Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Filo on May 22, 2013, 07:16:33 pm
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How can anyone justify not bringing back the death penalty for terrorists after what has happened today in Woolwich?
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Birmingham Six?
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Birmingham Six?
I don`t see the relevance, the two Muslim fanatics today have confessed everything on camera, there should n`t be a trial, straight to the gallows for them, get rid of these filth from our streets
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The Guildford Four were terrorists too. The relevance is that they and the Birmingham Six were all found guilty of terrorism and you would presumably happily have strung them up.
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Shocking news. Agree with you here Filo. Absolute evil. I sense a bigger plot here i'm afraid.
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The Guildford Four were terrorists too. The relevance is that they and the Birmingham Six were all found guilty of terrorism and you would presumably happily have strung them up.
Precisely Glyn. But why let the mistakes of history get in the way of a an opportunity for a good public lynching.
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I sense a bigger plot here i'm afraid.
Glad we've got our best man on the case.
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The Guildford Four were terrorists too. The relevance is that they and the Birmingham Six were all found guilty of terrorism and you would presumably happily have strung them up.
Precisely Glyn. But why let the mistakes of history get in the way of a an opportunity for a good public lynching.
Don't think the evidence here is questionable in the slightest.
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The Guildford Four were terrorists too. The relevance is that they and the Birmingham Six were all found guilty of terrorism and you would presumably happily have strung them up.
Precisely Glyn. But why let the mistakes of history get in the way of a an opportunity for a good public lynching.
Don't think the evidence here is questionable in the slightest.
The sentence is based on the severity of the crime, not the indisputability of the evidence. If it was, you'd have to acquit everyone less than 100% guilty.
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The Guildford Four were terrorists too. The relevance is that they and the Birmingham Six were all found guilty of terrorism and you would presumably happily have strung them up.
Precisely Glyn. But why let the mistakes of history get in the way of a an opportunity for a good public lynching.
Don't think the evidence here is questionable in the slightest.
Bigger plot they'd have legged it - haven't you seen 24 ;)
I'll be in the minority here no death penalty for me, it would only serve to martyr them, make things worse etc. I also feel you have to be consistent if it's death penalty for one murder it should be for all (no doubt many would agree with that). I'm just against any life being taken even that of a murderer (as many of any religious persuasion would be).
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Unbelieveable that ITV have given airtime to the scum that did it, and shown the solider lying dead in the road.
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Don't think the evidence here is questionable in the slightest.
I take it you've closed off the crime scene Frosty?
Should you be posting whilst down there?
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Don't think the evidence here is questionable in the slightest.
I take it you've closed off the crime scene Frosty?
Should you be posting whilst down there?
Seeing as the news are reporting that the scum filmed each other doing it, then one of them confesses it all to ITV news covered in blood, i'd say it is pretty conclusive.
But hey, lets not forget their human rights shall we?
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The Guildford Four were terrorists too. The relevance is that they and the Birmingham Six were all found guilty of terrorism and you would presumably happily have strung them up.
Precisely Glyn. But why let the mistakes of history get in the way of a an opportunity for a good public lynching.
Don't think the evidence here is questionable in the slightest.
The sentence is based on the severity of the crime, not the indisputability of the evidence. If it was, you'd have to acquit everyone less than 100% guilty.
I`d normally err on the side of your point, but today what has happened in Woolwich is horrendous, we have two Muslim fanatics hack to death a serving British Soldier and a confession on camera to boot, there should be no public money wasted on a a trial, those two should be put to death immediately, all known radical Muslims should be rounded up and interred without charge, we are not safe on our own streets while we have nutters like these free to do what they want, when they want.
Those two must have done more damage to the Muslim Community than any political party could ever do, I bet the BNP and EDL are jumping for joy!
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The Guildford Four were terrorists too. The relevance is that they and the Birmingham Six were all found guilty of terrorism and you would presumably happily have strung them up.
Precisely Glyn. But why let the mistakes of history get in the way of a an opportunity for a good public lynching.
Don't think the evidence here is questionable in the slightest.
The sentence is based on the severity of the crime, not the indisputability of the evidence. If it was, you'd have to acquit everyone less than 100% guilty.
I`d normally err on the side of your point, but today what has happened in Woolwich is horrendous, we have two Muslim fanatics hack to death a serving British Soldier and a confession on camera to boot, there should be no public money wasted on a a trial, those two should be put to death immediately, all known radical Muslims should be rounded up and interred without charge, we are not safe on our own streets while we have nutters like these free to do what they want, when they want.
Those two must have done more damage to the Muslim Community than any political party could ever do, I bet the BNP and EDL are jumping for joy!
In fact Filo, death is too good for them. They should be locked up and made to suffer and be tortured for the rest of their lives.
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Anders Breivik identifies himself as a Christian.
Should Norway be rounding up all the particularly vocal Christians ?
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Anders Breivik identifies himself as a Christian.
Should Norway be rounding up all the particularly vocal Christians ?
So are you happy for Muslim extremists to be walking the street, with the potential for horrors like this happening? What do you think this will do for the muslim community as a whole. They will suffer also, as there will undoubtedly be reprisals as a result of this.
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Define extreme.
Define radical.
To me, your views are quite radical. Should you be walking the streets?
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Anders Breivik identifies himself as a Christian.
Should Norway be rounding up all the particularly vocal Christians ?
So are you happy for Muslim extremists to be walking the street, with the potential for horrors like this happening? What do you think this will do for the muslim community as a whole. They will suffer also, as there will undoubtedly be reprisals as a result of this.
When I read 1984 as a youngster I believed the Thought Police was a literary fancy.
Not any more it seems.
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Define extreme.
Define radical.
To me, your views are quite radical. Should you be walking the streets?
I give up. How anyone can try and defend people who believe in things like this is beyond me.
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What I am finding hard to comprehend,is the people around. Everyone filming everyone else but no one basically doing anything. We are producing a culture where people want validation for their own existence by proving that they were there - by being overcome by their own narcissistic desires to get more likes on facebook rather than live in the moment and create a society based on values they want to live in.
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Define extreme.
Define radical.
To me, your views are quite radical. Should you be walking the streets?
I give up. How anyone can try and defend people who believe in things like this is beyond me.
Funnily enough, I grew up in a Britain that punished people for what they did, and not for what they believed in.
If I'm not in that country any more I might be called radical for calling for a change.
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I ave have Been more Than happy for Police to use a shot to KILL policy in This case.
Fcuk the pussy footing about and asking WHY WHY and WHY,as fcuk all constructive Will be done once them questions have Been answered.
Eye for an eye as they Belive in the muslim culture.
I read about stabbings and killings in London all the time,which in the main is gang related and i seem to accept it Now as it happens so often.
That is wrong and some 20 years down the line When
Acts like woolich toady have become as aften we Will
Start to accept as part Of day to day life in britian.
Hang the vile fcukers and bring back the death sentence for certian acts
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What I am finding hard to comprehend,is the people around. Everyone filming everyone else but no one basically doing anything. We are producing a culture where people want validation for their own existence by proving that they were there - by being overcome by their own narcissistic desires to get more likes on facebook rather than live in the moment and create a society based on values they want to live in.
too right R.O.T on London tonight they interviewed a lass who went passed the site on a bus! who then returned later to find out what happened!! hell fire
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Define extreme.
Define radical.
To me, your views are quite radical. Should you be walking the streets?
I give up. How anyone can try and defend people who believe in things like this is beyond me.
Funnily enough, I grew up in a Britain that punished people for what they did, and not for what they believed in.
If I'm not in that country any more I might be called radical for calling for a change.
So did I Glyn, but there is no dispute that these 2 fanatics did a horrendous murder whether its plain terroism/in the name of religion or whatever they hacked somebody to death in the middle of Londons South Circular road. They did it and I've no doubt they believed in what they were doing
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There is still a vast chasm between believing in something and doing something.
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Can any of the do gooders or human rights brigade give a justifiable reason why these two scumbags should n`t be hung drawn and quartered, bearing in mind there is a video confession at the scene of the crime?
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There is still a vast chasm between believing in something and doing something.
What's the answer then? You seem to know it all.
We take no steps to prevent terrorists such as those responsible committing acts like this in the future? If no steps are taken then I promise you, this country will become a very grim place in the next 10 years. There is only so much more people will take before serious reprisals.
In fact, I am seeing reports already of the EDL organising gatherings to "protest".
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There is still a vast chasm between believing in something and doing something.
What's the answer then? You seem to know it all.
We take no steps to prevent terrorists such as those responsible committing acts like this in the future? If no steps are taken then I promise you, this country will become a very grim place in the next 10 years. There is only so much more people will take before serious reprisals.
In fact, I am seeing reports already of the EDL organising gatherings to "protest".
My solution? Hunt down and prosecute people committing criminal acts, including conspiracy to commit.
What would you suggest?
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There is still a vast chasm between believing in something and doing something.
What's the answer then? You seem to know it all.
