Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: GazLaz on November 11, 2013, 09:32:25 am

Title: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: GazLaz on November 11, 2013, 09:32:25 am
@Walkerpw: Bramall says he's not sure what stage the Sequentia deal is at but is prepared to accept it on the terms discussed. #drfc

According to this tweet.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Woodhead Passer on November 11, 2013, 09:34:24 am
Also -

"Terry Bramall confirms he would leave #DRFC if deal goes through but has no plans on becoming Chairman in the meantime."
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lipsy on November 11, 2013, 09:40:18 am
This has all stopped making sense now. Completely confused by all of this now... I think I shall just turn off the internet and do something else.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: whisky on November 11, 2013, 09:44:21 am
So if TB now wants the deal to go ahead and he will leave the club afterwards could JR then be re appointed as chairman by SC and get what he wanted all along ?
I'd be much happier about the deal going ahead if JR was still around.
Wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: GazLaz on November 11, 2013, 09:47:34 am
TB wants to do the deal on his terms and not through JR.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: River Don on November 11, 2013, 09:51:13 am
So if TB now wants the deal to go ahead and he will leave the club afterwards could JR then be re appointed as chairman by SC and get what he wanted all along ?
I'd be much happier about the deal going ahead if JR was still around.
Wishful thinking.

I don't think it is wishful thinking. I think it's exactly what John has been pushing and hoping for.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: tuffty on November 11, 2013, 09:53:45 am
So for all the TB lovers who have said he has the club at heart..........really its his POCKET he has had in the best interest.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Red wizard on November 11, 2013, 09:54:22 am
I wonder if this is why we have signed no loan players?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: GazLaz on November 11, 2013, 09:56:38 am
Would people be more in favour of the deal if TB agreed to it?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: tuffty on November 11, 2013, 09:59:22 am
Would people be more in favour of the deal if TB agreed to it?

Yeah because the guy can do no wrong.............In certain peoples eyes.

Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: IDM on November 11, 2013, 09:59:44 am
Would people be more in favour of the deal if TB agreed to it?

People would be more in favour of the deal if we know more about the deal itself, not who is responsible for bringing it to the table, IMHO.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: wing commander on November 11, 2013, 10:00:17 am
   Yes I do......At the end of the day whatever anybody thinks he has not signed up to this deal as he and Watson want assurances on the future debt level we take on...Now Bramhall is a very succesfull business man,he has sold companies he created before, even more than JR...
   And I for one wont vilify a man who has put a lot of money in to this club too....The fact that it would appear that JR has no or little support from any of the people who have actually seen the deal (including his closest ally) is the thing that concerns me the most....
   I love JR,I marched with the coffin,attended all the meeting at the Earl and I can remember the utter despair I felt when I watched my team for what I thought was our last ever game...I will never forget that and I owe him a huge debt of gratitude,but I do feel sad he chose to do it this way with his  mates down at the exiles and then resigning 3 minutes before kick off...All done to cause the utmost disruption..The end result is that now the fans are ripping each others heads off all argueing points that nobody can say is true one way or another because we just don't know the full story..
  Whatever side you represent some of the abuse people are suffering is undeserved and nasty but all this Bramhall out talk can only be from people who weren't fans during the dark ages else they would remember what having a club who are in the shit is like...Be careful what you wish for...
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: River Don on November 11, 2013, 10:01:47 am
Would people be more in favour of the deal if TB agreed to it?

Yes Gaz I would, for two reasons. The first is if Terry now wants out there isn't another option and if he is happy for it to go through then it gives us some reassurance.

My main worry about SC was always that TB and DW were not convinced by the offer and preferred to maintain the status quo.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: CraigyBoy on November 11, 2013, 10:02:10 am
So basically all the people defending bramhall have woken up this morning feeling a little bit silly. What a disaster.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lipsy on November 11, 2013, 10:03:47 am
Has there been any suggestion that it's "TB's" deal and not "JR's" deal? Has there? If so, please point me in the direction of the quote/article. Otherwise, it's just presumption/speculation.

Bramall: "He's (JR's) not been in the dark with Sequentia, he's dealt with them for 6 months."
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Rovers Return on November 11, 2013, 10:06:24 am
Oh dear!! The beginning of the end  :(
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: wing commander on November 11, 2013, 10:08:05 am
   Craigyboy...No there not but that wont stop you continuing with your cheap,gutless keyboard warrior attack now will it... :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: River Don on November 11, 2013, 10:11:21 am
So basically all the people defending bramhall have woken up this morning feeling a little bit silly. What a disaster.

I don't feel silly at all. I was never against JR and never for TB. Bramall has supported the club financially and has helped see the Rovers through some very good times, that entitled him to a fair hearing.

