Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Donnybob on October 23, 2011, 08:29:37 am
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First the bad news. I'll be out of the country on Tuesday night and if previous form is anything to go by that's bad news for the Rovers. They seem to lose every single game when I'm abroad. Let's hope that changes, eh?
But on to more serious matters. It's all well and good that the Wellred's of this world think it's fine to attack Rovers fans for having the temerity to have an opposing opinion to his/ theirs, tell them to f*** off to Leeds and so on, but it is patently clear that a great number of fans are harbouring grave concerns for the club. 'My way or no way' is not the answer and it helps no-one. It just makes the Wellred's look like pompous asses.
But this is not an excuse to ridicule him or even a desire to.
Like many I'm trying to understand what has happened and see beyond the confusion. I don't care who has spoken with whom, we have not been told the truth yet. Not by a country mile.
So I lay awake last night trying to put a finger on what was bothering me most. The answer came a little clearer when I tried to apply a timeline. Can anyone answer me one simple question. When did this whole shenanigans begin?
I'm sure many thought it was Ryan's remarkable U-turn. I did, until I began wondering when this wild and whacky plan was hatched by McKay. How long had he been planning and when did he approach the club with his master plan?
I don't for one second think that it was after JR's proclamation. Surely this has been on the cards for months. I'll gamble my life savings on the fact that it was proposed to SOD weeks before the story broke. I'd gamble some of the senior players were briefed, too.
I'm guessing it went against every principle in SOD's character and he will have voiced strong opinions against the gamble. I cannot imagine he would accept for a moment that an agent could be telling him who would be sold and who might be added to his squad.
Somewhere between the period when he was told and the day he left he was issued with an ultimatum - buy in or ship out.
I'm sure it will have had an impact on team morale, performances and results. After all, the players had great respect for SOD when you listen back to their interviews.
Would it not make sense during the same period for McKay to line up his best mate. He told us he's here to make money and obviously he would do rather well out of the club signing up one of his clients.
What the club could not afford was SOD going public on why/ how he was being levered out. What better way than to put him on gardening leave rather than to rip up his contract and pay compensation?
I'm truly sorry, but for all JR's eagerness to jump into the limelight at the drop of a hat, he has been very ecconomical with the truth. By that, I'm not saying he lied, just didn't share the whole truth.
In the meantime, negotiations have been ongoing with the authorities seeking permission for McKay to control the club's operations.
SOD remains gagged, on gardening leave. So far we've not heard a single word from him and he certainly is the one person who holds the key to what went off.
I'm guessing, based on recent events, that he was told to slash the wage budget. I don't believe for a moment that he had no interest in youth development. I imagine he would have been told something along the lines of take your pick, have a youth team and lose Billy to pay for it. To which he'll have said 'I'm not interested, thanks'. Easy to twist quotes, eh?
I'd love a meeting with JR and one with SOD, too. I'd love to get to the bottom of what has really gone off because no-one so far has been brave enough to contradict, to confront and to ask the really difficult questions. It's been like throwing sprats to seals - arf, arf, arf... The real story is still out there.
Instead of a clean break we have a stench hanging round the club. We have those who would follow a muck cart convinced it would lead them to the roses attacking other fans who hold different opinions to their own. Ryan's donkeys I call them. Give them a carrot and you can lead them anywhere.
Diarra will sign this week, we're told. Like all the others we've been linked with. Well, let's hope he's lining up on Saturday, if not Tuesday. Otherwise it's just hyperbole and bull****. Two players don't make a revolution and it won't take us to the Premiership (which seems further away every day).
Sounds like our stellar signings had an off day yesterday, by the way.
Intelligent fans should be raising questions on forums like this and their loyalty should not be questioned by the idiot fringe who would frankly line up to buy snake oil if given a chance. Let's not forget they will be the same fans who stab 'Soundbite' in the back when he's booted out.
It is not wrong to demand the truth. It is our right. This is democracy.
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Good news, Bob. We don't play this Tuesday!
I doubt the whole truth will come out until SO'D writes his autobiography. Even then, we may not get the full story.
To go off at a tangent slightly, the decision taken by the Football League to sign up to the Premier League's plans for Youth Football mean there will be no point in a club like Rovers having a youth set-up. Could that explain SO'D's alleged \"lack of interest\" in the Youth Team?
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Blimey Bob, you need to get a hobby, or mogadon or similar, you are going to make yourself ill worrying so deeply about things over which you have no control or power. Democracy is far too overated and misunderstood, it doesnt give everyone the power to know everything and control the decesion making, what it actually does is give a mandate to people in power to say I can do what I want within legal constraints. I didn't vote for Cameron, but he runs the country. Why have the Hillsborough documents never been fully published?
The truth is Sean O'Driscoll is no longer manager at DRFC. The facts that lead to that decision - only John Ryan knows. He seems to have told some people on here more than others (but how do they know they are true?). If you really, really want to know....well you will have to ask him. And whilst you are at it, can you also ask him what were the real facts and reasoning behind Dave Penney's sacking, I always wanted to know. And he is a mate of Kevin Keegan's, why was KK 'mugged whilst sleeping in his car' 20 miles from home as he had stoped in a laybye because he was tired, always wanted to know the facts behind that to?
Personally I am into cycling (hence my avatar) which I find very theraputic as well as good exercise, just going to finish this tea and set off for a 60 mile ride of you fancy joining me?
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First the bad news. I'll be out of the country on Tuesday night and if previous form is anything to go by that's bad news for the Rovers. They seem to lose every single game when I'm abroad. Let's hope that changes, eh?
But on to more serious matters. It's all well and good that the Wellred's of this world think it's fine to attack Rovers fans for having the temerity to have an opposing opinion to his/ theirs, tell them to f*** off to Leeds and so on, but it is patently clear that a great number of fans are harbouring grave concerns for the club. 'My way or no way' is not the answer and it helps no-one. It just makes the Wellred's look like pompous asses.
But this is not an excuse to ridicule him or even a desire to.
Like many I'm trying to understand what has happened and see beyond the confusion. I don't care who has spoken with whom, we have not been told the truth yet. Not by a country mile.
So I lay awake last night trying to put a finger on what was bothering me most. The answer came a little clearer when I tried to apply a timeline. Can anyone answer me one simple question. When did this whole shenanigans begin?
I'm sure many thought it was Ryan's remarkable U-turn. I did, until I began wondering when this wild and whacky plan was hatched by McKay. How long had he been planning and when did he approach the club with his master plan?
I don't for one second think that it was after JR's proclamation. Surely this has been on the cards for months. I'll gamble my life savings on the fact that it was proposed to SOD weeks before the story broke. I'd gamble some of the senior players were briefed, too.
I'm guessing it went against every principle in SOD's character and he will have voiced strong opinions against the gamble. I cannot imagine he would accept for a moment that an agent could be telling him who would be sold and who might be added to his squad.
Somewhere between the period when he was told and the day he left he was issued with an ultimatum - buy in or ship out.
