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You could tell us how Starmer could win the young left city/town voter and retain the middle without which he can't take government. And maybe answer the questioins I posed?
Don’t forget, Hartlepool is the place that elected a man in a monkey costume for the Mayor, they’re not blessed with brain cells up there
Quote from: SydneyRover on April 11, 2021, 12:54:24 amYou could tell us how Starmer could win the young left city/town voter and retain the middle without which he can't take government. And maybe answer the questioins I posed?The point on this is they can't. They want different things and are different people. Just because they are termed the left doesn't mean they have the same wants, ideas and political leanings.That for me is the problem for labour. The so called left has contrasting views in some areas and it's hard to see them unite together despite what anyone says. There is not a huge amount in common than not liking another party in some cases, this inevitably the party cannot please them all.Would they gain more votes attracting the many Tory voters that are neither left or right wing? Potentially.
Quote from: Filo on April 11, 2021, 10:16:23 amDon’t forget, Hartlepool is the place that elected a man in a monkey costume for the Mayor, they’re not blessed with brain cells up thereAye , you carry on disrespecting the electorate because that's working really well isn't it in the former red wall .
So to simplyfy things and bring them down to a basic level:people on the left of politics have a conscience and principles, so will only vote for the party that is closest to those principles.people on the right of politics have no conscience, no prinicples and will vote for the party which says they are going to be cruelest to foreigners and reduce public services so they don't have to pay tax.
Quote from: wilts rover on April 11, 2021, 03:07:17 pmSo to simplyfy things and bring them down to a basic level:people on the left of politics have a conscience and principles, so will only vote for the party that is closest to those principles.people on the right of politics have no conscience, no prinicples and will vote for the party which says they are going to be cruelest to foreigners and reduce public services so they don't have to pay tax.Wilts, from a totally neutral point of view, that post is just your opinion and is probably because of your very left persuasion.
They don't need foreign aid, they come here for it now by boat.
Wilts, was the Labour 2019 manifesto honesty personified in what it had promised to deliver if they had won.
Quote from: drfchound on April 11, 2021, 04:14:02 pmWilts, was the Labour 2019 manifesto honesty personified in what it had promised to deliver if they had won.Dunno, they didn't win to be able to find out.Unlike the Tory ad campaign - which did happen and you have nothing to say about i see
Quote from: wilts rover on April 11, 2021, 09:11:09 pmQuote from: drfchound on April 11, 2021, 04:14:02 pmWilts, was the Labour 2019 manifesto honesty personified in what it had promised to deliver if they had won.Dunno, they didn't win to be able to find out.Unlike the Tory ad campaign - which did happen and you have nothing to say about i seeThe Labour manifesto was a car crash and was a big part of the massive loss they suffered.
Quote from: drfchound on April 11, 2021, 10:07:16 pmQuote from: wilts rover on April 11, 2021, 09:11:09 pmQuote from: drfchound on April 11, 2021, 04:14:02 pmWilts, was the Labour 2019 manifesto honesty personified in what it had promised to deliver if they had won.Dunno, they didn't win to be able to find out.Unlike the Tory ad campaign - which did happen and you have nothing to say about i seeThe Labour manifesto was a car crash and was a big part of the massive loss they suffered.Which policies were you against?
Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on April 11, 2021, 07:36:18 amQuote from: SydneyRover on April 11, 2021, 12:54:24 amYou could tell us how Starmer could win the young left city/town voter and retain the middle without which he can't take government. And maybe answer the questioins I posed?The point on this is they can't. They want different things and are different people. Just because they are termed the left doesn't mean they have the same wants, ideas and political leanings.That for me is the problem for labour. The so called left has contrasting views in some areas and it's hard to see them unite together despite what anyone says. There is not a huge amount in common than not liking another party in some cases, this inevitably the party cannot please them all.Would they gain more votes attracting the many Tory voters that are neither left or right wing? Potentially.Political views split Right-Left on economics and Authoritarian-Liberal on social views. The latter you could perhaps also cast as Nationalist-Internationalist.The Tories tend to win because they sweep up all the Right economics vote and typically they don't split on the social views.The problem for the Left is that there are too many people obsessing on the cultural/social issue which will always divide the Left. So the consistent majority in the country for Left economic approaches doesn't tend to lead to Labour Govts. And we see in here precisely why. Wes and Tyke both say they no longer support Labour, but for different reasons. Both can make a strong case why they are justified. But both miss the point that their actions are effectively giving the Tories the keys to No10 forever.
Quote from: DonnyOsmond on April 11, 2021, 10:12:40 pmQuote from: drfchound on April 11, 2021, 10:07:16 pmQuote from: wilts rover on April 11, 2021, 09:11:09 pmQuote from: drfchound on April 11, 2021, 04:14:02 pmWilts, was the Labour 2019 manifesto honesty personified in what it had promised to deliver if they had won.Dunno, they didn't win to be able to find out.Unlike the Tory ad campaign - which did happen and you have nothing to say about i seeThe Labour manifesto was a car crash and was a big part of the massive loss they suffered.Which policies were you against?Not so much individual policies, more that they were promising things that were likely going to be difficult to deliver.Financial pie in the sky in my opinion.Corbyn himself was also an issue for many people and that cost them votes too, in my opinion.