Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: silent majority on May 03, 2020, 03:13:18 pm
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If you wish to discuss the Corona virus, either developments or any interesting discussion points, please do so here.
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Apart from football, what one thing are you missing the most?
Of course there are other sports which I miss just as much and normally defines my week, i.e. Sunday afternoon watching formula 1, but the thing I miss the most is not seeing the grandkids.
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Strangely, I don't really miss going to the pub as much as I thought I would, and even more surprising I don't desperately miss the football. I suppose they had become more of a habit than a passion.
I do desperately miss the grandkids and family though.
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I miss extended family. And I feel for the kids not seeing their friends.
I'm with BB about the football. I've been surprised how little I've missed it.
I'm lucky that I get a lot of inspiration from work and I get to travel a lot and have stimulating meetings. I should have been in Alabama next week at a training course for a brilliant new piece of software and I miss both the travel to new places and learning new stuff.
I miss the banter and chewing the fat with mates and especially our kid - video chats just aren't the same.
On the plus side, I'm fitter than I've been for years. I'm on the edge of the danger age and I took this epidemic as a kick up the arse to lose a stone and get serious about fitness training.
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My son, I've not seen him since March and phone calls are no substitute
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I should have been in Belgrade last week participating in a workshop, I was looking forward to to that.
But my son is expecting their first child in 5 days time, that's going to be tough when we won't be able to be there, plus I have no idea when we'll get sight of the newborn.
Tough times.
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Family, goes without saying..
I should have had a business trip to Paris last month and Berlin this month, but they’ve both gone for a burton.
Less important of course, but I am missing the football a bit.
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I miss coaching my kids football team. I've grown close to them all over the years and getting out the grass on weekends is my stress buster. I can empty my head of grown up stuff for a few hours. I miss their parents too, I've realised that I've actually made a lot of really good friendships with them.
This has given me time to reflect on my business, and where I've gone wrong over the last couple of years.
Marketing!
So I'm in the process of creating a new business seperate to woodburning stove installations with a great brand and hopefully a really good social media presence.
I don't want to ever be in the position again where I have to stack shelves a few nights a week whilst trying to keep the business afloat.
It's tough working nights and then having to go back out in the day to graft again.
Most of all, I miss my mum. We have a chat on Zoom while she teaches my daughter to sew.
I can tell its hurting her not being around my kids so I really feel for you guys who have no physical contact with your children/grand children.
Oh, and whatever is discussed on other threads, whatever your views and opinions on anything, and whether you vehemently disagree on topics, don't hold a grudge.
Life is too short.
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We miss our daughter who has two jobs, one at the Hospital and one doing home caring, she refuses to come anywhere near our house for our safety, we have video chats, but it’s not the same, we worry for her everyday working in two environment areas where the virus can spread, although as she points out the caring is probably safe as all her service users are isolating due to their age and conditions, the care support at this moment is the only contact with the outside world these people are getting
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Miss family mainly. Especially as they're many miles away, (Edinburgh & Bolton - yes, I know!), so visits were always very special. Skype helps, but it's no substitute for the real thing.
Other than that I miss walking and fishing. However, to pass the time I can plan my future walks, (easy ones to start with following my knee replacement), using Anquet mapping software; and sort out my tackle for my next fishing adventure, (the last one ended up with me in the river Nidd being held afloat by my inflatable life jacket, with my chest waders full of water - the event that finally forced me into having my knee replaced - not the best of places for it to have given in on me!). In the meantime I'm using Tai Chi to help strengthen my leg ready for when my self isolation ends.
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I miss coaching my kids football team. I've grown close to them all over the years and getting out the grass on weekends is my stress buster. I can empty my head of grown up stuff for a few hours. I miss their parents too, I've realised that I've actually made a lot of really good friendships with them.
This has given me time to reflect on my business, and where I've gone wrong over the last couple of years.
Marketing!
So I'm in the process of creating a new business seperate to woodburning stove installations with a great brand and hopefully a really good social media presence.
I don't want to ever be in the position again where I have to stack shelves a few nights a week whilst trying to keep the business afloat.
It's tough working nights and then having to go back out in the day to graft again.
Most of all, I miss my mum. We have a chat on Zoom while she teaches my daughter to sew.
I can tell its hurting her not being around my kids so I really feel for you guys who have no physical contact with your children/grand children.
Oh, and whatever is discussed on other threads, whatever your views and opinions on anything, and whether you vehemently disagree on topics, don't hold a grudge.
Life is too short.
Don't make your brand name specific. For example if you're selling curtains, don't name the brand Nudgas Curtains. The simple reason is, what if the business moves away from curtains and starts doing raincoats? Then you have to start again building a new brand.
A good example of a businesses that has developed a strong brand only to see the product change is Carphone Warehouse.
The important thing is, the name should be distinctive and memorable.
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On the plus side, I'm fitter than I've been for years. I'm on the edge of the danger age and I took this epidemic as a kick up the arse to lose a stone and get serious about fitness training.
I'm the same, I had got too comfortable, lazy and out of shape. I've gone from being a 36 waist, with a beer gut hanging over my jeans, to a relatively trim 34. The moobs and steadily being replaced with firm pecs. I'm working out in the mornings and cycling daily. I've no idea how much I've lost but it must be more than a stone.
I'm surprised to read many have gone the other way in lockdown and are comfort eating and drinking more. For me it has been the opposite and given me the space and motivation to get in shape.
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Definitely family, and the realisation I may never seen my mum again.
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Definitely family and travelling. I worry I may never see my aunty Chrissie again as she's over ninety and uo in Scotland.
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As above friends, family & travel, I keep busy doing work on the house, a never ending story. I also try to keep up community work and helped assemble some more pollution monitors for the Luftdaten Citizen Science AQ project on the weekend although the installation side has come to a bit of a halt. We have free to air SBS TV with good Euro and Scandi series which we watch.
