Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Boomstick on November 10, 2013, 11:45:24 am
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The vsc should be ashamed of themselves, without John Ryan there would be no club. Why wouldn't you back him?
The vsc have made their bed, shown their true colours.
I think it's time for an alternative supporters group, or does one exist?
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That would be the supporters' club, wouldn't it?
They seem to be for the takeover, or were last time I looked.
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The vsc should be ashamed of themselves, without John Ryan there would be no club. Why wouldn't you back him?
The vsc have made their bed, shown their true colours.
I think it's time for an alternative supporters group, or does one exist?
Stop looking for a scapegoat, JR made his own decision, no one pushed him!
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On the contrary filo, it looks like he was left with no option
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The reason we have been so successful in the last 15 years is because we have had such a healthy heart. JR was that heart. His passion and enthusiasm infected the club in a way money alone couldn't. The heart has now been ripped out.
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On the contrary filo, it looks like he was left with no option
JR in his own words in one of the interviews yesterday said he had been considering resigning for several weeks, so this weeks events although being the catalyst for his resignation was only a small portion of the bigger picture. In my opinion he's been looking for an excuse to go and this week presented him with that excuse, like I said he wasn't pushed, his mind was probably already made up, he just needed the timing right to go out with all guns blazing. To blame the VSC and use them as a scapegoat is a bit pathetic really
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Why so negative about JR, Filo? I'm just interested...
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Why so negative about JR, Filo? I'm just interested...
It's not being negative, I have the greatest respect for his contribution to the club, but I'm not going to allow my self to be blinded by loyalty, I'm not privvy to any inside knowledge and I'm only saying things as I see them, that same philosophy goes with my judgement of anyone including members of the VSC board and officials
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The language you use and the examples you cite are strongly negative, tbh. Perhaps it's just your choice of language and your desire to offer an alternative viewpoint?
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Some people are wrongly interpreting criticisms of JR's Sequentia strategy as criticisms of JR's persona .
I have never been convinced by what I have found and heard about Sequentia but it has not altered my admiration for JR's commitment to Rovers. Having sent 40 years in the world of Financial Services I have come to understand that total transparency is essential in any deal ..
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I think JR has been looking for an exit for a while. He said at the AGM he wanted to sit back like a fan and watch this wonderful team the Irish were going to put together.
I can see why the idea of staying on as a figurehead would appeal but perhaps even that is off the agenda. He told Rob Staton he thought he wouldn't come back.
That might be true but if SC do finally takeover the club as JR hopes they will and his actions this weekend are designed to increase the pressure for it, I don't see why the SC offer wouldn't still be open to him.
Whatever, the truth is John Ryan doesn't want the hands on role anymore.
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The vsc should be ashamed of themselves, without John Ryan there would be no club. Why wouldn't you back him?
The vsc have made their bed, shown their true colours.
I think it's time for an alternative supporters group, or does one exist?
Can I make it clear that the VSC is not a supporters group/club. We are a trust and as one we have clear aims and objectives to ensure the longevity and sustainability of our football club.
We did not refuse to back John Ryan, we gave the entire DRFC board our full support to do what was best for the future of our football club.
We did not ask for JRs resignation, infact (unlike another supporters group) we didn't demand the resignation of any of the board members.
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Some people are wrongly interpreting criticisms of JR's Sequentia strategy as criticisms of JR's persona .
I have never been convinced by what I have found and heard about Sequentia but it has not altered my admiration for JR's commitment to Rovers. Having sent 40 years in the world of Financial Services I have come to understand that total transparency is essential in any deal ..
I can make a distinction between a man and a deal. Frankly, I am deeply suspicious of SQ but that doesn't put me, necessarily, in an anti JR camp... I'm talking about language used and tone. Filo's choices are - very specifically - negative. I was just interested why that was the case, is all.
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On the contrary filo, it looks like he was left with no option
JR in his own words in one of the interviews yesterday said he had been considering resigning for several weeks, so this weeks events although being the catalyst for his resignation was only a small portion of the bigger picture. In my opinion he's been looking for an excuse to go and this week presented him with that excuse, like I said he wasn't pushed, his mind was probably already made up, he just needed the timing right to go out with all guns blazing. To blame the VSC and use them as a scapegoat is a bit pathetic really
He also said its been going on for 3 or 4 months now, decisions being made without him, going behind his back, therefore left with no option.
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i think the problem is all the people at the head of the vsc more so filo have been pretty negative about jr without really giving a decwnt answer why. most of us on here have no idea whats going on with this investment but you seem to no something we dont,so without sharing it with us it just seems like youe very anti jr.