What has always concerned me is SC and their motives. I'm still yet to be convinced by them.

Right now I would still prefer to see the status quo remain but that cannot be.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lipsy on November 11, 2013, 10:13:40 am
Here are words from TB's mouth. Currently listening to it: https://audioboo.fm/boos/1720476 (https://audioboo.fm/boos/1720476)
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lipsy on November 11, 2013, 10:17:28 am
TB suggesting that this is JR's deal... Nothing about it being TB's deal on his terms.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 10:21:34 am
So for all the TB lovers who have said he has the club at heart..........really its his POCKET he has had in the best interest.

I've been saying it for 2 years and was called an idiot and that i didn't know what i was talking about by directors of this co-operative, yet my friend the source that told me was/is a board member and a shareholder of the club who will know a lot more about what is going on the Silent Majority et al because all SM hears is what they want him to hear.
The VSC didn't want SC involved with the club so backed TB and certain individuals on here rediculed JR which upset him too, pity they backed a guy who's only interest was himself all along rather then the guy that eat, sleeps and eats doncaster rovers. All supporters including the VSC know what JR is about, yet they pinned their flag to the mast of a man who in truth they know very little about, rediculous!
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 10:22:40 am
TB suggesting that this is JR's deal... Nothing about it being TB's deal on his terms.

And you believe him,? A bloke who was only here to line his own pockets? lmfao
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: IDM on November 11, 2013, 10:28:34 am
So for all the TB lovers who have said he has the club at heart..........really its his POCKET he has had in the best interest.

I've been saying it for 2 years and was called an idiot and that i didn't know what i was talking about by directors of this co-operative, yet my friend the source that told me was/is a board member and a shareholder of the club who will know a lot more about what is going on the Silent Majority et al because all SM hears is what they want him to hear.
The VSC didn't want SC involved with the club so backed TB and certain individuals on here rediculed JR which upset him too, pity they backed a guy who's only interest was himself all along rather then the guy that eat, sleeps and eats doncaster rovers. All supporters including the VSC know what JR is about, yet they pinned their flag to the mast of a man who in truth they know very little about, rediculous!

I pin my flag to the DRFC mast, not to any one individual.  My opinion, I can't speak for others...
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lipsy on November 11, 2013, 10:29:17 am
I was paraphrasing what he said, not adding my own spin on it. Enough people are spinning words and speculating - I don't want to be part of it.

What I will say is that (and I am not going to side with anyone/kick anyone, etc) I thought that it was interesting that TB appears to be selectively clued up about what JR has said over the weekend. That could be because he simply isn't up to speed, but I did find it odd that TB claimed ignorance of some of it but knew about other comments. It takes about five minutes to read up on JR's comments...

That said, I maintain the belief that the board have all been playing silly buggers to some degree.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: steve@dcfd on November 11, 2013, 10:33:34 am
It appears that the money from Sequentia was going to be paid over 3 to 5 years to the owners. Which was not acceptable to the majority of the owners. In the new deal it will be paid up front and now TB appears to be saying that is acceptable.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: eastender on November 11, 2013, 10:45:23 am
So if the deal goes through and it sounds likely that it will , where will that leave the VSC ?

We haven't got off to the best of starts by being issued with a lawyers letter threatening legal action by the new owners , have we.  :(

Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on November 11, 2013, 10:50:51 am
Indeed as ever we'll look at the information, discuss and take it at its merits. If things have changed for a positive it's all good. If they haven't them clearly I'd still be concerned based on information from before.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 11:02:00 am
Indeed as ever we'll look at the information, discuss and take it at its merits. If things have changed for a positive it's all good. If they haven't them clearly I'd still be concerned based on information from before.

Backtrack much?
What happened to the 'we don't want a hedge fund running our club' and 'we don't want people that threatened us with legal action running our club'? The deal is no different just money up front and slightly more, it's still a hedge fund and still people that threatened your co-operative with legal action.
The VSC changing it's opinion again to suit it's own agenda?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on November 11, 2013, 11:05:44 am
Indeed as ever we'll look at the information, discuss and take it at its merits. If things have changed for a positive it's all good. If they haven't them clearly I'd still be concerned based on information from before.

Backtrack much?
What happened to the 'we don't want a hedge fund running our club' and 'we don't want people that threatened us with legal action running our club'? The deal is no different just money up front and slightly more, it's still a hedge fund and still people that threatened your co-operative with legal action.
The VSC changing it's opinion again to suit it's own agenda?

