Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Boomstick on February 15, 2014, 09:40:52 am
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If your a singer, don't forget to support the initiative of creating a singing section it the north west corner.
Be interesting to see if anyone moves seats to support this, or will it be the usual apathy shown by many users of this forum
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One man's apathy is another's preference. Good luck to those who do it, I personally expect it to fall on its backside. Hope wherever you are a good atmosphere is had
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Atmosphere should be good today. I promise to sing every time we score.
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I think this could be better aided by having pay on the gate in this section to be honest
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:that:
One man's apathy is another's preference. Good luck to those who do it, I personally expect it to fall on its backside. Hope wherever you are a good atmosphere is had
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I think this could be better aided by having pay on the gate in this section to be honest
You're probably right, but this was never going to happen in such a short space of time with such little planning, especially as there are season ticket holders in this area. I also think there might be issues today if fans who move to this "singing section" treat it as a "standing section", which is certainly is not.
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This won't work because of the season ticket factor (like the xfactor but with chips and bovril). The only way to encourage a singing section (and I can't believe the club haven't done this from the start, but it's Rovers we're talking about I suppose) is to wait until the season ticket renewal time and then block out an entire section for pay on the day for the 2014/15 season.
It's not that hard to do is it? Mind you, the club can't even serve food from kiosks at the KM without multiple planning meetings and think tanks. Sign o the times.......sadly.
What DRFC needs is more do'ers and less faceless, initiative lacking, meeting-junkies.
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This won't work because of the season ticket factor (like the xfactor but with chips and bovril). The only way to encourage a singing section (and I can't believe the club haven't done this from the start, but it's Rovers we're talking about I suppose) is to wait until the season ticket renewal time and then block out an entire section for pay on the day for the 2014/15 season.
I think this is what it'll take. You should be able to purchase a season ticket for the section not a seat too.
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All the comments on here, are the reason it might not work. How hard is it to move seats?
The south stand will be like a library as usual today, and as usual people will moan. But they surely have no right to unless they move seats to support the singing section initiative
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I think this could be better aided by having pay on the gate in this section to be honest
However the away fans will have their usual option of a 'standing' section of course. ;)
You're probably right, but this was never going to happen in such a short space of time with such little planning, especially as there are season ticket holders in this area. I also think there might be issues today if fans who move to this "singing section" treat it as a "standing section", which is certainly is not.
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All the comments on here, are the reason it might not work. How hard is it to move seats?
The south stand will be like a library as usual today, and as usual people will moan. But they surely have no right to unless they move seats to support the singing section initiative
Its no good trying to demand people move seats!
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All the comments on here, are the reason it might not work. How hard is it to move seats?
The south stand will be like a library as usual today, and as usual people will moan. But they surely have no right to unless they move seats to support the singing section initiative
Its no good trying to demand people move seats!
Can you give me a reason why not ? If you buy a season ticket for a golf club, gym, swimming pool does it mean you have the right to tee off at a particular time, go on a particular piece of equipment , swim in your chosen lane etc etc. This does need to happen Daggers...…there are '000s of alternative seats to accommodate all giving similar views surely ?
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Hoola I'm not saying the singing section is right or wrong however to come on here and basically demand that season ticket holders move because it suits an agenda that some supporters want is wrong.
Don't forget at the moment you buy a season ticket for a particular seat, so the golf club swimming argument doesn't hold water (sic)
Personally I need an end seat to enable to to stretch my right leg out due to my back injury and sciatica in that leg (and no I don't want to be at pitch level) so that in itself restricts my choice
I'm not saying it doesn't need to happen but it can't be gone into like a bull in a china shop with the singers virtually demanding non singers move out of their seats so they can move in.
It needs consideration and planning from all not just the singers going to the club aying we want a singing section in area A and stuff anybody else that is in that area
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Then it can't really happen surely if you have 20 or so moaners who don't sing , sitting on their hands having a go at those who do. This already happens at away games and causes loads of friction !
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Worked a treat today, good atmosphere.
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Never heard you, heard the Barnsley fans mind
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Never heard you, heard the Barnsley fans mind
Dont know what game you was at.
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Never heard you, heard the Barnsley fans mind
Dont know what game you was at.
I do, like I said never heard you and I was in the same stand
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I'm just south of the middle in west stand. Didn't hear you once.
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I'm just south of the middle in west stand. Didn't hear you once.
I'm about halfway into the South half in the West Stand, like I said, never heard anything
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SadlyFilo is right, from the South West corner I could see plenty of arms waving about but no noise, that said I spent 10 minutes where you lot sing at the Wigan game & I thought the noise you made was tremendous sadly it just doesn't carry whether it is to so with numbers I don't know, I could hear the dingles occasionaly in the corner but rarely & not loud, I presume they had bigger numbers singing than you lot?
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Well in that end of the west stand there atmosphere was good. Wind probably didn't help.
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I was in south stand and heard them a few times but your bound to hear barnsley seeing as there was more of them then rovers
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Was louder than normal but the barnsley fans main singers were right next to them so drowned each other out
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The atmosphere in the north west was a great improvement, and will get better if more fans join the section.
I was surprised the away fans were moved closer than usual to the west stand. I would have thought the safety people would have had them overflow into the north east corner.
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Was a great atmosphere in the north west corner sounds like you all missed out. Never sang so much at the keepmoat before :thumbsup:
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Looks promising, a but more organising and make people aware of it. It could take off.
Incidentally I didn't hear a peep from the south stand, perhaps a lot moved to the north west.
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The acoustics in the KMS are awful I sit behind the home dug out and could barely hear the singing section. Shame really.
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Where was the drum?
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Sit in the east. NW looked a bit more lively today but couldn't really hear you. I notice the police and stewarding bill will be a little more expensive this week. Good thing was the South stand still sung despite a few of the numbers tried the NW corner. Might be a good thing as the singing was more spread around the ground today.
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I sit in the family stand and could hear the singers fine. Well done for trying to improve the atmosphere.
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Thought it was a good attempt, just hope we can build on it.
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Well done all who went there and tried. Looked like good fun from the south and although not that loud, definite improvement.
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When I was in the South Stand it did look more lively but could only hear it in parts but when I went towards the NW corner it was like walking into a different stadium and was really something.
I suspect there was a few fans who decided not to move for the game and just wanted to see how the atmosphere would be in NW, hopefully we can build on that going forward, but a great start and well done to all concerned.
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Hoola I'm not saying the singing section is right or wrong however to come on here and basically demand that season ticket holders move because it suits an agenda that some supporters want is wrong.
Don't forget at the moment you buy a season ticket for a particular seat, so the golf club swimming argument doesn't hold water (sic)
Personally I need an end seat to enable to to stretch my right leg out due to my back injury and sciatica in that leg (and no I don't want to be at pitch level) so that in itself restricts my choice
I'm not saying it doesn't need to happen but it can't be gone into like a bull in a china shop with the singers virtually demanding non singers move out of their seats so they can move in.
It needs consideration and planning from all not just the singers going to the club aying we want a singing section in area A and stuff anybody else that is in that area
We've approached the club and asked to trial a singing section in the NW, we haven't demanded that anyone be moved but it might be a good idea to make that block unreserved for next season.
The club have been good but don't want to be too hands on with this, their thinking is that the fans should lead the formation of a singing section and, lets be right, if they did interfere it'd feel a bit half arsed and forced.
Sad-Rovers it was initially a response to a post by Boomsick
Boomstick
Re: Singing section
« Reply #8 on Today at 10:50:16 AM by Boomstick »
All the comments on here, are the reason it might not work. How hard is it to move seats?
The south stand will be like a library as usual today, and as usual people will moan. But they surely have no right to unless they move seats to support the singing section initiative
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I'm just south of the middle in west stand. Didn't hear you once.
I'm about halfway into the South half in the West Stand, like I said, never heard anything
Weren't you on here the other day detailing your hearing problems?
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I just worry if and when safe standing comes, it will all have to be shifted back to south end, but for all those who sang for the majority of the match well done
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I just worry if and when safe standing comes, it will all have to be shifted back to south end, but for all those who sang for the majority of the match well done
I wouldn't worry about safe standing just yet!
As a matter of interest though, can stands be mixed? Blocks of Safe Standing & seating next to each other or does it have to be one or the other.
Safe Standing is coming IMO but we're a year away from an election so changing the legislation won't be priority of the legislative or the electorate. The club would then have to find the funding so iI can't see it at the Keepmoat in the next 2 years at least.
We can't jut sit around waiting for safe standing, that is only half the problem, we have to make the most out of what we have now.
There is no reason it can't be in the South Stand in the future, but we've made a great start in the west lets build on the momentum.
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In the middle of it all, it was really something. Didn't feel like the Keepmoat.
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The sound was much better today.
Only problem was the lads spent most of the game goading the opposition. The police and stewards had to react.
The signing section is too close to the away end.
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That will always happen river don as long as its banter all is good
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That will always happen river don as long as its banter all is good
It threatened to be more than banter though.
It isn't the right place for a singing section.
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That will always happen river don as long as its banter all is good
It threatened to be more than banter though.
It isn't the right place for a singing section.
Of course it is, this isn't Wimbledon. The two sets of fans compete to create a better atmosphere, get over it you melt.
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That will always happen river don as long as its banter all is good
It threatened to be more than banter though.
It isn't the right place for a singing section.
Don't talk wet. Plenty of new stadia have their singing section right next to the away fans. Perfect example of how football has become sanitised.
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The acoustics are fine. It's a bowl stadium with an enclosed roof for gods sake. Great atmosphere during first 30 mins or so. Wil only get better. Hope we stick with this
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The acoustics are fine. It's a bowl stadium with an enclosed roof for gods sake. Great atmosphere during first 30 mins or so. Wil only get better. Hope we stick with this
The acoustics for a football stadium are to put it bluntly sh*t, sound does not carry, the atmosphere was created by a good old derby game
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I still disagree about poor accustics but that's just my opinion, based on the fact I have never failed to hear the away fans no matter where I have sat in the ground. When we play l**ds their fans never appear to find the accustics a problem. I think it's purely the fact there isn't enough singers in the same area.
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Yesterdays effort was excellent and completely transformed the atmosphere, but lets not forget that this was probably helped by Rovers playing towards the town end second half, as the game reached its climax.
Would the new 'cop' be content on being at the 'wrong end' second half, as would be the norm usually?
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We have kicked that way 2nd half the last 3 games
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We have kicked that way 2nd half the last 3 games
I think we've worked out that allowing the visitors to kick towards their fans in the second half gives them an advantage. The only thing that puzzles me is why we line up at the South end prior to the toss.
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Has it been our decision to kick towards the south stand first half, or have we lost the toss last three games?
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We certainly won the toss yesterday and I believe we did against Middlesbrough as well.
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We certainly won the toss yesterday and I believe we did against Middlesbrough as well.
That surprises me if we won the toss against Middlesbrough and chose to change ends. The wind was ferocious towards the away end first half.
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That will always happen river don as long as its banter all is good
It threatened to be more than banter though.
It isn't the right place for a singing section.
Of course it is, this isn't Wimbledon. The two sets of fans compete to create a better atmosphere, get over it you melt.
It required quite a large police presence to keep the two sets of fans apart.
In an effort to save money Rovers are trying to host as many games as possible without Police supervision. If they're still intent on doing this I can't help but feel the singing section has to be further from the away fans.
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That will always happen river don as long as its banter all is good
It threatened to be more than banter though.
It isn't the right place for a singing section.
Of course it is, this isn't Wimbledon. The two sets of fans compete to create a better atmosphere, get over it you melt.
It required quite a large police presence to keep the two sets of fans apart.
In an effort to save money Rovers are trying to host as many games as possible without Police supervision. If they're still intent on doing this I can't help but feel the singing section has to be further from the away fans.
Christ, this is cringeworthy.