I'm sure it will have had an impact on team morale, performances and results. After all, the players had great respect for SOD when you listen back to their interviews.
Would it not make sense during the same period for McKay to line up his best mate. He told us he's here to make money and obviously he would do rather well out of the club signing up one of his clients.
What the club could not afford was SOD going public on why/ how he was being levered out. What better way than to put him on gardening leave rather than to rip up his contract and pay compensation?
I'm truly sorry, but for all JR's eagerness to jump into the limelight at the drop of a hat, he has been very ecconomical with the truth. By that, I'm not saying he lied, just didn't share the whole truth.
In the meantime, negotiations have been ongoing with the authorities seeking permission for McKay to control the club's operations.
SOD remains gagged, on gardening leave. So far we've not heard a single word from him and he certainly is the one person who holds the key to what went off.
I'm guessing, based on recent events, that he was told to slash the wage budget. I don't believe for a moment that he had no interest in youth development. I imagine he would have been told something along the lines of take your pick, have a youth team and lose Billy to pay for it. To which he'll have said 'I'm not interested, thanks'. Easy to twist quotes, eh?
I'd love a meeting with JR and one with SOD, too. I'd love to get to the bottom of what has really gone off because no-one so far has been brave enough to contradict, to confront and to ask the really difficult questions. It's been like throwing sprats to seals - arf, arf, arf... The real story is still out there.
Instead of a clean break we have a stench hanging round the club. We have those who would follow a muck cart convinced it would lead them to the roses attacking other fans who hold different opinions to their own. Ryan's donkeys I call them. Give them a carrot and you can lead them anywhere.
Diarra will sign this week, we're told. Like all the others we've been linked with. Well, let's hope he's lining up on Saturday, if not Tuesday. Otherwise it's just hyperbole and bull****. Two players don't make a revolution and it won't take us to the Premiership (which seems further away every day).
Sounds like our stellar signings had an off day yesterday, by the way.
Intelligent fans should be raising questions on forums like this and their loyalty should not be questioned by the idiot fringe who would frankly line up to buy snake oil if given a chance. Let's not forget they will be the same fans who stab 'Soundbite' in the back when he's booted out.
It is not wrong to demand the truth. It is our right. This is democracy.
If you had been an Alliance member and gone to the meeting with John Ryan last week maybe you would have heard a bit more about what exactly happend and why. You would have also heard from the Manager about how HE wants to run things at the club.
But then again certain people refuse to believe anything that was said so what would have been the point.
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Exactly!
And some people will believe any old line they're shot.
It's called a different opinion.
You are entitled to believe this policy will work. Just as you are entitled to critically disect performances and rip players you don't like to shreds.
There are a lot of folk who don't buy into this Mickey Mouse way to run a club and they have concerns for the long term, not the quick fix.
This has probably been on the go for two months now. We're a quarter of the way through the season. Most of our key players are now back. We have two new Galacticos in the team and we're only just clear of the bottom thanks to a couple of flukey results.
I'm not seeing this improvement.
I'll take relegation now. I just want a structure in place that brings us back up and keeps us strong in the longer term. People are raising their eyebrows for good reason. If you cannot see the pitfalls then enjoy the ride while it lasts. Don't demand everyone dances to your tune though.
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We are 1 position higher than we were when the new Manager came in. THAT IS AN IMPROVEMENT .......FACT
If you think that if we get relegated we will come straight back up with a stronger set up then sorry but you really are deluded.
Sheffield Wednesday are a bigger club than us and they couldn't do it.
Leeds United are a bigger club than us and they couldn't do it.
Charlton Athletic are a bigger club than us and they couldn't do it.
Southampton are a bigger club than us and they couldn't do it.
Need I go on?
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Bob,
why don't you join the VSC and then you could ask JR yourself, he always makes himself avaialble and answers questions at our AGM and outside of that we can and do meet with him to question what is going on.
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Good post Donnybob and one that will no doubt be derided as SO'D happy clapping/DS baiting/disagreeing with JR/time for you to go to Leeds etc etc etc.
The current situation at DRFC bothers me more than a little, and I'm not sure what to make of everything yet. It could be a masterstroke and a revolutionary blueprint, or it could be disaster, time will tell - I, along with everyone else on here I hope, pray for the former but should remain wary of the latter!
The model appears to be a business-based model as opposed to a football 'club' model, and we have all been crying out for ages that parts of our club need to be run in a better business-like fashion: Primarily in the areas of pricing, commercial, publicity and advertising. The product of this business model is what happens on the pitch, that is the vehicle for generating interest and support then reaping in the rewards.
As Donnybob says - we are not all privvy to all the facts from all perspectives, however as others have said on this forum as supporters we are not necessarily entitled to be aware of all perspectives either. The club sells us the product we buy it or buy into it in the hope that everyone is pulling in the same direction, Directors, Management and Coaching Team, Players and Fans.
My take on the way SO'D went and DS came resembles Donnybobs (although I favour neither manager over the other - they are afterall both integral cogs in the wheel that is the product of DRFC that I buy into) in that I would imagine that this model was offered to SO'D in the best interests of DRFC and it went against his principles, so the board relieved him of his tenure as they'd accepted this model as the future and if SO'D didn't want in on it, the way forward was to bring someone in who did - DS!
I don't have a problem with that, if that's the way the club have decided to go than it get's my backing, but it still doesn't quite sit well with me - yet!
I'll reserve my judgement fully to see how things progress/regress. As has been mentioned by other posters, there is a concern that contracted players my feel down as others could well be shipped in to pressure/replace them - but some of them need that as for far too long they've been guaranteed starters ergo they've helped get the club in the current situation by their performances or lack thereof in 2011, so they now need to earn the right to hold their positions.
It's an exciting time for me but nontheless a little worrying too! I want it to succeed and will give my support to this new model, but I will also remain a little sceptical until it's been given time to work, as I always am with Rovers. We are trying to establish ourselves at a level not reached in over 50 years, and if this is one way to do that successfully, so be it! We all talk of loyalty in football to and by players, managers and agents, but that doesn't exist now - loyalty exists in fans and fans alone, as in any other line of work, if you can do something that betters you, then you do it, business models change as companies strive to improve!
The jury in my opinion is out as to whether DRFC's new model improves us, but I'm prepared to see what happens - I don't believe things will turn around overnight, but I can see that we'd reached a crossroads - hopefully we've taken the correct direction - lets see when we arrive at our destination wherever that may be, then maybe we'll know clearer!
It would be good to be privvy to SO'D's take on things but I've never known many occasions whereby an ousted manager has been given a chance to fight his corner after he's gone, and he probably shouldn't need to, the Board make the decisions they feel are correct as is their job, we just turn up and give our support, because that's what fans do!
Let's see where DRFC ends up before we castigate the new model or put it on a pedestal as the way forward!
:rtid:
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Quality post Al. That just about sums up how i feel about it too.
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Quality post Al. That just about sums up how i feel about it too.