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i think the problem is all the people at the head of the vsc more so filo have been pretty negative about jr without really giving a decwnt answer why. most of us on here have no idea whats going on with this investment but you seem to no something we dont,so without sharing it with us it just seems like youe very anti jr.
Filo is a moderator and not a director (or at the head) of the VSC. He is a member like many on here and entitled to his own opinion.
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i think the problem is all the people at the head of the vsc more so filo have been pretty negative about jr without really giving a decwnt answer why. most of us on here have no idea whats going on with this investment but you seem to no something we dont,so without sharing it with us it just seems like youe very anti jr.
Filo is a moderator and not a director (or at the head) of the VSC. He is a member like many on here and entitled to his own opinion.
Thank you Lee, some folk seem to have trouble grasping the basics, I have never ben a Director of the VSC, I'm just a member that has an opinion
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Bpoolrover, how many more times do supporters want the VSC 's position clarifying?
1) we are not against investment or takeover
2) we are certainly not anti-JR. The bloke saved this club. How can anyone be anti-JR? We were just as shocked as anyone when he decided to tender his resignation yesterday.
3) we have a clear aim to safeguard the club for the future of supporters, borne from the events of 1997/8.
4) as a shareholder/stakeholder we asked questions surrounding SC which were not answered. Where is the money coming from? Who is behind the bid? What happens if the Rovers don't get promoted to the Premier League? What happens to the club if SC or their backers decide enough is enough?
5) we did our own investigations (as other fans did too) and found out very little of substance.
6) we were threatened by lawyers acting for SC due to comments made by fans on this site.
Given the complete lack of anything to substantiate the SC bid how on earth could we support it? We never once said we didn't trust John, just that we had no hard evidence to persuade us that we should support the SC bid.
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Absolutely agree that a person should have the right to express an opinion on an open forum (subject to taste and decency, etc). I was merely interested in why a senior VSC representative had such a strong opinion. Nothing other than an interest I should stress, as you presume that anyone representing the VSC - in any capacity - would be privy to a little more than the rest of us. Hence my question.
And whilst I think it's great that each VSC representative is entitled to their own opinion, is there not a danger that those of you with strong opinions could be seen to represent VSC's overall position on matters relating to Doncaster Rovers? Hence why folk on here initially assumed that the VSC was wholly anti the investment and why some feel that the VSC is strongly anti JR? Maybe it's something worth considering in the future?
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We have already been informed by Silent Majority that the VSC is not here to represent the supporters of DRFC but is a body elected to keep tabs of the club and ensure it goes the way they want it to.
It is a shame then that we don't have a fans forum where everyone can contribute without the VSC having to influnce most of the threads.
Wouldn't it be great to actually have a forum like many football clubs do, where the fans post comments about the team, management etc etc but are generally non political.
Instead of being for or against John Ryan, Terry Brammall, Sequentia or Uncle Tom Cobley wouldn't it be nice to discuss other things.
Maybe there should be part of this forum dedicated to VSC members only where they can discuss the saviours or pirates trying to plunder our club and leave the rest to discussion about team affairs, transfers etc etc.
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Isn't it simply that some people just assume that the VSC must be anti JR because the VSC have asked questions of the SC investment?
If you're not for us you must be against us?
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We have already been informed by Silent Majority that the VSC is not here to represent the supporters of DRFC but is a body elected to keep tabs of the club and ensure it goes the way they want it to.
It is a shame then that we don't have a fans forum where everyone can contribute without the VSC having to influnce most of the threads.
Wouldn't it be great to actually have a forum like many football clubs do, where the fans post comments about the team, management etc etc but are generally non political.
Instead of being for or against John Ryan, Terry Brammall, Sequentia or Uncle Tom Cobley wouldn't it be nice to discuss other things.
Maybe there should be part of this forum dedicated to VSC members only where they can discuss the saviours or pirates trying to plunder our club and leave the rest to discussion about team affairs, transfers etc etc.
1. This is a forum provided by the VSC but is available to any DRFC fan. Do you really want a forum your describing, or just one where your view is superior and anyone who thinks otherwise should be perished?
2. I would like you to discuss other things too Wellred, but sadly only 1 of your last 25 posts hasn't been on this subject.
3. There is a members only section Wellred, but it isn't just the VSC members that are starting or contributing to threads on this topic.