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We certainly won the toss yesterday and I believe we did against Middlesbrough as well.
thought we lost it yesterday as we kicked off
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We certainly won the toss yesterday and I believe we did against Middlesbrough as well.
thought we lost it yesterday as we kicked off
We did n't kick off
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I think we did
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I think we did
Keegan won the toss, chose the end and Barnsley kicked off kicking towards the North Stand
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Previous 2 games yes but unless I'm going mad which I could be coukd swear we kicked off 1st half
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Previous 2 games yes but unless I'm going mad which I could be coukd swear we kicked off 1st half
You're going mad :)
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Simple things do matter to some people
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Barnsley definitely kicked off in the first half.
I assumed Keegan chose to swap ends so we'd have the wind behind us in the second half.
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Yup seems to be a tactic. Slightly different but in reality we did it at belle Vue for years.
The singing section had some good effect. I do think it may be an issue the location though. There will be some concern on some things from drfc that's for sure. I'm sure the organisers will work on that as in my opinion it's a positive having a smaller section there and the south stand too.
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I would like to know the reason behind the decision to put the away fans so near to the home fans. there was plenty of room to house them in the north east corner, so as to create a gap between the rival fans.
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Yup seems to be a tactic. Slightly different but in reality we did it at belle Vue for years.
The singing section had some good effect. I do think it may be an issue the location though. There will be some concern on some things from drfc that's for sure. I'm sure the organisers will work on that as in my opinion it's a positive having a smaller section there and the south stand too.
Putting a "singing section" anywhere else but near the away fans would be a total waste of time. For this to work surely the banter needs to be heard and needs to be slightly confrontational. The emphasis is on the word 'slightly' no one is advocating all out war but any ground where the atmosphere is 'tingly' has the home and away fans in close proximity.
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I would like to know the reason behind the decision to put the away fans so near to the home fans. there was plenty of room to house them in the north east corner, so as to create a gap between the rival fans.
Probably they envisaged Barnsley selling the full allocation, so allocated them all the seats behind the goal.
Plus the only other time there has been any proper trouble in that corner was against Millwall.
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It was certainly a good starting point and something to build on. The people at the forefront of this need to keep the momentum going so the idea doesn't just fizzle out. Hopefully if it keeps being pushed and worked at, the small area will, over time get bigger and bigger and spread down the west stand towards the south. As the group gets bigger the noise will get louder.
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You could see a lot of bouncing around and arms waving but I have to say I didn't hear too much noise to be honest. Didn't hear a peep out of Huddersfield either other than before kick off. South stand was noticeably quieter today though.
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You could see a lot of bouncing around and arms waving but I have to say I didn't hear too much noise to be honest. Didn't hear a peep out of Huddersfield either other than before kick off. South stand was noticeably quieter today though.
There was a strong(ish) southerly wind which could have been responsible for this.
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Huddersfield were fairly loud until the first goal I thought. Heard a few songs from you lot but not that loud, heard the banging on the back more than anything.
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Hardly heard anything from the west stand or the huddersfield fans today from the south stand
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They both were hudds stopped pretty much as soon as they went one down
Think the singing section is doing well and with the cheaper seats next year could help spur it on, stick with it boys and girls
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Its getting better, looking forward to watford and wednesday games!
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Great atmosphere in the West stand today, keep at it lads
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I sit at the South end of the West stand and never heard a peep
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I've been looking the last two home games and whilst the noise isn't there yet it certainly looks like an atmosphere is starting to develop and the numbers involved is growing. You just need to keep pushing it to increase the number of people in that area and the noise level will grow with it over time.
It will take time but so long as people stick with it it should come good.
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I said after the Barnsley game that I could see plenty of arms waving but mo noise, yesterday even more arms waving (which bodes well) & I heard you a couple of times. You seem to be getting, the Hudds fans in the corner were louder when they sang but maybe they had help from the rest of the away end. Looking better though, well done. On the subject of noise I reckon that yesterday's was the worst large away following for atmosphere since the stadium opened.
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QPR and Barnsley were worse I think for atmosphere in the away end.
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Was good again yesterday much better than before, is it a permanent thing now?
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Yeah hopefully
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Hearing that stewards weren't letting people into the area that's meant to be the singing section tonight?
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I witnessed part of it. They weren't, and they were checking all tickets as people went up, regardless of whether they had just come down or not.
Now, I'll be diplomatic, but the chant "are you watching Shaun Lockwood" is really good advice, particularly given the stewards were at odds with the club policy.
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I witnessed part of it. They weren't, and they were checking all tickets as people went up, regardless of whether they had just come down or not.
Now, I'll be diplomatic, but the chant "are you watching Shaun Lockwood" is really good advice, particularly given the stewards were at odds with the club policy.
Apparently the stewards were acting under instruction from the club.
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They were signing f**k off shaun lockwood tonight, what's that about?
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I witnessed part of it. They weren't, and they were checking all tickets as people went up, regardless of whether they had just come down or not.
Now, I'll be diplomatic, but the chant "are you watching Shaun Lockwood" is really good advice, particularly given the stewards were at odds with the club policy.
Apparently the stewards were acting under instruction from the club.
Well now I'm even more confused.
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They were signing f**k off shaun lockwood tonight, what's that about?
I don't know, but I hope he could see. Maybe it was for benefit of those fans with hearing impairments ;)
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I tell you one thing they'd never be told to go into the away end and tell them what to do and sit down and be quiet. It really is pathetic. Then again wouldn't want to ruin our 'family club' image.
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How did the singing go last night, again I never heard anything from our singing section, heard the Watford fans and the odd chant from the South Stand. Is there something seriously wrong with the acoustics in the stadium? I'm all for the singers getting together in one area, but I think that end of the West Stand for whatever reason is not working the noise the singers make is being drowned out by the away fans. At least that's how it appears and sounds from my seat in the West Stand
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I could hear them in the south stand. The stewards are obviously doing their best to prevent any kind of atmosphere in that corner. This club is a joke sometimes.
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How did the singing go last night, again I never heard anything from our singing section, heard the Watford fans and the odd chant from the South Stand. Is there something seriously wrong with the acoustics in the stadium? I'm all for the singers getting together in one area, but I think that end of the West Stand for whatever reason is not working the noise the singers make is being drowned out by the away fans. At least that's how it appears and sounds from my seat in the West Stand
I made the same point after Saturday never heard a peep
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I tell you one thing they'd never be told to go into the away end and tell them what to do and sit down and be quiet. It really is pathetic. Then again wouldn't want to ruin our 'family club' image.
Did we go in the home end and tell them to sit down and beI witnessed part of it. They weren't, and they were checking all tickets as people went up, regardless of whether they had just come down or not.
Now, I'll be diplomatic, but the chant "are you watching Shaun Lockwood" is really good advice, particularly given the stewards were at odds with the club policy.
Apparently the stewards were acting under instruction from the club.
And I would suggest the club were acting under instructions from the Police.
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I tell you one thing they'd never be told to go into the away end and tell them what to do and sit down and be quiet. It really is pathetic. Then again wouldn't want to ruin our 'family club' image.
Did we go in the home end and tell them to sit down and beI witnessed part of it. They weren't, and they were checking all tickets as people went up, regardless of whether they had just come down or not.
Now, I'll be diplomatic, but the chant "are you watching Shaun Lockwood" is really good advice, particularly given the stewards were at odds with the club policy.
Apparently the stewards were acting under instruction from the club.
And I would suggest the club were acting under instructions from the Police.
What police ? I didn't see any last night. Was it not a non-police fixture. If it wasn't, it certainly should have been.
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Well they make enough noise to be heard by the away fans, judging by their reactions, and the players seem to respond to it, so I suppose it's having the right effect. Maybe if you got closer to them, or better still joined them, you wouldn't miss out.
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I tell you one thing they'd never be told to go into the away end and tell them what to do and sit down and be quiet. It really is pathetic. Then again wouldn't want to ruin our 'family club' image.
Did we go in the home end and tell them to sit down and beI witnessed part of it. They weren't, and they were checking all tickets as people went up, regardless of whether they had just come down or not.
Now, I'll be diplomatic, but the chant "are you watching Shaun Lockwood" is really good advice, particularly given the stewards were at odds with the club policy.
Apparently the stewards were acting under instruction from the club.
And I would suggest the club were acting under instructions from the Police.
The Police probably wouldn't be so concerned if the singing section wasn't quite so close to the away fans.
It'd be a shame if the singing section is stopped before it gets going because it's not situated in the ideal position.
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What police ? I didn't see any last night. Was it not a non-police fixture. If it wasn't, it certainly should have been.
Maybe the reasons why some fixtures are "non-police" is because the stewards take on some of those responsibilities, on instructions from the police received before the games?
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I tell you one thing they'd never be told to go into the away end and tell them what to do and sit down and be quiet. It really is pathetic. Then again wouldn't want to ruin our 'family club' image.
Did we go in the home end and tell them to sit down and beI witnessed part of it. They weren't, and they were checking all tickets as people went up, regardless of whether they had just come down or not.
Now, I'll be diplomatic, but the chant "are you watching Shaun Lockwood" is really good advice, particularly given the stewards were at odds with the club policy.
Apparently the stewards were acting under instruction from the club.
And I would suggest the club were acting under instructions from the Police.
What police ? I didn't see any last night. Was it not a non-police fixture. If it wasn't, it certainly should have been.
Do the Police have to be present to issue instructions? Even at Police free games pre-match meetings will have a Police presence. It's at those meetings the decisions are taken and instruction given to the club.
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So SM, has the singing section in that part of the stadium now been scrapped? As that's what people were being told by the stewards last night.
It's a shambles, and no wonder people can't be arsed to go to games at the Keepmoat any more. Another good idea that has fallen flat on its face because those with power can't or won't get behind it with any true enthusiasm.
We might as well make it compulsory to sit for the entire game, not sing, have no atmosphere, after all, it all goes against the "family club" image.
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So SM, has the singing section in that part of the stadium now been scrapped? As that's what people were being told by the stewards last night.
It's a shambles, and no wonder people can't be arsed to go to games at the Keepmoat any more. Another good idea that has fallen flat on its face because those with power can't or won't get behind it with any true enthusiasm.
We might as well make it compulsory to sit for the entire game, not sing, have no atmosphere, after all, it all goes against the "family club" image.
I think you should be aiming that question at the person who liaised with the club in the first place regarding the singing section and then promoted it, I would have thought he's the one that should be following up the issues raised
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Who would that be?
Whatever, anyway, it seems we are now back to square one with any kind of singing section, its one step forward and two steps back. And then people wonder why attendances are dwindling.....
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i think you will find there is a police presence at every game, you just don't see them if they are in the ground control room ;)
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Don't call it a singing section then just all arrange to meet there
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Don't call it a singing section then just all arrange to meet there
Call that area of the ground unofficially the Choir and then you could have a firm called the Choirboys :)
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So SM, has the singing section in that part of the stadium now been scrapped? As that's what people were being told by the stewards last night.
It's a shambles, and no wonder people can't be arsed to go to games at the Keepmoat any more. Another good idea that has fallen flat on its face because those with power can't or won't get behind it with any true enthusiasm.
We might as well make it compulsory to sit for the entire game, not sing, have no atmosphere, after all, it all goes against the "family club" image.
Why are you asking me? I was just speculating that it would be a Police decision if anybody's. You need to read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.
And who are you referring too exactly when you talk about those with the power who won't or can't get behind this?
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So SM, has the singing section in that part of the stadium now been scrapped? As that's what people were being told by the stewards last night.
It's a shambles, and no wonder people can't be arsed to go to games at the Keepmoat any more. Another good idea that has fallen flat on its face because those with power can't or won't get behind it with any true enthusiasm.
We might as well make it compulsory to sit for the entire game, not sing, have no atmosphere, after all, it all goes against the "family club" image.
Why are you asking me? I was just speculating that it would be a Police decision if anybody's. You need to read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.
And who are you referring too exactly when you talk about those with the power who won't or can't get behind this?
