Should there be a Parliamentary Inquiry into Johnson's handling of covid?

[Bentley Bullet]

What is a fact Billy is the people who vote for a party that attracts support from people like you and your lefty cronies on here are in the minority, and I can't see that changing any time soon.

[Not Now Kato]

No NNK, The only problem I have is with people like you. The supreme court stopped short of saying Johnson had an improper motive for proroguing parliament, nor did it say he lied.

At least we've cleared up the misunderstanding as to the legitimacy of Johnson's absence from some of the COBRA meetings.

I think you should take a trip to Barnard Castle BB as the problem you seem to have is the ability to read what's writ!  here's what I said again....
 
Johnson went to the Queen and told her, illegally, and lying, that he had to prorogue parliament. He was subsequently taken to court and lost!
 
Are you suggesting that he didn't go to the Queen and lie? Did the Supreme Court not rule that Johnson's proroguing of parliament was against the law?  As that is all I said in my sentence above!  A simple yes or no will suffice.
 

 

 

Wasn't it Rees Mogg who actually lied to the Queen?

No, it was Mogg who delivered the lie to the Queen, Johnson simply instructed him on the message, (lie), to be delivered and so lied by proxy.  Johnson apparently apologised  to the Queen subsequently by telephone following the courts ruling, effectively confirming that it was his lie and not Moggs.

[ravenrover]

Agreed, just pointing out that it wasn't Johnson who actually told the Queen the lie got a lacky to do it

[BillyStubbsTears]

So the line from the Tory party on Cash for Curtains has been, "Doesn't matter, the voters aren't interested".

1) Stop and reflect on the morality that exposes. It doesn't matter if we have a PM who has broken the law. All that matters is whether it loses them votes.

2) On which subject - the latest poll published today has the Tory lead over Labour slashed from 10% to 2%. That's 4 out of 5 polls since the end of last week that have seen a big swing away from the Tories.

[drfchound]

Newsflash.

Labour in the verge of astonishing victory.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hilarious Hound.

The grown up point of course is that things happen in politics.

Interestingly though, in that poll, 27% of respondents said they think Johnson can be trusted to tell the truth more than Starmer can.

You do wonder how some people manage to wipe their own arses, don't you?

[drfchound]

Hilarious Hound.

The grown up point of course is that things happen in politics.

Interestingly though, in that poll, 27% of respondents said they think Johnson can be trusted to tell the truth more than Starmer can.

You do wonder how some people manage to wipe their own arses, don't you?

Not really BST.
People are entitled to have their own beliefs and reasons for doing so.
To expand on your comment, have you not considered that some of those polled might not trust Starmer.
It isn’t all as one sided as you want everyone to believe.

PS. I mistakenly thought you had a sense of humour.

[tyke1962]

Hilarious Hound.

The grown up point of course is that things happen in politics.

Interestingly though, in that poll, 27% of respondents said they think Johnson can be trusted to tell the truth more than Starmer can.

You do wonder how some people manage to wipe their own arses, don't you?

Not really BST.
People are entitled to have their own beliefs and reasons for doing so.
To expand on your comment, have you not considered that some of those polled might not trust Starmer.
It isn’t all as one sided as you want everyone to believe.

PS. I mistakenly thought you had a sense of humour.

They'd have good reason not to trust Starmer either , this is a politician who had total disregard for his own party's election manifesto on brexit .

This is a man who got elected on a unify the party ticket and then spends the first 12 months purging the left and bringing back from the dead New Labour architect Mandelson after promising to build on the work of Corbyn .

There's a very low bar set within the opposition it seems .

[tyke1962]

Tyke.
Which Labour policies do you so gutterally object to?

There aren't any to object to as far as I'm aware .

The direction of travel Starmer is taking the party is another matter .

Gig economy unchecked , agencies unchecked , zero hours unchecked .

The overall assessment of our last venture in to New Labour was that it was about more of what it doesn't do which is why voters in the former red wall felt betrayed and taken for granted .

They look at Starmer with his education and million pound house on a New Labour ticket and conclude what is the point .

Perception is 90% of reality .

They voted Tory in huge numbers because Johnson delivered what they voted for in the referendum , it's as simple as that .

Now in my opinion the only way you are going to get them back is through greater prosperity , these towns need better jobs and b@llox to this low hanging fruit of Amazon warehouse distribution centres and call centres .

FFS Billy the names on the tin .... Labour and feck this identity politics shyte right off .

Better jobs , these towns economies grow , standards of living are raised , pride and dignity in the community restored which benefits everyone irrespective of where they are born .

Blair's mob didn't want to know .

Labour might want to refrain from telling everyone what they should think , we've had a belly full of it .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well that was a rather scattergun rant Tyke.

You repeatedly insist that Labour has no policies but you haven't once acknowledged that they are continuing with the broad thrust of the Corbyn/McDonnell economic strategy that was so popular in 2017. What DO you want if that isn't enough?

And you consistently refuse to engage on the key question: how can Labour ever win any election if it "fecks off the shyte" that young, urban left-singers hold dear?

As I've pointed out numerous times, you seem to want a Labour party that specifically caters for only those things that you want. But you refuse to engage with the numbers. People who want specifically what you want (radical economics and conservative, nationalistic social policies) make up only 15-20% of the electorate. You are never, ever going to have the 1970s back again where you were part of a majority. You can either find a way of reaching some sort of accomodation with the younger people who want radical economics but internationalist, socially liberal policies. Or you indulge yourself complaining that it's everyone else's fault, and look forward to a Tory Govt forever.