As a side issue friends of ours arrived on Oz from the UK the night before full quarantine came in but had to isolate for 2 weeks in Airbnb. They came for the arrival of their first grandchild but cannot stay with their daughter and son in law. After 4 weeks they are returning but he has had to be tested as he had a fever on the weekend but got clearance for the flight 4 hours before the flight home tonight.
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Family as were in Cornwall and its the longest time I've not seen anyone. (parents and two sons 18 n 20)
Football not a chance.
Recon clubs will not realise its a habit and weve all just gone cold turkey!
Will loose some forever
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So, when this app is up and running will you be downloading it, or is anyone thinking its a step too far?
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As I've said elsewhere. We HAVE to have something like this to get us out of the crisis.
But this just shows you can't divorce this from politics. Many people will choose not to use it because they don't trust the Govt when it says it won't compromise their personal data.
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I just wonder why they need to release an app that harvests data from your phone, back door snooping. I agree with it in principle, but not if they are gathering data in the background
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What kind of data would we not want to share with the NHS?
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What kind of data would we not want to share with the NHS?
For NHS read government/Dominic Cummings and friends.
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What if NHS data ends up in the US?
US big business taking a slice of the NHS and all records.
Is it on the table?
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Rumour has it Cambridge Anylitica are behind the app
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What kind of data would we not want to share with the NHS?
I'm wondering if I'm missing some unspoken irony here.
Really?
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Two useful links on how the app actually works, and why it ultimately may never work.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-covid-19-tracking-app-contact-tracing
It works using bluetooth. Rarely, do people have bluetooth turned on and transmitting. Most modern phones do not permit bluetooth to be running silently in the background.
It has the first half of your postcode and phone ID.
All other data you give is voluntary. You say if you are feeling unwell - you then go through a series of follow up medical question. A 'risk algorithm' then works out who to warn if you show symptoms of the disease based on who you have been in contact with digitally (very difficult to get this correct using bluetooth apparently, which is not that accurate).
The wider 'manual' element of 'test, track and trace' which is rumoured to be the new government mantra is going to be handled by Serco.
Part of the wider creeping privatisation of healthcare functions (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/04/uk-government-using-crisis-to-transfer-nhs-duties-to-private-sector)
Personally, I won't be using any apps.
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What kind of data would we not want to share with the NHS?
I'm wondering if I'm missing some unspoken irony here.
Really?
Perhaps I'm just less bothered than most, i've never been that bothered by it. I fail to see what would be gained from my data that I wouldnt give up anyway.
Note that doesnt include obvious things like bank information.
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Here’s a thought, and it don’t know if it is possible.
If there is a harmless re-agent which reacts to the coronavirus, and only to the coronavirus, then could it be practical to make an indicator paper.?
The idea is to have a paper or fabric strip embedded with said reagent - which can then be attached to outer clothing - which changes colour if droplets containing the virus land on it. Wearers would get an indication that they had been exposed to the virus, if not actually infected, and then could go for a test.?
Wouldn’t cover all eventualities of course, but it doesn’t collect your data.!
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As much as I agree in principle with an app, this one will not be for me, there is no trust there at all
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As much as I agree in principle with an app, this one will not be for me, there is no trust there at all
Its not collecting any data, so how can your trust be misused?
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
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As I've said elsewhere. We HAVE to have something like this to get us out of the crisis.
But this just shows you can't divorce this from politics. Many people will choose not to use it because they don't trust the Govt when it says it won't compromise their personal data.
Whilst we can't divorce this from politics entirely its certainly possible to at least try. I can't read the other thread on the corona virus because there's just too many people seemingly hell bent on criticising the government at every possible opportunity. Whilst I don't doubt there needs to be a reckoning I'd like to read and discuss other aspects of our current situation rather than wading through one political pointy after another.
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into.
If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into.
If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
Everyone moaning about this app, but I bet the majority are happy to use Facebook, Twitter etc, Amazon. Have you any idea how they use your data?!
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into.
If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
Problem is, many people will be skeptics about the data privacy issues, regardless of any truth (or lack of) in their concerns..
I don’t think that is particularly a political issue either - more a worry over data protection and technology, perhaps due to a general lack of understanding of how such technology works.
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So, when this app is up and running will you be downloading it, or is anyone thinking its a step too far?
There are still loads of people who don’t have a smart phone, my wife is one.
Her phone is so primitive that it runs on gas.
I saw a lady on the news on the IOW this morning saying the same thing.
Even if they want to be included.....they can’t.
I’m not sure why anyone would object to providing part of a postcode to anyone.
Maybe if Mr Starmer had thought of setting this APP up then it would be deemed to be ok.
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So, when this app is up and running will you be downloading it, or is anyone thinking its a step too far?
There are still loads of people who don’t have a smart phone, my wife is one.
Her phone is so primitive that it runs on gas.
I saw a lady on the news on the IOW this morning saying the same thing.
Even if they want to be included.....they can’t.
I’m not sure why anyone would object to providing part of a postcode to anyone.
Maybe if Mr Starmer had thought of setting this APP up then it would be deemed to be ok.
Hound.
As I've said carefully and calmly, the issue is one of trust. Can you truly, honestly blame people for being apprehensive about whether they should just trust the Govt?
Listen, I WANT to be able to do so on something so important. But that's a two way process.
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into.
If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
SM.
NHSX has announced that the data it collects, including that on LOCATIONS will not be destroyed after the track and tracing job is done. It will be kept, anonymised for research purposes. Now, I'm far from an IT expert, but I'm sure I've heard about apparently anonymised data being de-anonymised.
I'm imagining the thoughts of Mrs X who doesn't want Mr X finding out at some point down the line that Mrs X was in close proximity to Mr Y at various times in the crisis, when she'd said she'd been queuing up outside Tesco for 2 hours.
The problem, at core, is not whether anything WILL be done nefariously or carelessly with the data. It is whether people TRUST the Govt not to do so, and to be straight with them that it isn't doing anything else.
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into.
If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
SM.
NHSX has announced that the data it collects, including that on LOCATIONS will not be destroyed after the track and tracing job is done. It will be kept, anonymised for research purposes. Now, I'm far from an IT expert, but I'm sure I've heard about apparently anonymised data being de-anonymised.