I thought as a link between the club and the supporters you might know the answer.
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I think all of these Stewarding / Alleged trouble situations that are arising from the new fangled singing section are just teething problems.
I believe theres no smoke without fire where Police are concerned, if you want to stand with a bunch of lads who are known for inciting trouble or who try to put on some sort of 'criminal' hardman persona then you are going to be treat accordingly, if you look like your causing trouble and don't want to be accused of causing trouble - don't look like your causing trouble!!
Having said that, young lads who want to get raucous at matches get treat like thugs, and watched heavily - its almost like when everyone labels someone a 'bad lad' in school they may as well be bad! Boys will be boys, football is a sport that has a sense of vitriol and aggression between supporters - thats part of the game, no matter how you want to rebrand the sport a 'family' thing, these supporters are part of the drfc community, they pay their money and get behind the lads and are the beating heart of what a support is!
It might upset the grumpy rovers bourgeois to hear the odd 'swear' or see people stood up, but the truth is you'd get it at every other club in the country - embrace your singers, these are the people who travel away, who spend their minimum wages and pocket money on rovers, and (if made to feel welcome) will keep coming back no matter what level we're at!!
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Members of the clubs senior management would like to meet with members of the singing section next week in order to discuss the singing section.
The meeting will take place on Wednesday 19th March, 5.30pm at the Keepmoat Stadium. Please attend if you can.
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Members of the clubs senior management would like to meet with members of the singing section next week in order to discuss the singing section.
The meeting will take place on Wednesday 19th March, 5.30pm at the Keepmoat Stadium. Please attend if you can.
Can this be put on the clubs website for all our fans to see?
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And the Facebook and Twitter page
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There is an official singing section page on FB, I would say more view that than this forum tbh.
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Can't see it happening there in the future. Which is crazy, other clubs allow their fans to congregate next to away fans.
Funny how the club didn't act against Barnsley or Huddersfield fans who let smoke canisters off in the stadium, many of them remained in the stadium.
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From a neutral perspective, you can understand if there is evidence of unruly behaviour in that section then the club want to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. Moreover, I'm sure you're all aware, policing costs can be a high burden on the club.
I'm sure, in one form or another we support a singing section however, as said above if this is being used as an excuse for unruly behaviour and to intimidate away fans, then those in favour of it need to understand the difference between this and creating an atmosphere. The two are not the same.
I've always maintained the South Stand is the best place to grow a kop/singing section, call it what you like. Creating a good atmosphere in a ground takes much more than this though.
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From a neutral perspective, you can understand if there is evidence of unruly behaviour in that section then the club want to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. Moreover, I'm sure you're all aware, policing costs can be a high burden on the club.
I'm sure, in one form or another we support a singing section however, as said above if this is being used as an excuse for unruly behaviour and to intimidate away fans, then those in favour of it need to understand the difference between this and creating an atmosphere. The two are not the same.
I've always maintained the South Stand is the best place to grow a kop/singing section, call it what you like. Creating a good atmosphere in a ground takes much more than this though.
Why isn't more done then to stop away fans doing the same thing? The way the Barnsley fans were allowed to continually throw things into the home fans without anyone being ejected was disgusting.
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Also, as a point, the singing section is there the cheap season tickets are being sold for next season, what if they sell or have already sold a large number of season tickets in those blocks to these people? What happens then?
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There was no bother from the lads last night and they also tried to spread the singing by some going top and some bottom of the stand. At one point the stewards moved the lads at the bottom for no reason at all. The section is working, it's quite funny to listen to and it adds to the entertainment. Keep it up and if I were you I'd all buy season tickets in that area as there are enough left and the club would have to leave you where you are.
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Those kids would be going for handbags at the end of the game anyway. I hope this doesn't stop. It will and we'll carry on letting away fans do what they want as per.
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Members of the clubs senior management would like to meet with members of the singing section next week in order to discuss the singing section.
The meeting will take place on Wednesday 19th March, 5.30pm at the Keepmoat Stadium. Please attend if you
can.
Is it solely those from the singing section?
I wouldn't mind attending this to find out exactly why tje club are intent on keeping the Keepmoat as quiet as a morgue. A better atmosphere would surely encourage more through the door.
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Members of the clubs senior management would like to meet with members of the singing section next week in order to discuss the singing section.
The meeting will take place on Wednesday 19th March, 5.30pm at the Keepmoat Stadium. Please attend if you
can.
Is it solely those from the singing section?
I wouldn't mind attending this to find out exactly why tje club are intent on keeping the Keepmoat as quiet as a morgue. A better atmosphere would surely encourage more through the door.
Hi,
While the focus of the meeting will be surrounding the singing section and the club mainly want to meet with these fans specificly, any fan who would like to put their view across on this topic are welcome.
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Sums up my feelings exactly Sad.
Ive made my feelings clear on Facebook but feel the club owe it to our fans to give this it's best stab and act sensibly in its approach. It would be fair to describe tje Keepmoats atmosphere as shite at best!
Any section like this will always bring in a certain amount of idiots with it but the club need to manage that and it seemed they were to an extent.
Out of interest what happened to Julie? Where's this Andy fella come from?
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From a neutral perspective, you can understand if there is evidence of unruly behaviour in that section then the club want to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. Moreover, I'm sure you're all aware, policing costs can be a high burden on the club.
I'm sure, in one form or another we support a singing section however, as said above if this is being used as an excuse for unruly behaviour and to intimidate away fans, then those in favour of it need to understand the difference between this and creating an atmosphere. The two are not the same.
I've always maintained the South Stand is the best place to grow a kop/singing section, call it what you like. Creating a good atmosphere in a ground takes much more than this though.
Why isn't more done then to stop away fans doing the same thing? The way the Barnsley fans were allowed to continually throw things into the home fans without anyone being ejected was disgusting.
Mr Frost,
If you must ask questions of this nature then at least pay attention to the responses you get, it would help. When you raised this after the Barnsley game I, and a couple of others, told you that the culprits had all been identified and arrested as they left the stadium. 7 Barnsley fans are currently facing Police charges and have had their season tickets suspended pending banning orders.
Why is everything you write slanted in a negative way to either DRFC or it's supporters? I do find it odd.
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Thats where my worry lies. I dont think the club like the idea of this as it's a bit harder for them to man.
If they keep playing the safe, family with no atmosphere card they'll be sat in the same half empty stadium scenario regardless of years in the Championship.
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From a neutral perspective, you can understand if there is evidence of unruly behaviour in that section then the club want to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. Moreover, I'm sure you're all aware, policing costs can be a high burden on the club.
I'm sure, in one form or another we support a singing section however, as said above if this is being used as an excuse for unruly behaviour and to intimidate away fans, then those in favour of it need to understand the difference between this and creating an atmosphere. The two are not the same.
I've always maintained the South Stand is the best place to grow a kop/singing section, call it what you like. Creating a good atmosphere in a ground takes much more than this though.
Why isn't more done then to stop away fans doing the same thing? The way the Barnsley fans were allowed to continually throw things into the home fans without anyone being ejected was disgusting.
Mr Frost,
If you must ask questions of this nature then at least pay attention to the responses you get, it would help. When you raised this after the Barnsley game I, and a couple of others, told you that the culprits had all been identified and arrested as they left the stadium. 7 Barnsley fans are currently facing Police charges and have had their season tickets suspended pending banning orders.
Why is everything you write slanted in a negative way to either DRFC or it's supporters? I do find it odd.
Why weren't they ejected during the game is my question?
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let me decifer this.
continue to pump numbers into the "singing section" causing larger numbers of supporters to get closer to away supporters and there will have to be a larger steward/police presence to keep them apart, therefore costing the club more. simples.
it is for this reason the singing section was always going to be on stony ground. there will always be elements of this group seeking direct confrontation with away supporters. it would seem the incident post Watford game backs up this theory, and I stress this is my theory alone.
but I do know a thing or two about crowd dynamics.
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From a neutral perspective, you can understand if there is evidence of unruly behaviour in that section then the club want to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. Moreover, I'm sure you're all aware, policing costs can be a high burden on the club.
I'm sure, in one form or another we support a singing section however, as said above if this is being used as an excuse for unruly behaviour and to intimidate away fans, then those in favour of it need to understand the difference between this and creating an atmosphere. The two are not the same.
I've always maintained the South Stand is the best place to grow a kop/singing section, call it what you like. Creating a good atmosphere in a ground takes much more than this though.
Why isn't more done then to stop away fans doing the same thing? The way the Barnsley fans were allowed to continually throw things into the home fans without anyone being ejected was disgusting.
Mr Frost,
If you must ask questions of this nature then at least pay attention to the responses you get, it would help. When you raised this after the Barnsley game I, and a couple of others, told you that the culprits had all been identified and arrested as they left the stadium. 7 Barnsley fans are currently facing Police charges and have had their season tickets suspended pending banning orders.
Why is everything you write slanted in a negative way to either DRFC or it's supporters? I do find it odd.
Why weren't they ejected during the game is my question?
Mr Frost,
Some of the away supporters from Barnsley were ejected for numerous reasons throughout the game in question. All ejections and action taken by the stewarding team must be confirmed from the control room before it takes place, rather than wading in and causing more tension between fans as we have seen at other clubs, some incidents require review of CCTV footage and other things before stewards are instructed to eject.
Some fans were using flags and other fans to shield themselves being seen for setting off smoke bombs but were ejected/arrested either during the game or as SM says afterwords, following the review.
Similarly when Burnley came to the Keepmoat we received some questions from fans that they never saw anyone ejected that game after a smoke bomb was let off in the away end, but that was because an ejection took place after the culprit went down to the concourses minutes later.
Ejections such as that are an effective measure with minimum fuss and doesn't require wading through a crowd, which can sometimes bring innocent fans into harms way. Obviously, when there is no other option but to do this it is done effectively. However just because we as fans don't see it, doesn't mean nothing is happening.
Hope this helps!
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Stop it. You're ruining his conspiracy theories now!
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So a week on Saturday when we play Sheffield Wednesday will we not have as many police and stewards if we don't have a singing section? No because there will be 4000 away fans there anyway.
Let them in the corner have their banter, it's part of football. It just seems nowadays at the KM we just want 7000 home fans sat down behaving.
Look at Manchester United this season. Doing everything they can to promote this and to accommodate their more rowdier fans and groups of lads.
Removing this is just going to push away these groups of lads having them spread around the ground sat quietly from attending.
I know so many people who only go to away games because of this.
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So a week on Saturday when we play Sheffield Wednesday will we not have as many police and stewards if we don't have a singing section? No because there will be 4000 away fans there anyway.
Let them in the corner have their banter, it's part of football. It just seems nowadays at the KM we just want 7000 home fans sat down behaving.
Look at Manchester United this season. Doing everything they can to promote this and to accommodate their more rowdier fans and groups of lads.
Removing this is just going to push away these groups of lads having them spread around the ground sat quietly from attending.
I know so many people who only go to away games because of this.
Ditto. The club don't want rowdiness, that's plain to see.
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Look at Manchester United this season. Doing everything they can to promote this and to accommodate their more rowdier fans and groups of lads.
Manchester United? Sorry I don't buy that, apart from having much more money to spend on policing costs etc., its 15 years too late for most of their 'fans', especially considering some of their most passionate fans have formed their own football club...
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I take it you've not seen their support away from home then this season? Why is it 15 years too late?
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Our away support is also much more better away from home, the point is here about MUFC at Old Trafford, not away from home...
Its 15 years too late because their most passionate fans left Old Trafford and what has become Sky FC to form FC United of Manchester in 2005, but it was in the pipeline long before that when BSkyB were looking to takeover the club.
They have great away support because most of the FCUM fans still support them away, they just refuse to go to Old Trafford...
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Our away support is also much more better away from home, the point is here about MUFC at Old Trafford, not away from home...