We take no steps to prevent terrorists such as those responsible committing acts like this in the future? If no steps are taken then I promise you, this country will become a very grim place in the next 10 years. There is only so much more people will take before serious reprisals.
In fact, I am seeing reports already of the EDL organising gatherings to "protest".
My solution? Hunt down and prosecute people committing criminal acts, including conspiracy to commit.
What would you suggest? I suggest an eye for an eye
For certian crimes,and todays acts Been in the top of said list Of crimes.
I like to think with tecnolgy today that the days Of a wrong sentences have long gone,Of which iam more Than happy to put me trust in todays justice systems
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That poor man's family, what they must be going through right now doesn't bear thinking about.
There is already a photo doing the rounds on face book of men in headgear looking very Arabic with words like f**k the rag heads ect. The usual knee jerk type thing..
Having watched all three tea time channels coverage I found the BBC's extremely disturbing. They are Muslim they declared. ITV was more cautious, although it did have the member of public's footage of the killer C4 the most graphic...
Now I know race doesn't automatically denote religion, so seeing as the man quite literally with blood on his hands was black, with an accent straight out of Ali G the movie, how the heck does there immediately become the slack assumption that they are 'immigrants' here for a short time on a jihad?
it is an evil, wicked , terrible crime and I would hope that the killers are punished to the letter of the law, but I feel incredibly uncomfortable reading some of the posts I have seen on the net tonight. I worry that this is the start of something truly nasty, with ordinary innocent Muslims being attacked. UKIP is thriving, this will give it extra ammunition.
As for the sick sods gawping, words cannot describe how sick I think it is to stop, back track and watch another human beings terrible execution.. What kind of mentality whips out a camera phone and films it for gods sake?
I am not an apologist, I do not excuse, but I do feel uncomfortable watching the frenzy of hatred that is being whipped up. Until I read the whole truth, if there is ever such a thing between the press and this government I will hold back from making assumptions.
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I like to think with tecnolgy today that the days Of a wrong sentences have long gone,Of which iam more Than happy to put me trust in todays justice systems
Really? You actually think there is nobody in any of our prisons that is the victim of a miscarriage of justice? Not one?
And how 'long gone'? Since when do you think there has never been a wrongful conviction?
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I like to think with tecnolgy today that the days Of a wrong sentences have long gone,Of which iam more Than happy to put me trust in todays justice systems
Really? You actually think there is nobody in any of our prisons that is the victim of a miscarriage of justice? Not one?
And how 'long gone'? Since when do you think there has never been a wrongful conviction?for sure There is People in Prison that are 200per cent not guilty,that Will allways happen.
But i like to think or hope or Belive that When it comes
Down to the death penalty safe gaurds are put in place.
Dont Ask me how as that not my job,but for sure Even you must see that the two loons toady are an open and shut case...
...which in turn would require the death penalty as punishment...
They have put a man on the moon,Now is the time to find a solution for a fool proof death penalty
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As I've already said, the sentence is based onm the crime you're guilty of, not the strength of the evidence against you.
If you want to have a 'fool proof' level of proof to sentence someone to death, then you have to acquit anyone who wasn't found guilty to that level. You can't have a verdict of 'slightly guilty' or 'guilty but not guilty enough to execute'. Meaning that about 95% of people in prision for murder would have been acquitted.
At least we'd save a lot of money on keeping people in prison.
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Anything else on your wishlist Oslo, alongside a fail safe justice system?
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I don't think there will ever be a 'fool proof' way of making sure there isn't a miscarriage of justice. The law is only as honest as those serving it.
for that reason alone I would not trust it.
I don't believe in the death penalty, never have, never will.
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It's no good claiming DNA evidence as fool proof either. Because it isn't, despite how tv cop shows portray it.
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This topic Will allways have legs fella and we could go on and on and on.
But like i said before ..i dont have the answer to a fool proof death sentence policy.....and i dont have a Clue where to start as bascially Its not my job to do so.
But the ploiticians outhere it is Their job to keep are boarders as safe as and to keep all and sundry within said boarders on the straight and narrow.
Of which today i feal no party takes serious enough
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I don't think there will ever be a 'fool proof' way of making sure there isn't a miscarriage of justice. The law is only as honest as those serving it.
for that reason alone I would not trust it.
I don't believe in the death penalty, never have, never will.
After watching Panorama the other night, I'm not surprised.
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But like i said before ..i dont have the answer to a fool proof death sentence policy.....and i dont have a Clue where to start as bascially Its not my job to do so.
So, you have no idea how to obtain a fool proof conviction, and no idea if it could ever be done, but you still want the death penalty?
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But like i said before ..i dont have the answer to a fool proof death sentence policy.....and i dont have a Clue where to start as bascially Its not my job to do so.
So, you have no idea how to obtain a fool proof conviction, and no idea if it could ever be done, but you still want the death penalty?
So Glyn, do you have any doubt that those 2 Kitsons today, covered in blood, filmed murdering the poor guy, then admitting to the crime on TV, are guilty?
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I don't think there will ever be a 'fool proof' way of making sure there isn't a miscarriage of justice. The law is only as honest as those serving it.
for that reason alone I would not trust it.
I don't believe in the death penalty, never have, never will.
After watching Panorama the other night, I'm not surprised.if them two loons today had Been hung drawn and quartered,or a simple lethal injection next week,i would sleep Well at night.
But not tonite ,as i Will go to sleep tossing and turning thinking about how they Will be looked after in a state
Prison to the call Of human fcuking rights
As i said before ...what about the human rights Of the poor Chap missing his head....
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Oslo, your views seem to be somewhat idealistic. We could all dream up perfect scenarios for others to create, but that's not the reality we live in.
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But like i said before ..i dont have the answer to a fool proof death sentence policy.....and i dont have a Clue where to start as bascially Its not my job to do so.
So, you have no idea how to obtain a fool proof conviction, and no idea if it could ever be done, but you still want the death penalty?
So Glyn, do you have any doubt that those 2 c***s today, covered in blood, filmed murdering the poor guy, then admitting to the crime on TV, are guilty?
No, but this is one case. What about all the other murders that aren't conveniently filmed and confessed to? How will you get convictions for those when you require a fool-proof level of evidence?
And before you say it you cannot have one sentence for one level of evidence and another for a lower level of evidence. That is not how the justice system works, you are either found guilty or not guilty, and there is one sentence fpr everybody found guilty of the same crime.
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eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life. For all the clear cut cases....as so far this seems to be. How would you feel if that was your son? your brother? The world is a sick place and something needs to be done, other than banging them up in prison with there flat screen tv's and rent free lives paid for by the likes of ourselves. I agree with torturing the sicko's too...evil, evil, evil!!!
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Oslo, your views seem to be somewhat idealistic. We could all dream up perfect scenarios for others to create, but that's not the reality we live in.
wrong or right my views are my views,i never claim to know the answer or a possible solution .
But in this case it just dont seem right to me ,that two loons can butcher some Chap to death and be put up in
Prison .
How would you feal if it was Your brother dad or son that was hacked to death in woolich today?
Could you live with yer self if the them two idiots were
Sent to prison and lived on?
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Oslo, what did you feel Norway should have done with Breivik?
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Michael Mansfield doesn't trust DNA evidence, If to me the most important barrister in the UK thinks it isn't failsafe that's good enough for me.
It's a primitive reaction to want to take the life of a killer but I would hope as a nation we have evolved past the primitive.
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Oslo, what did you feel Norway should have done with Breivik?death sentence fella,why Ask the question as Its obvious where i stand on loons killing People
Eye for an eye simple as
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As you know, he got the maximum, 21 years. And yet Norway has one of the most successful and progressive criminal justice systems in the world. Puzzler hey?
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all this "holyer than thou" talk is just utter tripe. Thats why the scum walking the streets get to carry on doing this....punishment is too light. Im sure little aprils mum is sat at home right now, thinking how much she appreciates that the rotter who slaughtered her little princess gets to live it up in prison.
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all this "holyer than thou" talk is just utter tripe. Thats why the scum walking the streets get to carry on doing this....punishment is too light. Im sure little aprils mum is sat at home right now, thinking how much she appreciates that the rotter who slaughtered her little princess gets to live it up in prison.
Exactly. It's not as if prison is feared. Not with the luxuries that are available these days.
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Like I said elsewhere, Who killed James Hanratty?
Tell you what guys and gals, what, to you, are the hallmarks of a civilised society? What is it that makes it civilised? How would you define a civilised society?
Cheers
BobG
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Thats why the scum walking the streets get to carry on doing this....punishment is too light.
Yep. The US has the death penalty and hardly any murders, eh?
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Exactly. It's not as if prison is feared. Not with the luxuries that are available these days.
I must have been watching different prison documentaries to other people recently.
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Oh FFS Mr Frost! :)
We've had 20 years of conservative government, and 10 of Labour, since the early 1980's. And one of THE common themes across every single one of those governments, was the loudly and often trumpeted clarion call to be tough on crime, to be tough on criminals and to make prisons places of punishment.
