Congratualtions Keir Starmer

[Bentley Bullet]

Boris Johnson has lied in the past yes.

Is Keir Starmer a liar Wilts?

Only in the past BB?

Is Boris Johnson a liar BB?

Wilts, of course he's only lied in the past! Do you want me to say he's lied in the future? Are you for real?

Now then, I know this will probably go on the ever increasing list of questions you haven't answered but IS KEIR STARMER A LIAR?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
That capitalised rant is a spectacularly pointless question.

EVERYONE has lied at some point. So by an absolute assessment EVERYONE is a liar.

The question, obviously, is how often someone lies, and over what matters.

Here's one for you. Do you think Keir Starmer lies as frequently, instinctively and over matters of such importance as Boris Johnson?

[Bentley Bullet]

If Labour had a leader who had a career-long record of lying, and had been sacked twice for lying, I'd be appalled. I would leave the party and would not vote for a party led by someone with that record.

But it's alright to vote for a Labour leader if he's an antisemitic, communist, terrorist sympathiser!


If Labour had a senior figure who flagrantly lied on a regular basis, of course I would point it out.

But you'd let him off without even a mention if it was just a one-off, even if it was a whopper! I wonder how many more whoppers he would come out with if his job was to lead the country instead of just protesting against those who do?

There's a common theme with your take on several of the things that we disagree about BB. You have a very fundamentalist black and white approach. People are either saints or devils. You did it over the EU referendum, where you equated flat out lies on issues of objective truth from one side with questionable predictions from the other side. In this case, you want to equate the occasional stumble or dissemble from one person with a career-long record of consistent, deliberate and egregious lying from someone else

Osborne's promise of a punishment budget wasn't a questionable prediction, it was a promise. Cameron never predicted he would resign. He said that he wouldn't.

I don't accept that premise. I think there is a spectrum. There are very few of us who have a perfectly unblemished record of always telling the raw truth. That doesn't make every one of us a compulsive liar.

There are very few of us on this forum who have a perfectly unblemished record of always telling the raw truth regarding all political parties in equal measures.

True, including you, yet you insist on grown-up politics!

[Bentley Bullet]

BB
That capitalised rant is a spectacularly pointless question.

EVERYONE has lied at some point. So by an absolute assessment EVERYONE is a liar.

The question, obviously, is how often someone lies, and over what matters.

Here's one for you. Do you think Keir Starmer lies as frequently, instinctively and over matters of such importance as Boris Johnson?

No, I don't think he does, but if his job was to lead the country instead of just protesting against those who do I believe he would lie far more frequently than he does now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.
Do you think PM Starmer would lie as often and as egregiously over matters where the objective truth is known as Johnson does. And do you think ANY previous PM has lied as blatantly and blithely as Johnson does?

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't know. Previous PM's didn't have social media to deal with as much as Johnson has. It seems nowadays that the PM is followed everywhere he goes and everything he says is on the record. Media lies will also make sure that things he doesn't say will go on record also.

I think it was bad enough when Gordon brown's off the cuff  "bigoted woman" remark was picked up and used by the press in a below the belt attack, but it is much, MUCH worse nowadays.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
I'm not talking about off the cuff remarks seized on by obsessives.

Have you ever known a PM repeatedly and obstinately lie about an easily checked matter of objective truth, like for example whether the Withdrawal Agreement with the EU required customs checks between NI and GB.

I AM a political obsessive and I cannot think of anything that comes remotely close.

[Bentley Bullet]

Strange that BST. You seem to spend half of your life obsessing either on here or searching Twitter for anti-government stories to put on here irrespective of whether they're off the cuff or not.

Have you devoted as much time in your life scathing any other Prime Minister before Boris Johnson in that way?

[BillyStubbsTears]

And off we go into making it personal again BB. I never learn.

[Bentley Bullet]

It is only personal because I am asking YOU a question, just like you have personally asked me questions!

Have you devoted as much time in your life on Twitter searching for anti-government stories on any other Prime Minister before Boris Johnson?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.
I don't search for anti Govt stories. I read about news and current affairs. From a wide range of sources. From the left, centre and right. If they all regularly throw up stories of Johnson's lies, I think there's a conclusion which shouldn't be too hard for you to put together.