Rubbish, we'll discuss everything new as we well should. My opinion is no different I'd be looking for guarantees of security to support it. Which is bang in line with what the directors of the vsc discussed months ago before any of you ever knew of takeover talks.

Also I'd like to think we're not fixed in our minds and quite open to making decisions on the evidenced. If new information to the positive appears, well that's exactly what we're pushing for.  We're not childish in making a view and sticking to it if things change. If there is no change my view will not. So you're wrong.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: BigColSutherland on November 11, 2013, 11:08:57 am
Should this go through, the VSC shareholding could be bought out with no say in the matter could it not?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lipsy on November 11, 2013, 11:11:26 am
Aw c'mon, let go of the bone a little, Skellow. Seriously. IF this deal goes ahead, has the VSC got clout to put the mockers on it? Nope.

I understand that their stance (from an official rather than individual point of view) has been to welcome investment, *providing* it meets the criteria of sustaining the club's long-term future. It just so happens that their view appears to run parallel to the noises that TB and co have been making...

I'm also sure that JR has the same long-term hope for the club, btw.

Thing is, I think some people are confusing individual VSC reps opinions with the view of VSC as a whole.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 11:13:11 am
Indeed as ever we'll look at the information, discuss and take it at its merits. If things have changed for a positive it's all good. If they haven't them clearly I'd still be concerned based on information from before.

Backtrack much?
What happened to the 'we don't want a hedge fund running our club' and 'we don't want people that threatened us with legal action running our club'? The deal is no different just money up front and slightly more, it's still a hedge fund and still people that threatened your co-operative with legal action.
The VSC changing it's opinion again to suit it's own agenda?

Rubbish, we'll discuss everything new as we well should. My opinion is no different I'd be looking for guarantees of security to support it. Which is bang in line with what the directors of the vsc discussed months ago before any of you ever knew of takeover talks.

Also I'd like to think we're not fixed in our minds and quite open to making decisions on the evidenced. If new information to the positive appears, well that's exactly what we're pushing for.  We're not childish in making a view and sticking to it if things change. If there is no change my view will not. So you're wrong.

Rubbish? I think you must be referring to your reply there. Short term memory loss from a VSC board member again as certain directors have said those very 2 things, maybe not you but hey obviously a great show of a unified board ;)
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 11:19:56 am
Aw c'mon, let go of the bone a little, Skellow. Seriously. IF this deal goes ahead, has the VSC got clout to put the mockers on it? Nope.

I understand that their stance (from an official rather than individual point of view) has been to welcome investment, *providing* it meets the criteria of sustaining the club's long-term future. It just so happens that their view appears to run parallel to the noises that TB and co have been making...

I'm also sure that JR has the same long-term hope for the club, btw.

Thing is, I think some people are confusing individual VSC reps opinions with the view of VSC as a whole.

The VSC boards opinons are all that matters matey, afterall they keep banging on about how they are elected to make them. The problem with the VSC is it's blinkered views because they didn't look at the whole picture of what could happen because they put their trust in a man they know little about even though he's been a shareholder for a few years.
Can they do anything about stopping this deal and the sh*t hitting the fan? Nope. The best chance we had of making sure the best interests of the club were taken into account was if JR was around, pity he took so much crap on the VSC boards isn't it *sigh*
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: River Don on November 11, 2013, 11:24:30 am
Should this go through, the VSC shareholding could be bought out with no say in the matter could it not?

I don't think so. Supporters trusts don't exist to fold at the moment new owners come in.

Besides, this is still a supposed to be a friendly takeover, isn't it?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: silent majority on November 11, 2013, 11:27:08 am
Skellow,

How many more times are you going to ignore the responses that you've been given whilst peddling your bitterness towards certain board members??

I'm going to say this again in the hope that you understand where we are and what our position is, although God knows why as you never pay attention.

We are not anti-JR, we are not pro-TB, we have always been anti-SC, and until they can provide us with the answers we've been asking for 6 months nothing changes. Nothing I've read or heard this morning changes that one bit.

Your personal attacks on me are tiresome to the extreme.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: BigColSutherland on November 11, 2013, 11:27:37 am


Should this go through, the VSC shareholding could be bought out with no say in the matter could it not?

I don't think so. Supporters trusts don't exist to fold at the moment new owners come in.

Besides, this is still a supposed to be a friendly takeover, isn't it?

I'm not saying they'd fold. I'm saying wouldn't their shares become liable to purchased as part of compulsory acquistion?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lipsy on November 11, 2013, 11:28:56 am
You're still confusing some individual VSC reps' opinions with those of the VSC as a whole, I believe.

