Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: les@donr on May 20, 2013, 12:33:25 am
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Just throwing the idea out there for the KM to have a Legends Wall, where past Legends of Rovers are named and praise, not to be forgotten. A few come to mind, Tierney, Greeny, Big Leo, Blundell, Hayter and many more.
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Don't forget the young Trotter :scarf:
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Warrington has to be there too.
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Good idea this - but it would need some serious thought about what the entry criteria would be. If that wasn't clear right from the off it would lead to all sorts of arguments. For example, much as I love, and still love Andy Warrington, you can't put him in the same league as Neil Sullivan, never mind Harry Gregg. Likewise, how would we decide between Tony Coleman and Michael McIndoe? Similarly, Leo might have been fun to watch and scored some bloody important goals - but as a CF is he really in the same street as Bob Gilfillan or even Pancho Regan? Personally, I wouldn't even have him clean their boots, and Pancho wasn't even a particularly good CF. What about Alan Brown? Now there was a good one - but he didn't play for us for very long. Does he count? Ian Nimmo? Alan Warboys?
We need some entrance criteria.
BobG
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I like what Arsenal did with the Emirates, kind of mixed up epochs of players...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7161/6419060241_2919796ebe_z.jpg)
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Not forgetting managers who were legends, Dave Penney must be amongst them. JR should have a spot all of his own.
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Les cracking idea, we also need something inside the foyers/concourse area to cut the bland concreteness and to show we have taken ownership - may help create a better atmosphere too
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I like what Arsenal did with the Emirates, kind of mixed up epochs of players...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7161/6419060241_2919796ebe_z.jpg)
John Spicer is on that picture Rob!
And I'm sure there's another ex-Rover. Maybe Harps, maybe not.....
I'll check my photos and report back
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I'm still surprised that something down at the Keepmoat isn't named after JR!
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Someone said in another thread that for most of Rovers existence has been bouncing between the old 3rd and 4th Divisions. It would be easy to see the last 10 years being the norm, and to forget those Rovers Legends who put on a Rovers shirt and played for our team despite its often lowly league status, and for 5 years its non-league status.
It would be good to get someone like Len South involved in coming up with Rovers Legends of the past, including the club's early days.
Another idea could be that the Legends would be in the Rovers shirt of their day, head and shoulders photo/picture and giving their years of service to Rovers and any international caps gained during their Rovers years.
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I forgot to mention the late great Alick Jeffery would have a place on the wall.
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I like what Arsenal did with the Emirates, kind of mixed up epochs of players...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7161/6419060241_2919796ebe_z.jpg)
The other good thing about that Rob is that the sponsers aren't shown so no conflict every time it's renewed.
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I like what Arsenal did with the Emirates, kind of mixed up epochs of players...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7161/6419060241_2919796ebe_z.jpg)
The other good thing about that Rob is that the sponsers aren't shown so no conflict every time it's renewed.
Apart from the great big Emirates at the top lol. What will happen if Emirates ever pull out ?
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Great idea. And, we have a ready made artist in our midst who could perhaps get his paints out yet again !!
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Maybe in years to come Dickov would enter Rovers Wall of Legends, we all should hope for that. :rtid:
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The manager who took us to the premiership??
We can but dream!!
:scarf: :clapping: :scarf:
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That's JR's dream too! He has fulfilled his first dream in getting Rovers into the Championship, why not dream Premiership. What's the point being in the Championship if we do not want Championship football. Norwich and Southampton have done it, why not Doncaster Rovers?
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Good idea this - but it would need some serious thought about what the entry criteria would be. If that wasn't clear right from the off it would lead to all sorts of arguments. For example, much as I love, and still love Andy Warrington, you can't put him in the same league as Neil Sullivan, never mind Harry Gregg. Likewise, how would we decide between Tony Coleman and Michael McIndoe? Similarly, Leo might have been fun to watch and scored some bloody important goals - but as a CF is he really in the same street as Bob Gilfillan or even Pancho Regan? Personally, I wouldn't even have him clean their boots, and Pancho wasn't even a particularly good CF. What about Alan Brown? Now there was a good one - but he didn't play for us for very long. Does he count? Ian Nimmo? Alan Warboys?