Its 15 years too late because their most passionate fans left Old Trafford and what has become Sky FC to form FC United of Manchester in 2005, but it was in the pipeline long before that when BSkyB were looking to takeover the club.
They have great away support because most of the FCUM fans still support them away, they just refuse to go to Old Trafford...
Which is what is happening at the Keepmoat, people prefer away games.
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Wonder how they all get tickets for away games without a ST at Old Trafford.
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Its new hat to a lot of our prawn sandwich supporters to see fans stood on their feet, singing their little lungs out or to hear the odd swear.
At the end of the day, football should cater towards ALL who are interested in going to the games, wether that be the families with small impressionable kids, or the groups of teenage lads who are perhaps a bit rough around the edges... if we are to believe that they aren't a part of football culture and to try to force them out of coming then we're losing out on a massive market! Just look at any other support!!!
For every literate moaning wholesome father, i'll bet theres 4 or 5 illiterate teenage 'intimidating', foul mouthed lads - just because that father can afford a season ticket does that mean he means more to us and our 'brand' than these teens? Does their money, time, passion and needs not count as valid supporters?
Its a shame that these people aren't prioritised and given an area to be loud, annoying, tribal and 'intimidating' (near the away support, as it is in MOST other grounds) because it is THE major problem with the KMS. We should be turning our ground into a fortress of hell for visitors, it SHOULD be an uncomfortable experience, not a welcoming foyer for a lovely day out.
A class divide is necessary to stop the snobs that came along with the KMS rebrand from feeling 'intimidated' by having to look at a spotty lad in a tracksuit, just like we had at BV - they can judge from their seats, whilst the fans who want to have some 'banter' (a frightening word for the pseudo intellectual) and create an atmosphere can do it without upsetting anyone!
This is a market that feels disenfranchised by the KMS and the Rovers they know (knew?) and loved at BV on the popside, and is a culture we need to preserve - because they are plugging their money in other stadiums instead!
We used to be a pub-team band of rascals, we're now a nicely oiled corporate money machine, give me back my pub team any day!
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First off, a lot of the "prawn sandwich brigade" have been there and dunnit before you were born; they stood on terraces for years and if it's there choice to sit now, separate from the singers, they've earned that choice.
DRFC are trying to cater to all fans, hence allowing the trial of the singing section.
The keepmoat SHOULD NOT be an uncomfortable place to come for away fans and the modern game will not allow it. And I'm sure you've done plenty of research on this but just because you write that we need fans with intimidating & tribal attitudes, it doesn't mean it's actually true (although I don't find 100 or so young teenagers taking their shoes off that intimidating in the slightest, but I digress). In fact, most of the fans who are complaining about this and that on facebook would have been under 10 when we were still at Belle-Vue, which speaks volumes when they try and compare OBV with the Keepmoat.
And if DRFC were simply a corporate money machine, wouldn't we be charged the sort of prices you see at Leeds, with all their tribal, amazing fans? Who are really the fans getting bent over?
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Well said tim Ryan, the sterilisation of football is ruining it. It's one of the reasons we all fell in love with the game.
The Keepmoat is a soulless place as it is.
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First off, a lot of the "prawn sandwich brigade" have been there and dunnit before you were born; they stood on terraces for years and if it's there choice to sit now, separate from the singers, they've earned that choice.
DRFC are trying to cater to all fans, hence allowing the trial of the singing section.
The keepmoat SHOULD NOT be an uncomfortable place to come for away fans and the modern game will not allow it. And I'm sure you've done plenty of research on this but just because you write that we need fans with intimidating & tribal attitudes, it doesn't mean it's actually true (although I don't find 100 or so young teenagers taking their shoes off that intimidating in the slightest, but I digress). In fact, most of the fans who are complaining about this and that on facebook would have been under 10 when we were still at Belle-Vue, which speaks volumes when they try and compare OBV with the Keepmoat.
And if DRFC were simply a corporate money machine, wouldn't we be charged the sort of prices you see at Leeds, with all their tribal, amazing fans? Who are really the fans getting bent over?
Bore off, not sure why you like football. Perhaps you would be better suited to watching cricket, or snooker.
The keepmoat should be a fortress that teams dread to visit. When I go to away games, I expect to be intimidated, it's part of the buzz of football, all stood together outnumbered in someone else's back yard.
I tend to avoid the boring soulless stadiums, (mk dons, Bournemouth, reading. Instead I go to the ones with a bit of an edge about them, like sheffield utd, forest, millwall.
It's time Rovers stopped being so nice, time to toughen up, and give the visitors hell. as I expect to receive when Rovers go away.
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I'll bore off when you grow up :aok:
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First off, a lot of the "prawn sandwich brigade" have been there and dunnit before you were born; they stood on terraces for years and if it's there choice to sit now, separate from the singers, they've earned that choice.
DRFC are trying to cater to all fans, hence allowing the trial of the singing section.
The keepmoat SHOULD NOT be an uncomfortable place to come for away fans and the modern game will not allow it. And I'm sure you've done plenty of research on this but just because you write that we need fans with intimidating & tribal attitudes, it doesn't mean it's actually true (although I don't find 100 or so young teenagers taking their shoes off that intimidating in the slightest, but I digress). In fact, most of the fans who are complaining about this and that on facebook would have been under 10 when we were still at Belle-Vue, which speaks volumes when they try and compare OBV with the Keepmoat.
And if DRFC were simply a corporate money machine, wouldn't we be charged the sort of prices you see at Leeds, with all their tribal, amazing fans? Who are really the fans getting bent over?
Listen, im not trying to say people aren't entitled to sit down and enjoy the game in peace as they wish. Each to their own! Im merely saying, that them people alone shouldn't be catered to. First class train travellers want to enjoy their journey in peace without having to sit next to 'Barry the commoner' listening to his music too loud too, and they are indulged as well, put in the according place to keep them from having to step off their high horse!
I'd actually argue that most of the people who have been privileged enough to enjoy the fantastic experience of BV's popside probably don't go anymore (wether for monetary, cultural, matchday experience reasons is a different debate) and if they do, they probably aren't happy with the current atmosphere and vibe at the KMS.
I think the current middle classers and families became recruited as part of the 'new' DRFC, the new stadium launch and the clean environment - they have enjoyed the nice experience of our bouts of success in the Champo and never the Rushden aways or being penned in that bloody alleyway at Rotherham!!
Why we are trying to cater to JUST these people is beyond me, we're leaving the die-hards (and it seems the next generation of diehards) behind by marketing them out of the game!
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Sweeping generalisation there, mate. I used to stand on the Popside until we left Belle Vue. I had a season ticket there for the best part of 20 years and never thought of moving to anywhere else in BV. Now I sit in the West Stand (centre section) and still enjoy the experience.
I'm not saying that nothing should be done to improve the atmosphere, but to argue that the matchday experience at the Keepmoat is significantly worse than that at BV is just wrong as far as I'm concerned.
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As far as I'm concerned, the atmosphere is a lot worse at the keepmoat. What happened to the main stand gobshites? what happened to the 200 or so at the centre of the pop terrace?
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Attendance comparisons with OBV have been mentioned a few times. If the following stats are true, OBV didn't hold, on average, anywhere near as many people as the Keepmoat sees on a regular basis
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm
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As far as I'm concerned, the atmosphere is a lot worse at the keepmoat. What happened to the main stand gobshites? what happened to the 200 or so at the centre of the pop terrace?
it's all rose tinted though. For many, many games as a youngster I stood in the Town end and the place was that quiet my dad could shout at me not to wander off, safe in the knowledge I could clearly here him.
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Yes, but we aren't talking about attendances. We are talking about match day atmosphere. More fans DOES NOT equal better atmosphere
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TB,
Far too simplistic I'm afraid. And wrong. Our club can't be accused of catering just for middle classes and the family audience, our pricing structure alone would tell you that as a club every sector (just about) of the local community are catered for. Our club is different to quite a few in that we are missing a generation or two, hence the importance of growing the supporter base from the ground up and focusing on children of school age.
Most of the people who sit around me, the East stand by the way, have all been there, seen it, and done it, unlike a lot of people commenting on it on here. We were part of 'Archie's Army', we attended when football wasn't popular and riddled with hooliganism throughout the 60's and 70's. We attended England games abroad, still do, and have been treated appallingly by local plod, battered by truncheon wielding thugs dressed in paramilitary uniforms. We've seen it all.
But, to suggest the way forward is to find a return to those times when intimidation was the order of the day is wrong, wrong, wrong. Yes you have to cater for all, and match day pricing is a large part of that, as are singing sections. Our club do want to help in all those areas and have never refused to listen to voices of reason.
I would suggest that if you think our club is poor in these respects then you have no idea how other clubs operate. Most supporters I know would give their left arm for their clubs to be as cooperative as ours is.
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As far as I'm concerned, the atmosphere is a lot worse at the keepmoat. What happened to the main stand gobshites? what happened to the 200 or so at the centre of the pop terrace?
it's all rose tinted though. For many, many games as a youngster I stood in the Town end and the place was that quiet my dad could shout at me not to wander off, safe in the knowledge I could clearly here him.
It's not rose tints, on the pop terrace where I stood, the atmosphere was a lot better. that could be anything from chants, to lone gobshites gobbing off. At the keepmoat everyone just sits there waiting to be entertained, and it's become all very dull.
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As far as I'm concerned, the atmosphere is a lot worse at the keepmoat. What happened to the main stand gobshites? what happened to the 200 or so at the centre of the pop terrace?
it's all rose tinted though. For many, many games as a youngster I stood in the Town end and the place was that quiet my dad could shout at me not to wander off, safe in the knowledge I could clearly here him.
It's not rose tints, on the pop terrace where I stood, the atmosphere was a lot better. that could be anything from chants, to lone gobshites gobbing off. At the keepmoat everyone just sits there waiting to be entertained, and it's become all very dull.
That's what you get with designated seating. The people haven't changed, just the way the stadium is organised.
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As far as I'm concerned, the atmosphere is a lot worse at the keepmoat. What happened to the main stand gobshites? what happened to the 200 or so at the centre of the pop terrace?
We got older. Times have changed you either move with them or miss out. This singing section is in the wrong place it just doesn't work.
It's all well and good wanting a hostile section but if it costs the club 250k plus which it will then it's obvious that it's a non starter. congregate in the middle of the south stand and it's not going to be massively different is it?
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As far as I'm concerned, the atmosphere is a lot worse at the keepmoat. What happened to the main stand gobshites? what happened to the 200 or so at the centre of the pop terrace?
it's all rose tinted though. For many, many games as a youngster I stood in the Town end and the place was that quiet my dad could shout at me not to wander off, safe in the knowledge I could clearly here him.
It's not rose tints, on the pop terrace where I stood, the atmosphere was a lot better. that could be anything from chants, to lone gobshites gobbing off. At the keepmoat everyone just sits there waiting to be entertained, and it's become all very dull.
That's what you get with designated seating. The people haven't changed, just the way the stadium is organised.
I agree with that statement wholeheartedly.
A lot of my anger at the re-franchising of football, it supporters and the 'matchday' experience doesn't stem from Doncaster Rovers, per say, we're nowhere near as bad as a lot of other clubs, its a nationwide problem.
The reputation of the football fans from the 70's and 80's has stuck like shit, and we're scared to straddle that line between 'healthy rivalry' and a bit of intimidation for safety reasons.
Are you telling me that these stewards and police believe little Johnny nobhead in his Kicker Poppers with his other 5 mates who've never had a shave and are chanting 'abusive' songs are an actual threat akin to the firms of the 80's? Of course they arent! People claiming that these lads are 'intimidating A certain level of understanding into proper 'football culture' needs to be executed by our stewards and safety officers to successfully pull off this Singing Section - i'd recommend we train them up by sending them to Poznan for a few games, or even Leeds or Millwall to officiate their fans... come back with a positive and rounded opinion that our 'troublesome' supporters are angels by most clubs standards.
