Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Keith Myath on January 24, 2012, 03:17:58 pm
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click here (http://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/page/News/0,,10329~2587350,00.html)
Must admit, thought it was just us moaning but looking at the footage, and talking to the lads at work (no rovers fans) everyone cant believe the outcomes of both challenges.
Its only words from JR, and nowt will change but its vindicated me that were done wrong in both situations. Yellow at best for Baye (possibly Red had he been atacking a player straight on), and a definate Straight red for the Bristol player from all 9 of us in our office.
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For me they both deserve the Red, because the City player had no intention of going for the ball, it's similar to Elokobi against Coppinger which resulted in Elokobi being sent off. But as for Beye's both feet have left the floor so going by the rule book it's got to be a straight red can't complain about that one tbh.
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\"We reproduce stills and video action in good faith to allow you to make up your mind about the incidents\"
The DRFC propaganda machine in full working order. :laugh:
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Don't know how it's propaganda if lot's of evidence is made available? :blush:
Surely that's just facts?
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No word of a lie, a red & white plane flying over Balby has just dropped leaflets showing the pictures of both incidents. With \"Which side are you on?\" in big bold letters.
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This is pathetic.
I honestly can't believe the way the club have reacted over it. Its embarrassing!
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'Challenge' on Copps looks horrible. Beye's looks like a red but irrespective of that why is an international CB going to ground there ??
If/when FA see this can they take action against us....they don't like criticism of their refs do they ?
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There is no doubt that the Copps incident is horrible and deserved a red but why is the club defending Beye? It's not like two footed tackles haven't been in the news a lot recently already.
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There is no doubt that the Copps incident is horrible and deserved a red but why is the club defending Beye? It's not like two footed tackles haven't been in the news a lot recently already.
It wasnt two footed, hence the argument, his other leg is tooked up underneath him, its the lunge and angle seen by the officials that has got him the red, technically the other player does the same.
The other player wasnt even touched and isnt looking for a free kick just a corner, that proves a point that letters of the law instead of common sense made the decision to send of Beye.
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This is pathetic.
I honestly can't believe the way the club have reacted over it. Its embarrassing!
Is it Beye was way in front of the Brizzle player preventing a corner that much is obvious from the 'still' and NOT two footed have some folk got eyes painted on ? There is no defense for the headbutt on Coppinger. You should be seething after all we're only little Donny and if folk want to push us about both on the pitch and on the Terraces ..........it's perfectly ok ? :huh:
Yes the 3 points have gone but I'm sick and tired of our team getting the shitty end of the stick, time after time after time. :angry:
What's embarrassing Jenny ? Is it the fact that have had enough of getting lumps kicked out of us each and every week!!
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Is it Beye was way in front of the Brizzle player preventing a corner that much is obvious from the 'still' and NOT two footed have some folk got eyes painted on ? There is no defense for the headbutt on Coppinger. You should be seething after all we're only little Donny and if folk want to push us about both on the pitch and on the Terraces ..........it's perfectly ok ?
To quote the sage Omar Little: \"It's all in the game yo\".
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If it was the other way round we would have all agreed it was a red card
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The Copps one is a shocker. Aboslutely disgusting. Just shows how the laws of the game goes through \"trends\" in terms of what referees clamp down on. 5-10 years ago they were jumping all over challenges like that.
As for the Beye one I'm not convinced as the angle isn't the best for seeing how close Beye gets to the player. Whilst I won't say definite red I can see why the referee has drawn that assumption. What jumps out though is the lino - whats he signalling? It can't be a throw but he doesn't give it much of a \"wave\" to signal a foul. Without sounds I can't judge who gave what first as it looks like the lino looks over to the ref and then half heartedly gives the foul to make it look like they're in agreement.
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How can anyone not say that the Copps incident didn't deserve at least a yellow card must be blind.
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Well if we didn't look like cocks before, we definitely do now.
Are going to do this every time the referee makes a mistake?