We need some entrance criteria.
BobG
I agree with you. We need someone who knows in details the history of our club and those players who could grace a Rovers Legends Wall. Someone like Len South could lead a fans committee to come up with names, and there would be a fans vote as to who should enter the Legends Wall.
The fans committee could stay in place and give new recommendations on a periodical period. My only suggested rule would be no current player or manger can enter the Legends Wall whilst at the club.
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For those of you who completed the recent #IRWT survey you will have noticed a few questions about heritage and the recording of DRFC history within the stadium. The club have a project in mind that will meet a lot of what is suggested on here and in this thread. I have a meeting with the club tomorrow and I'm sure this one of the items on the agenda, I'll report back when I can.
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Barnsley fc have a' legendary' player's names wall on the south stand at oakwell
with the names appearing on feature bricks in the external walling.
Perhaps something could be done with the facing blockwork at the keepmoat.
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The general rule of thumb for inclusion on this things is in the ratio of who gets nominated to how much space you have. Seeing as how we have a wopping great big stadium with absolutely nothing on the outside then we should have room for plenty of nominations.
The main decision would be as to what form it would take:
one large combined banner - as Arsenal
individual banners - Brighton & Bournemouth
painted mural - Portsmouth
then work from there
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Barnsley fc have a' legendary' player's names wall on the south stand at oakwell
with the names appearing on feature bricks in the external walling.
Perhaps something could be done with the facing blockwork at the keepmoat.
No one looks at names on bricks (well, very few), colour photos's of 'legends' on the walls of the stadium, clearly visible & a 'statement' to all who approach the stadium. Burnley have a similar thing at Turf Moor. It doesn't half look good, Sammy McIlroy, Andy Lochead, Steve Kindon, Dave Thomas....brill. Would love to see something similar at Keepmoat. Here's my 'top 20' (for what it's worth!). Present Rover's players not considered (sorry Copps).
Harry Greg.
Clarrie Jordan.
Syd Bycroft.
Charlie Williams.
King Alick.
Alan Warboys.
Brenden O' Callaghan.
Alan Brown.
Peter Barnes.
Macca.
Laurie Sheffield.
The Snodins.
Sir Fran.
Alan Little.
Peter Kitchen.
Stuart Robertson.
Brian Usher.
Neil Redfearn.
COLIN CLISH.
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I'd have Dave Penney on that list too, ColinCNo3. Also, Colin Douglas and Andy Warrington. All good servants to this club and worthy of the honour.
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It's a good list though Rob. I like it, a lot, Colin. There's only 1 player I'd drop from it: Brian Usher. Totally inept crosser of the ball. Dead exciting running down the wing, but totally effing useless at getting it into the box. I'd stick either Stevie Lister or Billy Russell in for him.
BobG
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The One-Call girls :thumbsup:
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For those of you who completed the recent #IRWT survey you will have noticed a few questions about heritage and the recording of DRFC history within the stadium. The club have a project in mind that will meet a lot of what is suggested on here and in this thread. I have a meeting with the club tomorrow and I'm sure this one of the items on the agenda, I'll report back when I can.
SM, thanks for taking this idea up with the club. I'm sure JR will see it as a good idea, and to see that Doncaster Rovers FC has a history and who were the heroes and legends for the club before the current era. I hope it will be a "living" Legends Wall that can be added to over the coming years and decades.
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I was thinking of there being a permanent Legends Wall inside the stadium and covering the wall of the concourse. It would really make the KM as Rovers home. Outside there could be large TV Screens showing a slide show of all the "greats".
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Barnsley fc have a' legendary' player's names wall on the south stand at oakwell
with the names appearing on feature bricks in the external walling.
Perhaps something could be done with the facing blockwork at the keepmoat.
No one looks at names on bricks (well, very few), colour photos's of 'legends' on the walls of the stadium, clearly visible & a 'statement' to all who approach the stadium. Burnley have a similar thing at Turf Moor. It doesn't half look good, Sammy McIlroy, Andy Lochead, Steve Kindon, Dave Thomas....brill. Would love to see something similar at Keepmoat. Here's my 'top 20' (for what it's worth!). Present Rover's players not considered (sorry Copps).
Harry Greg.
