tellybox that 1500 people a day were dying, everyone would start shitting themselves because they are being bombarded by what looks like large numbers. People are f**king so stupid it is unreal. They need to get perspective and stop being so easily psychologically manipulated. The likelihood of death is still nearly zero. Yet on average, about 100 people a day are dying and this has been relatively stable for quite some months. Obviously this will increase in the winter months naturally but still not worth any restrictions whatsoever or adhering to restrictions and rules. 100 people dying daily is like 1 person to every 15 hospitals. Maths not good but i think this is right. Not worth worrying about. Get on with your life.
Apologies for annoying you Nudga but I'm feeling particularly f**ked off today. All the way through this crisis, there's been people like you and our new contributor here spouting bullshit conspiracies. Every single time they get knocked down, with evidence, you don't stop and think "you know what? Maybe I'm wrong?" You just move onto pushing the next conspiracy. It'd people doing that all over the world that have infected the head of my employee, meaning that I'm short staffed for the next couple of weeks due to other staff potentially being infectious and I'm having to spend a day deciding which customer to piss off by delaying their work. So apologies if I'm not my usual accommodating self.