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from the slow motion replay the fact is that Baye not only made contact with the ball first but at the time he made that contact the opponent was a full stride away from reaching the ball .. the opponent was not in possession .The only thing that is pathetic with respect ... is the decision of the referee .
The ref was way behind the play whereas the linesman was only 2 yards away and did NOT raise his flag for a foul.
There is technology available to football to review significant actions like the two we are discussing but whilst the game is administered at the top by officials as aloof and resistant to change as Blatter .. serious mistakes and injustices will continue to go uncorrected and the ill feelings that generates increase
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from the slow motion replay the fact is that Baye not only made contact with the ball first but at the time he made that contact the opponent was a full stride away from reaching the ball .. the opponent was not in possession .
there's also the fact that by the time there is any contact beye is on the floor, not in the air and is therefore in control of the tackle.
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from the slow motion replay the fact is that Baye not only made contact with the ball first but at the time he made that contact the opponent was a full stride away from reaching the ball .. the opponent was not in possession .The only thing that is pathetic with respect ... is the decision of the referee .
The ref was way behind the play whereas the linesman was only 2 yards away and did NOT raise his flag for a foul.
There is technology available to football to review significant actions like the two we are discussing but whilst the game is administered at the top by officials as aloof and resistant to change as Blatter .. serious mistakes and injustices will continue to go uncorrected and the ill feelings that generates increase
I think he does indicate a foul, just not very clearly - 2 shakes of the flag at most but I can't tell if he's the one giving it or just backing up the referees decision. It looks like he's looking at the ref before he does whatever he does. Theres no way he is indicating a throw surely?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16702644.stm
someone else not happy.
From some small team in Manchester
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Would we be considering legal action if we won the game and were not in a relegation fight?
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The other player wasnt even touched and isnt looking for a free kick just a corner, that proves a point that letters of the law instead of common sense made the decision to send of Beye.
Agreed.
What was more dangerous, Beye's one footed lunge to block the ball or Lewis Dunk's lunge at Billy's leg when he had no chance of reaching the ball? What makes matters worse, is the ref was right on the spot for Dunk's challenge !
The thing is the inconsistencies are not going to stop whilst refs do not have the competence to interpret intent or carelessness. The refs are under so much pressure to 'act' and very few are confident enough to know when to keep their cards in their pocket. The only 2 refs that spring to mind are Mark Halsey and the lad from Rotherham.
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Thing is, surely on a decision that happens 'x' amount of yards away from the ref (with the players back to him), right in front of the linesman, SURELY the linesman should be consulted. He had the best view of it, didn't flag for it, and wasn't even consulted.
I wasn't there but after looking at the footage it appears Beye goes in at some speed, and both feet are off the ground at the beginning of the tackle, so I can understand why the ref would look at acting on it, and possibly even give a red... But to be that far away, and for him to not even consult with the Lino who hadn't flagged, and who would be able to assist in the correct decision I think is slack!!
The copps' headbutt is just disgusting, and there is no place in football for that. I understand it is (and should always remain) a contact sport, and yeah, genuine accidents will happen, but there was no attempt at the ball and the result is evident of that... Vile! This is one that the Ref' DEFINATELY has no excuse over!
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May be as in Tennis and Cricket they have a review system.
Perhaps in football, we should think about introducing it. Perhaps if each manager has a maximum number of reviews which can be used per half or match, then it may even take some pressure off the refs.
It seems to have calmed tennis players down and if footballers know there's a chance their action's or reactions will be reviewed then we may not get players jumping all over the refs.
The ref can take more time over the decision, when challenged, and with the 4th official review the TV evidence.
Food for thought.
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Well if we didn't look like cocks before, we definitely do now.
Are going to do this every time the referee makes a mistake?
No just on the decisions that cost us £3m and put us in league one
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I've just watched the footage on DROS and I feel physically sick at what happened to Coppinger. How he even got up and continued playing is a miracle.
I don't care what other clubs say about us. I don't feel like we're a laughing stock by making a complaint about this incident. I'm sure if neutral fans of other clubs watch it they would come to the same conclusion. BC fans will say anything to defend their player.