All of this is just a chuffing mess. We're almost best to let the board do what it's going to do (none of us can influence anything anyway). All those bleating on about JR falling on his sword should watch his conference video http://ow.ly/qGPqW (http://ow.ly/qGPqW). The final moments - I think - reveal something of JR's true intentions/hopes.

I feel like we're spectators to a ridiculous posturing showdown... None of us know what's actually going, and all those involved seem to be playing silly buggers. Sniping on here (or Facebook, for that matter) is completely pointless and a waste of good energy.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: silent majority on November 11, 2013, 11:30:02 am


Should this go through, the VSC shareholding could be bought out with no say in the matter could it not?

I don't think so. Supporters trusts don't exist to fold at the moment new owners come in.

Besides, this is still a supposed to be a friendly takeover, isn't it?

I'm not saying they'd fold. I'm saying wouldn't their shares become liable to purchased as part of compulsory acquistion?

Yes of course they would.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on November 11, 2013, 11:30:28 am


Should this go through, the VSC shareholding could be bought out with no say in the matter could it not?

I don't think so. Supporters trusts don't exist to fold at the moment new owners come in.

Besides, this is still a supposed to be a friendly takeover, isn't it?

I'm not saying they'd fold. I'm saying wouldn't their shares become liable to purchased as part of compulsory acquistion?

Always a possibility of that of course. Wouldn't be very desirable or good pr for them though would it?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: BigColSutherland on November 11, 2013, 11:41:03 am
Well, with the apparent sending of that legal letter, I'm not sure they care too much about PR to be honest BFYP.

Interesting times ahead for everyone.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: bobjimwilly on November 11, 2013, 11:53:25 am
just to quote what TB said regarding the deal: "I'm prepared to accept the deal in the terms I thought we were discussing"
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: roverssam1879 on November 11, 2013, 12:06:26 pm


We are not anti-JR, we are not pro-TB, we have always been anti-SC, and until they can provide us with the answers we've been asking for 6 months nothing changes. Nothing I've read or heard this morning changes that one bit.



Pretty sure many a member of the forum have been told to keep thier beaks out when asking for more info on any deal as to not jepodise things.

are the general members told the same as what the directors of the VSC are told...no

im pretty sure the VSC will always come out on top when trying to fight against people like skellow as they hold the upper hand on information recieved from within the club.

This is always going to happen, maybe there should be less of an anti JR feel from the VSC directors, this way personal attacks may be less common and people wouldnt get backs up so quickly.

I dont feel JR deserves some of the bad press he can sometimes seem to get on here. If it was toned down then maybe he wouldnt have legal teams searching internet content (allegedly)
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 12:09:40 pm


We are not anti-JR, we are not pro-TB, we have always been anti-SC, and until they can provide us with the answers we've been asking for 6 months nothing changes. Nothing I've read or heard this morning changes that one bit.



Pretty sure many a member of the forum have been told to keep thier beaks out when asking for more info on any deal as to not jepodise things.

are the general members told the same as what the directors of the VSC are told...no

im pretty sure the VSC will always come out on top when trying to fight against people like skellow as they hold the upper hand on information recieved from within the club.

This is always going to happen, maybe there should be less of an anti JR feel from the VSC directors, this way personal attacks may be less common and people wouldnt get backs up so quickly.

I dont feel JR deserves some of the bad press he can sometimes seem to get on here. If it was toned down then maybe he wouldnt have legal teams searching internet content (allegedly)

haha they wish they did ;)
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: goalkick on November 11, 2013, 12:09:52 pm
If this forum still exists in a few years time will be very interesting to see what opinions are.we could be in the premier or back in the conference. Wonder what the odds are on both scenarios.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: roverssam1879 on November 11, 2013, 12:11:50 pm
I think they do Skellow, But i feel the information is abused (sometimes) in order in order to stroke ego's

It gotten out of hand some what.

Itd be interesting to see what the anti SC pro TB gang think of things if TB does agree a deal and walk...opening the door for a certain JR to be reinstated as Chairman by SC.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: wing commander on November 11, 2013, 12:20:22 pm
   I think the big problem is that people just assume that just because the vsc board do not on this occasion believe he is correct and cant back the deal in its current format that they are against him and knowing most of the vsc board that is simply not the case...
  The irony is that some of the people who obviously want to attack these people are the same ones who previously accused the vsc of being puppets of the club..All they want to achieve is that whoever owns the club wether it be JR,TB,DW we have a club for the future and the debt that this large amount of money could cause is not saddled onto the club in loans...
  We need to remember we are not a Rangers or Portsmouth with famous history or large fanbase..If we get saddled with huge debts and its doesn't work out..We wouldn't survive....
 