I'm so disappointed to hear the KMS have decided to ban this when it is just getting off the ground, because a few people find it 'intimidating'. They need to assess what intimidates them, and man up a little - or move to a new, nicer area of the stadium!
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Reason it's not in the middle of the South Stand is because right in the middle of the South Stand it's heavily populated with Season ticket holders compared to the NW.
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Some people have made that effort, and the stadium management have intervened and will inevitably nip it in the bud because it upset a few of our mollycoddled precious wall-flowers.
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Which is bending the truth a little bit isn't it?
The club have offered a meeting to iron out the issues which stem from the youths who think they are playing the part of Extra's in Green Street.
So do you give in? Or make the youths see the error of their ways?
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First off, a lot of the "prawn sandwich brigade" have been there and dunnit before you were born; they stood on terraces for years and if it's there choice to sit now, separate from the singers, they've earned that choice.
DRFC are trying to cater to all fans, hence allowing the trial of the singing section.
The keepmoat SHOULD NOT be an uncomfortable place to come for away fans and the modern game will not allow it. And I'm sure you've done plenty of research on this but just because you write that we need fans with intimidating & tribal attitudes, it doesn't mean it's actually true (although I don't find 100 or so young teenagers taking their shoes off that intimidating in the slightest, but I digress). In fact, most of the fans who are complaining about this and that on facebook would have been under 10 when we were still at Belle-Vue, which speaks volumes when they try and compare OBV with the Keepmoat.
And if DRFC were simply a corporate money machine, wouldn't we be charged the sort of prices you see at Leeds, with all their tribal, amazing fans? Who are really the fans getting bent over?
Bore off, not sure why you like football. Perhaps you would be better suited to watching cricket, or snooker.
The keepmoat should be a fortress that teams dread to visit. When I go to away games, I expect to be intimidated, it's part of the buzz of football, all stood together outnumbered in someone else's back yard.
I tend to avoid the boring soulless stadiums, (mk dons, Bournemouth, reading. Instead I go to the ones with a bit of an edge about them, like sheffield utd, forest, millwall.
It's time Rovers stopped being so nice, time to toughen up, and give the visitors hell. as I expect to receive when Rovers go away.
Spot on.
If the club decide to do away with the singing section 3 games in, then there's no hope and never will be.
I was going to buy a season ticket next season, I reckon i'll spend my cash on away games instead now.
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They haven't banned it have they?
I'll tell you what, if they do then I can't see the attraction in going to the keepmoat.
I'll stick to the away games
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I think all three of you have got the wrong vibe from the club.
In the last two games the Police and the stewards have been furthers strained by this section (albeit a minority of morons) adding a further cost to the club in terms of safety.
The club as a result has offered an opportunity to discuss this for the future. I'm sure it will go along the lines of 'any further issues and it goes'.
So if you three want this section so much, why not attend and suggest how you think this can be done without causing irritation to those around the section.
Maybe offer to help self police these young impressionable youths, it'll make you see how difficult it is to steward a load of testosterone and alcohol fuelled teenagers.
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I don't see the problem. I've been to many away games over the last few years where the home team has fans congregated next to the away fans. The police and stewards just let them get on with it.
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I'm sorry but if a singing section causes irritation, then either don't come to the football. Or sit in the east stand where you will be accommodated.
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No they haven't banned it. My understanding is it's the Police who are not accepting the match day arrangements. The club have spent a lot of time and effort reducing the amount of Police at our games, and we were the first club in SY to have Police free games depending on designation.
If the Police choose to designate all games differently then the Police bill will rise rapidly. That won't be acceptable to the club.
It will be about negotiation with supporters, it always is. I know certain people have said, on here, that meetings aren't required just get on with it, but it's never that simple. The FSF had to intervene at Middlesborough on behalf of the Red Faction, they were involved at Leicester with the Fosse Boys and at Sunderland, Cardiff, Leeds, just to name a few, to help with their singing sections. That might not be necessary at DRFC because the club are willing to talk. If I was one of you guys in the NW corner I would go to the meeting, you might be pleasantly surprised at how much help the club will give you.
Chanting the names of certain members of staff, without knowing the full facts, won't do your cause much good though.
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I don't see the problem. I've been to many away games over the last few years where the home team has fans congregated next to the away fans. The police and stewards just let them get on with it.
There's not a problem, just some fans seem to be making out there is one. Its not like it's doing them any harm
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Neither... i don't believe any course of action needs taking at this stage as nobody has really suffered any feasible discomfort from their presence. If the argument is 'they have offended some of our season ticket holders' then that is frankly pathetic, this is Doncaster Rovers, the scruffy pub-team, not Augusta National Golf Club.
If there are actual criminals committing criminal activity, then fine, take a look at it... but to throw the towel in over assumed behaviours based on 'green street' stereotypes smacks of us soaking up some of the media fear-mongering that gives the common football fan a bad rep and leaves society with a fear of groups of youths. Then the people in the high power positions go citing 'health and safety' and 'intimidation' as a means to justify a blatant prejudice.
To quote Frank Turner: "For every teenage tracksuit mugger, theres a guy in a suit that wouldn't lift a finger for anybody else"
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Yeah, fcuk it, let's forget our season ticket holders who prop up the club every season...
:suicide:
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No, lets not forget them.
But lets not prioritise them either! Their money is JUST as important as these youth's money, just because their literacy skills might be better honed doesn't mean their opinions and experiences are more valid.
Thats a problem the VSC has with its diplomacy as well, the elitist treatment of its members opinions and access to information.
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oh dear, here we go, it's all the fault of the trust now... :rolleyes:
Season Ticket Holders should, and will, always be prioritised. They allow the club to set budgets each year, and they bring in the regular income. Let's also remember that the Season ticket holders who may have been affected by the singing area may have been sat in the same seat for 6 or 7 years.
Why would you bring up anything to do with literacy skills, and why would you suggest the younger fans don't have any? Are your next posts going to mention Hitler by any chance...
And I'm not sure you are in a position to be judging anyone on diplomacy skills...
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There would have been a large police presence anyway for the last 2 games due to the fact that we've had 2800 fans in the away end.
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oh dear, here we go, it's all the fault of the trust now... :rolleyes:
Season Ticket Holders should, and will, always be prioritised. They allow the club to set budgets each year, and they bring in the regular income. Let's also remember that the Season ticket holders who may have been affected by the singing area may have been sat in the same seat for 6 or 7 years.
Why would you bring up anything to do with literacy skills, and why would you suggest the younger fans don't have any? Are your next posts going to mention Hitler by any chance...
And I'm not sure you are in a position to be judging anyone on diplomacy skills...
As a general rule, i always think as soon as the word 'Hilter' appears in anyones debate about anything (other than world politics) it means they're running out of ideas! ;)
Well i disagree with that system, its all well and good that we have a committed band of supporters with the free income and commitment to buy a season ticket, and thank god for them for their commitment...
But if you go to any business as a customer, lets say Tesco as an example, wether you are a clubcard holder or not, wether you are buying a packet of smart price cheese curls or spending £500 on electronics your needs as a customer are all equally important, because they see the value in customer satisfaction.
We have a small percentage of unhappy pedants because they can't sit in a seat (that is the same replicated piece of plastic with just as good a view all around the stadium)... and a much much higher percentage of supporters who are unsatisfied with the atmosphere.
But its easier to berate those in the tracksuits isn't it.
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Just remember there's a disabled section in the area in question; those in wheelchairs can't be easily relocated if they have any problems with the singing section, not that they or any other season ticket holder should be made to relocate
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What's your answer then bobjimwilly you are forever thinking of potential problems but never giving any solutions.
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you are forever thinking of potential problems but never giving any solutions.
Is there an emoticon that represents "speechless"?
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sorry for the age I took to respond (10 mins?), I'm trying to do some work at the same time here, which is proving quite difficult...
My answer is I don't perceive the "problem" to be as bad as some suggest, or easy to solve as writing a couple of posts on a forum. I also, believe it or not, prefer to work directly with those that can make a difference it the real world, rather than anonymous posters on an internet forum. C'est la vie
here's an emoticon (http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/images/wonk.gif)
I think he's shaking his fist in this one?
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Attendance comparisons with OBV have been mentioned a few times. If the following stats are true, OBV didn't hold, on average, anywhere near as many people as the Keepmoat sees on a regular basis
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm
What that also tells me is just how abysmal our cup performances have been since 1902. I doubt that there are many clubs in the modern game that have performed quite as badly . :(
That over the years has also drastically had a negative effect on our Club's cash flow.
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Just remember there's a disabled section in the area in question; those in wheelchairs can't be easily relocated if they have any problems with the singing section, not that they or any other season ticket holder should be made to relocate
What are you suggesting then Bjw that pockets of 'beraters' should sit amongst those trying to create an atmosphere ?
I disagree we can't have it both ways I.e. a stadium that creates an atmosphere with the 'singers' together and a ghetto of a few individuals who refuse to move !!!
There are plenty of unused seats in the Km offering a similar view for these folk surely ?
If we all thought like you we would never have any motorways or airports in this country
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sorry for the age I took to respond (10 mins?), I'm trying to do some work at the same time here, which is proving quite difficult...
My answer is I don't perceive the "problem" to be as bad as some suggest, or easy to solve as writing a couple of posts on a forum. I also, believe it or not, prefer to work directly with those that can make a difference it the real world, rather than anonymous posters on an internet forum. C'est la vie
here's an emoticon (http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/images/wonk.gif)
I think he's shaking his fist in this one?
Doesn't this go against the message board rules?
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If we all thought like you we would never have any motorways or airports in this country
:saywhat:
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Yeah, fcuk it, let's forget our season ticket holders who prop up the club every season...
:suicide:
I'm sure I told you to bore off
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I sit in this area as do several friends and we have next seasons tickets bought. Just because we have done this does not mean that we don't want the singing section. Not everyone has to bounce all the game to assist the atmosphere. A season ticket does not an old fart make!
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oh dear, here we go, it's all the fault of the trust now... :rolleyes:
Season Ticket Holders should, and will, always be prioritised. They allow the club to set budgets each year, and they bring in the regular income. Let's also remember that the Season ticket holders who may have been affected by the singing area may have been sat in the same seat for 6 or 7 years.
Why would you bring up anything to do with literacy skills, and why would you suggest the younger fans don't have any? Are your next posts going to mention Hitler by any chance...
And I'm not sure you are in a position to be judging anyone on diplomacy skills...
As a general rule, i always think as soon as the word 'Hilter' appears in anyones debate about anything (other than world politics) it means they're running out of ideas! ;)
Well i disagree with that system, its all well and good that we have a committed band of supporters with the free income and commitment to buy a season ticket, and thank god for them for their commitment...
But if you go to any business as a customer, lets say Tesco as an example, wether you are a clubcard holder or not, wether you are buying a packet of smart price cheese curls or spending £500 on electronics your needs as a customer are all equally important, because they see the value in customer satisfaction.
We have a small percentage of unhappy pedants because they can't sit in a seat (that is the same replicated piece of plastic with just as good a view all around the stadium)... and a much much higher percentage of supporters who are unsatisfied with the atmosphere.
But its easier to berate those in the tracksuits isn't it.
Attend the meeting, put your point forward
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What's your answer then bobjimwilly you are forever thinking of potential problems but never giving any solutions.
Attend the meeting and put your solutions to the people that have invited you
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sorry for the age I took to respond (10 mins?), I'm trying to do some work at the same time here, which is proving quite difficult...
My answer is I don't perceive the "problem" to be as bad as some suggest, or easy to solve as writing a couple of posts on a forum. I also, believe it or not, prefer to work directly with those that can make a difference it the real world, rather than anonymous posters on an internet forum. C'est la vie
here's an emoticon (http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/images/wonk.gif)
I think he's shaking his fist in this one?