Agreed- we need to see how this pans out. However, it is a high-stakes bet and if it doesn't succeed I fear we'll be in the same boat as Plymouth in two years' time.
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First the bad news. I'll be out of the country on Tuesday night and if previous form is anything to go by that's bad news for the Rovers. They seem to lose every single game when I'm abroad. Let's hope that changes, eh?
But on to more serious matters. It's all well and good that the Wellred's of this world think it's fine to attack Rovers fans for having the temerity to have an opposing opinion to his/ theirs, tell them to f*** off to Leeds and so on, but it is patently clear that a great number of fans are harbouring grave concerns for the club. 'My way or no way' is not the answer and it helps no-one. It just makes the Wellred's look like pompous asses.
But this is not an excuse to ridicule him or even a desire to.
Like many I'm trying to understand what has happened and see beyond the confusion. I don't care who has spoken with whom, we have not been told the truth yet. Not by a country mile.
So I lay awake last night trying to put a finger on what was bothering me most. The answer came a little clearer when I tried to apply a timeline. Can anyone answer me one simple question. When did this whole shenanigans begin?
I'm sure many thought it was Ryan's remarkable U-turn. I did, until I began wondering when this wild and whacky plan was hatched by McKay. How long had he been planning and when did he approach the club with his master plan?
I don't for one second think that it was after JR's proclamation. Surely this has been on the cards for months. I'll gamble my life savings on the fact that it was proposed to SOD weeks before the story broke. I'd gamble some of the senior players were briefed, too.
I'm guessing it went against every principle in SOD's character and he will have voiced strong opinions against the gamble. I cannot imagine he would accept for a moment that an agent could be telling him who would be sold and who might be added to his squad.
Somewhere between the period when he was told and the day he left he was issued with an ultimatum - buy in or ship out.
I'm sure it will have had an impact on team morale, performances and results. After all, the players had great respect for SOD when you listen back to their interviews.
Would it not make sense during the same period for McKay to line up his best mate. He told us he's here to make money and obviously he would do rather well out of the club signing up one of his clients.
What the club could not afford was SOD going public on why/ how he was being levered out. What better way than to put him on gardening leave rather than to rip up his contract and pay compensation?
I'm truly sorry, but for all JR's eagerness to jump into the limelight at the drop of a hat, he has been very ecconomical with the truth. By that, I'm not saying he lied, just didn't share the whole truth.
In the meantime, negotiations have been ongoing with the authorities seeking permission for McKay to control the club's operations.
SOD remains gagged, on gardening leave. So far we've not heard a single word from him and he certainly is the one person who holds the key to what went off.
I'm guessing, based on recent events, that he was told to slash the wage budget. I don't believe for a moment that he had no interest in youth development. I imagine he would have been told something along the lines of take your pick, have a youth team and lose Billy to pay for it. To which he'll have said 'I'm not interested, thanks'. Easy to twist quotes, eh?
I'd love a meeting with JR and one with SOD, too. I'd love to get to the bottom of what has really gone off because no-one so far has been brave enough to contradict, to confront and to ask the really difficult questions. It's been like throwing sprats to seals - arf, arf, arf... The real story is still out there.
Instead of a clean break we have a stench hanging round the club. We have those who would follow a muck cart convinced it would lead them to the roses attacking other fans who hold different opinions to their own. Ryan's donkeys I call them. Give them a carrot and you can lead them anywhere.
Diarra will sign this week, we're told. Like all the others we've been linked with. Well, let's hope he's lining up on Saturday, if not Tuesday. Otherwise it's just hyperbole and bull****. Two players don't make a revolution and it won't take us to the Premiership (which seems further away every day).
Sounds like our stellar signings had an off day yesterday, by the way.
Intelligent fans should be raising questions on forums like this and their loyalty should not be questioned by the idiot fringe who would frankly line up to buy snake oil if given a chance. Let's not forget they will be the same fans who stab 'Soundbite' in the back when he's booted out.
It is not wrong to demand the truth. It is our right. This is democracy.
Facts are;-
1)Current business model loses several million a year as we get crap crowds and thus low income to pay the wages to give us a fighting chance staying in division
2)Directors approached McKay about this unique agreement
3)McKay now has a contract for 2 years and over transfer policy and Saunders can Veto anyone he does not want to come in
4)McKay is one the most high profile agents in the game and has some world superstars on his books
5)We only pay peanuts for the players with parent club paying upto 90% in some cases
6) We have won 3 games all year until Saunders was in charge
Whats not to understand?
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Facts are;-
1)Current business model loses several million a year as we get crap crowds and thus low income to pay the wages to give us a fighting chance staying in division
2)Directors approached McKay about this unique agreement
3)McKay now has a contract for 2 years and over transfer policy and Saunders can Veto anyone he does not want to come in
4)McKay is one the most high profile agents in the game and has some world superstars on his books
5)We only pay peanuts for the players with parent club paying upto 90% in some cases
6) We have won 3 games all year until Saunders was in charge
Whats not to understand?
As far as Im aware only No.6 is FACT.
Please provide hard evidence to support points 1 - 5.
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As has been pointed out already the Alliance meeting went into a lot of depth when JR explained how this had come about. The same story was given to the VSC Directors when we met with JR on the morning of the Crystal Palace game and which we subsequently reported on here, attracting a lot of criticism for doing so!
SO'D was offered players from Willie McKay on previous occasions at very little cost. He turned them down because he didn't like Willie McKay, not because the players weren't good enough, not because they weren't cheap enough, but because of SO'D's personal dislike of somebody. Those players then went on to much better things, we could have had them and made lots of money stabilising this club in the process.
Sean seemed to be a prickly kind of guy, and its no secret that TB wasn't a fan either. This would suggest to me that Sean had faults as well as his good points, whilst the club is winning and moving forward you can ignore those faults, but when the music stops you need to be in a good place, and Sean wasn't.
So, to answer the original point, the time-line went back a lot further than a couple of months, the seed was set a couple of years ago.
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Facts are;-
1)Current business model loses several million a year as we get crap crowds and thus low income to pay the wages to give us a fighting chance staying in division
2)Directors approached McKay about this unique agreement
3)McKay now has a contract for 2 years and over transfer policy and Saunders can Veto anyone he does not want to come in
4)McKay is one the most high profile agents in the game and has some world superstars on his books
5)We only pay peanuts for the players with parent club paying upto 90% in some cases
6) We have won 3 games all year until Saunders was in charge
Whats not to understand?
As far as Im aware only No.6 is FACT.
Please provide hard evidence to support points 1 - 5.
This is the club offical release .....think we are now getting somewhere are you saying the club are making all this up? Are you saying JR and Co are crooks? Come on lets be behaving you(As someone once said)!!!
This is what your saying is it not? Tell you what you get your men and demonstrate against the board if you think this and see how far it gets you?
Get f**kING REAL!