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 12:24:25 pm
I think they do Skellow, But i feel the information is abused (sometimes) in order in order to stroke ego's

It gotten out of hand some what.

Itd be interesting to see what the anti SC pro TB gang think of things if TB does agree a deal and walk...opening the door for a certain JR to be reinstated as Chairman by SC.

2 little snippets from PM's i sent to trusted people on another forum about a couple of events that have happened or are happening

This was from the day it happened, way before anybody new this and way before it was public knowledge over 12 months ago in regards to board member resignations/being forced out...
Quote
It seems the KM2 have got what they wanted and forced everyone out so they can do what they want

This is from aroud a year and a half ago...
Quote
The KM2 are just rubbing their hands together and waiting for the cash to start coming in from developments because now they don't have to put a penny into the club in terms of investment thanks to FFP and i have a feeling in my gut that JR wont be here come the end of the season.

Call me psychic or getting info from somewhere? ;)

Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: IDM on November 11, 2013, 12:31:52 pm
Why are you posting from PMs anyway?  Remind me, what does the P stand for?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: wing commander on November 11, 2013, 12:39:00 pm
   If DB does do a deal with SC that's fine by me....As that would mean that issues have been agreed and he has the assurances that the club will not be put at risk by spending miles above what we can cope with if the prem push didn't work out...
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Rovers-on-Thames on November 11, 2013, 12:43:00 pm
I'm still anti sc whether tb supports it or not. I think the club might be about to embark on a boom or shit era in which the long term future of the club is jeopardised.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 12:46:06 pm
Why are you posting from PMs anyway?  Remind me, what does the P stand for?

Because the information isn't private anymore IDM, it's now common knowledge so i have no problem with it, after all they were messages i sent
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: RobTheRover on November 11, 2013, 01:00:23 pm
I think they do Skellow, But i feel the information is abused (sometimes) in order in order to stroke ego's

It gotten out of hand some what.

Itd be interesting to see what the anti SC pro TB gang think of things if TB does agree a deal and walk...opening the door for a certain JR to be reinstated as Chairman by SC.

Sam, none of the VSC board are Anti-JR or Pro-TB - We are all Pro-DRFC, though. 

In our view, the SC deal was not right for the club when the information was put to us.  We asked pertinent questions regarding it and received no assurances.  I would expect any supporters trust worth their salt would have done the same.  If those terms have subsequently changed then of course we would take the same approach and possibly come up with a different answer.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: wilts rover on November 11, 2013, 01:03:36 pm
Skellow - so if the KM2 have got what they wanted, free control over access to development - why are they now selling out to SC?

Do you support the buy-out from SC? Does your source?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: steve@dcfd on November 11, 2013, 01:04:43 pm
I think they do Skellow, But i feel the information is abused (sometimes) in order in order to stroke ego's

It gotten out of hand some what.

Itd be interesting to see what the anti SC pro TB gang think of things if TB does agree a deal and walk...opening the door for a certain JR to be reinstated as Chairman by SC.

Sam, none of the VSC board are Anti-JR or Pro-TB - We are all Pro-DRFC, though. 

In our view, the SC deal was not right for the club when the information was put to us.  We asked pertinent questions regarding it and received no assurances.  I would expect any supporters trust worth their salt would have done the same.  If those terms have subsequently changed then of course we would take the same approach and possibly come up with a different answer.


Rob the terms that have changed the money paid to the owners is being said to be paid up front now. How does that change the view on Sequentia, it says to me that some owners wanted their money up front before they leave.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: wilts rover on November 11, 2013, 01:12:32 pm
Rob, SM, et al

Its all seeming pretty academic now. Rather than just trotting out the VSC is opposing the deal, if this news is true, which I have no reason to doubt, the VSC is going to have to forget what it opposes and come up with a strategy for dealing with Sequentia Capital and their representatives (should that be JR) for when they take over, pretty damn quick!
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Muttley on November 11, 2013, 01:16:47 pm
Indeed as ever we'll look at the information, discuss and take it at its merits. If things have changed for a positive it's all good. If they haven't them clearly I'd still be concerned based on information from before.

Why is it "all good" just becuase some money is being paid up front?

There are still huge question marks over SC, their backers and their motives.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lipsy on November 11, 2013, 01:19:45 pm
The clues are in the words: If things have changed for a positive it's all good. If they haven't then clearly I'd still be concerned based on information from before.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: RobTheRover on November 11, 2013, 01:25:40 pm
Steve, I've stated many times the kind of question we asked and received no clarification.  Who is behind the money? What happens if we dont get to the Prem?  What happens if Sequentia pull out? etc, etc.