If you are right, that prisons are full of 'luxuries', then the solution you desire won't come through any of the political parties. They're all clearly lying through their teeth and have been doing so for over 30 years. Or, they've not been lying, prisons are not full of luxuries, and, you are wrong. Which is it?
Cheers
BobG
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Like I said elsewhere, Who killed James Hanratty?
Tell you guys and gals, what, to you, are the hallmarks of a civilised society? What is it that makes it civilised? How would you define a civilised society?
Cheers
BobG
Not the best example after they took DNA samples from his grave in 2002, Bob. I'd try Timothy Evans or Derek Bentley.
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As you know, he got the maximum, 21 years. And yet Norway has one of the most successful and progressive criminal justice systems in the world. Puzzler hey?
You fool mr monk ,if you think norways criminal justice system is a bench mark That would fit the UKs.
I let you into a little secret,i was at a football match just outside Oslo some years back,When a noggy mate came walking into the ground and Sat next to me.
I was lost for words as he was Halfway Though doing his streach.
It turns out that the prison powers that be let him out
Of the the prison so he could attened the football match as part of his process.
FFS that is so wrong in my view,i dont care how you dress it up.
Norway Will have major issues with Its Prisons and justice system in about 30 years or so,due to the massive influx Of africans,polish,latvians,romainians Of which more
Than enough are upto no good
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It is never right to take the life of another person. Far too many innocent people went to the gallows for it ever to be seen as right and proper.
People calling for the death penalty must think further, all an execution would create is a martyr to the cause.
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Oh FFS Mr Frost! :)
We've had 20 years of conservative government, and 10 of Labour, since the early 1980's. And one of THE common themes across every single one of those governments, was the loudly and often trumpeted clarion call to be tough on crime, to be tough on criminals and to make prisons places of punishment.
If you are right, that prisons are full of 'luxuries', then the solution you desire won't come through any of the political parties. They're all clearly lying through their teeth and have been doing so for over 30 years. Or, they've not been lying, prisons are not full of luxuries, and, you are wrong. Which is it?
Cheers
BobG
My mum works in a prison. Would you define television's, game consoles, internet access readily available to murderers and rapists as luxuries?
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Like I said elsewhere, Who killed James Hanratty?
Tell you guys and gals, what, to you, are the hallmarks of a civilised society? What is it that makes it civilised? How would you define a civilised society?
Cheers
BobG
Not the best example after they took DNA samples from his grave in 2002, Bob. I'd try Timothy Evans or Derek Bentley.
Or Ruth Ellis.... It is nothing but barbaric and something I never want to see a return of in my life time.
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It's a primitive reaction to want to take the life of a killer but I would hope as a nation we have evolved past the primitive.
It's about time you knew better Jucy. This country has most definitely not moved beyond the primitive. It's all around us. every single damn day.
What was the point of me asking above what makes a society civilised? Well, take England today:
Xenophobic in the extreme
Racist
Knee jerk (all you have to think of their is the current crop of sex cases relating to a different era, different mores - never mind MP's expenses, hospital hysteria and all the rest of it)
Easily led - and wanting to be led too. why did Cameron and his silly cronies cosy up to the press barons? Why has every government in recent memory done that?
Morally bankrupt. we can't build enough hospitals pay enough doctors, equip our universities, build enough power stations, build enough reservoirs, but we can spend tens of billions on yet another redundant nuclear deterrent. We can't even pay effing aeroplanes for two monstrous great aircraft carriers! WTF sort of morality lies behind that?
Corrupt to a degree even a banana republic would want to hide
Greedy - top dogs earnings are now what? 20 times average earnings? or is it more? I can't be arsed to check. 30 years ago it was only perhaps 5 times. I'm sure Billy will give us the accurate figures!
Exploitative - zero hours contracts is just one example amongst zillions
This country is primitive in the extreme Jucy. It's nasty, viciious, brutish and shameful. remember the paedeatrician who got killed in Bristol a few years back cos the local yobs thought he was pedophile?
BobG
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Like I said elsewhere, Who killed James Hanratty?
Tell you guys and gals, what, to you, are the hallmarks of a civilised society? What is it that makes it civilised? How would you define a civilised society?
Cheers
BobG
Not the best example after they took DNA samples from his grave in 2002, Bob. I'd try Timothy Evans or Derek Bentley.
Or Ruth Ellis.... It is nothing but barbaric and something I never want to see a return of in my life time.
Ruth Ellis isn't a controversial case, or considered to be a miscarriage of justice. Evans and Bentley were miscarriages of justice.
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remember the paedeatrician who got killed in Bristol a few years back cos the local yobs thought he was pedophile?
Sorry Bob, but that is a complete myth. It didn't happen.
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/wire/8897
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Thank you Glyn. I hadn't heard about that. Now I wish I had used Derek or Timothy!
Cheers
BobG
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Agreed Glyn. He was attacked - but he wasn't killed. I've still got the Bristol paper somewhere with the report.
BobG
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Agreed Glyn. He was attacked - but he wasn't killed. I've still got the Bristol paper somewhere with the report.
BobG
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/wire/8897
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It is becoming clear now that these two Kitsons wanted to die, as it seems they wanted "suicide by cop". So giving them the death penalty would ultimately be what they want.
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It is never right to take the life of another person. Far too many innocent people went to the gallows for it ever to be seen as right and proper.
People calling for the death penalty must think further, all an execution would create is a martyr to the cause.
that view was acceptable in my book some 25 pluss years ago,the days When you felt safe with Your kids playing outside ad walking to school etc etc.
Today Its not safe at all is it.you read about young kids getting raped or killed etc etc all the time.
Iam sure Such acts are on the increase for whatever
Reasons,despite todays media just about covers every case.
It feals to me that Its getting more acceptable within society When a new case Of a young Child getting raped or killed because it happens all the time.
I for sure would be happy for death sentence to be given out for killing Of a Child,and iam close to accepting for raping Of a Child too.
In todays society you it is possible to Get a longer punishment for a FV offence Than for sexually abuse with young kids
That is wrong
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I wonder today how she would have been judged? A woman battered time and time again, one who made no attempt to defend herself in court.
But yup, you are right Glyn, on appeal it was decided the execution was justified at that time.
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I'll tell you something else that is wrong, that one day these two "men" will be eligible for parole. They could be walking our streets again, probably with new identities in case there is a reprisal against them. That is our law.
In my opinion, they should never, ever be able to taste freedom again.
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I for sure would be happy for death sentence to be given out for killing Of a Child
Like Sally Clark, Angela Canning or the Bridgewater Four?
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I for sure would be happy for death sentence to be given out for killing Of a Child
Like Sally Clark, Angela Canning or the Bridgewater Four?
Keep on your soap box Glyn. You can't accept people see things differently to you.
Clearly prison with the luxuries I mentioned is fair punishment for the two who committed the crimes today.
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Keep on your soap box Glyn. You can't accept people see things differently to you.
Since when did not agreeing with someone somehow become not accepting that they do?
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Really simple question for me. Nothing to do with morality. Just simple rationality.
You have to ask yourself, what is the proposed purpose of a death penalty?
If the purpose is to deter these acts, I'm prepared to listen to evidence that it works. But the vast majority of murders are committed by people who are deranged or in a mad rage. They don't stop and think about the prospect of a death sentence before they act. So the possibility of deterrence there vanishes.
As for these terrorists, their very raison d'être is to sacrifice themselves in their cause. Ask yourself if you truly believe that this act today would have been deterred by the death penalty?
So what's left? The only reason left for wanting the death penalty is retribution. Vengeance. In which case, you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself why vengeance is so important to you personally.
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I can understand why the authorities want to keep them alive, to gain evidence and find out why they did it, if they acted alone and to learn lessons. If they do survive then they certainly won't see the light of day again, so what would be the point in keeping them alive? Surely killing them would be more humane than solitary confinement for 50 plus years, with no other human contact?
I'd be very suspicious of their families/ friends too, to the point of arresting them for interviewing, and helping them return to which ever Muslim country they originated. Partly for their own safety and partly because they don't deserve the comfort and affluence of a civilised western country.
Multi culturism simply does not work, if they don't want to integegrate into British society, then please retire to where you came from.
I'll wait for the typical lefty response, who are worried by doing so that labour will lose votes.
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Oslo, so not only are you relying on a criminal justice model whose validity rests on something that has never proved possible i.e. full proof convictions, but now you've built a time machine to undermine the validity of one of the most successful existing models.
And I'm the fool?
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I can understand why the authorities want to keep them alive, to gain evidence and find out why they did it, if they acted alone and to learn lessons. If they do survive then they certainly won't see the light of day again, so what would be the point in keeping them alive? Surely killing them would be more humane than solitary confinement for 50 plus years, with no other human contact?