I'm imagining the thoughts of Mrs X who doesn't want Mr X finding out at some point down the line that Mrs X was in close proximity to Mr Y at various times in the crisis, when she'd said she'd been queuing up outside Tesco for 2 hours.
The problem, at core, is not whether anything WILL be done nefariously or carelessly with the data. It is whether people TRUST the Govt not to do so, and to be straight with them that it isn't doing anything else.
I get your point BST, however, anyone who has any map app on their phone, I'm pretty sure data is collected the same way.
This is where they are getting all the traffic data from.
I could be wrong, but the likes of Google, Facebook etc use your data in far more intrusive ways than this app will, however people still use them.
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into.
If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
SM.
NHSX has announced that the data it collects, including that on LOCATIONS will not be destroyed after the track and tracing job is done. It will be kept, anonymised for research purposes. Now, I'm far from an IT expert, but I'm sure I've heard about apparently anonymised data being de-anonymised.
I'm imagining the thoughts of Mrs X who doesn't want Mr X finding out at some point down the line that Mrs X was in close proximity to Mr Y at various times in the crisis, when she'd said she'd been queuing up outside Tesco for 2 hours.
The problem, at core, is not whether anything WILL be done nefariously or carelessly with the data. It is whether people TRUST the Govt not to do so, and to be straight with them that it isn't doing anything else.
BST,
You're politicising everything. I also think that generalised location data, which is only ascertained during the track and trace phase and is not GPS style data won't concern anyone, not even in your outlandish example of Mr and Mrs X. When people are contacted to say they've been in close proximity to somebody with the virus nobody is identified. If you don't come into contact then the data held in the app is deleted after 28 days.
So my point still stands, what is it collecting that should bother anyone if there's nothing there to be misused in the first place?
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into.
If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
SM.
NHSX has announced that the data it collects, including that on LOCATIONS will not be destroyed after the track and tracing job is done. It will be kept, anonymised for research purposes. Now, I'm far from an IT expert, but I'm sure I've heard about apparently anonymised data being de-anonymised.
I'm imagining the thoughts of Mrs X who doesn't want Mr X finding out at some point down the line that Mrs X was in close proximity to Mr Y at various times in the crisis, when she'd said she'd been queuing up outside Tesco for 2 hours.
The problem, at core, is not whether anything WILL be done nefariously or carelessly with the data. It is whether people TRUST the Govt not to do so, and to be straight with them that it isn't doing anything else.
I get your point BST, however, anyone who has any map app on their phone, I'm pretty sure data is collected the same way.
This is where they are getting all the traffic data from.
I could be wrong, but the likes of Google, Facebook etc use your data in far more intrusive ways than this app will, however people still use them.
That's exactly right. Which is why the NHS have opted for a different strategy to that proposed by Google and Facebook, those companies store much more than anyone realise and yet I fail to see anybody protesting.
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SM
I'm politicising nothing here. I haven't given my opinion. I'm suggesting what I suspect many other people are going to say. And I suspect the app will get not remotely close to the 80% take up it is reported as needing. Which will be a tragedy.
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RA
I agree. But I'm not talking about people having rational responses. People,a lot of people anyway, will work on gut feeling.
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SM
I'm politicising nothing here. I haven't given my opinion. I'm suggesting what I suspect many other people are going to say. And I suspect the app will get not remotely close to the 80% take up it is reported as needing. Which will be a tragedy.
You need to make the distinction clearer then BST because it certainly looks like you're' expressing an opinion.
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SM
Or you need to read what I write more carefully. Two sides.
Do I trust the Govt to be fair and honest? No if course I don't. This is brought to you by the very people who harvested social media info to identify political ingenues who could be targeted with 2 billion quids worth of Facebook ad lies to tip the 2016 vote. As I was posting back in early March, I very much wanted to get behind the Govt on this crisis. But they have lied repeatedly throughout the past 2 months.
Of course I don't trust them.
2) Do I think there's anything concrete to worry about in this app? Likely not.
3) Will I use it? Probably so on balance.
But I'm not the issue here.
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into.
If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
SM.
NHSX has announced that the data it collects, including that on LOCATIONS will not be destroyed after the track and tracing job is done. It will be kept, anonymised for research purposes. Now, I'm far from an IT expert, but I'm sure I've heard about apparently anonymised data being de-anonymised.
I'm imagining the thoughts of Mrs X who doesn't want Mr X finding out at some point down the line that Mrs X was in close proximity to Mr Y at various times in the crisis, when she'd said she'd been queuing up outside Tesco for 2 hours.
The problem, at core, is not whether anything WILL be done nefariously or carelessly with the data. It is whether people TRUST the Govt not to do so, and to be straight with them that it isn't doing anything else.
I get your point BST, however, anyone who has any map app on their phone, I'm pretty sure data is collected the same way.
This is where they are getting all the traffic data from.
I could be wrong, but the likes of Google, Facebook etc use your data in far more intrusive ways than this app will, however people still use them.
That's exactly right. Which is why the NHS have opted for a different strategy to that proposed by Google and Facebook, those companies store much more than anyone realise and yet I fail to see anybody protesting.
It has take a global pandemic for me and SM to agree on something. :woot:
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As I've said elsewhere. We HAVE to have something like this to get us out of the crisis.
But this just shows you can't divorce this from politics. Many people will choose not to use it because they don't trust the Govt when it says it won't compromise their personal data.
I can't read the other thread on the corona virus because there's just too many people seemingly hell bent on criticising the government at every possible opportunity.
The irony.
That statement has contradicted the whole point of you opening a new thread about keeping politics out of a corona virus debate.
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It does collect data. The first half of your postcode, your phone ID, and any extra data you voluntarily submit. It stores it for 28 days.
OK, let me rephrase that, it doesn't collect any personal data that government, big brother or any other person/body can misuse or pry into.
If somebody is worried over handing over the 1st part of their post code then there is something seriously wrong.
SM.