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Facts are;-
1)Current business model loses several million a year as we get crap crowds and thus low income to pay the wages to give us a fighting chance staying in division
2)Directors approached McKay about this unique agreement
3)McKay now has a contract for 2 years and over transfer policy and Saunders can Veto anyone he does not want to come in
4)McKay is one the most high profile agents in the game and has some world superstars on his books
5)We only pay peanuts for the players with parent club paying upto 90% in some cases
6) We have won 3 games all year until Saunders was in charge
Whats not to understand?
As far as Im aware only No.6 is FACT.
Please provide hard evidence to support points 1 - 5.
You only have to look at the accounts to verify fact No1. JR has stated there is a £3.6m shortfall this year.
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Facts are;-
1)Current business model loses several million a year as we get crap crowds and thus low income to pay the wages to give us a fighting chance staying in division
2)Directors approached McKay about this unique agreement
3)McKay now has a contract for 2 years and over transfer policy and Saunders can Veto anyone he does not want to come in
4)McKay is one the most high profile agents in the game and has some world superstars on his books
5)We only pay peanuts for the players with parent club paying upto 90% in some cases
6) We have won 3 games all year until Saunders was in charge
Whats not to understand?
As far as Im aware only No.6 is FACT.
Please provide hard evidence to support points 1 - 5.
You only have to look at the accounts to verify fact No1. JR has stated there is a £3.6m shortfall this year.
I really believe if he saw it all in black and white he would still claim it was a forgery.
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Donnybob has hit the nail smack bang on the head, and that is the best post I've seen from anybody throughout this entire affair.
People should be allowed their opinions for or against this - it's what I've been trying to say for the past three days.
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Sean seemed to be a prickly kind of guy, and its no secret that TB wasn't a fan either. This would suggest to me that Sean had faults as well as his good points, whilst the club is winning and moving forward you can ignore those faults, but when the music stops you need to be in a good place, and Sean wasn't.
My position is simple - SOD did a great job while he was here and should always be remembered appropriately as one of our top three managers ever. We now have new management which has my full support, and a new approach on which I will reserve judgement until we see how it succeeds or not.
In one issue I disagree with Donnybob (who I respect very highly) in that IMHO this is not a full blown democracy. In practice it is closer to a private business run by those that put money in. I know the VSC contributes, but not a huge percentage monetary wise. However of course all businesses need to be very careful and should listen to their customer base, who can choose whether to continue or discontinue their patronage.
One comment I will make is that the above quoted statement could have been written word for word (apart from the TB part) when Dave Penney left. I don't think many would now question the decision to remove him, despite his achievements. Let's see how everything pans out and give our support to the club in the meantime.
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This is the club offical release .....think we are now getting somewhere are you saying the club are making all this up? Are you saying JR and Co are crooks? Come on lets be behaving you(As someone once said)!!!
This is what your saying is it not? Tell you what you get your men and demonstrate against the board if you think this and see how far it gets you?
Get f**kING REAL!
Is there any chance you could even be remotely civil and discuss the issues like an adult instead of throwing your toys out your pram everytime anyway disagrees with you?
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Let's see how everything pans out and give our support to the club in the meantime.
Having considered this over the last few days I think I'm going to do the same as you Dutch. Still not comfortable as to our direction or our new public image but will grin and bear it, see how it pans out and pray my fears are not realised.
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Let's see how everything pans out and give our support to the club in the meantime.
Having considered this over the last few days I think I'm going to do the same as you Dutch. Still not comfortable as to our direction or our new public image but will grin and bear it, see how it pans out and pray my fears are not realised.
I accept this may back fire but the anger should be directed at the apathy of the public who support other local teams or an ST on sky.... hardly the board fault is it?
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Let's see how everything pans out and give our support to the club in the meantime.
Having considered this over the last few days I think I'm going to do the same as you Dutch. Still not comfortable as to our direction or our new public image but will grin and bear it, see how it pans out and pray my fears are not realised.
I accept this may back fire but the anger should be directed at the apathy of the public who support other local teams or an ST on sky.... hardly the board fault is it?
Blind Faith distorts the image!
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Let's see how everything pans out and give our support to the club in the meantime.
Having considered this over the last few days I think I'm going to do the same as you Dutch. Still not comfortable as to our direction or our new public image but will grin and bear it, see how it pans out and pray my fears are not realised.
I accept this may back fire but the anger should be directed at the apathy of the public who support other local teams or an ST on sky.... hardly the board fault is it?
Blind Faith distorts the image!
I am afraid that quote can be aimed at both sides of this debate though Filo.
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Let's see how everything pans out and give our support to the club in the meantime.
Having considered this over the last few days I think I'm going to do the same as you Dutch. Still not comfortable as to our direction or our new public image but will grin and bear it, see how it pans out and pray my fears are not realised.
I accept this may back fire but the anger should be directed at the apathy of the public who support other local teams or an ST on sky.... hardly the board fault is it?
Blind Faith distorts the image!
Blind faith???? I admit that it may fail? But how this is unprecedented so we dont know do we?
I can accept the point that morale could fall but what I cant accept is people says their some deception happening!!!
The facts are as stated and due to the club losing millions a year ....
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we dont have a choice really,but to see where this path takes us norfolk do we?
its the unknown that we are worried about,cutting the wage bill in half is no mean feat.
do we end up with 22 of mckays players on 2k a week and lose billy,stock,copps young kyle, oster, friend,need i go on.
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we dont have a choice really,but to see where this path takes us norfolk do we?
its the unknown that we are worried about,cutting the wage bill in half is no mean feat.
do we end up with 22 of mckays players on 2k a week and lose billy,stock,copps young kyle, oster, friend,need i go on.
We can only have 5 loan players in the squad so what would be the point in signing lots of players on loan?
Some people really haven't thought about this properly have they?
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As has been pointed out already the Alliance meeting went into a lot of depth when JR explained how this had come about. The same story was given to the VSC Directors when we met with JR on the morning of the Crystal Palace game and which we subsequently reported on here, attracting a lot of criticism for doing so!
SO'D was offered players from Willie McKay on previous occasions at very little cost. He turned them down because he didn't like Willie McKay, not because the players weren't good enough, not because they weren't cheap enough, but because of SO'D's personal dislike of somebody. Those players then went on to much better things, we could have had them and made lots of money stabilising this club in the process.
Sean seemed to be a prickly kind of guy, and its no secret that TB wasn't a fan either. This would suggest to me that Sean had faults as well as his good points, whilst the club is winning and moving forward you can ignore those faults, but when the music stops you need to be in a good place, and Sean wasn't.
So, to answer the original point, the time-line went back a lot further than a couple of months, the seed was set a couple of years ago.
Good info, SM. Past events take on a lot more relevance, seen in the present context.
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we dont have a choice really,but to see where this path takes us norfolk do we?
its the unknown that we are worried about,cutting the wage bill in half is no mean feat.
do we end up with 22 of mckays players on 2k a week and lose billy,stock,copps young kyle, oster, friend,need i go on.
We can only have 5 loan players in the squad so what would be the point in signing lots of players on loan?