I'm laughing out loud at the thought that you genuinely think I subscribe to Dig_up_some_shit_on_Boris.com, you daft t**t.

[Bentley Bullet]

If I didn't think it was strange that someone as politically honest and upstanding as you in your belief that there should be no lies in politics, and yet you failed to make a song and dance of Keir Starmer's whopper about the EU vaccine programme, I would consider myself a daft t**t also.

[selby]

  Stabber is a Quisling.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
You'll recall that Starmer apologised and withdrew his comment.

I'll repeat. Until very recently, politicians who lied egregiously and stuck to that despite evidence were pretty much unknown.

If you can point out to me where Johnson has apologised and withdrawn each time he's been shown to lie, I'll accept that nothing has changed.

[Bentley Bullet]

Who's saying nothing has changed? I'm saying the absolute opposite!

[SydneyRover]

Did he stab his leader in the back when she did a deal with the EU, take her job then sign a worse one?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Who's saying nothing has changed? I'm saying the absolute opposite!

Good. So we are agreed.

We have a PM who lies consistently and instinctively and rarely if ever corrects that. And we have a LotO who has once got a recollection wrong and corrected it immediately.

[Bentley Bullet]

Give over, recollection wrong! If a future Prime Minister fails to recollect his own beliefs then he doesn't deserve to be a future Prime Minister.

[Bentley Bullet]

Do you know BST, I often want to call a truce to our arguments because, despite me being older and therefore obviously wiser than you I often empathize with your views, seeing as I was similar before I matured politically. Then, usually just before I'm about to call a truce, you come out with a post like your last one that makes me think f**k him, let him learn the hard way, like I did.

[SydneyRover]

love your jokes bb

[BillyStubbsTears]

Give over, recollection wrong! If a future Prime Minister fails to recollect his own beliefs then he doesn't deserve to be a future Prime Minister.

Whereas the current PM who has a string of lies to his name that can be seen from space does deserve to be PM. Given that he IS PM and he won the last election. Odd logic.

[Bentley Bullet]

There is no logic to popularity because popularity is not a quality, it is just something or someone that is liked. Like a Harley Davidson motorbike. Like Big Daddy the wrestler. Like Liam Gallagher the 'singer.'

Popularity is the state or condition of being liked, admired, or supported by many people.

Keir ain't.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BB
I'm not talking about off the cuff remarks seized on by obsessives.

Have you ever known a PM repeatedly and obstinately lie about an easily checked matter of objective truth, like for example whether the Withdrawal Agreement with the EU required customs checks between NI and GB.

I AM a political obsessive and I cannot think of anything that comes remotely close.

Has Tony Blair been erased from.history all of a sudden?

[BillyStubbsTears]

And which issue of easily checkable objective truth did Blair lie about?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There's plenty with a quick Google online.  He's seen by ironically mostly labour backers as a historically bad figure. Indeed the only pm to oversee the invasion of another country in most of our lifetimes.  I don't think we can preach that all other prime minister's are perfect at all.

Fwiw I liked Tony Blair mostly and thought he did a reasonably good job.

[belton rover]

I liked Blair too. A lot.
But, thinking about BB’s point about social media then and now, if Blair was prime minister now, I suspect the lies would be stacking up, Johnson-esque.

[SydneyRover]

social media doesn't produce the lies johnson does

[Glyn_Wigley]

I liked Blair too. A lot.
But, thinking about BB’s point about social media then and now, if Blair was prime minister now, I suspect the lies would be stacking up, Johnson-esque.

Haven't they stacked up yet then?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

social media doesn't produce the lies johnson does

Absolutely true.  The platform is just that a platform.  What is true is those platforms give much less hiding place on these things and much more visibility.

[Bentley Bullet]

Cheers Belton. It's good to see The Voice Of Reason getting credit now and again for a very valid, truthful point that's been ignored by the lefties.

If there is one good thing about a Labour party getting into power it is the karma of them getting a kicking every minute of every day on social media and news outlets. I wonder how the handful of lefties would handle the abuse their leader would get on here every day?

Whether that'll be Karma Starmer I don't know, in fact, I'm not sure if I'll see another Labour government in my lifetime.