I'd be very suspicious of their families/ friends too, to the point of arresting them for interviewing, and helping them return to which ever Muslim country they originated. Partly for their own safety and partly because they don't deserve the comfort and affluence of a civilised western country.
Multi culturism simply does not work, if they don't want to integegrate into British society, then please retire to where you came from.
I'll wait for the typical lefty response, who are worried by doing so that labour will lose votes.
I'm in total agreement. None of us could go and live in a muslim country and start disrespecting their beliefs, citizens and soldiers. What do you think would happen?
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I can understand why the authorities want to keep them alive, to gain evidence and find out why they did it, if they acted alone and to learn lessons. If they do survive then they certainly won't see the light of day again, so what would be the point in keeping them alive? Surely killing them would be more humane than solitary confinement for 50 plus years, with no other human contact?
I'd be very suspicious of their families/ friends too, to the point of arresting them for interviewing, and helping them return to which ever Muslim country they originated. Partly for their own safety and partly because they don't deserve the comfort and affluence of a civilised western country.
Multi culturism simply does not work, if they don't want to integegrate into British society, then please retire to where you came from.
I'll wait for the typical lefty response, who are worried by doing so that labour will lose votes.
I'm in total agreement. None of us could go and live in a muslim country and start disrespecting their beliefs, citizens and soldiers. What do you think would happen?
I thought we were proud of our tradition of freedom of speech and expression and looked down on those countries where there wasn't any...but you want us to become like them?
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It is becoming clear now that these two c***s wanted to die, as it seems they wanted "suicide by cop". So giving them the death penalty would ultimately be what they want.
I firmly believe that they wanted to be killed - I can't imagine for the life of me why they would have carried out the actions they did afterwards had they expected that they would be taken by the police alive.
The incident is absolutely sickening, you just cannot comprehend what must be going through someones mind to commit an act like that.
ITV need stringing up for showing the video of the guy on the 6pm news thats for sure, no one needs to see that kind of thing pre-watershed and its just giving the terrorists what they want. For those calling people for taking videos of the incident etc, we live in a society where people like to watch their life go by through a camera lense, its sad, but in this case, it will provide police with all the evidence they need to charge the men involved, so maybe those who took the videos don't need to be villified, but praised for gathering evidence.
The reporting of the incident has angered me, its just lazy, BBC started off by saying it was men of a Muslim appearance... really? They just look like two black guys from the Western world. my first thought wouldn't have been Muslim and it doesn't help the tensions. For those who are banging on about sending them back to where they come from, have you watched the videos? I would be very surprised if the guy who was speaking to the camera wasn't born and raised in London...
The reaction all over social media has been pathetic, I honestly despair of the society that we will live.
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It is becoming clear now that these two c***s wanted to die, as it seems they wanted "suicide by cop". So giving them the death penalty would ultimately be what they want.
I firmly believe that they wanted to be killed - I can't imagine for the life of me why they would have carried out the actions they did afterwards had they expected that they would be taken by the police alive.
The incident is absolutely sickening, you just cannot comprehend what must be going through someones mind to commit an act like that.
ITV need stringing up for showing the video of the guy on the 6pm news thats for sure, no one needs to see that kind of thing pre-watershed and its just giving the terrorists what they want. For those calling people for taking videos of the incident etc, we live in a society where people like to watch their life go by through a camera lense, its sad, but in this case, it will provide police with all the evidence they need to charge the men involved, so maybe those who took the videos don't need to be villified, but praised for gathering evidence.
The reporting of the incident has angered me, its just lazy, BBC started off by saying it was men of a Muslim appearance... really? They just look like two black guys from the Western world. my first thought wouldn't have been Muslim and it doesn't help the tensions. For those who are banging on about sending them back to where they come from, have you watched the videos? I would be very surprised if the guy who was speaking to the camera wasn't born and raised in London...
The reaction all over social media has been pathetic, I honestly despair of the society that we will live.
It does seem however, they were of Islamic faith, and if it appears to be true, you have to wonder what has motivated the extreme views.
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The people who filmed it have fallen into the trap its what they wanted max publicity and the reason they stayed so long was to be killed so they could die as martyrs (a wish they didnt get) . As i have said before you cant stop thesenpeople who wish to die for a cause thats why they strap shit to themselves . One thing we can do and have done is make it more difficult for them. If they are homegrown then theres not much to be done but if they are from another country they and are suspected they should be sent back to their country of origin straight away f**k the european courts.
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So every single person who currently lives here and isn't homegrown should be 'sent back' incase they one day decide to kill someone?
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So every single person who currently lives here and isn't homegrown should be 'sent back' incase they one day decide to kill someone?
Apparently. So much for defending freedom of speech, expression and belief for all those people who go about their lives in a peaceful and lawful manner. Look at someone in a funny way and you're fair game...the Thought Police become a reality. How long before we have the Stasi?
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It does seem however, they were of Islamic faith, and if it appears to be true, you have to wonder what has motivated the extreme views.
I'm not sure what your point is or what you are responding to with this one?
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It does seem however, they were of Islamic faith, and if it appears to be true, you have to wonder what has motivated the extreme views.
I'm not sure what your point is or what you are responding to with this one?
Point us, it doesn't matter the colour of their skin, or what they sound like, if they believe in a radical ideology - which appears to be the case here.
I haven't seen any reports which said they "looked muslim". They were quoted as saying they were killing in the name of Allah - that is where the reports that they were of Islamic faith have come from.
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I only saw the initial BBC website coverage, but their reporting was stating that the men appeared to be of Muslim appearance. Still wondering what a Muslim looks like.
I went to school with a lad who converted to Islam, he had blonde hair and blue eyes - guessing the BBC woudl report him of being Christian appearance before they knew any further details?
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I only saw the initial BBC website coverage, but their reporting was stating that the men appeared to be of Muslim appearance. Still wondering what a Muslim looks like.
I went to school with a lad who converted to Islam, he had blonde hair and blue eyes - guessing the BBC woudl report him of being Christian appearance before they knew any further details?
Fair enough, I can't comment on the BBC as I don't follow their news, but it certainly wasn't reported like that on Sky.
It is now being reported that at least one of the two had converted to Islam.
More has to be done to prevent these young men turning to radical beliefs.
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So every single person who currently lives here and isn't homegrown should be 'sent back' incase they one day decide to kill someone?
If there is enough evidence suggesting that they are planning or plotting something against this country then the answer is yes . If they are prepared to do something like that to law abiding citizens of all faiths and beleifs then they clearly dont want to be part of this multicultural society that we live in and this country stands for. If we sit back and let idiots like hamza and the like preach hatred in a country that has given them all sorts of benefits and freedoms that they wouldnt have in their country of origin , then they clearly dont like it here so should be sent back. For too long now we have been messing about with idiots like him when the truth is we could have sent him back saving us a lot of money , and him the air time to brainwash peoples minds.
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So its been confirmed one of the suspects was born in Lambeth - where are we sending him back to?!
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So its been confirmed one of the suspects was born in Lambeth - where are we sending him back to?!
Obviously in that case, "sending them back" isn't possible. But deportation for immigrants who have terrorist connections should definitely happen.
It is the root cause that needs stamping out. Radical ideologies, extremist beliefs etc should not be tolerated.
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But deportation for immigrants who have terrorist connections should definitely happen.
It depends whether you think it's better to keep them here where you can keep an eye on them and their contacts etc., or risk them slipping back into the country unknown and losing them.
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But deportation for immigrants who have terrorist connections should definitely happen.
It depends whether you think it's better to keep them here where you can keep an eye on them and their contacts etc., or risk them slipping back into the country unknown and losing them.
I'll admit, that's a good point.
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So its been confirmed one of the suspects was born in Lambeth - where are we sending him back to?!
Obviously in that case, "sending them back" isn't possible. But deportation for immigrants who have terrorist connections should definitely happen.
It is the root cause that needs stamping out. Radical ideologies, extremist beliefs etc should not be tolerated.
Maybe that should be pointed out to the seemingly millions of people who had different views on social media last night.
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But deportation for immigrants who have terrorist connections should definitely happen.
It depends whether you think it's better to keep them here where you can keep an eye on them and their contacts etc., or risk them slipping back into the country unknown and losing them.
I'll admit, that's a good point.
Even then, were the two yesterday on anybody's radar? If not, it wouldn't have made any difference.
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So its been confirmed one of the suspects was born in Lambeth - where are we sending him back to?!
The people who filmed it have fallen into the trap its what they wanted max publicity and the reason they stayed so long was to be killed so they could die as martyrs (a wish they didnt get) . As i have said before you cant stop thesenpeople who wish to die for a cause thats why they strap shit to themselves . One thing we can do and have done is make it more difficult for them. If they are homegrown then theres not much to be done but if they are from another country they and are suspected they should be sent back to their country of origin straight away f*** the european courts.
as stated not much can be done with homegrown however lengthy jail sentances can be the only option . And this is a massive problem as we need to stop these people becoming brainwashed in the first place. Its difficult banning everything on the net but not so difficult of removing and refusing those who wish to spread this hate . Have you ever stopped and wondered why these radical clerics and head honchos of these organisations never put themselves in the firing line but yet encourage other men women and children into doing these acts ? Its about power and having the power for people to carry out their wishes .