Some people really haven't thought about this properly have they?
Including you it would appear (what a suprise) this only applies to loans from British clubs, we can have as many loans as we want from Europe, this is what Mckay wanted clearing with the FA if I have read that Daily Mail story correctly?
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we dont have a choice really,but to see where this path takes us norfolk do we?
its the unknown that we are worried about,cutting the wage bill in half is no mean feat.
do we end up with 22 of mckays players on 2k a week and lose billy,stock,copps young kyle, oster, friend,need i go on.
We can only have 5 loan players in the squad so what would be the point in signing lots of players on loan?
Some people really haven't thought about this properly have they?
Including you it would appear (what a suprise) this only applies to loans from British clubs, we can have as many loans as we want from Europe, this is what Mckay wanted clearing with the FA if I have read that Daily Mail story correctly?
and they can all play in the same game?
If that is correct then I stand corrected. If I am wrong I am man enough to admit it without having to add any childish comment.
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You mean like yaaaawn. :facepalm:
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Maybe I should have used a similar reply as an earlier poster did.
Please provide hard evidence to support that. :cry: :cry:
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Maybe I should have used a similar reply as an earlier poster did.
Ple
ase provide hard evidence to support that. :cry: :cry:
wellred it was just a question of,is that how its going to pan out,cutting £4m quid off the wages is a little more than belt tightening.
we shall hold our breath,i for one hope it all comes good.
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Maybe I should have used a similar reply as an earlier poster did.
Ple
ase provide hard evidence to support that. :cry: :cry:
wellred it was just a question of,is that how its going to pan out,cutting £4m quid off the wages is a little more than belt tightening.
we shall hold our breath,i for one hope it all comes good.
My reply wasn't aimed at you DR :)
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lol, like my name suggests.
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Does halving the wage bill mean we run at a profit?
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4-3 =1 hmmm seems like it.
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it should if at the mo it stands at £8m a year and the keepmoat 3 plug a shortfall of £3.7m this year (could be wrong on actual figures) they could well end up making a return on their outlay
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we dont have a choice really,but to see where this path takes us norfolk do we?
its the unknown that we are worried about,cutting the wage bill in half is no mean feat.
do we end up with 22 of mckays players on 2k a week and lose billy,stock,copps young kyle, oster, friend,need i go on.
We can only have 5 loan players in the squad so what would be the point in signing lots of players on loan?
Some people really haven't thought about this properly have they?
Including you it would appear (what a suprise) this only applies to loans from British clubs, we can have as many loans as we want from Europe, this is what Mckay wanted clearing with the FA if I have read that Daily Mail story correctly?
and they can all play in the same game?
If that is correct then I stand corrected. If I am wrong I am man enough to admit it without having to add any childish comment.
I think we are all waiting so see the actual details and how all this is going to work. But current rules are you can only have 7 loan players per season. Willie Mckay has 638 players on his books, why would he bother with a plan that profiles only 7 of them for 3 months? 2 could get injured, 4 rubbish, so he only makes money from one. They are not registered to play in England, so when Rovers register them, its not a loan as far as the FA is concerned. Therefore he can bring over as many as he likes, and play as many as he likes, hence them only being here for 3 months, thats long enough to see if they are any good and flog em on, or long enough to see they are not - so send em back and get some more. So instead of 7 we get 21, and Wille trebles his chances of making money. Thats my take on it, as I said in the opening sentence, we are all waiting to see what the actual details are.
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There is something I don't get here.
We are told Mackay is in control of transfers, Saunders has a veto.
The normal approach is for the manager to be given a budget to spend as he thinks best, signing players to fit the pattern of play he wants to follow.
Does it work the other way as well? Can Saunders go out and sign a player without going through Mackay, because if not then Mackay holds all the aces. If Saunders cannot say to Mackay \"No Willie, the lad you want to bring in is not right for Rovers, I want to spend the money on this player instead. I know he is not one of your clients, but imo he is a better option for us\".
Who is the key decision maker in all this?
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I suppose the most worrying bit about all this is what happens if DS wants to bring in a player from another club who isn't on Mackays books?
What I find hard to swallow is the fact that DS can ONLY pick players offered to him by Mackay.....
It's just a strange set of circumstances and leaves DS no more than a coach, not a proper manager of a football team. In all the press going back to the year dot, all teams who have adopted the approach of never giving their manager control over the players he picks for the team all end up no-where. I defy anyone to name a team who have won anything with a bunch of players that the manager was forced to accept?
It could shake up modern football, or it could lead to a desperate football team from South Yorkshire getting into real trouble and spiralling down the leagues. And think about this - which \"premiership class players\" would want to ply their trade in the shop window that is league one? Not many........
I can accept that the club operates on a deficit but that is just the way of 90% of modern football clubs, it's a rich mans toy now. I also appreciate that the board don't have to spend one penny on the club, but other clubs are a little more effective in finding good investors who want to take a gamble on pumping money into a club to try and get it up the leagues. If being a director of DRFC doesn't require more than £5,000 a year (ie Stewart Highfield, going by the accounts) then a damn sight more people could put their hats into the ring surely? What are the terms and conditions of being a Rovers director? Pay a little bit, when you can?
I just think there should be a more aggressive approach to getting real benefactors on board to help JR instead of the deadwood of Highfield and his ilk. For a man of his cash to be paying five grand is quite honestly ridiculous. Let's face it, most of us on here, should we have his money, would gladly give many times that amount to the club and be happy doing it!! So why don't they? What's stopping them?
People go on about \"being a true fan\" and all the emotional stuff that goes with it. WE laugh at Abramovich and the Saudis at Man C, but they have shown more loyalty and more \"true support\" to their teams than our board (excepting JR) have ever done. And that, my little minions, is the difference between a successful football club and Doncaster Rovers right now.
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As has been pointed out already the Alliance meeting went into a lot of depth when JR explained how this had come about. The same story was given to the VSC Directors when we met with JR on the morning of the Crystal Palace game and which we subsequently reported on here, attracting a lot of criticism for doing so!
SO'D was offered players from Willie McKay on previous occasions at very little cost. He turned them down because he didn't like Willie McKay, not because the players weren't good enough, not because they weren't cheap enough, but because of SO'D's personal dislike of somebody. Those players then went on to much better things, we could have had them and made lots of money stabilising this club in the process.
Sean seemed to be a prickly kind of guy, and its no secret that TB wasn't a fan either. This would suggest to me that Sean had faults as well as his good points, whilst the club is winning and moving forward you can ignore those faults, but when the music stops you need to be in a good place, and Sean wasn't.
So, to answer the original point, the time-line went back a lot further than a couple of months, the seed was set a couple of years ago.
I'm not disputing that some of the above contains genuine fact, but remember you have been fed the story that one man wants you to believe, and the story that man wants you to distribute to get people on board.
If you sit back and ask yourself a few questions about what you've been told then there are some glaring holes in the logic.