NHSX has announced that the data it collects, including that on LOCATIONS will not be destroyed after the track and tracing job is done. It will be kept, anonymised for research purposes. Now, I'm far from an IT expert, but I'm sure I've heard about apparently anonymised data being de-anonymised.
I'm imagining the thoughts of Mrs X who doesn't want Mr X finding out at some point down the line that Mrs X was in close proximity to Mr Y at various times in the crisis, when she'd said she'd been queuing up outside Tesco for 2 hours.
The problem, at core, is not whether anything WILL be done nefariously or carelessly with the data. It is whether people TRUST the Govt not to do so, and to be straight with them that it isn't doing anything else.
I get your point BST, however, anyone who has any map app on their phone, I'm pretty sure data is collected the same way.
This is where they are getting all the traffic data from.
I could be wrong, but the likes of Google, Facebook etc use your data in far more intrusive ways than this app will, however people still use them.
Then its not a trade-off, is it? Google can do nefarious things with your data, governments can do nefarious things with your data (and they have in recent times). Two wrongs don't make a right they make two wrongs. You should be careful about your data in all settings. I don't particularly trust any of them to be honest.
Sticking to the topic at hand, there is a key difference. Google and Apple's contact tracing system is based on storing data on people's devices, which was the approach supported by many academics (https://www.ft.com/content/074fa83b-1b95-47ba-86d2-4b71dafe3425), the UK has chosen a different approach to gather all the data in a central database for however long.
I would read this.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/technology-and-innovation/exclusive-wobbly-tracing-app-failed-clinical-safety-and-cyber-security-tests/7027564.article (https://www.hsj.co.uk/technology-and-innovation/exclusive-wobbly-tracing-app-failed-clinical-safety-and-cyber-security-tests/7027564.article)
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Then, I would read this (https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/04/uks-coronavirus-tracing-app-strategy-faces-fresh-questions-over-transparency-and-interoperability/)
He also said the app will iterate — with future versions potentially asking users to share location data. So while the NHSX has maintained that only pseudonymized data will be collected and held centrally — where it could be used for public health “research” purposes — there remains a possibility that data could be linked to individual identities, such as if different pieces of data are combined by state agencies and/or if the centralized store of data is hacked and/or improperly accessed.
Privacy experts have also warned of the risk of ‘mission creep’ down the tracing line. And Gould admitted under committee questioning that once data has been uploaded there will be no way for app users to ask for it to be deleted.
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Then This (https://tech.newstatesman.com/coronavirus/uncertainty-over-who-could-access-nhsx-contact-tracing-app-data-as-pilot-goes-live)
"He was also unable to answer whether employers would be able to gain access to the data under the auspices of ensuring “the health of their employees”. Gould was unable to immediately rule this out."
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As I've said elsewhere. We HAVE to have something like this to get us out of the crisis.
But this just shows you can't divorce this from politics. Many people will choose not to use it because they don't trust the Govt when it says it won't compromise their personal data.
I can't read the other thread on the corona virus because there's just too many people seemingly hell bent on criticising the government at every possible opportunity.
The irony.
That statement has contradicted the whole point of you opening a new thread about keeping politics out of a corona virus debate.
I fail to see the point you're making. All Ive done is explain why I've opened another thread, I see no irony in the point I've made.
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If it was use the app or stay in your house what would people do?
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Strangely I am not finding the actual lockdown as hard as I thought I would. Really not missing football. Enjoying getting out for a walk every day and have found so many great walks from home that I didn’t know existed.
I’ve done things I never did.....done lots of baking, cut my partner’s hair and pretty well! Growing lots of veggies and even going to have a go at making some face masks just in case.
It’s also helped me in terms of losing my Mum (nearly 2 years ago). I was still very emotional about it but now I am just so thankful she isn’t here whilst all this is happening.
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If it was use the app or stay in your house what would people do?
Waiting for our friend to say be pissed off or dead.
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Strangely I am not finding the actual lockdown as hard as I thought I would. Really not missing football. Enjoying getting out for a walk every day and have found so many great walks from home that I didn’t know existed.
I’ve done things I never did.....done lots of baking, cut my partner’s hair and pretty well! Growing lots of veggies and even going to have a go at making some face masks just in case.
It’s also helped me in terms of losing my Mum (nearly 2 years ago). I was still very emotional about it but now I am just so thankful she isn’t here whilst all this is happening.
Much the same feelings for me too.
I am happy with the lockdown to be honest.
I do take my dogs out for a long walk every day so am continuing to do that anyway, no difference there.
I am lucky that there are dozens of footpaths and bridleways where I live.
Sadly my walking football and golf are not available to me but I have redirected my energies into twice a week long distance off-road biking.
I have a mini gym at home and am using that facility every day plus the usual gardening, decorating, fence painting activities.
I have even found out how the washing machine works !!
Like yourself, I am surprised that I am not missing going to the Rovers so much and as I have said before, will be reluctant to go back to watching live football until I can feel safe doing so.
I am really missing not seeing my son and his wife and the grandkids (apart from on FaceTime).
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those over 60 and with vulnerable health conditions will not benefit from the app immediately as they will still have to isolate, they will only benefit later when hopefully the virus has receded,
unless it can show when your in close proximity to a tory voter :)
Forum admin - this is the non-political thread.
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If it was use the app or stay in your house what would people do?
What's that latin phrase? Reductio ad absurdum?
That is not the choice we face. If the app helps, it helps.
But there is no replacement for a well-planned exit strategy, with improved manual testing and tracing of cases, with new public health measures for those businesses that want to open, stringent measures for care homes, a well-equipped and prepared healtcare system.
We need a strategy, not a technological solution posing as a pancea.
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those over 60 and with vulnerable health conditions will not benefit from the app immediately as they will still have to isolate, they will only benefit later when hopefully the virus has receded, unless it can show when your in close proximity to a tory voter :)
Wouldn't it be more beneficial to your phone's battery life, if it was only triggered when a Labour supporter was in close proximity?
Edited by forum admin
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Apart from football, what one thing are you missing the most?