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Look Wellred I disagree with a lot of what you say but respect your right to make those comments. You will notice that VSC has not blocked any adverse comments made about them which allows you to make adverse comments about them. Isn't that exactly what you require?
The VSC board are in a very difficult position they are sitting ducks. I too have made criticism of the VSC and Filo in the past and if I was right or wrong is not important thats what this forum is about, debate.
If you were to disappear to another site where everyone agrees with everyone I think you will soon come back.
The VSC have done a fine job.
PS it was Wellred who convinced me it was a good idea to join the VSC.
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1. This is a forum provided by the VSC but is available to any DRFC fan. Do you really want a forum your describing, or just one where your view is superior and anyone who thinks otherwise should be perished?
Have I suggested at any time that my view is superior to anybody else NO
2. I would like you to discuss other things too Wellred, but sadly only 1 of your last 25 posts hasn't been on this subject.
I would probably suggest 24 out of my last 25 posts hve been either replies to or responses to comments about JR or TB etc etc. Have you ever tried having a discussion with yourself Mr Croft? I would be seriously worried if you did.
3. There is a members only section Wellred, but it isn't just the VSC members that are starting or contributing to threads on this topic.
Did I say it was only VSC members that are contributing to the threads on this topic?
What I was trying to say was wouldn't it be nice to have a section where there was no mention of the whole takeover saga.
It seems most VSC members (Especially directors) are entrenched in their views and nothing anyone says will change their minds so why keep on going round and round in ever decreasing circles.
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To be fair Wellred I don't think what anyone says will change your mind either, that happens on most topics with most posters. We all have a view.
While I agree it would be nice not to have a forum with no takeover talks, but sadly its up to our users to discuss what they want, who are any of us to disagree?
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Isn't it simply that some people just assume that the VSC must be anti JR because the VSC have asked questions of the SC investment?
If you're not for us you must be against us?
That's exactly what it is, RD. And a lot of this is coming from people who should know better. Maybe some of it has a hidden agenda.
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Look Wellred I disagree with a lot of what you say but respect your right to make those comments. You will notice that VSC has not blocked any adverse comments made about them which allows you to make adverse comments about them. Isn't that exactly what you require?
The VSC board are in a very difficult position they are sitting ducks. I too have made criticism of the VSC and Filo in the past and if I was right or wrong is not important thats what this forum is about, debate.
If you were to disappear to another site where everyone agrees with everyone I think you will soon come back.
The VSC have done a fine job.
PS it was Wellred who convinced me it was a good idea to join the VSC.
You are correct Alick that the VSC has not blocked any adverse comments. I personally have been threatened that I will be banned from the forum for comments I have made however so some people on here are not quite as liberal as you may think.
Maybe I am not putting across what I mean very clearly. What I am trying to say is we are going around and around. The fors are not going to change their opinion neither are the againsts.
We can carry on having a go at each other all day long. It is not going to achieve anything though is it?
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Isn't it simply that some people just assume that the VSC must be anti JR because the VSC have asked questions of the SC investment?
If you're not for us you must be against us?
That's exactly what it is, RD. And a lot of this is coming from people who should know better. Maybe some of it has a hidden agenda.
There is a certain amount of that, yes. But when VSC representatives express a bias/opinion then this can be latched onto and used by others as propaganda. It is an over-simplification to suggest it's just a basic assumption.
As I suggested, perhaps it's worth taking that on board.
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We can't win though, Lipsy. The fans ask us to clarify our position, we do that, and then it gets twisted that we are anti-JR. How does that happen?
We are not and have never been anti-JR and cannot see how any rovers supporter could be.
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I also appreciate that you're never going to win. However, I as nipped to the shop just now, I thought of this: If I had popped onto this forum for the first time in the last 24 hours or so and I read the comments about JR throwing his toys out of the pram, his petulance, his last desperate acts, how he had no right to feel aggrieved that the board had (allegedly) gone behind his back, the mistakes he'd made, etc - and picked up on the tone and language used, I reckon I could be forgiven for making the assumption that the VSC was anti JR.
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Look Wellred I disagree with a lot of what you say but respect your right to make those comments. You will notice that VSC has not blocked any adverse comments made about them which allows you to make adverse comments about them. Isn't that exactly what you require?
The VSC board are in a very difficult position they are sitting ducks. I too have made criticism of the VSC and Filo in the past and if I was right or wrong is not important thats what this forum is about, debate.
If you were to disappear to another site where everyone agrees with everyone I think you will soon come back.
The VSC have done a fine job.
PS it was Wellred who convinced me it was a good idea to join the VSC.
