Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: mjdgreg on February 10, 2013, 05:40:57 pm
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Flynn has inherited a hoof ball side. He is not a hoof ball manager. It is going to take time for the players to adapt to the new 'style'. I'm prepared to give him this time as I am pig sick of watching hoof ball. However I feel this adjustment will mean us falling away to mid-table obscurity this season.
He's stuck with hoof ball players at the moment and can only really turn it around during the close season when he can bring in his type of player. Unfortunately I don't think the fans will give him the time to turn it around next season. Another few bad results and you'll have all the usual suspects calling for his head.
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Funny how you were dead set against giving the last manager time to bring in his own team, eh.
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That wasn't his remit. He was supposed to keep us in the Championship with Willie's star footballers. The way he handled that whole situation meant he had absolutely no credibility whatsoever in my eyes.
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Usual suspects. Funniest thing I've ever heard.
You being the number 1 suspect cocker
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Usual suspects. Funniest thing I've ever heard.
You being the number 1 suspect cocker
I don't know how you work that one out. I'm quite happy for Flynn to be given until the end of next season as previously stated.
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As annoying as the orignal poster can be, there is an element of truth about the hoof ball Deano introduced. Its not pretty to watch,yes it can be effective in League 1, but IF we did get promoted we would need a complete re-build.
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As annoying as the orignal poster can be, there is an element of truth about the hoof ball Deano introduced. Its not pretty to watch,yes it can be effective in League 1, but IF we did get promoted we would need a complete re-build.
But how many teams football their way out of this division? It was coming along before he buggered off to Wolves, and you can't deny that. He even knew we'd need a rebuild, he said something along the lines of having to build a side for the division you're in.
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Southampton got promoted without having to resort to hoof ball. They then got another promotion the following year to the Premiership playing the same way with a lot of the same players. Go figure.
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Southampton got promoted without having to resort to hoof ball. They then got another promotion the following year to the Premiership playing the same way with a lot of the same players. Go figure.
I'm not saying no team ever gets promoted playing football. Very few do it, though.
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As annoying as the orignal poster can be, there is an element of truth about the hoof ball Deano introduced. Its not pretty to watch,yes it can be effective in League 1, but IF we did get promoted we would need a complete re-build.
But how many teams football their way out of this division? It was coming along before he buggered off to Wolves, and you can't deny that. He even knew we'd need a rebuild, he said something along the lines of having to build a side for the division you're in.
Its a case of getting the balance right though. Deano got us a big dominant back four,effective in this league and a big target man in Brown. Very little was done though in bringing in creative,footballing players. Not having a dig at him because he got us in a great position and i'm pretty sure his hands were tied.
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I'm not saying no team ever gets promoted playing football. Very few do it, though.
You could also add Doncaster Rovers to the list with Southampton that have managed to get out of League 1 playing proper football. Saunders is obviously a hoof ball merchant. If we had got promoted with him at the helm we'd have come straight back down. Far better to do an 'Adkins' and start as you mean to go on. I hope Flynn gets the time but suspect he won't.
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Southampton got promoted without having to resort to hoof ball. They then got another promotion the following year to the Premiership playing the same way with a lot of the same players. Go figure.
Are you ok??
They also spent a fortune, had a massive squad, a massive wage bill and massive gates.
Go figure
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Flynn's remit is/was to provide a seamless transition in carrying on what Deano left, hopefully winning promotion at the end. It is not his job to change the style of the team this season, hence him only been given a deal until the end of the season.
I was enjoying watching the team this season under Deano and was fairly confident of promotion under him. Now I'm not so confident after the latest unexpected setback and the other teams catching up. Unfortunately I have not seen the qualities that have got us this far in the last two games, we have not been clinical and have been rediculously open and sloppy in defence. I hope this is just a blip and not down to the manager's tactical changes and overconfidence in the team that he has inherited.
We need to get back to what we've been doing and cannot take for granted how much qualities such as organisation, discipline and determination have been the main reason that this group of players have done so well this season. That is what I want to see against Milton Keynes on Tuesday. Judging by by his post match interview I get the impression that Flynn knows this and knows how to put it right, so lets hope he does and we go on another good run like we have previously done this season following a setback.
I have no problem with a change in style so long as it's not in the middle of the season when we're going well and don't need to.