Clarrie Jordan.
Syd Bycroft.
Charlie Williams.
King Alick.
Alan Warboys.
Brenden O' Callaghan.
Alan Brown.
Peter Barnes.
Macca.
Laurie Sheffield.
The Snodins.
Sir Fran.
Alan Little.
Peter Kitchen.
Stuart Robertson.
Brian Usher.
Neil Redfearn.
COLIN CLISH.
Could we have a bottle of Glenfiddich up there in honour of Dougie :)
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Filo, if we had each "greats" drinking preference their name, some might conclude that is why Rovers spent most of its existence in the two lower divisions of the FL. Though it didn't seem to affect George Best in his early days.
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Barnsley fc have a' legendary' player's names wall on the south stand at oakwell
with the names appearing on feature bricks in the external walling.
Perhaps something could be done with the facing blockwork at the keepmoat.
No one looks at names on bricks (well, very few), colour photos's of 'legends' on the walls of the stadium, clearly visible & a 'statement' to all who approach the stadium. Burnley have a similar thing at Turf Moor. It doesn't half look good, Sammy McIlroy, Andy Lochead, Steve Kindon, Dave Thomas....brill. Would love to see something similar at Keepmoat. Here's my 'top 20' (for what it's worth!). Present Rover's players not considered (sorry Copps).
Harry Greg.
Clarrie Jordan.
Syd Bycroft.
Charlie Williams.
King Alick.
Alan Warboys.
Brenden O' Callaghan.
Alan Brown.
Peter Barnes.
Macca.
Laurie Sheffield.
The Snodins.
Sir Fran.
Alan Little.
Peter Kitchen.
Stuart Robertson.
Brian Usher.
Neil Redfearn.
COLIN CLISH.
Albert Jenkins (we have him to blame for all this!)
Tom Keetley (our record goalscorer)
Peter Doherty (after Alick our most talented ever player)
Fred Emery (our record League appearance holder and second in total appearances)
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I don't think anyone should be included on the Legends Wall until their playing days are behind them. Perhaps the same for Managers. Just an idea towards the criteria of who to choose. Therefore, the Legends Wall would be a "living" wall to which players and Managers can be added.
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As Bob said earlier, criteria is important in this kind of thing, but very hard to pin down. Some criteria apply stronger at different times - eg being an international is less now than it was. Whilst I think achievements of players after they have played for Donny can be significant, especially in players who spent their early days here, I don't see anything in achievements that are before playing here.
Anyone with over 300 total appearances should be in.
Maybe a little more emphasis could go to more recent players like with Macca.
There's a whole bunch of people from earlier who should be included.
John Mitchell - reasons mentioned on his wiki page
Walter Langton - was with us for 18 seasons
Sam Cowan - one of our legends surely
Paddy McConnell - our first international
Len Graham - amount of caps and an international
Charlie Williams - how could he not be!
Colin Douglas - most appearances for Donny
Other ancients to consider:
Billy Longden
Billy Linward
Albert Turner - scored in 6 consecutive games and 5 goals in one game
Bert Tindall
Ken Hardwick
Brian Makepeace
Dennis Peacock
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clarrie jordan . As if i am correct is our highest ever goalscorer in a season
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John Ryan without a doubt.
If not for him we wouldn't even be having this discussion as there wouldn't even be a Doncaster Rovers.
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Bert Tindill is another must ( note Tindall was Chelsea ).
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They could do it as a time line with 2 or 3 players from every decade - based on stats/reputation for earlier years and then by fans vote for last 5 decades.
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As Bob said earlier, criteria is important in this kind of thing, but very hard to pin down. Some criteria apply stronger at different times - eg being an international is less now than it was. Whilst I think achievements of players after they have played for Donny can be significant, especially in players who spent their early days here, I don't see anything in achievements that are before playing here.
Anyone with over 300 total appearances should be in.
Maybe a little more emphasis could go to more recent players like with Macca.
There's a whole bunch of people from earlier who should be included.
John Mitchell - reasons mentioned on his wiki page
Walter Langton - was with us for 18 seasons
Sam Cowan - one of our legends surely
Paddy McConnell - our first international
Len Graham - amount of caps and an international
Charlie Williams - how could he not be!