Looking at it another way all this kind of act that happened yesterday will fuel support for the bnp and edl and if that gains momentum then who knows where it could lead to . We need to try and put as much a stop to things like this as we can now before tit for tat becomes the norm and esculates from there to something more serious .
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Have you ever stopped and wondered why these radical clerics and head honchos of these organisations never put themselves in the firing line but yet encourage other men women and children into doing these
Have you ever stopped and realised that's what politicians of every stripe do the world over?
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Have you ever stopped and wondered why these radical clerics and head honchos of these organisations never put themselves in the firing line but yet encourage other men women and children into doing these
Have you ever stopped and realised that's what politicians of every stripe do the world over?
yes i have and i understand and accept the point you are making but at least we can vote them in and out in a fully democratic society . At least wr are not brainwashed into thinking that becoming a suicide bomber is the way ahead or that killing someone in the middle of the street in cold blood will make people come round to their way of thinking. All it will do and has done is cause huge divides in this country , tolerence of other faiths will become eroded , innocent muslims will be targeted just because they are muslims . The EDl abd BNP will gain ground and carry out reprisals such as they did last night . It will end up in a vicious circle and no one will be better for it in the long run. That is why we need to stamp it out as much as we can now and not allow it to simmer under the surface as one day it will boil over with far reaching consequences. Do you or anyone else want to live in a country where hatred is rife or live in a tolerent society where people can live side by side pushing this country forward.
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I wonder why cobra didn't convene when a Muslim man was brutally stabbed to death by a white man a few weeks ago in Birmingham?
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I wonder why cobra didn't convene when a Muslim man was brutally stabbed to death by a white man a few weeks ago in Birmingham?
No evidence to suggest this was a racist attack, or an attack that could have implications on national security.
These men have clearly stated on camera what their motives were. Plus it was an attack against a serving solider, a few feet away from his barracks which could have implications on national security.
That good enough?
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Have you ever stopped and wondered why these radical clerics and head honchos of these organisations never put themselves in the firing line but yet encourage other men women and children into doing these
Have you ever stopped and realised that's what politicians of every stripe do the world over?
yes i have and i understand and accept the point you are making but at least we can vote them in and out in a fully democratic society . At least wr are not brainwashed into thinking that becoming a suicide bomber is the way ahead or that killing someone in the middle of the street in cold blood will make people come round to their way of thinking. All it will do and has done is cause huge divides in this country , tolerence of other faiths will become eroded , innocent muslims will be targeted just because they are muslims . The EDl abd BNP will gain ground and carry out reprisals such as they did last night . It will end up in a vicious circle and no one will be better for it in the long run. That is why we need to stamp it out as much as we can now and not allow it to simmer under the surface as one day it will boil over with far reaching consequences. Do you or anyone else want to live in a country where hatred is rife or live in a tolerent society where people can live side by side pushing this country forward.
Inflaming tensions with the likes of the EDL was what they were attempting to do. The brave lady who spoke to them keeping them distracted and calm while the police arrived said they told her they wanted to start a war in London last night.
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exactly my point river don inflame tensions and these people get the outcome they want on both sides . For the EDl and the like get to on bandwagon and recruit more supporters . For the perprtrators more reason to carry out there so called holy war , in which i may add before someone misquotes me has nothing to do with the koran and the way muslims practise their faith
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I wonder why cobra didn't convene when a Muslim man was brutally stabbed to death by a white man a few weeks ago in Birmingham?
No evidence to suggest this was a racist attack, or an attack that could have implications on national security.
These men have clearly stated on camera what their motives were. Plus it was an attack against a serving solider, a few feet away from his barracks which could have implications on national security.
That good enough?
Ah yes, of course it wasn't racially motivated...
Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely sickened to the stomach by what has happened, but the ignorance displayed by a lot of people is just astounding. You can't judge a whole section of society based on the actions of a minority.... Do you judge every white man from Manchester by Dale Cregan? Do you judge every Christian by Anders Breivik?
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I wonder why cobra didn't convene when a Muslim man was brutally stabbed to death by a white man a few weeks ago in Birmingham?
No evidence to suggest this was a racist attack, or an attack that could have implications on national security.
These men have clearly stated on camera what their motives were. Plus it was an attack against a serving solider, a few feet away from his barracks which could have implications on national security.
That good enough?
Ah yes, of course it wasn't racially motivated...
Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely sickened to the stomach by what has happened, but the ignorance displayed by a lot of people is just astounding. You can't judge a whole section of society based on the actions of a minority.... Do you judge every white man from Manchester by Dale Cregan? Do you judge every Christian by Anders Breivik?
Oh no, I agree with you. People are tarring all muslims with the same brush, which is disgusting. However I was replying to your comment of COBRA meeting to discuss a murder in Birmingham, which they wouldn't get involved with at all for the reasons I mentioned.
The UK is in danger of slipping into a very racist culture, unless the root cause of the problems we face is stamped out.
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But deportation for immigrants who have terrorist connections should definitely happen.
It depends whether you think it's better to keep them here where you can keep an eye on them and their contacts etc., or risk them slipping back into the country unknown and losing them.
Simple it should be procedure to give or take an DNA sample Of every single person that wants to relocate with the UK from wherever.
Then you Will have a better idea Who is on the streets Of the UK and what they are upto.
Same should be done if any brit wants to relocate In
Another country.
It Will not stop acts øke other day in woolich,but at least Its a start.
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So every single person who currently lives here and isn't homegrown should be 'sent back' incase they one day decide to kill someone?
Apparently. So much for defending freedom of speech, expression and belief for all those people who go about their lives in a peaceful and lawful manner. Look at someone in a funny way and you're fair game...the Thought Police become a reality. How long before we have the Stasi?
Who said anything about sending all non home grown immigrants back? Really - who?!
Some people on here are deliberately misinterpreting points in order to help their failing political arguments.
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But deportation for immigrants who have terrorist connections should definitely happen.
It depends whether you think it's better to keep them here where you can keep an eye on them and their contacts etc., or risk them slipping back into the country unknown and losing them.
Simple it should be procedure to give or take an DNA sample Of every single person that wants to relocate with the UK from wherever.
Then you Will have a better idea Who is on the streets Of the UK and what they are upto.
Same should be done if any brit wants to relocate In
Another country.
It Will not stop acts øke other day in woolich,but at least Its a start.
How will having a DNA sample help detect someone smuggling themselves back into the country? And how will it tell you what anyone is up to?
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But deportation for immigrants who have terrorist connections should definitely happen.
It depends whether you think it's better to keep them here where you can keep an eye on them and their contacts etc., or risk them slipping back into the country unknown and losing them.
Simple it should be procedure to give or take an DNA sample Of every single person that wants to relocate with the UK from wherever.
Then you Will have a better idea Who is on the streets Of the UK and what they are upto.
Same should be done if any brit wants to relocate In
Another country.
It Will not stop acts øke other day in woolich,but at least Its a start.
How will having a DNA sample help detect someone smuggling themselves back into the country? And how will it tell you what anyone is up to?
You can bet Your last dollar that any person Who has to smuggle them sens back into whatever country,Will sooner or later come to attention Of local Police,Then Its bobs yer UNcle.
I moved to norway 20 Odd years back,if i had to have my DNA taken Then i go into a life Of whatever crime,it Will not be too long for Police to have me in the slammer .
Also they could send my DNA back to UK to cross check and see what or what i was not all about in the UK.
Take that taxi driver from eastern europe Who within two moNths og Been given the all clear to live in UK had raped one Of his female passageners one nite.
It turns out that the taxi driver had allready done 10years slopping out ,back in his own country for multi rapes When he was a taxi driver back home.
Do yountjink if boarder controll knew hevast a serious rapist in his home lad he would have got the all clear to
Settle in UK?
I hope not
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They'd have no power to stop him entering the country, unless I'm mistaken, so yes...
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This guy from the EDL has some good points regarding the ideology's. He talks a lot of shite as well, but some of the statistics he quotes are correct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4AxfYF5L8
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How can anyone justify not bringing back the death penalty for terrorists after what has happened today in Woolwich?
Yeah , great idea. Lets turn two nutters into martyrs and heroes. Lets kill killers, killing's the way forward i'nt it? Get some Jesus in your life.
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[/quote]I sense a bigger plot here i'm afraid.
Glad we've got our best man on the case.
You're good LJM.
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How can anyone justify not bringing back the death penalty for terrorists after what has happened today in Woolwich?
Yeah , great idea. Lets turn two nutters into martyrs and heroes. Lets kill killers, killing's the way forward i'nt it? Get some Jesus in your life.