Of course there are other sports which I miss just as much and normally defines my week, i.e. Sunday afternoon watching formula 1, but the thing I miss the most is not seeing the grandkids.
Missing football, now cricket and most of all friends who I haven't seen since the start of lockdown.
On the plus side, I'm catching up with my Rovers stats from years gone by and am keeping busy writing content for the Official Site (Rover of the Day, etc). Watching lots of TV, but keeping away from news channels apart from the lunchtime news once a day!
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Whilst I have reservations my wife is keen on the app. Only problem is when she goes out the phone stops in the house, how many more are like that?
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Loads of people and there are loads more who don’t have a smart phone.
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A smartphone is only as smart as the person using it.
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I welcome this thread I have been getting a bit Fed up of folks falling out over Politics,silly conspiracy theories and the way this thing is dragging on, My Wife is in the most Vulnerable group and she is terrified,I am working from home and we both miss our 2 sons and their families they are all Key workers and they don't come within 20 feet of our house and that's once a week.I just don't see it getting any easier for us ,the Wife will have to stay isolated as will I . we have always been a very tight knit group My wife is constantly concerned about our family as virtually all of those close to us are 'Frontline' .Im frustrated as after nearly 40 years of public service I find myself in a position where I have to be isolated!
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There's no other answer Sprot until this is brought under control, there is no other way, I am in the same position my partner marginally less, we're going out for a walk tomorrow to a small reserve to do some bird watching hopefully there will be few people about, if not we'll come straight home.. I can't see any of the family as even here where the threat is lower a mistake by someone or stupidity can still end in disaster. Stay safe and hang in.
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My heart goes out to you Sproty. Truly. I spoke with my Mum and her husband (who is in a high risk category) at the weekend and they have resigned themselves to a year or more of isolation. It is a horrific situation, and there is nothing that any Govt could have done about that. Like Sydney says, stay safe and hang in.
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This is a wonderfully inspiring story.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/06/world/ireland-native-americans-choctaw-gift-trnd/index.html
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So, it appears we will be lifting some of the lockdown restrictions.
Which one thing would you like to see? What change would you put above others?
It's tricky I know, I'd love to see my kids but that's another two households. But that would be the key for me.
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I'd like to see the family. Perhaps sit in the garden with them while still under social distancing rules.
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I think Family could visit, sit in the Garden, I also think places like Golf Courses and Fishing Lakes could reopen
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Whenever more things are allowed to open, there needs to be a relaxation of movement restrictions at the same time.. pointless opening things if you’re not permitted to go there..
I guess visiting family - being allowed to go into a limited number of other households, but the problem is how do you limit that or police it.?
Tricky one..
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I imagine the government is relying on the public's common sense. Trying to enforce rules to those who simply won't follow them has been proved to be a waste of time. I would bet any reduction in the lockdown rules on Sunday won't make a ha'porth of difference to them, they won't have been abiding by them anyway.
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I also think more people will be breaking the rules this weekend in anticipation of some relaxations.
But that’s a point to discuss elsewhere.
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I imagine the government is relying on the public's common sense. Trying to enforce rules to those who simply won't follow them has been proved to be a waste of time. I would bet any reduction in the lockdown rules on Sunday won't make a ha'porth of difference to them, they won't have been abiding by them anyway.
(https://i.imgur.com/JbUMBct.jpg)
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Reminder - this is the non-political thread.
References to the poor performance of the government and Boris will be deleted, there's another thread for that.
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So, leaving the politics out of this, do the recently announced changes to lockdown rules make a difference for you?
For me it does nothing at all, still working from home and still exercising locally. Still can't see the kids or grand kids, despite my daughters garden being in excess of 7 acres!!
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As far as my work goes, I was working from home from 18 March - in response to the initial recommendations at the time. My furlough started on 4 April and that was due to the financial pressure my employer faces, rather than not actually being able to work.
So for me, I could start to work again immediately, if my employer requires it, but almost certainly from home again.
The “social” changes mean I can now legitimately drive the 80 miles or so, to end up in the same vicinity out in the open with my elderly father, or he and I could both drive separately to a tourist attraction or indeed anywhere in England, and sit on a bench (longer than 2m obviously) for a chat. But I still can’t go into his home for a meal or to stay over a couple of days.
I can do that anywhere within England, but I can’t drive to Glasgow to visit my daughter who lives alone.
So in reality, nothing much has actually changed, for me.
The biggest change this week for me will be dependent upon what the chancellor says later today about furlough.
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No change for me, still totally isolating. Getting exercise in the house, (Tai Chi), and in the garden only.
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No change for me, still totally isolating. Getting exercise in the house, (Tai Chi), and in the garden only.
I love Tai Chi. In fact I was at the point of asking the club to run classes in this just as we started to lock down.
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No change for me, still totally isolating. Getting exercise in the house, (Tai Chi), and in the garden only.
I love Tai Chi. In fact I was at the point of asking the club to run classes in this just as we started to lock down.
That would have been good SM, maybe after CV-19 is over? It's certainly a great way to both relax and exercise for those of us 'less mobile'. Though, as a martial art, it's certain to appeal to the younger and fitter generation too.
I've also been trying Qigong, another fun way to exercise without needing a whole lot of room. Fiendishly clever these Chinese. :thumbsup:
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Reminder - this is the non-political thread.
References to the poor performance of the government and Boris will be deleted, there's another thread for that.
Thanks for the reminder Martin.
I replied to a post about the government,and mine was deleted.
Great job you're doi g there. This thread should only be about praising the government.
I see Hound's post #78 repeating far-Right bullshit tropes is still there too.
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Reminder - this is the non-political thread.
References to the poor performance of the government and Boris will be deleted, there's another thread for that.
Thanks for the reminder Martin.
I replied to a post about the government,and mine was deleted.
Great job you're doi g there. This thread should only be about praising the government.
I see Hound's post #78 repeating far-Right bullshit tropes is still there too.
No it's not.
We can only remove posts once we see them, some of us still have full time jobs remember!!