Is this a guy who participates in "warning" people? As a little yardstick, I got PM warned by a mod for referring (in general terms) to unspecified posters as "neanderthals". One rule for one eh..... Like most things, and readily demonstrated on here all too frequently, a little bit of power goes to folk's heads. Sad.
I can't find the emoticon for brainless.
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Its pathetic, can't work out the guys problem
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sorry for the age I took to respond (10 mins?), I'm trying to do some work at the same time here, which is proving quite difficult...
My answer is I don't perceive the "problem" to be as bad as some suggest, or easy to solve as writing a couple of posts on a forum. I also, believe it or not, prefer to work directly with those that can make a difference it the real world, rather than anonymous posters on an internet forum. C'est la vie
here's an emoticon (http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/images/wonk.gif)
I think he's shaking his fist in this one?
Is this a guy who participates in "warning" people? As a little yardstick, I got PM warned by a mod for referring (in general terms) to unspecified posters as "neanderthals". One rule for one eh..... Like most things, and readily demonstrated on here all too frequently, a little bit of power goes to folk's heads. Sad.
I can't find the emoticon for brainless.
Exactly. How is it certain moderators can behave how they like?
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What's your answer then bobjimwilly you are forever thinking of potential problems but never giving any solutions.
Attend the meeting and put your solutions to the people that have invited you
I'll be working.
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As far as I'm concerned, the atmosphere is a lot worse at the keepmoat. What happened to the main stand gobshites? what happened to the 200 or so at the centre of the pop terrace?
I think they now sit right behind me.
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Are the club going to announce the meeting on the club website so fans actually find out there is a meeting?
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What's your answer then bobjimwilly you are forever thinking of potential problems but never giving any solutions.
Attend the meeting and put your solutions to the people that have invited you
I'll be working.
Your good with a keyboard send an email. Also people from the club are around the ground on matchday perhaps go make your point then.
Anyone who has a problem go to the meeting, send an email, letter or have a phone call with them. Plenty of opportunity and they'll do it for you.
Moaning here will not get you what you want.
I still don't get it though. We all manage to ring in our area of the south stand. Difference is my take on an atmosphere is getting behind the team not cringey stuff about girls with sti's...
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Theres not enough room in the south stand due to everyone sitting down 5 rows from the back preventing all the signings congregating together!
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What's your answer then bobjimwilly you are forever thinking of potential problems but never giving any solutions.
Attend the meeting and put your solutions to the people that have invited you
I'll be working.
Your good with a keyboard send an email. Also people from the club are around the ground on matchday perhaps go make your point then.
Anyone who has a problem go to the meeting, send an email, letter or have a phone call with them. Plenty of opportunity and they'll do it for you.
Moaning here will not get you what you want.
I still don't get it though. We all manage to ring in our area of the south stand. Difference is my take on an atmosphere is getting behind the team not cringey stuff about girls with sti's...
But that's the whole point BFYP, that is the start and end of what he wants.
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Theres not enough room in the south stand due to everyone sitting down 5 rows from the back preventing all the signings congregating together
Actually as SM has pointed out before its a "singing section" not a "standing section"
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Most people who want to be in a singing section want to be stood up. I wish I could stand at games but that would peev the person sat in row R of South stand off.
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Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but would keeping fans in the singing section for 5-10 mins after the game solve the problem with the 'green street extras'. I know its not ideal but if you know before hand that you will be kept behind then you can plan accordingly in regards to travel. Keep the Kiosks open so people can get a pint (more income)
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Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but would keeping fans in the singing section for 5-10 mins after the game solve the problem with the 'green street extras'. I know its not ideal but if you know before hand that you will be kept behind then you can plan accordingly in regards to travel. Keep the Kiosks open so people can get a pint (more income)
I would imagine that would be extremely difficult to accommodate. If you knew that was going to happen, you'd just leave 5 minutes before kickoff. In fact, I'd imagine it's unwarranted to do that with your own fans.
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Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but would keeping fans in the singing section for 5-10 mins after the game solve the problem with the 'green street extras'. I know its not ideal but if you know before hand that you will be kept behind then you can plan accordingly in regards to travel. Keep the Kiosks open so people can get a pint (more income)
I would imagine that would be extremely difficult to accommodate. If you knew that was going to happen, you'd just leave 5 minutes before kickoff. In fact, I'd imagine it's unwarranted to do that with your own fans.
Still waiting to hear some suggestions of your own...............
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I'm sure plenty are waiting for you to action some of your suggestions Mr Frost. You blow plenty of hot air but baulk at actually doing something about it!
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Still waiting to hear some suggestions of your own...............
My answer is I don't perceive the "problem" to be as bad as some suggest, or easy to solve as writing a couple of posts on a forum. I also, believe it or not, prefer to work directly with those that can make a difference it the real world, rather than anonymous posters on an internet forum. C'est la vie
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I'm VERY disappointed with a very small section of our fans that have suddenly decided that they are extras from Green Street.
I took my 5 year old into the singing section for the Hudds game and we had a great time and didn't feel the atmosphere was intimidating at all but did notice that a very small section of our fans (around 10) were more interested in baiting the away fans and left en masse 5 mins before full time to cause trouble.
Obviously this ISN'T what the singing section is about and I hope the club identify those responsible. I'm hoping that this won't be the end of the experiment and we'll continue but a lot rests on this meeting.
I won't say it but I did try to make you aware this might happen.
We do still have the example of the Middlesborough red faction, who managed to come to an agreement with the football club and still generate a better atmosphere in a new location.
I would urge you to speak Shaun Lockwood about it. It would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The atmosphere certainly has improved in recent games and we don't want to lose that.
It could be worth trying to talk to the 'green street' kids about what it is you want the singing section to be and ask them for their cooperation. You never know they might respond to that.
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Yeah, fcuk it, let's forget our season ticket holders who prop up the club every season...
:suicide:
I'm sure I told you to bore off
Well done!
You won that argument with great wit and intelligence.
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This is one of those problems I see both sides of view on and it's difficult to think of the ideal solution...On one hand its good that we have a singing section,it improves the atmosphere for all and that can only be a good thing,and as one of those singers when I was a young un in the popside I can appreciate the interest....However I also see some others point of view...When I was stood in the portacabin at Belle vue looking at the stadium plans and picking my seat,I gave it a great deal of thought as I knew as a long term s/t holder it was a long term descision..So a few years later I would be pretty miffed if others rocked up stood up in front of me for half the match and said if I don't like it I should move because they had declared it a singing section.....Some wont mind but some with young kids may find it a problem....Not a easy one this and the club have at least tried to address the problem with the meeting....
The one thing I will say is its time we started showing each others opinion a bit of respect....Its the same old faces upset with the same old people...In some ways the subject is immaterial,some posters seem to just take issue with points on the basis on whose made them rather than their context which isn't helpful to anybody.........
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Members of the clubs senior management would like to meet with members of the singing section next week in order to discuss the singing section.
The meeting will take place on Wednesday 19th March, 5.30pm at the Keepmoat Stadium. Please attend if you can.
Further to the above post, please be aware that the club has had to move the date for the above meeting to Thursday 20th March at 5.30 pm in the Restaurant in the East Stand. Please accept clubs and our apologies for any inconvenience caused and we look forward to seeing you on Thursday.
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Members of the clubs senior management would like to meet with members of the singing section next week in order to discuss the singing section.
The meeting will take place on Wednesday 19th March, 5.30pm at the Keepmoat Stadium. Please attend if you can.
Further to the above post, please be aware that the club has had to move the date for the above meeting to Thursday 20th March at 5.30 pm in the Restaurant in the East Stand. Please accept clubs and our apologies for any inconvenience caused and we look forward to seeing you on Thursday.
I see you cannot buy tickets in that area for the Sheffield Wednesday game, so it looks as if it certainly won't be happening this saturday.
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If we all thought like you we would never have any motorways or airports in this country
:saywhat:
It's called progress bjw i.e. individual sacrifice for the general good of the club.
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If we all thought like you we would never have any motorways or airports in this country
:saywhat:
It's called progress bjw i.e. individual sacrifice for the general good of the club.
that's a very subjective view hoola. Let's see what is said at the meeting before commenting further.
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After reading the frankly embarrassing thread about this on the facebook site from those big rough tough little boys of the ddr (who look like a gust of wind would blow them over) ...I am now prepared to come off the fence and say the club should have nothing to do with it and make sure it doesn't happen...We need that Police money for the team,not to nurse maid little boys who think there all big and hard....
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I wouldn't go that far. We do need somewhere for something like this, but as usual it just looks as though a minority of Kitsons want to ruin it for the rest by thinking they're f**king heroes.
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After reading the frankly embarrassing thread about this on the facebook site from those big rough tough little boys of the ddr (who look like a gust of wind would blow them over) ...I am now prepared to come off the fence and say the club should have nothing to do with it and make sure it doesn't happen...We need that Police money for the team,not to nurse maid little boys who think there all big and hard....
What would you suggest to improve the non existent atmosphere?
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After reading the frankly embarrassing thread about this on the facebook site from those big rough tough little boys of the ddr (who look like a gust of wind would blow them over) ...I am now prepared to come off the fence and say the club should have nothing to do with it and make sure it doesn't happen...We need that Police money for the team,not to nurse maid little boys who think there all big and hard....
What would you suggest to improve the non existent atmosphere?
It's not his job ;)
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After reading the frankly embarrassing thread about this on the facebook site from those big rough tough little boys of the ddr (who look like a gust of wind would blow them over) ...I am now prepared to come off the fence and say the club should have nothing to do with it and make sure it doesn't happen...We need that Police money for the team,not to nurse maid little boys who think there all big and hard....
What would you suggest to improve the non existent atmosphere?
It's not his job ;)
I doubt he's got time for making suggestions either.
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A few young lads and a few older ones, chanting obcenities at the opposition fans is a misrepresentation of what a singing section should be. Success of it could be measured in how many others join in. Even then can we honestly say it improves the atmosphere? The crowd involvement is so dependant on what happens on the pitch, it's very difficult to force an atmosphere. I expect with or without the singing section, there will be a good atmosphere on Saturday.
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I've said before its a tough question to find a solution for...However what isn't the solution is putting people like those kids right next to the away fans when it's pretty obvious after recent events what will happen...We will lose the none police games and the money that goes with it because they cant be trusted to behave...I wouldn't expect the club to take that chance and they haven't hence the Sheff Wed and the reluctance to sell tickets in that area....
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Will not having a singing section mean that those who want to go and have a scrap with opposition fans won't anymore? No
I don't see why they've banned it for those who want to go in there this Saturday as there will be a large police presence anyway due to the away following.
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After reading the frankly embarrassing thread about this on the facebook site from those big rough tough little boys of the ddr (who look like a gust of wind would blow them over) ...I am now prepared to come off the fence and say the club should have nothing to do with it and make sure it doesn't happen...We need that Police money for the team,not to nurse maid little boys who think there all big and hard....
I wish that all these lads were as soft as you would like to portray. Perhaps Donny folk are just soft or maybe you haven't been out on a friday night in town for quite some time ? Answers please......
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After reading the frankly embarrassing thread about this on the facebook site from those big rough tough little boys of the ddr (who look like a gust of wind would blow them over) ...I am now prepared to come off the fence and say the club should have nothing to do with it and make sure it doesn't happen...We need that Police money for the team,not to nurse maid little boys who think there all big and hard....
What would you suggest to improve the non existent atmosphere?
It's not his job ;)
No you're right Filo …....it's Everyone's job.
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I think its great, put all the kitsons together so the rest of us don't have to deal with them
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Hoolahoop I can only comment on those who replied on the facebook thread who seemed to take pride in being DDR...their profile pics reminded me of one direction fans and most were just young boys who looked like a windy day would knock them over...They really wouldn't want to get involved with the proper misters I'm sure because frankly it would be a one punch bloodbath...
I've known quite a few DDR lads over the years and none of them looked like that...lol
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They can do what they want in town...I just think the club will be very reluctant to be supportive of any ideas on this subject after they read a thread like that,which I'm sure they have....They are not helping there own case for a singing section.....