Yeah, you`re right, lets just put them in prison, feed them for the rest of their lives, give them TV`s, playstations, xbox`s etc, lets give them a cushy job inside prison and pay them, all at the expense of the taxpayer in already over crowded prisons!
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If you think that those two would have a cushy life in prison you're deluded.
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If you think that those two would have a cushy life in prison you're deluded.
My mum has worked in prisons for a long time. Trust me, they won't suffer
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If you think that those two would have a cushy life in prison you're deluded.
They`ll be protected in prison, they`ll be kept away from other prisoners that are likely to seek retribution, yes they`ll probably be in solitary confinement, meaning it would cost even more money to keep them, I`d sooner see the little boy that`s been left fatherless because of the actions of these scumbags benefit from the money that will be spent keeping these animals breathing for 50+ years. If we`re not going to execute them, lets at least have a Guantanamo Bay type facility on one of our uninhabited islands and keep them in chains for the rest of their lives and make it a miserable as possible for them
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If you think that those two would have a cushy life in prison you're deluded.
They`ll be protected in prison, they`ll be kept away from other prisoners that are likely to seek retribution, yes they`ll probably be in solitary confinement, meaning it would cost even more money to keep them, I`d sooner see the little boy that`s been left fatherless because of the actions of these scumbags benefit from the money that will be spent keeping these animals breathing for 50+ years. If we`re not going to execute them, lets at least have a Guantanamo Bay type facility on one of our uninhabited islands and keep them in chains for the rest of their lives and make it a miserable as possible for them
Of course they'll be protected. Or they'll be set to a prison with a population of other terrorists. They like to keep them closely knit.
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If you think that those two would have a cushy life in prison you're deluded.
My mum has worked in prisons for a long time. Trust me, they won't suffer
Really? You've not mentioned it....
I guess it depends on what you define as cushy and suffering doesn't it.
A life of solitary confidement, even with a PS3 doesn't sound like much fun to me.
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If you think that those two would have a cushy life in prison you're deluded.
My mum has worked in prisons for a long time. Trust me, they won't suffer
Really? You've not mentioned it....
I guess it depends on what you define as cushy and suffering doesn't it.
A life of solitary confidement, even with a PS3 doesn't sound like much fun to me.
It's still more than what is deserved. And to be honest, like I said, there's a good chance they'll be in a prison with other people who have been found guilty of terrorism. There is a prison somewhere, can't remember where, where a wing is dedicated to terrorists.
And what happens when they're eligible for parole?
Yeah she's a prison nurse.
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If you think that those two would have a cushy life in prison you're deluded.
My mum has worked in prisons for a long time. Trust me, they won't suffer
Really? You've not mentioned it....
I guess it depends on what you define as cushy and suffering doesn't it.
A life of solitary confidement, even with a PS3 doesn't sound like much fun to me.
I suppose it`s a damn sight more enjoyable than hanging from a noose, or being hacked to death
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MF - You seriously think they'll ever get parole?
Filo - Depends doesn't it, it seems like they wanted to die, I imagine they would rather hang then spend their days in a cell.
Either way it just boils down to whether you agree in the death penalty.
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This guy from the EDL has some good points regarding the ideology's. He talks a lot of shite as well, but some of the statistics he quotes are correct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4AxfYF5L8
=1369336352]
They'd have no power to stop him entering the country, unless I'm mistaken, so yes...
Anyone recall how shocked the Nation was enoch powells predictions many many Moons ago.
Turns out mr powell was way beyond his time.
This edl Chap could be todays enoch powell?
Has a very good point about the non extreme muslims
Not standing up to be counted against the extreme muslims.
I think the recent event in woolich might be turning the tide within the non extreme muslims tbh.
But i Dread what to think UK could be like in 30 or more years.
It seems that in general anything related to muslims is treated with kid glooves on as not to upset them Ffs.
The powers that be just about put a stop to the FV culture with some very strong armed policing,prison sentence passports to be handed in When national team play away,and the game is just about cleaned up.
Bout time powers that be used Much stronger tatics on extreme muslims and can start by chucking any preacher Of Such pratice into the slammer and fcuk his or hets freedom Of speech b*llocks.
What about are human rights to feal safe in our cities towns and streets?
[/quote]
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I wonder why cobra didn't convene when a Muslim man was brutally stabbed to death by a white man a few weeks ago in Birmingham?
For the record ...muslim... Is not a race as its an IDEA,
But the powers that be have turned that fact on Its head by giving out punishment for Been racist towards
The muslims.
Just part Of the fact that the powers are bending over backwards to Help the muslims wrong or right.
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You know sometimes when you just can't believe what you are reading....
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You know sometimes when you just can't believe what you are reading....
It works both ways sometimes duck.
But i Will allways accept opinions Of others in most cases
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This guy from the EDL has some good points regarding the ideology's. He talks a lot of shite as well, but some of the statistics he quotes are correct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4AxfYF5L8
=1369336352]
They'd have no power to stop him entering the country, unless I'm mistaken, so yes...
Anyone recall how shocked the Nation was enoch powells predictions many many Moons ago.
Turns out mr powell was way beyond his time.
This edl Chap could be todays enoch powell?
Has a very good point about the non extreme muslims
Not standing up to be counted against the extreme muslims.
I think the recent event in woolich might be turning the tide within the non extreme muslims tbh.
But i Dread what to think UK could be like in 30 or more years.
It seems that in general anything related to muslims is treated with kid glooves on as not to upset them Ffs.
The powers that be just about put a stop to the FV culture with some very strong armed policing,prison sentence passports to be handed in When national team play away,and the game is just about cleaned up.
Bout time powers that be used Much stronger tatics on extreme muslims and can start by chucking any preacher Of Such pratice into the slammer and fcuk his or hets freedom Of speech b*llocks.
What about are human rights to feal safe in our cities towns and streets?
[/quote]
But even then we couldn't stop them being here if they're born British, and we can't stop them entering really if they're born EU, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make exactly.
But then we all welcome your well rounded approach to all things foreign, eh..
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This guy from the EDL has some good points regarding the ideology's. He talks a lot of shite as well, but some of the statistics he quotes are correct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4AxfYF5L8
=1369336352]
They'd have no power to stop him entering the country, unless I'm mistaken, so yes...
Anyone recall how shocked the Nation was enoch powells predictions many many Moons ago.
Turns out mr powell was way beyond his time.
This edl Chap could be todays enoch powell?
Has a very good point about the non extreme muslims
Not standing up to be counted against the extreme muslims.
I think the recent event in woolich might be turning the tide within the non extreme muslims tbh.
But i Dread what to think UK could be like in 30 or more years.
It seems that in general anything related to muslims is treated with kid glooves on as not to upset them Ffs.
The powers that be just about put a stop to the FV culture with some very strong armed policing,prison sentence passports to be handed in When national team play away,and the game is just about cleaned up.
Bout time powers that be used Much stronger tatics on extreme muslims and can start by chucking any preacher Of Such pratice into the slammer and fcuk his or hets freedom Of speech b*llocks.
What about are human rights to feal safe in our cities towns and streets?
But even then we couldn't stop them being here if they're born British, and we can't stop them entering really if they're born EU, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make exactly.
But then we all welcome your well rounded approach to all things foreign, eh..
[/quote]
My point Been that the government needs to step up a few more gears to clamp down on the extreme muslims.
If you start from the top,say the pillocks that preach Their vile via Internett or street level or Even from the mosque,bang them up for life if needs be.
Then work Your way down the extreme network.
For sure my ideas come off back Of a beer mat after a few pints in me local,but Its the governments job to make our streets feal safe not mine,to which the government is not got right todate.
I dont want the normal muslims to be restricted just the extreme ones
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See now I know what the f**k you're on about you do have a good point.
But the problem is actually tracking them down, and actually stopping them. If they're broadcasting from abroad, we get into the realms of banning internet content. And who knows where that could stop if the government feel it's okay to do it to one group of people.
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See now I know what the f*** you're on about you do have a good point.
But the problem is actually tracking them down, and actually stopping them. If they're broadcasting from abroad, we get into the realms of banning internet content. And who knows where that could stop if the government feel it's okay to do it to one group of people.
There needs to be lot more strict no fcuking about starting point on how our government copes with the extreme muslim issues.
Another point that edl Chap pointed out was that if somes were on the open market and muslims could not apply,they would be hell on from just about all corners.
As he points out Thou that due to muslim culture only muslims are allowed to work in Their Meat trade,which is so wrong for sole fact if other way round There would be many many unhappy bunnys and no fcuker is up in arms about it.
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
No fella,but i used too for 30years
Strange question to Ask,as i dont effect me views
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
No fella,but i used too for 30years
Strange question to Ask,as i dont effect me views
Maybe it doesn't affect your views, but I think it affects your right to assert those views. You talk about what 'we", and "us", should do with "our" country, when in all truth it's got nothing to do with you. Sort your own country out first.
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Has a very good point about the non extreme muslims
Not standing up to be counted against the extreme muslims.