As for Iberians comment, that's gone too although I see you've quoted him. Its a disgraceful statement as in no way is this a thread about praising any government of any colour. The post Iberian replied to was more about the attitude of the general public.
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It's precisely that SM.
US Govt intelligence officials have said there is no clear evidence pointing at the virus having originated in the Wuhan lab. Yet that line is still being pushed by far-Right disinformation sources.
But it's your call. You can delete messages. I can't. So you are the sole arbiter of what is "political".
I fail to see why you're pointing that out, the post has gone, why the need for extra explanation and a dig at the same time?
By the way, you need to read my post again, it's you that's' misinterpreting now.
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Apologies, I misread your post and I didn't check that you had deleted the other one . I unreservedly withdraw those comments and have deleted my post.
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Reminder - this is the non-political thread.
References to the poor performance of the government and Boris will be deleted, there's another thread for that.
Thanks for the reminder Martin.
I replied to a post about the government,and mine was deleted.
Great job you're doi g there. This thread should only be about praising the government.
I see Hound's post #78 repeating far-Right bullshit tropes is still there too.
I have no idea what my post said BST but your comment above is very disrespectful.
There is no need for you to write stuff like that.
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In my opinion the relaxing of lockdown has gone too far. Shouldn’t allow people to drive as far as they want to. Allowing more time outside is good and also allowing us to meet one person outside household. I’m lucky that work issues don’t impact on my life as I am retired.
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Martin
Just to say I'd be up for the Tai Chi if you can get something sorted with the club when this is all over. Great idea.
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For me out here nothing has really changed.
Seeing the family is always video anyway as they are in the Philippines. Luckily my wife and kids are here with me.
Rovers is always accessed by here, the only thing I am remotely interested in football wise anyway. Couldn't tell you anything about any other teams or leagues.
The lock down has reunited me with photography again,and being how I am I don't do it the easy way. I particularly enjoy astrophotography and its challenges. Luckily we are blessed with dark sky's in the desert and super clear nights. I am currently set on trying to get clear shots of the ISS, as we see it at least once a day here, we had 3 near overhead passes in the last 24 hours. its proving tricky as it travels past at 17,500mph and requiring fine exposure settings. But thankfully our vision duration's are usually around 5 to 7 minuets in length.
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Good to see you aren’t being negative about the situation.
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Good to see you aren’t being negative about the situation.
You mean unlike others on here he's not just taking shots in the dark?
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At long last some good news about statistics and figures. Infection rate drops by half;
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-cases-in-uk-have-more-than-halved-in-last-week-ons-figures-12000892
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Very welcome news.
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That is good news, but absolutely not unexpected. The rate of infection has been coming down throughout the entire lockdown period. That was the point of it.
The big question now is what happens as we are now easing the lockdown. That 39,000 new cases per week at the end of May equates to about 58 new cases per week per 100,000 population. That compares with Germany's lockdown easing process, where they have legislated that if any Lander's rate goes UP to 50 cases per week per 100,000, they have to go back into lockdown. We are coming OUT of lockdown with a higher rate than that and a still barely functioning TTI system which is not expected to be fully up to speed before September.
Hopefully we will ride this out.
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That is good news, but absolutely not unexpected. The rate of infection has been coming down throughout the entire lockdown period. That was the point of it.
The big question now is what happens as we are now easing the lockdown. That 39,000 new cases per week at the end of May equates to about 58 new cases per week per 100,000 population. That compares with Germany's lockdown easing process, where they have legislated that if any Lander's rate goes UP to 50 cases per week per 100,000, they have to go back into lockdown. We are coming OUT of lockdown with a higher rate than that and a still barely functioning TTI system which is not expected to be fully up to speed before September.
Hopefully we will ride this out.
I'm not sure it will be an easy ride BST, the government has made a hash of things so far it's very difficult to believe they'll get the next bit right.
The New European sums up the journey so far very well indeed....
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/uk-population-being-fooled-by-government-1-6684939?fbclid=IwAR3RVQE0adqLasn6-L6mhQOIVyweTGohoItQTtO-NUEYv9IN0uKx5Hu5Kfo
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If it is going exactly according to their plan and with the Gove comment about "running it hot" and Johnson's statement of pride in how they have handled it you could be forgiven for supposing that is exactly what is happening. They're only making a hash of it if it hasn't turned out the way they hoped.
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Can I just remind everybody this is the non-political thread? Its an area for people to discuss the virus in how it affects them, what they feel about it, news on vaccines etc.
Certain individuals seem to interpret my comments that I'm supporting the government by proposing such a thread, nothing could be further from the truth, but I'm happy to comment on the government on the other thread, this one is reserved for discussion on the virus itself.
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My apologies SM
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An excellent article here from Fergus Walsh about the Corona virus;
Fergus Walsh: Was coronavirus here earlier than we thought?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52935644
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I'm certain I had it in the first week of February.
I was in meetings in London for 2 days at the end of January. I was sat eating breakfast in the hotel and reading the news on my phone. It had just been announced that flights in and out of China were suspended by BA. I looked round the hotel dining room and it must have been 60 or 70 percent Chinese folk in there. I thought these poor buggers aren't getting home any time soon.
The week after I felt shocking. Aching all over, sleeping on and off all day, dizzy when I stood up, dry cough. I didn't have breathing difficulties though. I just laid on the sofa for a week, drifting in and out of sleep. Went back to work after 10 days, and joked that I'd had coronavirus.
I don't think it's much of a joke now. I wouldn't mind taking the antibodies test just to confirm mind.
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Lots of people suspecting that too RTR - myself and Mrs DW amongst them.
Would like Anti body test for us too
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The company I work for has obtained 50,000 test kits and a million pieces of PPE. I’ve received my PPE but I’m waiting for the test which we all have to undergo before attending any company office.
I don’t think I’ve had CV-19 though, so it probably won’t help.
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Lots of people suspecting that too RTR - myself and Mrs DW amongst them.
Would like Anti body test for us too
There are people that have blood tests everday for other things, it’s surely not beyond the realms of possibility to conduct an ant body test at the same time?