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Southampton got promoted without having to resort to hoof ball. They then got another promotion the following year to the Premiership playing the same way with a lot of the same players. Go figure.
Are you ok??
They also spent a fortune, had a massive squad, a massive wage bill and massive gates.
Go figure
I believe they had a £13m wage budget (funded by the Swiss billionaire) which is frankly a ridiculous budget at this level. Ours is supposedly high and it is what, just over £4m?
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The thing about playing pretty football is it's hard, and expensive. You don't just find players like Brian Stock and Richie Wellens on the street. There is value in the Saunders style of graft and organisation, obviously, since it got us top of the league. I also see people conveniently ignoring teams like Stoke, QPR, Wolves under McCarthy and many more who managed to get promoted into the Premiership and stay there using a similar style of play.
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Another totally baseless and stupid point from MadMick. We passed Orient off the park a couple of weeks ago with a team of footballers.
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I think the problem is...
That we are going through a little bad spell and that we'll come out better for it. The club need to get some more trophy polish in.
We need a new manager in the summer though. Everyone that knows me, knows it's not a knee-jerk reaction to results either, i said it from the start.
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I'm not saying no team ever gets promoted playing football. Very few do it, though.
You could also add Doncaster Rovers to the list with Southampton that have managed to get out of League 1 playing proper football. Saunders is obviously a hoof ball merchant. If we had got promoted with him at the helm we'd have come straight back down. Far better to do an 'Adkins' and start as you mean to go on. I hope Flynn gets the time but suspect he won't.
Erm no, cos he said, as I paraphrased, he'd build a side for the division he was in. Ergo, he'd have had another clearout and built a side that would have competed in the Championship.
As 'fenwa says, Flynn's remit is to take us up essentially. If he fails to do so, will you treat him in the same manner you did Saunders when he couldn't keep us up? oh.
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As 'fenwa says, Flynn's remit is to take us up essentially. If he fails to do so, will you treat him in the same manner you did Saunders when he couldn't keep us up? oh.
I've already said I'd give him another season. Look, it's going to be very difficult for him to achieve promotion this season. He's not a hoof ball merchant, so the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced he's going to struggle. It's only fair to let him have next season to be judged on after he's built his own 'football' team.
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Oh God. Who let this buffoon in this section again? Having destroyed off topic, are you going to let him do it in here too now?
BobG
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I'm not saying no team ever gets promoted playing football. Very few do it, though.
You could also add Swansea to the list. They've gone up the divisions playing the same style of football regardless and just look at them now. So I don't accept Mr Saunders view that you can only get promoted by playing hoof ball.
It is lunacy to build a side and then let it know that once it has gained promotion you are going to bring in lots of new players because you have done your job and are now to be disposed of.
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Oh God. Who let this buffoon in this section again? Having destroyed off topic, are you going to let him do it in here too now?
BobG
Agreed Bob G....tools like him ruin this site.
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I'm not saying no team ever gets promoted playing football. Very few do it, though.
You could also add Swansea to the list. They've gone up the divisions playing the same style of football regardless and just look at them now. So I don't accept Mr Saunders view that you can only get promoted by playing hoof ball.
It is lunacy to build a side and then let it know that once it has gained promotion you are going to bring in lots of new players because you have done your job and are now to be disposed of.
for fcuksake, I agree with you again. If only your political views werent so shit.
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Southampton got promoted without having to resort to hoof ball. They then got another promotion the following year to the Premiership playing the same way with a lot of the same players. Go figure.
I'm not saying no team ever gets promoted playing football. Very few do it, though.
The last time we were in this league, the difference in the end between the top 6 was the three who played good football (Forest, Swansea and us of course) and those who didn't (Leeds, Carlisle and Southend). That same season we also saw West Bromich, Stoke City and Hull City promoted from the Championship playing decent football. The reason is pretty simple; if you have a team who is made up of quality individuals who link up well together then the football they play on their day is fantastic, be it on the deck or over the top. Teams who don't either have the quality or the togetherness of the squad find themselves resorting to the much more ugly type of performances of backs to the wall, no nonsense defending and using a much more physical approach compared to a technical one, because (as we have seen this season) it can be very effective and put points on the board.