If John Ryan had been riled by O'Driscoll's refusal to deal with McKay \"becasue he didn't like him\" then why did John make the public statement about Sean's job security in the week leading up to his dismissal? If John knew that Sean was stubborn, resistant and was upset that he let his personal relationship obstruct our success then would he have made the statement in the way he did? If John was fully on board with the McKay plan then the logic behind his statement does not add up. If John had been upset with Sean over a period of time and was keen to revolutionise our approach then would Sean not have been let go in the summer, on the back of a poor end to the season? Moreover would John have publicly (and through the VSC) endorsed our approach when he knew behind the scenes there was a better alternative that he wished his manager would utilise?
You know the reason you were given for the apparent change in heart in between the backing and 'sacking.' At the same time, we also know that McKay submitted his detailed proposal to the FA on 27th September, just three days after Sean was placed on gardening leave. We also now know that Dean Saunders was fully on board with the plan before he took the job, so before Sean was let go. Dean had also been given match DVDs of games to watch before taking the job. Do you honestly believe that this all happened in the 24-48 hours in which \"certain events\" led John to believe he was wrong to back the manager's approach and that a change was needed?
I certainly think you have a point over Terry Brammall playing a prominent role, but if you look at the timeline of events there are glaring holes in the glossed over story that was distributed to certain VSC and Alliance members.
I think this plan has been in the offing for a long time, defintely. I am less convinced of John Ryan's involevemnt in it as anything other than the public face whom the Doncaster public (rightly) trust and warm to.
The club is basically run from top to bottom by McKay now. Dick Watson is taking a more prominent role in justifying the decisions to the press. Some people might look at the situation and wonder if there has been a bit of a power shift....
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So it's a conspiracy now is it?
I can just see John Ryan reading this............infamy infamy they've all got it infamy.
:woot: :woot:
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First the bad news. I'll be out of the country on Tuesday night and if previous form is anything to go by that's bad news for the Rovers. They seem to lose every single game when I'm abroad. Let's hope that changes, eh?
But on to more serious matters. It's all well and good that the Wellred's of this world think it's fine to attack Rovers fans for having the temerity to have an opposing opinion to his/ theirs, tell them to f*** off to Leeds and so on, but it is patently clear that a great number of fans are harbouring grave concerns for the club. 'My way or no way' is not the answer and it helps no-one. It just makes the Wellred's look like pompous asses.
But this is not an excuse to ridicule him or even a desire to.
Like many I'm trying to understand what has happened and see beyond the confusion. I don't care who has spoken with whom, we have not been told the truth yet. Not by a country mile.
So I lay awake last night trying to put a finger on what was bothering me most. The answer came a little clearer when I tried to apply a timeline. Can anyone answer me one simple question. When did this whole shenanigans begin?
I'm sure many thought it was Ryan's remarkable U-turn. I did, until I began wondering when this wild and whacky plan was hatched by McKay. How long had he been planning and when did he approach the club with his master plan?
I don't for one second think that it was after JR's proclamation. Surely this has been on the cards for months. I'll gamble my life savings on the fact that it was proposed to SOD weeks before the story broke. I'd gamble some of the senior players were briefed, too.
I'm guessing it went against every principle in SOD's character and he will have voiced strong opinions against the gamble. I cannot imagine he would accept for a moment that an agent could be telling him who would be sold and who might be added to his squad.
Somewhere between the period when he was told and the day he left he was issued with an ultimatum - buy in or ship out.
I'm sure it will have had an impact on team morale, performances and results. After all, the players had great respect for SOD when you listen back to their interviews.
Would it not make sense during the same period for McKay to line up his best mate. He told us he's here to make money and obviously he would do rather well out of the club signing up one of his clients.
What the club could not afford was SOD going public on why/ how he was being levered out. What better way than to put him on gardening leave rather than to rip up his contract and pay compensation?
I'm truly sorry, but for all JR's eagerness to jump into the limelight at the drop of a hat, he has been very ecconomical with the truth. By that, I'm not saying he lied, just didn't share the whole truth.
In the meantime, negotiations have been ongoing with the authorities seeking permission for McKay to control the club's operations.
SOD remains gagged, on gardening leave. So far we've not heard a single word from him and he certainly is the one person who holds the key to what went off.
I'm guessing, based on recent events, that he was told to slash the wage budget. I don't believe for a moment that he had no interest in youth development. I imagine he would have been told something along the lines of take your pick, have a youth team and lose Billy to pay for it. To which he'll have said 'I'm not interested, thanks'. Easy to twist quotes, eh?
I'd love a meeting with JR and one with SOD, too. I'd love to get to the bottom of what has really gone off because no-one so far has been brave enough to contradict, to confront and to ask the really difficult questions. It's been like throwing sprats to seals - arf, arf, arf... The real story is still out there.
Instead of a clean break we have a stench hanging round the club. We have those who would follow a muck cart convinced it would lead them to the roses attacking other fans who hold different opinions to their own. Ryan's donkeys I call them. Give them a carrot and you can lead them anywhere.
Diarra will sign this week, we're told. Like all the others we've been linked with. Well, let's hope he's lining up on Saturday, if not Tuesday. Otherwise it's just hyperbole and bull****. Two players don't make a revolution and it won't take us to the Premiership (which seems further away every day).
Sounds like our stellar signings had an off day yesterday, by the way.
Intelligent fans should be raising questions on forums like this and their loyalty should not be questioned by the idiot fringe who would frankly line up to buy snake oil if given a chance. Let's not forget they will be the same fans who stab 'Soundbite' in the back when he's booted out.
It is not wrong to demand the truth. It is our right. This is democracy.
If you had been an Alliance member and gone to the meeting with John Ryan last week maybe you would have heard a bit more about what exactly happend and why. You would have also heard from the Manager about how HE wants to run things at the club.
But then again certain people refuse to believe anything that was said so what would have been the point.
Well said , it's amazing how people who should be supporting the club just seem to want to do it down. then say they are thinking of the true football fans etc What do they think other clubs like Cardiff last season to name but one did with Bellamy & the rest . All thats different is that a small club like ours has managed to get an sole agent to help us get players of the quality we would have no chance of getting in a month of Sundays, on the cheap as well !
Whilst these few negative voices post regularly on here and think that the majority of fans who don't actually post agree with them, well i for one don't. Some of these posters don't even go to games stating that they aren't paying £27 to watch the Rovers. but by buying a season ticket the price works out at £19.13 a game but they will have an excuse not to pay this as well. What are a responsible board to do let us sink into the conference again ? or come up with a clever plan to help us maintain our Championship status. Why do these not attenders of games think their opinion counts for anything .
We should get behind our new manager who has the final say on transfers , just like clubs higher up the pyramid who use director of football to identify players. I like what DS has done so far at the club , people must have short selective memories to want the club to continue in the way it was doing before the change of manager.
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As has been pointed out already the Alliance meeting went into a lot of depth when JR explained how this had come about. The same story was given to the VSC Directors when we met with JR on the morning of the Crystal Palace game and which we subsequently reported on here, attracting a lot of criticism for doing so!