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It seems the club have already stated they won't sell tickets to anyone in that area of the stadium for the rest of the season.
Everyone who wants the singing section to be there ought to buy their season tickets on that area for next season. There would be little the club do then. Unless they wanted to piss plenty of people off.
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
The incidents were a flash in the pan. Nothing more and I've heard of far worse happening on match days. It's an excuse for them to ditch it pure and simple.
Ahh just read as well no new season tickets will be sold in that area either so it appears they've drastically reduced the number of cat c season tickets available. Bravo.
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I can see were your coming from MrFrost and your right they are just sporadic acts of cowardice....And in the old days their would be a lot worse happening on a average Saturday afternoon...However why should the club take the chance??What do they have to gain?? To the club the risks outweigh the benefits and I can understand that point of view too
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I sat in the NW corner for the Barnsley game. Thought the atmosphere was brilliant. Went back to sit in the South for the Huddersfield/Watford games and i reckon i can count on one hand the amount of songs from the South. Absolutely awful.
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
The incidents were a flash in the pan. Nothing more and I've heard of far worse happening on match days. It's an excuse for them to ditch it pure and simple.
Ahh just read as well no new season tickets will be sold in that area either so it appears they've drastically reduced the number of cat c season tickets available. Bravo.
Top post MrFrost, you're right!!
The club are using an isolated, outside of the stadium incident by a very small group of idiots to pin a well banded around stereotype onto a project dreamt up by a larger group of positive and pro-active people who are trying to create a bit of an atmosphere around the place!
I think the way the club are going about this will be a nail in the coffin of our hopes of having any continual atmosphere in the KMS, the club, the stewards, the 'policing budget' and a lot of the more pedantic season ticket holders just don't seem to be willing to accommodate it.
They should do a match-day experience survey amongst KMS visitors, if they could mark a simple 'atmosphere' 1-10 mark on their way out how do you think we'd score? 1, maybe 2 at a push?
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Chucking a flare back at the Barnsley fans probably wasn't very clever.
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
The incidents were a flash in the pan. Nothing more and I've heard of far worse happening on match days. It's an excuse for them to ditch it pure and simple.
Ahh just read as well no new season tickets will be sold in that area either so it appears they've drastically reduced the number of cat c season tickets available. Bravo.
Top post MrFrost, you're right!!
The club are using an isolated, outside of the stadium incident by a very small group of idiots to pin a well banded around stereotype onto a project dreamt up by a larger group of positive and pro-active people who are trying to create a bit of an atmosphere around the place!
I think the way the club are going about this will be a nail in the coffin of our hopes of having any continual atmosphere in the KMS, the club, the stewards, the 'policing budget' and a lot of the more pedantic season ticket holders just don't seem to be willing to accommodate it.
They should do a match-day experience survey amongst KMS visitors, if they could mark a simple 'atmosphere' 1-10 mark on their way out how do you think we'd score? 1, maybe 2 at a push?
Will you be attending the meeting to air your concerns?
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Where were they meant to throw it? If it lands at your feet it goes back in the direction it came from.
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
The incidents were a flash in the pan. Nothing more and I've heard of far worse happening on match days. It's an excuse for them to ditch it pure and simple.
Ahh just read as well no new season tickets will be sold in that area either so it appears they've drastically reduced the number of cat c season tickets available. Bravo.
Top post MrFrost, you're right!!
The club are using an isolated, outside of the stadium incident by a very small group of idiots to pin a well banded around stereotype onto a project dreamt up by a larger group of positive and pro-active people who are trying to create a bit of an atmosphere around the place!
I think the way the club are going about this will be a nail in the coffin of our hopes of having any continual atmosphere in the KMS, the club, the stewards, the 'policing budget' and a lot of the more pedantic season ticket holders just don't seem to be willing to accommodate it.
They should do a match-day experience survey amongst KMS visitors, if they could mark a simple 'atmosphere' 1-10 mark on their way out how do you think we'd score? 1, maybe 2 at a push?
Will you be attending the meeting to air your concerns?
It's all you can contribute isn't Filo? Trying to point score over those who might not be able to attend.
Oh and with some brilliant foresight, the club announced the meeting just to push it back a day.
Pathetic. They've lost 3 potential season ticket sales from me and a couple of others with this farce, as that's where we wanted to sit. We've decided we will go to away games instead.
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Where were they meant to throw it? If it lands at your feet it goes back in the direction it came from.
How about don't throw it anywhere?
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Pathetic, that's irony considering you will now not buy a ST because you can't sit in a small slither of the ground! Is it really that important that you aren't willing to sit elsewhere!?
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
The incidents were a flash in the pan. Nothing more and I've heard of far worse happening on match days. It's an excuse for them to ditch it pure and simple.
Ahh just read as well no new season tickets will be sold in that area either so it appears they've drastically reduced the number of cat c season tickets available. Bravo.
Do you think the police thought it was just a 'flash in the pan' or an ongoing problem that has to be continually monitored in case of more 'flashes in the pan'?
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Pathetic, that's irony considering you will now not buy a ST because you can't sit in a small slither of the ground! Is it really that important that you aren't willing to sit elsewhere!?
ames
It's not just that. It's the clubs attitude, the experience of the Keepmoat as a whole. I much prefer away games, but thought the singing section would be a way to try and breath a bit of life into the place.
I'm not the only one in that mindset either.
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There's always an excuse with Mr frost isn't there? You could probably right a book with them.
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
The incidents were a flash in the pan. Nothing more and I've heard of far worse happening on match days. It's an excuse for them to ditch it pure and simple.
Ahh just read as well no new season tickets will be sold in that area either so it appears they've drastically reduced the number of cat c season tickets available. Bravo.
Top post MrFrost, you're right!!
The club are using an isolated, outside of the stadium incident by a very small group of idiots to pin a well banded around stereotype onto a project dreamt up by a larger group of positive and pro-active people who are trying to create a bit of an atmosphere around the place!
I think the way the club are going about this will be a nail in the coffin of our hopes of having any continual atmosphere in the KMS, the club, the stewards, the 'policing budget' and a lot of the more pedantic season ticket holders just don't seem to be willing to accommodate it.
They should do a match-day experience survey amongst KMS visitors, if they could mark a simple 'atmosphere' 1-10 mark on their way out how do you think we'd score? 1, maybe 2 at a push?
Will you be attending the meeting to air your concerns?
It's all you can contribute isn't Filo? Trying to point score over those who might not be able to attend.
Oh and with some brilliant foresight, the club announced the meeting just to push it back a day.
Pathetic. They've lost 3 potential season ticket sales from me and a couple of others with this farce, as that's where we wanted to sit. We've decided we will go to away games instead.
Thats about 15 season tickets you've threatened not to buy for one reason or another over the last couple of seasons!
I'm genuinely interested to see how far the most vociferous are prepared to go, beyond venting a lot of hot air over the internet
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There's always an excuse with Mr frost isn't there? You could probably right a book with them.
Unfair.
Frosty has sent a 4 page email to the club, full of ideas.
The fact emails don't come in pages, the club never got it, he hasn't got time for sharing ideas anyway, it's not his job to come up with ideas and all the ideas he's shared on here have been tried, failed or discounted by professionals is neither here nor there.
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There's always an excuse with Mr frost isn't there? You could probably right a book with them.
Unfair.
Frosty has sent a 4 page email to the club, full of ideas.
The fact emails don't come in pages, the club never got it, he hasn't got time for sharing ideas anyway, it's not his job to come up with ideas and all the ideas he's shared on here have been tried, failed or discounted by professionals is neither here nor there.
So i'm not a professional? Okay.
Like I said, i'm not the only one with this mindset. If the club are happy to lose money because they want to turn the place into a morgue that's fine by me. I'll enjoy the away games I go to.
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
The incidents were a flash in the pan. Nothing more and I've heard of far worse happening on match days. It's an excuse for them to ditch it pure and simple.
Ahh just read as well no new season tickets will be sold in that area either so it appears they've drastically reduced the number of cat c season tickets available. Bravo.
Do you think the police thought it was just a 'flash in the pan' or an ongoing problem that has to be continually monitored in case of more 'flashes in the pan'?
Just in case Mr Frost has missed it, I'll point it out to him again.
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If the police got to the core of the problem and weeded out the bad apples, the well intentioned fans could continue with their efforts to improve the Keepmoat atmosphere.
Nottingham Forest surround the away fans with their supporters close to the right of them, AND above them! Does this mean that their fans are better behaved than ours? Does this mean the Notts police are better at crowd control than ours?
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Apparently "the usual VSC suspects" are all Kitsons, that's what it says on their FB page so it must true. f**kin pricks still want to come on here though, two faced w**kers.
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Some of the hogwash on this thread just makes you wonder. Unless I've missed something....
1. Has the club said it wants to kill the singing section stone dead?
2. Has the club said it wants to prevent good atmospheres evolving?
3. Has the club taken action to nip in the bud unruly behaviour to ensure
the enjoyment of others are not compromised?
4. Has the club also taken action to progress things by holding a meeting
for all interested parties?
Isn't the above totally reasonable?
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Donnybaz they have said they won't sell in that area for the rest of season and won't allow new season ticket holders in that area which by coincidence is where half the category c season tickets are.
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Some of the hogwash on this thread just makes you wonder. Unless I've missed something....
1. Has the club said it wants to kill the singing section stone dead?
2. Has the club said it wants to prevent good atmospheres evolving?
3. Has the club taken action to nip in the bud unruly behaviour to ensure
the enjoyment of others are not compromised?
4. Has the club also taken action to progress things by holding a meeting
for all interested parties?
Isn't the above totally reasonable?
Question 3. If the answer to this is yes, why is the section still closed to people wishing to but tickets there?
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May be they wish to keep things as they are until any developments come from the meeting on Thursday.
Shaun indicated to me they we're close to selling out of Cat C seats for next season. Could that be a reason they are not selling any more?
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Question 3. If the answer to this is yes, why is the section still closed to people wishing to but tickets there?
I don't know BB. Maybe they have frozen sales in that area as preventative measure until they have had this meeting.
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If someone started swearing and using threatening behaviour in a pub, would you;
1) Bar the person from the premises.
2) Tell him to sit somewhere else.
3) Declare the table he was sat at out of bounds for future patrons.
Of course the obvious answer is (or should be!) number one. Number 2 simply moves the trouble to a different part of the pub, and number 3 just reduces the capacity of the pub.
I think it’s common sense really.......
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If someone started swearing and using threatening behaviour in a pub, would you;
1) Bar the person from the premises.
2) Tell him to sit somewhere else.
3) Declare the table he was sat at out of bounds for future patrons.
Of course the obvious answer is (or should be!) number one. Number 2 simply moves the trouble to a different part of the pub, and number 3 just reduces the capacity of the pub.
I think it’s common sense really.......
Pub culture and football culture arent exactly the same though are they?
Try this analogy - if a regular had a few too many and started having a dance and annoying a few punters despite most of the other punters enjoying his behaviour and agreeing the pub needs a bit more life to it...
Would you bar that punter for life?
Depends if your running a life and soul, loud and proud pub or a quiet wine bar doesnt it!
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
The incidents were a flash in the pan. Nothing more and I've heard of far worse happening on match days. It's an excuse for them to ditch it pure and simple.
Ahh just read as well no new season tickets will be sold in that area either so it appears they've drastically reduced the number of cat c season tickets available. Bravo.
Top post MrFrost, you're right!!
The club are using an isolated, outside of the stadium incident by a very small group of idiots to pin a well banded around stereotype onto a project dreamt up by a larger group of positive and pro-active people who are trying to create a bit of an atmosphere around the place!
I think the way the club are going about this will be a nail in the coffin of our hopes of having any continual atmosphere in the KMS, the club, the stewards, the 'policing budget' and a lot of the more pedantic season ticket holders just don't seem to be willing to accommodate it.