No he doesn't, it's the crappest point these racists spout and all the kneejerkers fall for it.
Did we expect the non-extreme Catholics to 'stand up to be counted' against the IRA, as if somehow it was their responsibility to control them?
Did we expect the people of Yorkshire to 'stand up and be counted' against the Yorkshire Ripper, as if it was somehow their responsibility to catch him?
Did we expect non-violent football supporters to 'stand up and be counted' against the hooligan problem as if it was somehow theior fault that it happened?
No we didn't, because it wasn't their responsibilty. At all. It was the repsonsibility of the authorities.
Yet the racists love to shove the blame back on the people they're prejudiced against, in order to further paint that community as different to ours. It's clever. And unfortunately it works.
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
No fella,but i used too for 30years
Strange question to Ask,as i dont effect me views
Maybe it doesn't affect your views, but I think it affects your right to assert those views. You talk about what 'we", and "us", should do with "our" country, when in all truth it's got nothing to do with you. Sort your own country out first.
England is my country you fcuking plum
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Has a very good point about the non extreme muslims
Not standing up to be counted against the extreme muslims.
No he doesn't, it's the crappest point these racists spout and all the kneejerkers fall for it.
Did we expect the non-extreme Catholics to 'stand up to be counted' against the IRA, as if somehow it was their responsibility to control them?
Did we expect the people of Yorkshire to 'stand up and be counted' against the Yorkshire Ripper, as if it was somehow their responsibility to catch him?
Did we expect non-violent football supporters to 'stand up and be counted' against the hooligan problem as if it was somehow theior fault that it happened?
No we didn't, because it wasn't their responsibilty. At all. It was the repsonsibility of the authorities.
Yet the racists love to shove the blame back on the people they're prejudiced against, in order to further paint that community as different to ours. It's clever. And unfortunately it works.
Wake up and smell the coffee fella as the non extreme irish catholics Have walked the streets in protest against
The IRA When needs be all in the need for peace.
And Funny enough it helps and works
And for the record iam no racist
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Has a very good point about the non extreme muslims
Not standing up to be counted against the extreme muslims.
No he doesn't, it's the crappest point these racists spout and all the kneejerkers fall for it.
Did we expect the non-extreme Catholics to 'stand up to be counted' against the IRA, as if somehow it was their responsibility to control them?
Did we expect the people of Yorkshire to 'stand up and be counted' against the Yorkshire Ripper, as if it was somehow their responsibility to catch him?
Did we expect non-violent football supporters to 'stand up and be counted' against the hooligan problem as if it was somehow theior fault that it happened?
No we didn't, because it wasn't their responsibilty. At all. It was the repsonsibility of the authorities.
Yet the racists love to shove the blame back on the people they're prejudiced against, in order to further paint that community as different to ours. It's clever. And unfortunately it works.
Wake up and smell the coffee fella as the non extreme irish catholics Have walked the streets in protest against
The IRA When needs be all in the need for peace.
And Funny enough it helps and works
And for the record iam no racist
So what do you expect the Muslim community to do that they aren't already doing? Go on a walk?
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
No fella,but i used too for 30years
Strange question to Ask,as i dont effect me views
Maybe it doesn't affect your views, but I think it affects your right to assert those views. You talk about what 'we", and "us", should do with "our" country, when in all truth it's got nothing to do with you. Sort your own country out first.
England is my country you fcuking plum
Well! That's got to be the first time I've been insulted by a homesick ex-pat retired football hooligan. I take it fcuking plum is an insult.
-
Has a very good point about the non extreme muslims
Not standing up to be counted against the extreme muslims.
No he doesn't, it's the crappest point these racists spout and all the kneejerkers fall for it.
Did we expect the non-extreme Catholics to 'stand up to be counted' against the IRA, as if somehow it was their responsibility to control them?
Did we expect the people of Yorkshire to 'stand up and be counted' against the Yorkshire Ripper, as if it was somehow their responsibility to catch him?
Did we expect non-violent football supporters to 'stand up and be counted' against the hooligan problem as if it was somehow theior fault that it happened?
No we didn't, because it wasn't their responsibilty. At all. It was the repsonsibility of the authorities.
Yet the racists love to shove the blame back on the people they're prejudiced against, in order to further paint that community as different to ours. It's clever. And unfortunately it works.
Sorry, Glyn, I have to take issue with you here. Some very brave people within the Irish Catholic/ Nationalist community did take a stand against the IRA. People like Gerry Fitt and Austin Currie. Without them, people in the rest of the UK would have thought that the likes of Adams and McGuinness were the authentic voice of Irish catholics. Mind you, if we follow the logic of the "peace process" in Northern Ireland then in ten years time we'll be ruled by a government led by Nick Griffin with Anjum Chaudhry as his deputy- and every part of the country a no-go area for one side or the other.
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The middle ground. Has anybody seen it?
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The death penalty. If you'd asked me 10 years ago I'd have said yes, definitely. Now, on balance, I'm against. I do think it's a powerful deterrent, but the people it would deter are not the people who (by and large) commit the worst crimes- serial killers, psycopaths, terrorists, paedophiles. They would murder anyway, and there's always the risk that you hang an innocent person.
Where I would disagree with current policy is that I think life should mean life. We can argue about which types of murder should lead to a whole-life sentence (and I'm open to debate about the idea of first and second degree murder), but the people who killed that soldier should be facing the rest of their life behind bars.
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Has a very good point about the non extreme muslims
Not standing up to be counted against the extreme muslims.
No he doesn't, it's the crappest point these racists spout and all the kneejerkers fall for it.
Did we expect the non-extreme Catholics to 'stand up to be counted' against the IRA, as if somehow it was their responsibility to control them?
Did we expect the people of Yorkshire to 'stand up and be counted' against the Yorkshire Ripper, as if it was somehow their responsibility to catch him?
Did we expect non-violent football supporters to 'stand up and be counted' against the hooligan problem as if it was somehow theior fault that it happened?
No we didn't, because it wasn't their responsibilty. At all. It was the repsonsibility of the authorities.
Yet the racists love to shove the blame back on the people they're prejudiced against, in order to further paint that community as different to ours. It's clever. And unfortunately it works.
Sorry, Glyn, I have to take issue with you here. Some very brave people within the Irish Catholic/ Nationalist community did take a stand against the IRA. People like Gerry Fitt and Austin Currie. Without them, people in the rest of the UK would have thought that the likes of Adams and McGuinness were the authentic voice of Irish catholics. Mind you, if we follow the logic of the "peace process" in Northern Ireland then in ten years time we'll be ruled by a government led by Nick Griffin with Anjum Chaudhry as his deputy- and every part of the country a no-go area for one side or the other.
Yes, I agree some. And yes they were brave, being under threat of fatal reprisals. However, that's individuals, not the whole community. But the point I was making was that nobody expected the whole Nationalist community to somehow be able to control the terrorists.
I've yet to hear the EDL demand that just some of the Islamic community do something. No, they expect the whole community to somehow do something (what, they never actually say - surprise, surprise).
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
No fella,but i used too for 30years
Strange question to Ask,as i dont effect me views
Maybe it doesn't affect your views, but I think it affects your right to assert those views. You talk about what 'we", and "us", should do with "our" country, when in all truth it's got nothing to do with you. Sort your own country out first.
England is my country you fcuking plum
Well! That's got to be the first time I've been insulted by a homesick ex-pat retired football hooligan. I take it fcuking plum is an insult.
I was put on my back foot,to which i came back fella.
You can take it what ever way you feal
Now iam a tad plumish...homesick you said...my
Arsè
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
No fella,but i used too for 30years
Strange question to Ask,as i dont effect me views
Maybe it doesn't affect your views, but I think it affects your right to assert those views. You talk about what 'we", and "us", should do with "our" country, when in all truth it's got nothing to do with you. Sort your own country out first.
England is my country you fcuking plum
Well! That's got to be the first time I've been insulted by a homesick ex-pat retired football hooligan. I take it fcuking plum is an insult.
I was put on my back foot,to which i came back fella.
You can take it what ever way you feal
Now iam a tad plumish...homesick you said...my
Arsè
I sorry, I don't understand a word you're saying.
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
i didnt for 15 years but yet i gave worn my union flag on my arm every day at work . A persons homeland is a persons homeland. So in my book is more than entitled rightly or wrongly to their view.
One thing that has been proved by the tragic actions of wednesday is that it will divide everyone in many ways on how we deal with it and what action should and should have been taken. Anyone else get the feeling thats what these pricks wanted.Even on a football forum it has us divided and we all share a common goal with our club yet we are argueing about it . Thats what this shit does divides everyone.
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
i didnt for 15 years but yet i gave worn my union flag on my arm every day at work . A persons homeland is a persons homeland. So in my book is more than entitled rightly or wrongly to their view.