Now, I'm not saying our team should play football, because quite frankly only a handful of the squad actually can. Both McCombe and Jones are great headers of the ball but neither have looked brilliant with the ball at their feet and its been very rare they have started a good move. With the exception of Syers, and what we have seen of Fowler, our central midfield would also struggle playing that kind of football. Harper is a good passer of the ball, but it is usually the safer option rather than the attacking one, Keegan is a fantastic worker but he isn't going to pick out the perfect pass and then make the space to have it returned to him and to play it further up the pitch. Martin Woods, unfortunately seems to need a twenty yard radius of space to pick out the simplest of passes.
With the exception of Bennet, Coppinger and Cotterill I fear playing nice passing football would not be using our squad to its potential, the physical presence of Brown, Paynter and Hume (who ultimately we need to get the ball to if we want to win matches) demands an ugly approach to the game. I agree about the comment regarding getting the balance right. Our performances at home have been below par for where we are in the table and with that in mind I don't think we needed to continue everything that Saunders was doing, yes we were in a great position but we could have been doing better at home, against Leyton Orient we struggled to get out of second gear but we won efficiently, on Saturday we tried to add a bit more style to our football against a team who have been getting stronger as the season goes on and made the most of our mistakes (or the referee's, whichever you prefer).
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Footballing your way out of the Championship isn't the same as footballing your way out of League One. You don't get hacked to pieces most weeks in the Championship the way you do in League One.
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There is no problem other than it's just football. The dice throws up funny things, results, injuries, suspensions, poor pitches, confidence. So many factors involved.
I don't think our reaction to the Bury result was a good one but having said that, the game could still have gone either way. Just a bit of luck here or there can separate a good manager to one who's facing the sack. Walsall were never going to be any pushovers and I've no doubt they will cause even more damage to our rivals along the way.
Our injury list has reared it's ugly head however, if we were going to have a blip or wobble, I'd rather it be now instead of March time.
I have said before, the run in will throw up all sorts of funny results and the teams the twitch least will go up. I didn't think we would twitch but we have. Bournemouth will twitch at some point.
Tuesday's game psychologically could be a big one. Both teams have lost and it's likely that both will be a bit edgy. That's when Jones, Copps, Cotterill, Spurr, Brown should come in to their own because their standards are better than most in this league.
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What a pile of shite the OP is. We're not a hoofball team. From what I've seen, we seem well able to mix our game up. You can't say the same of life under SO'D.
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What a pile of shite the OP is. We're not a hoofball team. From what I've seen, we seem well able to mix our game up. You can't say the same of life under SO'D.
I love you too. I suggest you read Mr1Croft's excellent post. Are you going to the same games as the rest of us?
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What a pile of shite the OP is. We're not a hoofball team. From what I've seen, we seem well able to mix our game up. You can't say the same of life under SO'D.
I love you too. I suggest you read Mr1Croft's excellent post. Are you going to the same games as the rest of us?
You`ve told us in the past that you don`t go to games, so in answer to your question to PDX, he does go to the same games as you, mainly because he resides overseas
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As annoying as the orignal poster can be, there is an element of truth about the hoof ball Deano introduced. Its not pretty to watch,yes it can be effective in League 1, but IF we did get promoted we would need a complete re-build.
But how many teams football their way out of this division? It was coming along before he buggered off to Wolves, and you can't deny that. He even knew we'd need a rebuild, he said something along the lines of having to build a side for the division you're in.
I seem to remember a team "footballing" their way out of this division a few years ago................. Doncaster Rovers! That team would anhilate us as we now are, we desperately need to replace keegan and Harper with some midfielders to improve.
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Nothing wrong with Keegan, exactly the type of player you need in this league.
Yes our side was a good side back then but it certainly wouldn't anhilate this side, can you not remember getting out fought numerous times that season against very poor sides such as Yeovil, Walsall, Northampton, Hartlepool etc etc,
People have a very glossy memory of that season
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It would destroy this team though, on paper... Our squad is poor this season.
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It would destroy this team though, on paper... Our squad is poor this season.
just as well that we play on grass rather than paper!
I think a game between the two teams would be a close affair, this team would probably bully the passing team we had
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It would destroy this team though, on paper... Our squad is poor this season.
just as well that we play on grass rather than paper!