What the owners are looking for to sweeten the deal for themselves is none of our concern.  Our concern is that DRFC goes on long after JR, TB, me, you and everyone on here is pushing up daisies.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: roverssam1879 on November 11, 2013, 01:42:04 pm
I think they do Skellow, But i feel the information is abused (sometimes) in order in order to stroke ego's

It gotten out of hand some what.

Itd be interesting to see what the anti SC pro TB gang think of things if TB does agree a deal and walk...opening the door for a certain JR to be reinstated as Chairman by SC.

Sam, none of the VSC board are Anti-JR or Pro-TB - We are all Pro-DRFC, though. 

In our view, the SC deal was not right for the club when the information was put to us.  We asked pertinent questions regarding it and received no assurances.  I would expect any supporters trust worth their salt would have done the same.  If those terms have subsequently changed then of course we would take the same approach and possibly come up with a different answer.


I just do not understand why anyone feels the need to question the deal that JR was backing along with Trevor Milton.

surely his backing alone should be suffice for the likes of us!?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: IDM on November 11, 2013, 01:48:34 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lytham Rover on November 11, 2013, 02:08:03 pm
As i understand it ALL the land around the ground including carparks (except perhaps 4) are covered by covenants there precluding any development

So that's one theory up the swanee!
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: bobjimwilly on November 11, 2013, 02:35:32 pm
I just do not understand why anyone feels the need to question the deal that JR was backing along with Trevor Milton.

surely his backing alone should be suffice for the likes of us!?

The VSC as an organisation should never back anything, such as a 100% takeover, if they have any doubts. John Ryan has done wonders for the club, from helping save it from extinction to helping guide it to the championship. But people still make mistakes, can be misinformed, or sometimes even misguided. The VSC can offer an independent 3rd opinion, if you will, which is exactly what we want to do here. But we simply haven't been offered any information on the situation, which should get alarm bells ringing for everyone?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: roverssam1879 on November 11, 2013, 02:54:22 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: IDM on November 11, 2013, 02:59:56 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?

I would hope so, but the rest of the board clearly weren't satisfied. 
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: River Don on November 11, 2013, 03:00:22 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?

And round and round and round it goes. All concerns must be shelved because JR sanctions it and he is infallible. For instance, it isn't the VSCs role to just blindly agree with John Ryan, they had their own questions of SC and no answers were forthcoming.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: roverssam1879 on November 11, 2013, 03:12:29 pm
Im sure they would tell JR a fair bit more than what they would give the VSC though.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: CraigyBoy on November 11, 2013, 03:19:42 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?

If the vsc have had no info, why then are some of its board members so against it? What strikes me as funny is that Jr apparently can't be trusted when he wants the deal to go ahead but as soon as Bramall says it's ok....... All a bit strange.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: roverssam1879 on November 11, 2013, 03:26:15 pm
TB wants SC to come up with the money now...so he can walk rather than wait 3 to 5!
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: River Don on November 11, 2013, 03:28:39 pm
TB wants SC to come up with the money now...so he can walk rather than wait 3 to 5!

Or maybe to ensure they actually have the money and are really prepared to part with it.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: IDM on November 11, 2013, 03:30:34 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?

If the vsc have had no info, why then are some of its board members so against it? What strikes me as funny is that Jr apparently can't be trusted when he wants the deal to go ahead but as soon as Bramall says it's ok....... All a bit strange.

You've answered your own question...

Where are the VSC saying everything is kushti because TB seems OK with it?  As far as I can read, the VSC would still want its questions answered whether or not it is JR/TB involved?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: drfc1951 on November 11, 2013, 03:34:07 pm
TB wants SC to come up with the money now...so he can walk rather than wait 3 to 5!

Why should he have to wait for his money,if you were selling a car you wouldnt wait 5 months for your money would you.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: DearneValleyRover on November 11, 2013, 03:36:03 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?

If the vsc have had no info, why then are some of its board members so against it? What strikes me as funny is that Jr apparently can't be trusted when he wants the deal to go ahead but as soon as Bramall says it's ok....... All a bit strange.

You've answered your own question...

Where are the VSC saying everything is kushti because TB seems OK with it?  As far as I can read, the VSC would still want its questions answered whether or not it is JR/TB involved?

True, nothing has changed the questions originally asked remain unanswered so our position remains the same.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 03:43:08 pm
Skellow - so if the KM2 have got what they wanted, free control over access to development - why are they now selling out to SC?

Do you support the buy-out from SC? Does your source?

Wilts who knows how much they will get from SC and who knows how they wont be tied up in the development itself? There maybe an upfront payment of £8-10m but what about after that? because i know for a fact the club was been offered for around £30 give or take the odd million with the potential for development to prospective buyers almost 2 years ago (Yes i will reveal that fact too now).