SO'D was offered players from Willie McKay on previous occasions at very little cost. He turned them down because he didn't like Willie McKay, not because the players weren't good enough, not because they weren't cheap enough, but because of SO'D's personal dislike of somebody. Those players then went on to much better things, we could have had them and made lots of money stabilising this club in the process.
Sean seemed to be a prickly kind of guy, and its no secret that TB wasn't a fan either. This would suggest to me that Sean had faults as well as his good points, whilst the club is winning and moving forward you can ignore those faults, but when the music stops you need to be in a good place, and Sean wasn't.
So, to answer the original point, the time-line went back a lot further than a couple of months, the seed was set a couple of years ago.
I'm not disputing that some of the above contains genuine fact, but remember you have been fed the story that one man wants you to believe, and the story that man wants you to distribute to get people on board.
If you sit back and ask yourself a few questions about what you've been told then there are some glaring holes in the logic.
If John Ryan had been riled by O'Driscoll's refusal to deal with McKay \"becasue he didn't like him\" then why did John make the public statement about Sean's job security in the week leading up to his dismissal? If John knew that Sean was stubborn, resistant and was upset that he let his personal relationship obstruct our success then would he have made the statement in the way he did? If John was fully on board with the McKay plan then the logic behind his statement does not add up. If John had been upset with Sean over a period of time and was keen to revolutionise our approach then would Sean not have been let go in the summer, on the back of a poor end to the season? Moreover would John have publicly (and through the VSC) endorsed our approach when he knew behind the scenes there was a better alternative that he wished his manager would utilise?
You know the reason you were given for the apparent change in heart in between the backing and 'sacking.' At the same time, we also know that McKay submitted his detailed proposal to the FA on 27th September, just three days after Sean was placed on gardening leave. We also now know that Dean Saunders was fully on board with the plan before he took the job, so before Sean was let go. Dean had also been given match DVDs of games to watch before taking the job. Do you honestly believe that this all happened in the 24-48 hours in which \"certain events\" led John to believe he was wrong to back the manager's approach and that a change was needed?
I certainly think you have a point over Terry Brammall playing a prominent role, but if you look at the timeline of events there are glaring holes in the glossed over story that was distributed to certain VSC and Alliance members.
I think this plan has been in the offing for a long time, defintely. I am less convinced of John Ryan's involevemnt in it as anything other than the public face whom the Doncaster public (rightly) trust and warm to.
The club is basically run from top to bottom by McKay now. Dick Watson is taking a more prominent role in justifying the decisions to the press. Some people might look at the situation and wonder if there has been a bit of a power shift....
Some fantastic points there, Jonathan and put across very well. Like I have said in another thread, how much influence does WM have? If he is involving Victoria Beckham in Doncaster Rovers in one way or another, then he is having more influence than we are led to believe?
I will back this initiative for now, but just how much can we take/believe?
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Jonathan,
That's a long post to say you disagree and that we shouldn't take JR's statement as fact. To be honest my post doesn't have any glaring holes in it at all, you just have a different opinion and my version doesn't fit with yours.
But it's not my version, it's JR's and its Willie McKay's as well if you read the statements he's made. It's also the version that Dean Saunders gave as well when he was interviewed.
I never said JR was riled by Sean's refusal to do business with WM, you did. I never even said that JR was upset about it either, I just mentioned that as a consideration. Therefore there was no reason for JR not to support his manager when he did, nor was there reason to dismiss him in the summer. You are the one (not the only person) who is assuming that this plan was a long time coming and was being worked on behind the scenes, it wasn't. JR said it wasn't and WM supported that as well. So when JR backed his Manager on the Tuesday (not reported until the Wednesday is my understanding too) he was fully behind him, a meeting the following day, Wednesday, a plan was put to him that would revolutionise the way that DRFC does business. JR and DW then agree, SOD is then told, DS is invited in for an interview late on the Thursday and he is given the job later that evening. He stays in the hotel watching DVD's and takes training on the Friday. All clear?
By the way I'm not giving my opinion here, nor peddling something somebody wants me too, I'm just reporting exactly what I was told on two separate occasions when I was in the audience so to speak. Anybody who was at the Alliance meeting, probably numbered around 70 or so, will support anything I have written here.
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Jonathan,
That's a long post to say you disagree and that we shouldn't take JR's statement as fact. To be honest my post doesn't have any glaring holes in it at all, you just have a different opinion and my version doesn't fit with yours.
But it's not my version, it's JR's and its Willie McKay's as well if you read the statements he's made. It's also the version that Dean Saunders gave as well when he was interviewed.
I never said JR was riled by Sean's refusal to do business with WM, you did. I never even said that JR was upset about it either, I just mentioned that as a consideration. Therefore there was no reason for JR not to support his manager when he did, nor was there reason to dismiss him in the summer. You are the one (not the only person) who is assuming that this plan was a long time coming and was being worked on behind the scenes, it wasn't. JR said it wasn't and WM supported that as well. So when JR backed his Manager on the Tuesday (not reported until the Wednesday is my understanding too) he was fully behind him, a meeting the following day, Wednesday, a plan was put to him that would revolutionise the way that DRFC does business. JR and DW then agree, SOD is then told, DS is invited in for an interview late on the Thursday and he is given the job later that evening. He stays in the hotel watching DVD's and takes training on the Friday. All clear?
By the way I'm not giving my opinion here, nor peddling something somebody wants me too, I'm just reporting exactly what I was told on two separate occasions when I was in the audience so to speak. Anybody who was at the Alliance meeting, probably numbered around 70 or so, will support anything I have written here.
Fair play, I'm not disputing anything you've said or reported in good faith and nature. You are right, though, I don't believe certain parts of it and that's my right (something I know you are not disputing either!)
I apologise for paraphrasing some of what you've written, although I stand by my points and questions. They aren't directed at you, though, they're directed at the situation.
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My only problem is the last time someone tried making a profit out of Doncaster Rovers we had to dig our nails in deep and hang onto our very own existance.
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If you had been an Alliance member and gone to the meeting with John Ryan last week maybe you would have heard a bit more about what exactly happend and why. You would have also heard from the Manager about how HE wants to run things at the club.
But then again certain people refuse to believe anything that was said so what would have been the point.