I think a game between the two teams would be a close affair, this team would probably bully the passing team we had
It'd probably be close for about 20mins, then after that the class of our last L1 squad would show through.
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Also worth remembering the large amount of money that was spent in putting that squad together, which is no longer available. I'm sure Dean and Flynn would both love to have £150,000 to go out and get a Brian Stock in centre midfield but it's just not happening unless you happen to be Bournemouth.
I agree we're not a hoofball team. We're more direct, but it's not like every ball forward is a hopeful punt. We have footballers in the squad, but the spine of the team is made up of grafters - grafters who have got us join top of the league, I might add. This team is less technically gifted than that one but far more organised and obviously a much more close-knit bunch of players. It'd be an interesting battle that's for sure.
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Some good points here.
I think the style of play under Saunders was evolving and Flynn may well be the man to take it to the next level in a fairly seamless way. I don't think we were very effective at Bury and our defence weren't as they have been but I put that down to form rather than style.
With Walsall I think the defence were still in the same mould, but otherwise from what I heard on the commentary and on here, and saw on the very brief Player vid, we were very unlucky not to win.
So, I don't go with the criticisms of the manager at all, way too early and reactive. Overall, the style we have is good and effective but does need constant development. Time will tell.
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I think this side is good and the panicking and worrying that is going on is a little unfair. Ok, we lost at Bury who themselves are fighting for their lives and by all accounts (didnt go myself) we were lucky to not get something from that game and on another day could have won. We played a Walsall team who have now won 8 of their last 10 including Bournemouth who everyone is comparing us too, they are a good side. I dont see any need to panic.
As for Flynn, the guy has some incredible credentials, I think he has been unlucky with the fixture list and the break of 2 weeks has undoubtedly not helped us. When we played Leyton orient people were on here purring about the performance. He isnt helped with the fact that the only forward minded central midfielder in our side gets injured and he has to play Harper and keegan together, not a lot of pace and dynamicism there. Keegan for me is a good player, he does the ugly things that go unnoticed and that every team needs, he is a water carrier. As for Harper... not really sure what he adds if I am honest but Flynn has no other option. Maybe after his performance on Saturday Woods may get a game in there or maybe Fowler will get a start but for me it has been proven many times this season. Its Keegan or Harper together and NOT both. Bennett has been a passenger for the last 3 months but whenever he makes an error there comes the usual idiotic un-educated shouts from the stand, that will have an effect.
At the beginning of the season we would all have taken play offs, face facts. Every single team has blips, thats the way it goes, its football. We are fortunate that alot of the games recently have gone our way and we still find ourselves joint top of the table knowing a point tomorrow will take us top. Anyone would have thought that we were fighting relegation with some of the stuff on here.
The team we have now may not be as skillful as the previous incarnations but at least we have fight, guile and resillience and for me I think as a team we are much stronger with less money and there is now a belief and togetherness that is strong, but if we keep getting on their backs that will disappear.
Flynn has years and years of experience, 2 defeats on the trot doesnt make him or any of the high level professionals who have given him many plaudits bad at their jobs.
The concerning thing for me is that it seems that any team that comes and plays the ball around and plays decent on the deck football have turned us over (Walsall, Coventry), MK Dons are of a similar ilk and with Keegan and HArper in there, I fear that perhaps another poor result could be on the way.
Get behind the team and encourage for once, the negativity is a massive contributing factor and if people dont like seeing their team losing games and maybe 2 on the trot, then you should stop supporting.... it happens, teams lose.
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As annoying as the orignal poster can be, there is an element of truth about the hoof ball Deano introduced. Its not pretty to watch,yes it can be effective in League 1, but IF we did get promoted we would need a complete re-build.
But how many teams football their way out of this division? It was coming along before he buggered off to Wolves, and you can't deny that. He even knew we'd need a rebuild, he said something along the lines of having to build a side for the division you're in.
I seem to remember a team "footballing" their way out of this division a few years ago................. Doncaster Rovers! That team would anhilate us as we now are, we desperately need to replace keegan and Harper with some midfielders to improve.
Once again, my point wasn't that NO team does it, just VERY FEW. I know everyone who went up with us did it, and I know one or two have done since, but they're the minority.
Agree with getting rid of Harper though. He's b*llocks.