Does my source support the buyout? Yes, do i? yes, because i trust my source in regards to the future of the club. Do i trust Bramall? Not as far as i could throw him.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 03:45:19 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?

If the vsc have had no info, why then are some of its board members so against it? What strikes me as funny is that Jr apparently can't be trusted when he wants the deal to go ahead but as soon as Bramall says it's ok....... All a bit strange.

You've answered your own question...

Where are the VSC saying everything is kushti because TB seems OK with it?  As far as I can read, the VSC would still want its questions answered whether or not it is JR/TB involved?

True, nothing has changed the questions originally asked remain unanswered so our position remains the same.

But you will be powerless to stop anything and now JR has gone you have lost probably the only ally you would have had. Do you honestly think SC would want to deal with the current directors of the VSC? You're deluded if you think they will and you could very well end up in the same position os the Leeds supporters trust did unless changes are made at the top of the co-operatibe, just saying ;)
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: graingrover on November 11, 2013, 03:51:35 pm
Can someone advise what the total current shareholdings plus outstanding loans to shareholders amount to?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Lytham Rover on November 11, 2013, 03:54:42 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?

If the vsc have had no info, why then are some of its board members so against it? What strikes me as funny is that Jr apparently can't be trusted when he wants the deal to go ahead but as soon as Bramall says it's ok....... All a bit strange.

You've answered your own question...

Where are the VSC saying everything is kushti because TB seems OK with it?  As far as I can read, the VSC would still want its questions answered whether or not it is JR/TB involved?

True, nothing has changed the questions originally asked remain unanswered so our position remains the same.

But you will be powerless to stop anything and now JR has gone you have lost probably the only ally you would have had. Do you honestly think SC would want to deal with the current directors of the VSC? You're deluded if you think they will and you could very well end up in the same position os the Leeds supporters trust did unless changes are made at the top of the co-operatibe, just saying ;)

So the VSC will have appoint some people to be glove puppets to SC?

Rather defeats the object doesn't it?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: SkellowRover on November 11, 2013, 04:00:35 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?

If the vsc have had no info, why then are some of its board members so against it? What strikes me as funny is that Jr apparently can't be trusted when he wants the deal to go ahead but as soon as Bramall says it's ok....... All a bit strange.

You've answered your own question...

Where are the VSC saying everything is kushti because TB seems OK with it?  As far as I can read, the VSC would still want its questions answered whether or not it is JR/TB involved?

True, nothing has changed the questions originally asked remain unanswered so our position remains the same.

But you will be powerless to stop anything and now JR has gone you have lost probably the only ally you would have had. Do you honestly think SC would want to deal with the current directors of the VSC? You're deluded if you think they will and you could very well end up in the same position os the Leeds supporters trust did unless changes are made at the top of the co-operatibe, just saying ;)

So the VSC will have appoint some people to be glove puppets to SC?

Rather defeats the object doesn't it?

Have i said that? Nope.

But i can't see SC dealing with people they threatened legal action against can you? Especially when the VSC popularity is at an all time low.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Wild Rover on November 11, 2013, 04:12:32 pm
Can someone advise what the total current shareholdings plus outstanding loans to shareholders amount to?

Round figures.... 12 million shares, £1 a pop. So each of the 3 owners have 3 million stake, Ryan said club "Owed him" 3 million, so guess as it was a 1:1:1 split other two owed same. So around 21 million should cover it Brian.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Dare to dream! on November 11, 2013, 04:14:56 pm
The fact that SC haven't replied to the VSC shows how much they are going to respond/respect the VSC when they get in charge which now seems inevitable. I think that's why the VSC don't want them in because the VSC will be worthless.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on November 11, 2013, 04:18:49 pm
The fact that SC haven't replied to the VSC shows how much they are going to respond/respect the VSC when they get in charge which now seems inevitable. I think that's why the VSC don't want them in because the VSC will be worthless.

Not at all. You forget we welcomed the opportunity to work with these people and simply asked a few questions. I'd be chuffed if someone came in and gave the club money with no risk.  If only it was that simple.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: River Don on November 11, 2013, 04:26:02 pm
The fact that SC haven't replied to the VSC shows how much they are going to respond/respect the VSC when they get in charge which now seems inevitable. I think that's why the VSC don't want them in because the VSC will be worthless.

It seems the VSC have been on a hiding to nothing since it is looking like fan engagement isn't something SC have ever been interested in. It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence about the future of Rovers under SC.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: DearneValleyRover on November 11, 2013, 04:27:57 pm
Sam, the original deal is questioned because the prospective owners were unknown as were their motives and plans.  The same questions would be asked of any proposed takeover?