As for Beye I think at worst it would have been a yellow, but not quite sure even that was deserved as the closet Official didn't feel anything was warrented.
:rtid: :scarf: :rtid:
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Well if we didn't look like cocks before, we definitely do now.
Are going to do this every time the referee makes a mistake?
No just on the decisions that cost us £3m and put us in league one
If we get relegated it's our own fault.
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Yannick Bolaise is looking at the ball as he goes in for the challenge, it is very clumsy, but it looks a lot worse than he is, we all know Coppinger is on the fragile side and these sorts of fouls look worse than the reality of it; he dives in for a header late and connects with Coppinger. I think a yellow would be fair, I can even understand the red. What possessed the referee to not give a card I don't know, but it happens in football. I think what makes the situation worse is Bolaise just shurgs his shoulders as if he is innocent, had he bent down and comforted Coppinger we may not be having this conversation.
As for the Beye incident, the ball was moving with ferocious speed and so was the attacker. Beye, an experienced centre half misjudges the sitaution, had he slid for the ball and caught the player then no action would be given. Look at the referee's (slightly poor) positioning, his view will be slightly distorted from the camera angle we see. He cannot possibly judge the distant between the two and all he sees is a 50-50 challenge where Beye lunges off the ground, flying 2 feet through the air resulting in tripping up the player, regardless of how early or late he jumps, that is violent conduct half a second later he could have broken the guys legs. He has to go, had that been at the Keepmoat against Copps we would all be furious.
The only difference between that challenge and the Dunk challenge is that the ball was travelling towards where Dunk was heading, but Billy Sharp stook out his left leg to stop the ball getting to Dunk - who was already flying through the airc- and Sharp's leg was hooked. Both were clumsy challenge that have no place in the game today. Both were clear Red cards.
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Don't know how it's propaganda if lot's of evidence is made available? :blush:
Surely that's just facts?
... if it allows lots of people to have a proper gander at it then its er er ...
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Thing is Crofty, football is all about those half seconds. Half a second late in any challenge and you'll take the man not the ball.
Drawing comparisons between Beye's challenge and Dunk's is laughable. One is an experienced international who will have made hundreds if these challenges before, executing a perfectly timed block which he gets in cleanly, with the opponent then going over his leg. Yes he took off to gain ground, but was clearly on the floor for a good while before he made the challenge. That is red blooded physical and fair football.
The other was an inexperienced kid, totally misjudging (to be kind) the relative motion of ball and man and launching into a challenge that could have only resulted in a clean tackle if the ball had suddenly moved at right angles and Sharp had played musical statues. Absolutely no comparison whatsoever.
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Thing is Crofty, football is all about those half seconds. Half a second late in any challenge and you'll take the man not the ball.
Drawing comparisons between Beye's challenge and Dunk's is laughable. One is an experienced international who will have made hundreds if these challenges before, executing a perfectly timed block which he gets in cleanly, with the opponent then going over his leg. Yes he took off to gain ground, but was clearly on the floor for a good while before he made the challenge. That is red blooded physical and fair football.
The other was an inexperienced kid, totally misjudging (to be kind) the relative motion of ball and man and launching into a challenge that could have only resulted in a clean tackle if the ball had suddenly moved at right angles and Sharp had played musical statues. Absolutely no comparison whatsoever.
But in this season alone there have been many red cards for these challenges, he jumped off the ground to challenge for the ball on the floor, he didn't just slide in, he lunged, one foot or not it is absolutley terrible.
Many people have made the comparison between the two, as you say they are very different challenges but both are still lunges for a ball on the floor, one caused huge damage (and didn't get no card) one was very lucky not to (and was sent off)...
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Beye's challenge is more similar to the challenges by Kompany and Johnson and certainly not Dunk's.
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Beye lunges off the ground, flying 2 feet through the air
How many times does it need to be pointed out? It was n`t two footed, his trailing leg is tucked under his arse, he got to the ball before Skuse and was on the ground at the point of contact! if thats a red card, then every defender that throws himself in front of a shot to make a block should be red carded as well. The ref got it wrong and the lino abstained from making a decision, as usual!