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I'm certain I had it in the first week of February.
I was in meetings in London for 2 days at the end of January. I was sat eating breakfast in the hotel and reading the news on my phone. It had just been announced that flights in and out of China were suspended by BA. I looked round the hotel dining room and it must have been 60 or 70 percent Chinese folk in there. I thought these poor buggers aren't getting home any time soon.
The week after I felt shocking. Aching all over, sleeping on and off all day, dizzy when I stood up, dry cough. I didn't have breathing difficulties though. I just laid on the sofa for a week, drifting in and out of sleep. Went back to work after 10 days, and joked that I'd had coronavirus.
I don't think it's much of a joke now. I wouldn't mind taking the antibodies test just to confirm mind.
Those are exactly the same symptoms that I had Rob, about the end of February. Put me on my back for 3 days.
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Similar for me too, it lasted three or four days and I was totally washed out.
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Do you think some of you may have had normal flu?
It is highly unlikely that there were more than a couple of thousand cases in the entire country in mid Feb. The chances of three regulars in here having it are statistically straining credibility.
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Do you think some of you may have had normal flu?
It is highly unlikely that there were more than a couple of thousand cases in the entire country in mid Feb. The chances of three regulars in here having it are statistically straining credibility.
I had a flu jab BST.
Could I have had such a bad dose of something bearing that in mind.
Also, no one knows how many people in the country might have had the virus at that time.
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Do you think some of you may have had normal flu?
It is highly unlikely that there were more than a couple of thousand cases in the entire country in mid Feb. The chances of three regulars in here having it are statistically straining credibility.
I had a flu jab BST.
Could I have had such a bad dose of something bearing that in mind.
Also, no one knows how many people in the country might have had the virus at that time.
The flu jab doesn’t cover every variant of flu
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Lots of people suspecting that too RTR - myself and Mrs DW amongst them.
Would like Anti body test for us too
There are people that have blood tests everday for other things, it’s surely not beyond the realms of possibility to conduct an ant body test at the same time?
All it takes is an extra sample and the results could be back within 24 hours. So why the problem?
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Lots of people suspecting that too RTR - myself and Mrs DW amongst them.
Would like Anti body test for us too
There are people that have blood tests everday for other things, it’s surely not beyond the realms of possibility to conduct an ant body test at the same time?
All it takes is an extra sample and the results could be back within 24 hours. So why the problem?
Who knows ?
For me it’s the logical thing to do, surely it’s in the populations best interests to do that
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Do you think some of you may have had normal flu?
It is highly unlikely that there were more than a couple of thousand cases in the entire country in mid Feb. The chances of three regulars in here having it are statistically straining credibility.
I had a flu jab BST.
Could I have had such a bad dose of something bearing that in mind.
Also, no one knows how many people in the country might have had the virus at that time.
The flu jab doesn’t cover every variant of flu
Agreed, but it isn’t beyond the realms of possibility that quite a few people have had Covid but it hasn’t been reported.
I think I have read a few rumours that there hasn’t been enough testing !!
It has been reported that the virus was in the community before it was officially announced.
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Lots of people suspecting that too RTR - myself and Mrs DW amongst them.
Would like Anti body test for us too
There are people that have blood tests everday for other things, it’s surely not beyond the realms of possibility to conduct an ant body test at the same time?
All it takes is an extra sample and the results could be back within 24 hours. So why the problem?
Who knows ?
For me it’s the logical thing to do, surely it’s in the populations best interests to do that
The logical thing to do would seem obvious to everyone with an ounce of common sense. So that rules out Boris and his gang doesn't it? I'm just waiting to see what happens when using the track and trace system one of the members of nhs staff is found positive and all her/his colleagues have to go into 14 day isolation. How is that going to work in the emergency departments?
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Do you think some of you may have had normal flu?
It is highly unlikely that there were more than a couple of thousand cases in the entire country in mid Feb. The chances of three regulars in here having it are statistically straining credibility.
I had a flu jab BST.
Could I have had such a bad dose of something bearing that in mind.
Also, no one knows how many people in the country might have had the virus at that time.
The flu jab doesn’t cover every variant of flu
Agreed, but it isn’t beyond the realms of possibility that quite a few people have had Covid but it hasn’t been reported.
I think I have read a few rumours that there hasn’t been enough testing !!
It has been reported that the virus was in the community before it was officially announced.
I agree, my comment was just a fact, my opinion is that CV19 has been around linger than what we thought and possibly many early deaths were misdiagnosed as pneumonia
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Do you think some of you may have had normal flu?
It is highly unlikely that there were more than a couple of thousand cases in the entire country in mid Feb. The chances of three regulars in here having it are statistically straining credibility.
Well if we are to believe what Johnson is saying, we have the capacity to do 200k tests a day!!
I had a flu jab BST.
Could I have had such a bad dose of something bearing that in mind.
Also, no one knows how many people in the country might have had the virus at that time.
The flu jab doesn’t cover every variant of flu
Agreed, but it isn’t beyond the realms of possibility that quite a few people have had Covid but it hasn’t been reported.
I think I have read a few rumours that there hasn’t been enough testing !!
It has been reported that the virus was in the community before it was officially announced.
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Do you think some of you may have had normal flu?
It is highly unlikely that there were more than a couple of thousand cases in the entire country in mid Feb. The chances of three regulars in here having it are statistically straining credibility.
I had a flu jab BST.
Could I have had such a bad dose of something bearing that in mind.
Also, no one knows how many people in the country might have had the virus at that time.
The flu jab doesn’t cover every variant of flu
Agreed, but it isn’t beyond the realms of possibility that quite a few people have had Covid but it hasn’t been reported.
I think I have read a few rumours that there hasn’t been enough testing !!
It has been reported that the virus was in the community before it was officially announced.
I agree, my comment was just a fact, my opinion is that CV19 has been around linger than what we thought and possibly many early deaths were misdiagnosed as pneumonia
Also Filo, I am not claiming that I might have had Covid, just stating that I had similar symptoms to Rob and Steve.