I rarely post on here and I don't want to get into the SOD v Saunders debate. My personal viewpoint is that I was fully behind O'Driscoll and didn't want him to go but I also always said I'd back a new manager whoever he was and give him a decent chance and Saunders so far has not disappointed. I wanted to make that clear before I say what I want to say
I was at the Alliance meeting on Thursday and I appreciate what was said, I thought Saunders made some excellent points about how he intends to manage the team. But I can't say the same about John Ryan, I thought he didn't come across that well, he seemed edgy. Obviously I've listened to a lot of his radio interviews and been present a few times when he's spoken about the club and to me he didn't seem the same. This is not a criticim of him or his motives etc just an observation
I wasn't even overly concerned about McKay's involvement until I read the Mail article. To me the worrying thing is that an agent suddenly has complete control over all transfer dealings at a club, and I wasn't impressed with the 'they have no fanbase' We know we have a small fanbase but does that mean the 5,000 STH count for nothing
I think there are quite a few Rovers fans who are concerned, that doesn't mean they are negative, they care about the club
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If you listened to football heaven the night John spoke to Seth, (the night before Sean left) when asked about, if Sean still had the safest job in football, John was very hesitant, it was a very shaky \"well well yeah\" I am almost convinced that Seth knew , as later in the show he and Keith Edwards made a big deal of it and said when you get backed like that you can expect the sack the next day.
Also jr stating on more than one occasion that their has been a power shift in south Yorkshire , and we are in a prime position to take advantage of it, well we are now in the same position as sheff u, a new manager who has to cut the wage bill by half ! With the added bonus of a new chairman/director/manager/agent in one.
Vixdrfc, it does not matter how HE wants to run things at the club, WM has the say on who comes in( and out?) gets picked and plays.
I've been a fan for 27 years and have always wondered when the kick in the balls would come, we've had to good for to long. I hope it all works out and the power people remember it might be their money but it's our club!
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i cant be bothered to read all the 3 pages so i will put this and shoot me down if it has been said i think the board went to SOD with the mackay deal and SOD went :cry: and said no i want full control of the transfers. Then you know what happend after that. ???? :rtid: :chair:
First the bad news. I'll be out of the country on Tuesday night and if previous form is anything to go by that's bad news for the Rovers. They seem to lose every single game when I'm abroad. Let's hope that changes, eh?
But on to more serious matters. It's all well and good that the Wellred's of this world think it's fine to attack Rovers fans for having the temerity to have an opposing opinion to his/ theirs, tell them to f*** off to Leeds and so on, but it is patently clear that a great number of fans are harbouring grave concerns for the club. 'My way or no way' is not the answer and it helps no-one. It just makes the Wellred's look like pompous asses.
But this is not an excuse to ridicule him or even a desire to.
Like many I'm trying to understand what has happened and see beyond the confusion. I don't care who has spoken with whom, we have not been told the truth yet. Not by a country mile.
So I lay awake last night trying to put a finger on what was bothering me most. The answer came a little clearer when I tried to apply a timeline. Can anyone answer me one simple question. When did this whole shenanigans begin?
I'm sure many thought it was Ryan's remarkable U-turn. I did, until I began wondering when this wild and whacky plan was hatched by McKay. How long had he been planning and when did he approach the club with his master plan?
I don't for one second think that it was after JR's proclamation. Surely this has been on the cards for months. I'll gamble my life savings on the fact that it was proposed to SOD weeks before the story broke. I'd gamble some of the senior players were briefed, too.
I'm guessing it went against every principle in SOD's character and he will have voiced strong opinions against the gamble. I cannot imagine he would accept for a moment that an agent could be telling him who would be sold and who might be added to his squad.
Somewhere between the period when he was told and the day he left he was issued with an ultimatum - buy in or ship out.
I'm sure it will have had an impact on team morale, performances and results. After all, the players had great respect for SOD when you listen back to their interviews.
Would it not make sense during the same period for McKay to line up his best mate. He told us he's here to make money and obviously he would do rather well out of the club signing up one of his clients.
What the club could not afford was SOD going public on why/ how he was being levered out. What better way than to put him on gardening leave rather than to rip up his contract and pay compensation?
I'm truly sorry, but for all JR's eagerness to jump into the limelight at the drop of a hat, he has been very ecconomical with the truth. By that, I'm not saying he lied, just didn't share the whole truth.
In the meantime, negotiations have been ongoing with the authorities seeking permission for McKay to control the club's operations.
SOD remains gagged, on gardening leave. So far we've not heard a single word from him and he certainly is the one person who holds the key to what went off.
I'm guessing, based on recent events, that he was told to slash the wage budget. I don't believe for a moment that he had no interest in youth development. I imagine he would have been told something along the lines of take your pick, have a youth team and lose Billy to pay for it. To which he'll have said 'I'm not interested, thanks'. Easy to twist quotes, eh?
I'd love a meeting with JR and one with SOD, too. I'd love to get to the bottom of what has really gone off because no-one so far has been brave enough to contradict, to confront and to ask the really difficult questions. It's been like throwing sprats to seals - arf, arf, arf... The real story is still out there.
Instead of a clean break we have a stench hanging round the club. We have those who would follow a muck cart convinced it would lead them to the roses attacking other fans who hold different opinions to their own. Ryan's donkeys I call them. Give them a carrot and you can lead them anywhere.
Diarra will sign this week, we're told. Like all the others we've been linked with. Well, let's hope he's lining up on Saturday, if not Tuesday. Otherwise it's just hyperbole and bull****. Two players don't make a revolution and it won't take us to the Premiership (which seems further away every day).
Sounds like our stellar signings had an off day yesterday, by the way.
Intelligent fans should be raising questions on forums like this and their loyalty should not be questioned by the idiot fringe who would frankly line up to buy snake oil if given a chance. Let's not forget they will be the same fans who stab 'Soundbite' in the back when he's booted out.
It is not wrong to demand the truth. It is our right. This is democracy.
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If you had been an Alliance member and gone to the meeting with John Ryan last week maybe you would have heard a bit more about what exactly happend and why. You would have also heard from the Manager about how HE wants to run things at the club.
But then again certain people refuse to believe anything that was said so what would have been the point.
I rarely post on here and I don't want to get into the SOD v Saunders debate. My personal viewpoint is that I was fully behind O'Driscoll and didn't want him to go but I also always said I'd back a new manager whoever he was and give him a decent chance and Saunders so far has not disappointed. I wanted to make that clear before I say what I want to say
I was at the Alliance meeting on Thursday and I appreciate what was said, I thought Saunders made some excellent points about how he intends to manage the team. But I can't say the same about John Ryan, I thought he didn't come across that well, he seemed edgy. Obviously I've listened to a lot of his radio interviews and been present a few times when he's spoken about the club and to me he didn't seem the same. This is not a criticim of him or his motives etc just an observation
I wasn't even overly concerned about McKay's involvement until I read the Mail article. To me the worrying thing is that an agent suddenly has complete control over all transfer dealings at a club, and I wasn't impressed with the 'they have no fanbase' We know we have a small fanbase but does that mean the 5,000 STH count for nothing
I think there are quite a few Rovers fans who are concerned, that doesn't mean they are negative, they care about the club
I think it is pretty clear who is pulling the strings in the Boardroom now, and it isn't John Ryan. Added to which, Willie McKay's appointment as a kind of de facto \"Director of Football means that JR has no involvement with transfers or negotiations. He will probably remain the public face of the club, but he's lost a lot of power. It must be deeply disappointing to him, as I'm sure it is something he wanted to avoid.