One thing that has been proved by the tragic actions of wednesday is that it will divide everyone in many ways on how we deal with it and what action should and should have been taken. Anyone else get the feeling thats what these pricks wanted.Even on a football forum it has us divided and we all share a common goal with our club yet we are argueing about it . Thats what this shit does divides everyone.
I dont feal as Thou iam having an argument,just trying to stand my ground on what i think,as others find it hard to live with my views.
Its not what happens in my life time that really worrys me,but iam shit scared for my kids life time and any off spring they knock out.that scares me to death tbh how britian,europe Will be in 30,40 or more years.
Just look at sweden Now with gangs Of immirgrants causing havoc setting fire to schools,cars all because Of the gap in the social way Of living.
Fcuk me they land in sweden,live off the benafit system with no real lust for work are up in arms because they dont have a good wedge in back pockets.
Sweden as bent over backwards to accomadte different
Cultures from africa and eastern europe,but the swedish have Stuck Their heads in the sand and Now
Are asking why?
Far too many cultures from out Of sweden all plotted up in the same parts Of cities,Hence a type Of getto syndrome.
Same is going to happen downtown Oslo way things look.
One major problem is that you Get a good payment Of Norwegian Kr each month for each kid you have,which is meant to Help send the kids to day schools.
Here the kids can pick up the Norwegian lanuage,but that dont as the african parents keep the kids at home,Then send them to school at age Of 6 When Its free and the kids have no idea Of the norsk lanuage,Hence holding other more forward norsk speaking Norwegians back in class.
Which in turn brings in ...white flight....where whites move out Of the city into outside areas and more immirgrants are housed in vaccant housing.
Me and the wife did This two years ago as we did not want are kids going to the local school in Oslo which was back Then hitting over 35 per cent non norsk,and it was and still id having social problems left right and centre.
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oslo dont get me wrong some of your views i agree with on this and some i dont . I think any sane person can see that all that has happened this week and previously will have a detrimental effect on this country . How much and how far it will go no one knows but it wont be a happy outcome if it continues thats for sure. tit for tat all over the place is my guess. I think that its a good thing that even though you dont live in uk anymore that you are still concerned about whats happening , as i said justbecause you dont live here now shouldnt mean that shouldnt be concerned
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Fcuk me some terrorist Police officer has Been stabbed in the neck in Paris tonight.
They are looking for an north african man wearing
The bog standard muslim clothing,with a Beard too.
This as got to be a knock on from woolich?
The real or proper muslims must be thinking WTF.
There is going to be many more tears i fear.
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not good not good at all
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Oslorovers, do you live in England?
No fella,but i used too for 30years
Strange question to Ask,as i dont effect me views
Maybe it doesn't affect your views, but I think it affects your right to assert those views. You talk about what 'we", and "us", should do with "our" country, when in all truth it's got nothing to do with you. Sort your own country out first.
Nice one rovers, kindly re-read your post.
Now, do I really need to explain why that comment is not only incredibly ignorant, but also offensive to those of us whom do not currently reside in the UK?
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I think the point being made is that although they might garner some insight from the media - with the associated bias - how can someone who does not live in the UK, and has not done so for some time, have a particularly up to date picture of the state of UK society.
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I think the point being made is that although they might garner some insight from the media - with the
associated bias - how can someone who does not live
in the UK, and has not done so for some time, have a particularly up to date picture of the state of UK society.
Its simple fella....eyes and ears helps wonders.
Was around westhams ground couple Of years back for the first since a matchday in 1983.
And what a turn around as it was spot the white man
And This was a none matchday.
Same can be said for parts Of bham,Leicester,luton.
The fact that there is Now 84 primary schools in England that has non british kids in attendence,tells
A story in it self.
London is Now populated by 48 per cent british People,the other 52per cent are from all over the shop.
And that figure Will go up and up as white flight kicks
More in.
White flight is When a neighbourhood hits 28 per cent
Of immigrants,and at This point the british residents
Move out to new pastures away from the city.to be replaced by more immirgrants,Hence to point out so and so on.
There are many parts Of England today where it is not safe for a white person to walk in certian parts Of towns or citys.oldham and luton Been prime examples
Sorry to say.
But on the other hand it is safe for any immirgrant to
Walk anywhere in any town or city in England.
This is not a far right politital punt Its just FACT.
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London in ethnic diversity shocker! It's not the whole country though is it Oslo. England and Wales is 86% white, and 91% of the population identify with a UK national identity (English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish or British)
You also seem to be unable to differentiate between the terms fact and opinion, and ethnicity and nationality.
Here's a poser. Based on your analysis, is a white Polish immigrant safe to walk in Oldham or Luton?
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London in ethnic diversity shocker! It's not the whole country though is it Oslo. England and Wales is 86% white, and 91% of the population identify with a UK national identity (English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish or British)
You also seem to be unable to differentiate between the terms fact and opinion, and ethnicity and nationality.
Here's a poser. Based on your analysis, is a white Polish immigrant safe to walk in Oldham or Luton?
The said white polish immirgrant would not be safe to walk in certian parts Of oldham and luton,for sole reason that he is white.
Its a sorry fact and state Of affairs but it needs to be said that There Will allways be the grep area where ever cultures mix.
Let me spin you This one.
This is in norway,but Its the mind set Of This immirgrant from africa that i Will try to Get Across.
He was telling me that he landed in norway nearly 4years ago claiming asylum on his own.
Like all other asylum seekers Who land in norway he was put into an holding camp in the middle Of norway place called ottå.
This used to be an hotel,but Now just holds asylum seekers.he has to Stay at said hotel for best part Of a year while his claim is prosessed.
The day comes When the Norwegian government grants him his asylum in norway,and he is found a job
A small place to live in an small town off the beaten track.
So far so good.
He Now wants to claim aslyum for his wife and 3kids back in africa,i would have done the same.
After sometime of the same process his wife and 3 kids
Are granted asylum from Norwegian government.
Now This is where it starts to Get shity in my book.
Mum,dad and 3kids are put into a house into small town somewhere in norway and he has a job.
But Its not too long before the familybare Now demanding to be moved to Oslo as they dont want to be idolated in This small hick town where they have Been placed.ffs he was claiming asylum from his own country as it was not safe apparantly.
Now he demands to be moved to Oslo.
The family Get there wish and are relocated in Oslo,with a job too for the man.but he still is not happy as the house in Oslo is too small for his family.
So he demands a Much bigger house.problem is that There is No way he can afford to rent Such a place oh his Wage.
So the Norwegian government move him into a bigger house and agree to pay half his rent.
He pays 10,000kr a month while the government pay the other 10,000kr.
10,000kr equals 1,000pounds.
I Asked why he was not happy with what he was given
As in aslyum for him and family,place to live with s job....but still he demands more and more
....his answer...'because Its my right'
I felt Sick and mad,fcuk me if want a Much bigger house i have to upgrade my job or do shit Loads Of overtime.
You can bet your bet your last dollar that he is not the only aslyum seeker going about things that way.
Shocking
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The said white polish immirgrant would not be safe to walk in certian parts Of oldham and luton,for sole reason that he is white.
I'm sure you said " it is safe for any immigrant to walk anywhere in any town or city in England"?
And with regards to your African friend, old white man saying: "don't hate the player, hate the game".
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The said white polish immirgrant would not be safe to walk in certian parts Of oldham and luton,for sole reason that he is white.
I'm sure you said " it is safe for any immigrant to walk anywhere in any town or city in England"?
And with regards to your African friend, old white man saying: "don't hate the player, hate the game".
Good Saying that about the player and game When you
Think about it tbh.
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I think the point being made is that although they might garner some insight from the media - with the associated bias - how can someone who does not live in the UK, and has not done so for some time, have a particularly up to date picture of the state of UK society.
TBF the point being made (by the other poster) was clearly that if you don't live in England, then it's not your country anymore, and therefore none of your business.
As for staying informed, it's not difficult. Pretty much my entire family still resides in Donny, and these days it's as easy to stay up to date with UK politics from Florida as it is from Yorkshire, or anywhere else for that matter.
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Death penalty?
No. Regardless of this particular case where the CRIMINALS are obviously guilty, wherever there is a chance of a wrong conviction then if a death penalty is applied there is no chance of correcting this.
Also remember that courts convict on the decision of juries who make that decision on guilt by forming their opinion of the evidence presented, plenty of room for miscarriages of justice by reason of wrong evidence, perjury, prejudice of jurors, missing evidence, accused people being framed or fitted up.
This is not to say that those found guilty of crimes, such as these two, should not be punished. Yes perhaps the prison regime could be more harsh - I don't know enough about it to make a judgement.
As an aside, I once worked with a man who was wrongly accused of child abduction - the accusers did it out of spite - who was convicted and sentenced to 4 years in prison. He won his appeal eventually, but his life was ruined. Imagine if he had been hanged eh?
And please, can the media refer to these idiots who killed the soldier as murderers or criminals? Terrorists are criminals first - their race or religion is irrelevant - they are criminals, period.