You are correct Alick that the VSC has not blocked any adverse comments. I personally have been threatened that I will be banned from the forum for comments I have made however so some people on here are not quite as liberal as you may think.
Maybe I am not putting across what I mean very clearly. What I am trying to say is we are going around and around. The fors are not going to change their opinion neither are the againsts.
We can carry on having a go at each other all day long. It is not going to achieve anything though is it?
Believe me Wellred if I thought you were going to be censored for your comments I would be 100% on your side to stop it happening. If rude or insulting comments are made thats different.
What amuses me is the poster who is 100% convinced they are right when in fact we only have bits and pieces from one side and we have still to get the other sides point of view.
I need more information before I make up my mind.
ROB,
Criticism goes with the job and yes you can't win but I appreciate the position VSC are in.
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Look Wellred I disagree with a lot of what you say but respect your right to make those comments. You will notice that VSC has not blocked any adverse comments made about them which allows you to make adverse comments about them. Isn't that exactly what you require?
The VSC board are in a very difficult position they are sitting ducks. I too have made criticism of the VSC and Filo in the past and if I was right or wrong is not important thats what this forum is about, debate.
If you were to disappear to another site where everyone agrees with everyone I think you will soon come back.
The VSC have done a fine job.
PS it was Wellred who convinced me it was a good idea to join the VSC.
You are correct Alick that the VSC has not blocked any adverse comments. I personally have been threatened that I will be banned from the forum for comments I have made however so some people on here are not quite as liberal as you may think.
Maybe I am not putting across what I mean very clearly. What I am trying to say is we are going around and around. The fors are not going to change their opinion neither are the againsts.
We can carry on having a go at each other all day long. It is not going to achieve anything though is it?
I'm being watched and was too threatened with a ban by someone hiding behind a general VSC account that wouldn't even say who he was when i asked. The reason for this? because a VSC board member had a pop at me so when i had a pop back they just abused the position they were in 'because they can'. I guess it's 1 rule for a VSC board member and another for a general supporter with a different opinion.
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I know exactly who it was that threatened me. And yes it was a vsc director.
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We have already been informed by Silent Majority that the VSC is not here to represent the supporters of DRFC but is a body elected to keep tabs of the club and ensure it goes the way they want it.
That's not what I said Wellred, don't twist my words to try and prove a point.
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Skellow,
I stand by what I said to Wellred
The fact someone has a different view to me or the VSC and expresses it in a respectful way the VSC should not threaten to censor anyone. But there has to be standards kept and whether you crossed the line I clearly do not know.
I have been censored for comments I made about a certain Irishman who is no longer interested in the TO at Donny. On reflection because of the threat of legal action it was a correct decision by the VSC and their action was explained to me later.
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We have already been informed by Silent Majority that the VSC is not here to represent the supporters of DRFC but is a body elected to keep tabs of the club and ensure it goes the way they want it.
That's not what I said Wellred, don't twist my words to try and prove a point.
All down to how you interpret things I guess.
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The vsc should be ashamed of themselves, without John Ryan there would be no club. Why wouldn't you back him?
The vsc have made their bed, shown their true colours.
I think it's time for an alternative supporters group, or does one exist?
Can I make it clear that the VSC is not a supporters group/club. We are a trust and as one we have clear aims and objectives to ensure the longevity and sustainability of our football club.
We did not refuse to back John Ryan, we gave the entire DRFC board our full support to do what was best for the future of our football club.
We did not ask for JRs resignation, infact (unlike another supporters group) we didn't demand the resignation of any of the board members.
I dont get it.I think that most people who pay into the VSC, are under the impression that that is what we are paying for, a Supporters Group to represent the supporters.
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The vsc should be ashamed of themselves, without John Ryan there would be no club. Why wouldn't you back him?
The vsc have made their bed, shown their true colours.
I think it's time for an alternative supporters group, or does one exist?
Can I make it clear that the VSC is not a supporters group/club. We are a trust and as one we have clear aims and objectives to ensure the longevity and sustainability of our football club.
We did not refuse to back John Ryan, we gave the entire DRFC board our full support to do what was best for the future of our football club.
We did not ask for JRs resignation, infact (unlike another supporters group) we didn't demand the resignation of any of the board members.
I dont get it.I think that most people who pay into the VSC, are under the impression that that is what we are paying for, a Supporters Group to represent the supporters.
I wonder how many others members think that?
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Bpoolrover, how many more times do supporters want the VSC 's position clarifying?