I would hope that the board (whoever they are) asks these questions themselves, without necessarily needing to resort to the fanbase.

Do you not think JR would have done so?

If the vsc have had no info, why then are some of its board members so against it? What strikes me as funny is that Jr apparently can't be trusted when he wants the deal to go ahead but as soon as Bramall says it's ok....... All a bit strange.

You've answered your own question...

Where are the VSC saying everything is kushti because TB seems OK with it?  As far as I can read, the VSC would still want its questions answered whether or not it is JR/TB involved?

True, nothing has changed the questions originally asked remain unanswered so our position remains the same.

But you will be powerless to stop anything and now JR has gone you have lost probably the only ally you would have had. Do you honestly think SC would want to deal with the current directors of the VSC? You're deluded if you think they will and you could very well end up in the same position os the Leeds supporters trust did unless changes are made at the top of the co-operatibe, just saying ;)

We aren't as powerless as you would like to make out, can we stop the sale no but there are plenty of other things that can be done to secure the future of the club after all that's why we were set up. I will leave point scoring and winkies in the hands of those told you so aren't I clever people who only wish to discredit those giving their freetime in the pursuit of keeping a Club for us to support.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Pinter777 on November 11, 2013, 04:41:35 pm
From a business point of view, bramell will be looking at the figures as opposed to john ryan who like myself is dreaming of the premiership. Sometimes you have to be realistic about your situation, john seems to be on an immediate gratification process where as TB is looking further down the line.....in terms of a business on a professional level I trust TB more.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Wellred on November 11, 2013, 05:30:31 pm
   If DB does do a deal with SC that's fine by me....As that would mean that issues have been agreed and he has the assurances that the club will not be put at risk by spending miles above what we can cope with if the prem push didn't work out...


Really??? So it has nothing to do with TB waiting to get the financial deal to suit him before selling to SC
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Jenny on November 11, 2013, 06:52:32 pm
I'd be surprised if TB wanted any massive financial gain out of selling his investment - the man is hardly short of a bob or two.

I don't believe this is down to personal gains, more that he wants to leave the club in a sustainable position - surely we all want that?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: silent majority on November 11, 2013, 06:54:14 pm
So for an outlay of £7m he gets about £2.5m back. Some financial deal to suit him!
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Wellred on November 11, 2013, 06:57:56 pm
So for an outlay of £7m he gets about £2.5m back. Some financial deal to suit him!

I wouldn't expect you to tell me how you get to your figures as I am not a vsc member. That information is only for the inner circle I suppose.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Jenny on November 11, 2013, 07:03:00 pm
The financial accounts detail the loans of the directors and the annual returns have the shareholdings. It's easy to see his much is put in.

They are both documents that are available to the general public.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Wellred on November 11, 2013, 07:05:36 pm
So SC are not going to buy his shares and his loans are going to be written off?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Jenny on November 11, 2013, 07:11:10 pm
Shares in a private company are only worth what someone will pay for them - as are the loans, so I imagine a proportion will get written off. The share capital and loans are in excess of £20m in total - the price mooted about isn't £20m. Do the maths.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Pinter777 on November 11, 2013, 08:02:08 pm
They work with medium to long term investments, these can range from 10 years and onwards.As far as hedge funds go and there immediate profit returns, I would say that 10 years is quite a dedicated investment that they are taking and shows they are serious about the long term future as opposed to a quick return.
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: PDX_Rover on November 11, 2013, 09:20:19 pm
If the club "owes" JR 3m as he has apparently said... then the club is not debt free is it, as he said in his interviews over the weekend. Hmmmmm....
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Muttley on November 11, 2013, 09:43:39 pm
If the club "owes" JR 3m as he has apparently said... then the club is not debt free is it, as he said in his interviews over the weekend. Hmmmmm....

It's a common misconception, but the club is approx £9m in debt (not including any loans that have been made in the last few months).

You would have thought JR would know better.

Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: wing commander on November 11, 2013, 09:48:41 pm
Jenny....I came to the same conclusion,your not an accountant per chance?
Title: Re: Take over ready to go ahead.
Post by: Wild Rover on November 12, 2013, 02:19:43 pm
Shares in a private company are only worth what someone will pay for them - as are the loans, so I imagine a proportion will get written off. The share capital and loans are in excess of £20m in total - the price mooted about isn't £20m. Do the maths.

As like as not all 3 majority shareholders will accept the 37p share value at which price Ryan sold to KM2 initially. Possibly loans similar cost, which would bring it down to the 8 million up front payment.