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Not even going to bother watching it...pointless. As pointless as the Club putting it on line in the first place.
It has no influence on Beyes Red Card - justified or not, it has no influence on punishment for the guy who headbutted Copps.
Way things are going the FA will either fine us or issue some other sanction for our constant bitching and moaning about referees. Let it go FFS.
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Having watched the replay for Beye's tackle, and I'm not defending him for a minute as it was a reckless tackle, am I the only one noticing how the Bristol player has no control over the ball, Beye gets there first and the Bristol player goes into the side of Beye with his studs showing? Surely that's dangerous too?
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I just think \"How can you send off a player who gets to the ball first and then has the other player run into him?\". It's bizarre! It's like saying \"I'm running along thinking I'm going to kick you on the leg, but I won't go through with it. What's that, I'm getting sent off????!\"
Ridiculous. It's a man's game, no-one was hurt and to be honest, Beye got the ball to the extent the linesman awarded a throw in!! Things like this should be dealt with by consultation with the nearest official and then reviewed again after the match to decide any further punishment or to change the original decision. It's not asking much really is it and it's not rocket science!
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Yannick Bolaise is looking at the ball as he goes in for the challenge, it is very clumsy, but it looks a lot worse than he is, we all know Coppinger is on the fragile side and these sorts of fouls look worse than the reality of it; he dives in for a header late and connects with Coppinger. I think a yellow would be fair, I can even understand the red. What possessed the referee to not give a card I don't know, but it happens in football. I think what makes the situation worse is Bolaise just shurgs his shoulders as if he is innocent, had he bent down and comforted Coppinger we may not be having this conversation.
We all know that do we? A bloke who played for 15 minutes with a broken cheekbone, during which time he was getting from one end of the pitch to the other, creating a chance at one end, blocking at the other and not shirking tackles - I think the last i would call him is fragile. We have one or two 'fragile' players but Coppinger is one of the last I would put on the list, he gets kicked as much as anyone - but also puts in as many tackles as any of our forward players. Thats what I know.
What that photo doesnt show you are the angles, direction and timing, Coppinger has already headed the ball and the time and direction Bolasie is coming in at - he has no chance of getting it, its already gone and he is going straight for Coppinger.
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Beye lunges off the ground, flying 2 feet through the air
How many times does it need to be pointed out? It was n`t two footed, his trailing leg is tucked under his arse, he got to the ball before Skuse and was on the ground at the point of contact! if thats a red card, then every defender that throws himself in front of a shot to make a block should be red carded as well. The ref got it wrong and the lino abstained from making a decision, as usual!
Whether his legs were tucked or not, both feet left the ground and followed a motion of path similar to a projectile launched at 30 degrees inclined the the ground. Both feet left the ground for a ball that was moving along the floor.
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Sorry you're wrong on this one Crofty for the reasons pointed out by both Filo and BST, this is a contact sport , imo it was neither reckless or dangerous at the point of contact end of. That's what the lino clearly saw from a few yards away and that's certainly what I saw on the film. The referee merely responds to the crowd , at a distance , not the players of either side or the official in line with the incident.
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Sorry you're wrong on this one Crofty for the reasons pointed out by both Filo and BST, this is a contact sport , imo it was neither reckless or dangerous at the point of contact end of. That's what the lino clearly saw from a few yards away and that's certainly what I saw on the film. The referee merely responds to the crowd , at a distance , not the players of either side or the official in line with the incident.
I just think in the last few years they have cracked down on players leaving the ground when challenging for the ball on the ground, it wasn't a block as such it was an interception, one that was too close to another player. You have two ways of looking it:
Borderline dive that is half a second from danger - perfectly timed no action. Or;
A lunge with both feet off the ground (regardless if tucked or not) for a 50-50 where the ball is rolling along the floor - Red Card.
I can see both arguements and it clearly is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, my personal opinion is it was a red (from the refs view) but I agree had he seen it from a different angle he may have been more lenient.