Here's a question to ponder. Why do you think the Tories are so keen to pour petrol on the Culture War bonfire? Could it be because they know that's the way to get different people on the Left ripping each other's eyes out? And aren't you precisely falling into their trap?

[tyke1962]

Billy we are different people that much is clear , there can't ever be a compromise .

That's fine , you can have the party for me , it's yours .

I won't vote for it but good luck anyway .

[SydneyRover]

Tyke.
Which Labour policies do you so gutterally object to?

There aren't any to object to as far as I'm aware .

The direction of travel Starmer is taking the party is another matter .

Gig economy unchecked , agencies unchecked , zero hours unchecked .

The overall assessment of our last venture in to New Labour was that it was about more of what it doesn't do which is why voters in the former red wall felt betrayed and taken for granted .

They look at Starmer with his education and million pound house on a New Labour ticket and conclude what is the point .

Perception is 90% of reality .

They voted Tory in huge numbers because Johnson delivered what they voted for in the referendum , it's as simple as that .

Now in my opinion the only way you are going to get them back is through greater prosperity , these towns need better jobs and b@llox to this low hanging fruit of Amazon warehouse distribution centres and call centres .

FFS Billy the names on the tin .... Labour and feck this identity politics shyte right off .

Better jobs , these towns economies grow , standards of living are raised , pride and dignity in the community restored which benefits everyone irrespective of where they are born .

Blair's mob didn't want to know .

Labour might want to refrain from telling everyone what they should think , we've had a belly full of it .

It's not like you didn't have plenty of time Tyke your man didn't get up, failed, now you want the party to fail if you can't have your way, not very reasonable.

''They look at Starmer with his education and million pound house on a New Labour ticket and conclude what is the point''

This is quite pathetic really, why shouldn't he accept the rewards if he did the work, aspirational voter, have you forgotten those not everyone wants to live in a two up, two down and outside bog.

Politics will never be 'won' by one side or the other but movement left and right, if everyone thinks as you are showing the UK will stay on the right and have corrupt leaders for a long time to come.

Added, a study showed that when some people get a bit of money together they vote tory to protect it, do you want only people in your party that are strugglers?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke
It's not about MY Labour party. I accept entirely that Labour has to attract BOTH the post-industrial working class and the young, professional city dwellers. If it loses either of those, Labour gets hammered. What I can't understand is why you refuse to see that.

Labour lurched in the direction you want in early 2019. Corbyn finally revealed his nationalist, protectionist Bennite colours and it was a disaster. Labour collapsed from 40% to 18% in the polls in 4 months and won 13% in the EU elections. If you don't accept that, you are pissing in the wind by demanding more of that approach.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Back in the 80’s I was active on the left of the party and the thought of Labour moving to a centre left area filled me with horror. However, what I didn’t realise then but understand now, is that it really didn’t matter what I wanted. It was what the voters wanted that was important. And they told us in ‘83 all too clearly that they didn’t want a socialist government.

I don’t really get the criticism of Tony Blair by some in the Labour Party. He understood that a purely socialist approach would leave the party permanently in opposition. Labour spent the 1980’s fighting itself whilst the voters looked on in bemusement and gave Thatcher their vote time and again. Blair was able to unify the centrists and the left within the party with astonishing success.

A speaker at a Labour Conference some years ago made a very astute point. The UK is, at heart a centre right country. Looking at history it’s instinct is to vote conservative if ever in doubt. Consequently, Labour need to try harder than the Torys to win an election. What it also tells us is that a far left Labour Party will probably never get into power. To win an election Labour needs to tap into the aspirations of the working and middle classes and build policies and manifestos around these. They need to project an optimistic angle whilst holding the Tories to account. Remember the Brexit debates on telly? The Brexit advocates put across a positive message of how the UK could benefit from leaving the EU. The remain supporters basically told us that we’d better not leave as EU membership is as good as it’ll get for some people. Who wants to hear that? Labour need to learn from that and tell people HOW their lives will be better under Labour. So far, they’ve told us nothing and until they do, they’re going to vote for a Tory Government who’ve got the monopoly on positive spin at the moment.

[SydneyRover]

That's fair comment HA, labour can in power if it chooses, restore the NHS and educate the public that this would be better than what is going on atm.

''Starmer will draw a clear distinction between his character and that of Johnson, describing his experience as a lawyer prosecuting MPs for false expenses claims. Labour will also try to forge a link between the cronyism of the distribution of Covid contracts and taxpayers’ cash, which advisers believe is key to making the damaging allegations stick''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/03/keir-starmer-vows-to-clean-up-british-politics-after-tory-sleaze-rows

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The question Sydney is if enough of the country care about Boris vs Starmer. I doubt it.  Many also accept therw is a level of cronyism it's perhaps baked in and less impactful than some think?

I fundamentally dislike it but I also have that persuasion that it exists in all parties (granted id have Boris removed for his financial incompetence).

[SydneyRover]

As I've said previously it's a long haul and other have said governments are voted out rather than in. The Starmer v Johnson is just one battle in many that have to come, labour has to show the nation that more often than not they have run the economy better and they will care for more people than just those with johnson's ph number. Johnson has to show he's serious about levelling up and not just wallpapering over.