Colin Douglas - most appearances for Donny
Other ancients to consider:
Billy Longden
Billy Linward
Albert Turner - scored in 6 consecutive games and 5 goals in one game
Bert Tindall
Ken Hardwick
Brian Makepeace
Dennis Peacock
BRR how could you possibly miss 'big' Syd Bycroft of your list ? I hope it was an oversight :( That man was a legend.
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BRR how could you possibly miss 'big' Syd Bycroft of your list ? I hope it was an oversight :( That man was a legend.
Was mainly adding in ones not already mentioned :)
Okay, we can kill 3 birds with one stone here, temporarilly at least - the historical recognition of our past, the war commemoration and the individuals.
The idea of doing it by decades sounds good - like a collage of pics (or info if no pics available) on each decade right from the start - 1879-1889, 1890-1899 etc even 1910-1919 which wasn't spectactular playing wise but may include an subtle image of the war in the collage as a commemoration, the same for 1940-1949.
Some decades may have more or less players included. Could also include the various trophies tastefully placed in there including the Midland League and Sheff County Cups of years ago, with team photo's with the cups if we have them. Also, significant managers dropped in, maybe even the occasional director, and I don't know how much influence past directors and benefactors figure.. But, IMO thats maybe inappropriate. JR for sure deserves recognition, but maybe this isn't the palce for that.
1920-1929 may have an image of the original Belle Vue somewhere, or as the background.
All the above gets away from having to be too fussy re inclusion criteria, and it celebrates Donny Rovers not just the individuals. In some places it may be a team photo that figures most prominently.
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From the popularity and posters on this thread I can see a panel forming of interested parties who can put forward players names on an annual basis to be voted in and inducted to the Wall of Fame.
This annual event could provide another means of engaging with fans.
Each player of the past put forward could have a summary of his career and achievements, stats and photos or video's where available, so that one or two per year could be voted in and inducted.
Once you have agreed on the historical ones above, you could come up with some minimum qualification criteria.
Just a thought!
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PS - Just nicking something from Baseball
"According to the current rules, players must have at least 10 years of major league experience to be eligible for induction. In addition, they must be retired for at least 5 years if living, or deceased for at least 6 months. Players meeting these qualifications must pass through a screening committee, and are then voted on"
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Newspaper headlines work well for the decades story too.
The National Football Museum has this criteria for their Hall of Fame:
To be considered for induction players must be either retired or at least 30 years of age. All inductees must also have played/managed for at least five years in England.
Incidentally having a look through their list I make it 6 inductees with Rovers connections.
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The problem with a timeline is that is could potentially run out of space, given that they line would keep going as long there is a Doncaster Rovers and are still playing at the KM. In say 100 years time that is a further 10 decades how much space will each of that decade get?I would suggest a form of grid system might work in that players are allocated a space randomly and spaces are kept open for future recipients, by showing the continuity of Rovers from past to present to future.
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I have transferred information from another thread to here, as I think it is important to include the details of John Mitchell's playing career at Rovers. Thanks to BRR for finding and posting the information.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on June 02, 2013, 01:57:51 pm
Unlikely that we'll be signing him... I wanted to share a little about this unsung majesty of our club from the 1800s.
He was in the first game Rovers played after they named themselves against Rawmarsh in 1879, and likely that he also played in "that" game against the Deaf School. He then went to Newton Heath LYR (ie Manchester United) immediately after we played them. Thats in the Bluff book. I created a wiki page on him after finding out further info that maybe wasn't known about him amongst our historians?
He went on to have a great career with Newton Heath playing 204 games, including winning 4 Manchester Cups. But in the middle of this he had a spell at Bolton Wanderers, playing for them in the first two saturdays of the inaugural season of the Football League in 1888.
As far as I know thats a unique, and highly significant achievement from an ex-Rovers player of that time, never mind one from that first side we had. Also, it seems likely from browsing birth records (though I can't confirm it) that he was a Donny lad too.
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Les, I believe that the history of the club will be told in a timeline - using montages of photos etc, the legendary players would be a separate section. At least that is how I was imagining it. I would say that every ten years is a good time period to have a redisplay - things start to look a bit tatty by then and you are certainly sick of seeing the same things.