In my case, it was in January.
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Has anyone had an antibody test yet that detects whether you've had it?
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Has anyone had an antibody test yet that detects whether you've had it?
As far as I'm aware only NHS staff have had the antibody test.
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Has anyone had an antibody test yet that detects whether you've had it?
As far as I'm aware only NHS staff have had the antibody test.
Apparently Superdrug are offering an antibody test for £69.
It involves the taking a blood sample and sending it off to an accredited lab for testing.
They (Superdrug) say that they have suspensed the use of their finger prick testing which is supposedly unreliable.
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Mate of mine who's a doctor in a hospital put his hand up to trial a vaccine and was gobsmacked to find that his antibody test - part of the preliminaries - had come back positive.
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Do you think some of you may have had normal flu?
It is highly unlikely that there were more than a couple of thousand cases in the entire country in mid Feb. The chances of three regulars in here having it are statistically straining credibility.
I had a flu jab BST.
Could I have had such a bad dose of something bearing that in mind.
Also, no one knows how many people in the country might have had the virus at that time.
We have a very good idea of how many people had CV-19 at the time. Because we know the subsequent death rates and we know from studies all around the world that the Infection Fatality Rate is around 1%. Knowing those two things makes it relatively easy to work back to figure out how many were infected at a given time.
Using that approach, epidemiologists have estimated that there were around 100,000 new cases a day by 24 March. And because we know that the new cases were doubling every 3-4 days, that suggests that there would have been 500-1500 new cases a day at the start of March and maybe 2-20 per day at the start of Feb.
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Speculation now that cases could have been around as early as November
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I wonder how many a day there could have been.
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If there WERE cases in the UK in November, they must have been VERY well isolated from the rest of the community.
The doubling rate pre-lockdown is pretty well established at somewhere between 3-4 days. SO, if there had been say ONE case in the country on 30 November, and if that case had been circulating in the community, infecting other people and if there had been ZERO other cases coming into the country, by lockdown on 24 March (115 days later) , there would have been time for 30-40 doublings by the end of February, meaning that by lockdown, there would have been time for somewhere between 1 billion and 1 trillion people in Britain to have been infected.
I think we can safely assume that there were no cases in Britain in November. Or if there were, they locked themselves in lead-lined boxes. My best guess is that the first cases in Britain were sometime in mid-to late-January. That would give time for the 15 or 16 doublings (45-65 days) to get us to the estimated 100,000 infections per day by lockdown.
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Some good news for the UK today, but not necessarily for the rest of the world, even Germany is struggling in places, see BBC here;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-53074389
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Yeah I saw that this morning.
Good news indeed.
I think I also heard it said that it is hopeful that we will have a vaccine ready by springtime.
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Yeah I saw that this morning.
Good news indeed.
I think I also heard it said that it is hopeful that we will have a vaccine ready by springtime.
I've been watching Bloomberg for market information and its interesting to see the share prices of those companies putting out positive information start to climb considerably. Astrazeneca, who've said the vaccine could be ready by springtime, has seen its share price rise by £400 this month.
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Springtime? We can basically say then that next season's f*cked. Especially for Leagues 1 and 2.
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Springtime? We can basically say then that next season's f*cked. Especially for Leagues 1 and 2.
There'll be the opportunity to see live football. Not sure on the numbers but it will be possible.
The talk in all quarters some weeks ago was that attending itself wouldn't be the biggest risk area, travelling to and from on public transport would be that.
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Springtime? We can basically say then that next season's f*cked. Especially for Leagues 1 and 2.
There'll be the opportunity to see live football. Not sure on the numbers but it will be possible.
The talk in all quarters some weeks ago was that attending itself wouldn't be the biggest risk area, travelling to and from on public transport would be that.
I'll be OK then Martin. I always walk to the Keepmoat and back.
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On a broadly Covid related theme, I was musing last night on the effect that lockdown/social distancing may have had on numerous other infectious diseases while we've had the spotlight on Covid-19.
Could we have eradicated or at least seriously depleted the spread of other viruses like SARS, MERS or any number of other less serious infectious diseases as a by-product of our anti Covid measures? It'll be interesting to see if this is the case over coming months and years.
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On a broadly Covid related theme, I was musing last night on the effect that lockdown/social distancing may have had on numerous other infectious diseases while we've had the spotlight on Covid-19.
Could we have eradicated or at least seriously depleted the spread of other viruses like SARS, MERS or any number of other less serious infectious diseases as a by-product of our anti Covid measures? It'll be interesting to see if this is the case over coming months and years.
The flu figures are down as well Mike, pretty obvious really. But it does fuel the conspiracy theorists who assume that we're manipulating the figures.
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On a broadly Covid related theme, I was musing last night on the effect that lockdown/social distancing may have had on numerous other infectious diseases while we've had the spotlight on Covid-19.
Could we have eradicated or at least seriously depleted the spread of other viruses like SARS, MERS or any number of other less serious infectious diseases as a by-product of our anti Covid measures? It'll be interesting to see if this is the case over coming months and years.
It's fascinating that I haven't had so much as a sniffle since the lockdown started. I usually have a cold or a sore throat every few months, but not even the merest hint of one over the past 3 months.
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Apparently Chlamydia infections are down too.
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On a broadly Covid related theme, I was musing last night on the effect that lockdown/social distancing may have had on numerous other infectious diseases while we've had the spotlight on Covid-19.
Could we have eradicated or at least seriously depleted the spread of other viruses like SARS, MERS or any number of other less serious infectious diseases as a by-product of our anti Covid measures? It'll be interesting to see if this is the case over coming months and years.
It's fascinating that I haven't had so much as a sniffle since the lockdown started. I usually have a cold or a sore throat every few months, but not even the merest hint of one over the past 3 months.
Every few weeks in my case, always the joke that I'm ill for a change.... Been illness free pretty much for months. The advantage of avoiding transport, work and generally other people. On the flip side, that may mean a knock on effect for immunity in future?
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Grandaughters managed to pick up thread worm she hasn't been in touch with anyone out of the family.