1) we are not against investment or takeover
2) we are certainly not anti-JR. The bloke saved this club. How can anyone be anti-JR? We were just as shocked as anyone when he decided to tender his resignation yesterday.
3) we have a clear aim to safeguard the club for the future of supporters, borne from the events of 1997/8.
4) as a shareholder/stakeholder we asked questions surrounding SC which were not answered. Where is the money coming from? Who is behind the bid? What happens if the Rovers don't get promoted to the Premier League? What happens to the club if SC or their backers decide enough is enough?
5) we did our own investigations (as other fans did too) and found out very little of substance.
6) we were threatened by lawyers acting for SC due to comments made by fans on this site.
Given the complete lack of anything to substantiate the SC bid how on earth could we support it? We never once said we didn't trust John, just that we had no hard evidence to persuade us that we should support the SC bid.
You couldn't have been sued for what supporters say , as it turns out that you are not a supporters group/club.
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Bpoolrover, how many more times do supporters want the VSC 's position clarifying?
1) we are not against investment or takeover
2) we are certainly not anti-JR. The bloke saved this club. How can anyone be anti-JR? We were just as shocked as anyone when he decided to tender his resignation yesterday.
3) we have a clear aim to safeguard the club for the future of supporters, borne from the events of 1997/8.
4) as a shareholder/stakeholder we asked questions surrounding SC which were not answered. Where is the money coming from? Who is behind the bid? What happens if the Rovers don't get promoted to the Premier League? What happens to the club if SC or their backers decide enough is enough?
5) we did our own investigations (as other fans did too) and found out very little of substance.
6) we were threatened by lawyers acting for SC due to comments made by fans on this site.
Given the complete lack of anything to substantiate the SC bid how on earth could we support it? We never once said we didn't trust John, just that we had no hard evidence to persuade us that we should support the SC bid.
You couldn't have been sued for what supporters say , as it turns out that you are not a supporters group/club.
Why dont the vsc put a copy of their constitution on vsc matters part of this forum,then the members can see what exactly the aims of the group are.By the way i am not a member but not against the vsc either.
They already have mate, its on the home page. About the VSC / Aims & Objectives.
When you read it, it looks pretty much like a supporters' club/group to me. I'm probably misunderstanding it though.
Aims
These are included in the rules of the VSC and are as follows:
The Society’s objects are to benefit the community by:
being the democratic and representative voice of the supporters of the Club and strengthening the bonds between the Club and the communities which it serves
achieving the greatest possible supporter and community influence in the running and ownership of the Club
promoting responsible and constructive community engagement by present and future members of the communities served by the Club and encouraging the Club to do the same
operating democratically, fairly, sustainably, transparently and with financial responsibility and encouraging the Club to do the same
being a positive, inclusive and representative organisation, open and accessible to all supporters of the Club regardless of their age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality or religious or moral belief
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Yes i have just read it,ihave also read the end of season review and it does say it is a Supporters Trust.
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Martin is making a distinction between a supporters club and a supporters trust. They are 2 very different types of organisation, performing very different roles. The thing they both have is a membership.
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We have already been informed by Silent Majority that the VSC is not here to represent the supporters of DRFC but is a body elected to keep tabs of the club and ensure it goes the way they want it to.
It is a shame then that we don't have a fans forum where everyone can contribute without the VSC having to influnce most of the threads.
Wouldn't it be great to actually have a forum like many football clubs do, where the fans post comments about the team, management etc etc but are generally non political.
Instead of being for or against John Ryan, Terry Brammall, Sequentia or Uncle Tom Cobley wouldn't it be nice to discuss other things.
Maybe there should be part of this forum dedicated to VSC members only where they can discuss the saviours or pirates trying to plunder our club and leave the rest to discussion about team affairs, transfers etc etc.
Like YAURS?
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We have already been informed by Silent Majority that the VSC is not here to represent the supporters of DRFC but is a body elected to keep tabs of the club and ensure it goes the way they want it to.
It is a shame then that we don't have a fans forum where everyone can contribute without the VSC having to influnce most of the threads.
Wouldn't it be great to actually have a forum like many football clubs do, where the fans post comments about the team, management etc etc but are generally non political.
Instead of being for or against John Ryan, Terry Brammall, Sequentia or Uncle Tom Cobley wouldn't it be nice to discuss other things.
Maybe there should be part of this forum dedicated to VSC members only where they can discuss the saviours or pirates trying to plunder our club and leave the rest to discussion about team affairs, transfers etc etc.
Like YAURS?
Before someone took his bat and ball home ............yes probably