They should do a match-day experience survey amongst KMS visitors, if they could mark a simple 'atmosphere' 1-10 mark on their way out how do you think we'd score? 1, maybe 2 at a push?
Will you be attending the meeting to air your concerns?
Yeah, shall i keep an eye out for you? I've no idea what you look like, but i'll know which table has you, Glyn, Silent Majority and BigCol on it by you all rimming each other... :scarf:
No, i'll not be there, I haven't got an axe to grind either way. I actually feel sorry for the lads that have put time and effort into getting this initiative off the ground, it's a great initiative that has been spoiled by a small minority, I hope some common ground can be found as a result of the meeting. You seemed to have already come to your conclusions about how things will proceed before the meeting has taken place, which in all fairness is not being helpful, take your thoughts and ideas to the meeting, have some dialogue first before you have your rant, you never know the club might just be receptive to your ideas and opinions.
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If someone started swearing and using threatening behaviour in a pub, would you;
1) Bar the person from the premises.
2) Tell him to sit somewhere else.
3) Declare the table he was sat at out of bounds for future patrons.
Of course the obvious answer is (or should be!) number one. Number 2 simply moves the trouble to a different part of the pub, and number 3 just reduces the capacity of the pub.
I think it’s common sense really.......
Pub culture and football culture arent exactly the same though are they?
Try this analogy - if a regular had a few too many and started having a dance and annoying a few punters despite most of the other punters enjoying his behaviour and agreeing the pub needs a bit more life to it...
Would you bar that punter for life?
Depends if your running a life and soul, loud and proud pub or a quiet wine bar doesnt it!
If he started swearing and using threatening behaviour, then yes I'd bar him.
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To be fair I cant blame them really...The club have worked hard to get the Police bill down but incidents like Huddersfield wont help their case one bit...Some of them seem quite happy to want to meet there own fellow fans for a ruck so would the club really want them next to the oppositions..no of course they wouldn't...Obviousley they represent only a small minority of fans who want the singing section but a few bad apples always spoil the Barrell...Its the guys who took part in the experiment for all the right reasons who I feel sorry for because once again the mindless few spoil it for everyone else....
The incidents were a flash in the pan. Nothing more and I've heard of far worse happening on match days. It's an excuse for them to ditch it pure and simple.
Ahh just read as well no new season tickets will be sold in that area either so it appears they've drastically reduced the number of cat c season tickets available. Bravo.
Top post MrFrost, you're right!!
The club are using an isolated, outside of the stadium incident by a very small group of idiots to pin a well banded around stereotype onto a project dreamt up by a larger group of positive and pro-active people who are trying to create a bit of an atmosphere around the place!
I think the way the club are going about this will be a nail in the coffin of our hopes of having any continual atmosphere in the KMS, the club, the stewards, the 'policing budget' and a lot of the more pedantic season ticket holders just don't seem to be willing to accommodate it.
They should do a match-day experience survey amongst KMS visitors, if they could mark a simple 'atmosphere' 1-10 mark on their way out how do you think we'd score? 1, maybe 2 at a push?
Will you be attending the meeting to air your concerns?
Yeah, shall i keep an eye out for you? I've no idea what you look like, but i'll know which table has you, Glyn, Silent Majority and BigCol on it by you all rimming each other... :scarf:
No, i'll not be there, I haven't got an axe to grind either way. I actually feel sorry for the lads that have put time and effort into getting this initiative off the ground, it's a great initiative that has been spoiled by a small minority, I hope some common ground can be found as a result of the meeting. You seemed to have already come to your conclusions about how things will proceed before the meeting has taken place, which in all fairness is not being helpful, take your thoughts and ideas to the meeting, have some dialogue first before you have your rant, you never know the club might just be receptive to your ideas and opinions.
I get the feeling the club is calling a few bluffs with this meeting - how many 'unruly teens' are going to bother with it?
What you'll have is a bunch of people who have the time and the intellect in a room, all with a shared feeling and prejudgement of these gangs of lads, all coming to a very civilised and less 'intimidating solution'.
Its almost like the old 'give them a drum and they'll sing' mentality. Wheras they forget that the answer is 'give them a sense of territory, something to sing about and they'll sing'.
Middle class manufacturing of atmosphere through meeting minutes will not provide an answer to a working class, visceral lads problem!
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Tokyo,
How come my name is brought into this? Or do you feel you can just insult people at will and with no justification?
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why can't everyone just sit in the south stand and sing and stop moaning that they need to be close to opposition fans?
if you want to sing, sing for christs sake.
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I don't get the obsession with being next to the away fans, if I'm honest...
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Welcome to football club supporting, lesson one:
Put down your petitions and polls, stand up and follow the lead:
It works like this:
Fans chant a bit of support for their team pre match, a few players names etc.
Away fans chant an insult a few mins in - e.g. "empty seats, everywhere"..."i wanna go home" etc.
Home fans respond - "Yorkshire, yorkshire" "Its nice to know your here etc."
Throw in a bit of regional banter, the odd funny chant about a fat fan or another social commentary, the odd game related chant etc. Etc.
They chant directed at you, you chant in response or vice versa.
Stick the singing fans as far away from the away fans and the noise has proven it doesnt travel and all you get it the odd in game 'come on you reds' and the pre match stuff. Cue criticism for terrible atmosphere, away fans leave having had none of the fun interaction they paid and travelled for!
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Tokyo,
How come my name is brought into this? Or do you feel you can just insult people at will and with no justification?
Sorry - to be fair you do a good job at being reasonably subjective... They just tend to fawn over everything you post on here too! More the rimmee than the rimmer ;)
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They should do a match-day experience survey amongst KMS visitors, if they could mark a simple 'atmosphere' 1-10 mark on their way out how do you think we'd score? 1, maybe 2 at a push?
Stick the singing fans as far away from the away fans and the noise has proven it doesnt travel and all you get it the odd in game 'come on you reds' and the pre match stuff. Cue criticism for terrible atmosphere, away fans leave having had none of the fun interaction they paid and travelled for!
Depends what you rate a good atmosphere on. 7000 plus may rate it higher than what you think. For me personally that unimaginative chanting doesn't do anything in terms of adding to the atmosphere for me.
Let's put it to the test. We'll reconvene on here after the match on Saturday and rate the atmosphere out of 10 and give the reasons for your rating.
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Tokyo,
How come my name is brought into this? Or do you feel you can just insult people at will and with no justification?
Sorry - to be fair you do a good job at being reasonably subjective... They just tend to fawn over everything you post on here too! More the rimmee than the rimmer ;)
I can assure you that I don't fawn over everything SM says, we've had plenty of disagreements, the difference being is we sort things out privately and in a civilised manner, I'm pretty sure that Glynn and Big Col could say the same.
You however come on shouting and balling and then keep a low profile when you've been proved wrong like the SC fiasco, now you've come out of exile and start to renew your digs at the VSC again, the problem is that this singing section is an independent initiative and it's been well received from fans across all sections, it doesn't stop you having a sly dig though does it?
Like I said earlier, take your issues along to the meeting and see what develops, I really hope that a singing section can be accommodated, and if it comes about through the efforts of the lads that instigated it and the meeting attendee's, i'll be pleased for you, lashing out at people that are only making comments on this and not even taking one side or the other is hardly a sensible approach is it?
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Yeah sorry I forgot, you can't support your team properly unless you're stood next to the away fans. :silly:
Do you realise how patronising that sounds?
Besides, who gives a f**k if the away fans have enjoyed themselves... I'm not there for their enjoyment am I?
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Tokyos Boot.
I'm glad we've got you acting as a sort of juvenile conduit, translating the views of social media stalwarts into ideas that society as a whole can digest.
If you want to sit with us that would be great. Presumably you'd prefer to chuck your seat at someone, but hopefully you can keep your "passion" in check for an hour or so.
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gColSutherland link=topic=245072.msg429423#msg429423 date=1395182471]
Tokyos Boot.
I'm glad we've got you acting as a sort of juvenile conduit, translating the views of social media stalwarts into ideas that society as a whole can digest.
If you want to sit with us that would be great. Presumably you'd prefer to chuck your seat at someone, but hopefully you can keep your "passion" in check for an hour or so.
[/quote]
Why thanks - i only appear on here when i feel that a portion of the rovers current demographic is misreprepresented by this forums ever judgemental and usually one sided course of action.
I wouldnt by any means associate myself with these so called louts you all do so well to look down upon but i see them as a culturally more significant fixture to my football club than any season ticket moaner, corporate sponsor or petition starter!
And as for reconvening on HERE, thats the issue - realistically this forum represents the views of i'd guess about 15% of the supporters... And its only the ones who agree with the other posters who can be arsed to stick around through all the mud slinging! So it generates a mutual back patters branch of judgemental decision makers who think they know the needs of all of our support!
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Talk me through the part where I looked down upon this nameless demographic.
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And as for reconvening on HERE, thats the issue - realistically this forum represents the views of i'd guess about 15% of the supporters... And its only the ones who agree with the other posters who can be arsed to stick around through all the mud slinging! So it generates a mutual back patters branch of judgemental decision makers who think they know the needs of all of our support!
That's a no then?
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realistically this forum represents the views of i'd guess about 15% of the supporters
And by the way, seeing as you keep bringing this up, there's a difference between 'representative' and a 'representation'.
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Talk me through the part where I looked down upon this nameless demographic.
I tend to agree with a lot of the stuff you say on here BigCol, and as much as MrFrost can waffle some shite on for a response sometimes, i think you and a lot of the regulars let yourselves down with the schoolyard bullying and a constant need to outwit. Does anyone ever just agree to disagree?
And id give it a shot DonnyBaz but id argue before its ever started that its final result wont be a fair representation because of the format, platform and accessibility of the research! Youd have to ask actual supporters leaving the ground to get a fair show!
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Whereas schoolyard insults are so much more mature, eh?
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Are you categorising Frosty as a lout then?
I think he's many things, but not a lout. My gripes with him are around his constant negativity about ticket sales. Year after year, the same shit. He's got lots of secret solutions apparently, but no time, other than the year after year he spends on here, to do anything about them.
(Loved your stuff about rimming. Really helped your argument)
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Are you categorising Frosty as a lout then?
I think he's many things, but not a lout. My gripes with him are around his constant negativity about ticket sales. Year after year, the same shit. He's got lots of secret solutions apparently, but no time, other than the year after year he spends on here, to do anything about them.
(Loved your stuff about rimming. Really helped your argument)
Many things? Such as?
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gColSutherland link=topic=245072.msg429423#msg429423 date=1395182471]
Tokyos Boot.
I'm glad we've got you acting as a sort of juvenile conduit, translating the views of social media stalwarts into ideas that society as a whole can digest.
If you want to sit with us that would be great. Presumably you'd prefer to chuck your seat at someone, but hopefully you can keep your "passion" in check for an hour or so.
Why thanks - i only appear on here when i feel that a portion of the rovers current demographic is misreprepresented by this forums ever judgemental and usually one sided course of action.
I wouldnt by any means associate myself with these so called louts you all do so well to look down upon but i see them as a culturally more significant fixture to my football club than any season ticket moaner, corporate sponsor or petition starter!
And as for reconvening on HERE, thats the issue - realistically this forum represents the views of i'd guess about 15% of the supporters... And its only the ones who agree with the other posters who can be arsed to stick around through all the mud slinging! So it generates a mutual back patters branch of judgemental decision makers who think they know the needs of all of our support!
[/quote]
I think you need to read the whole thread again, I can't really see much opposition to a singing section. What I can see is plenty of hot air blown by the usual people and directed in the wrong direction, you keep mentioning the judgmental decision makers on here, again I fail to see where you are coming from, this was a independent supporters led initiative in which you have decided to use in an attempt to have a dig at the VSC and in particular SM, who as far as I can see has remained impartial to the idea in the context of this thread. So who's the one being judgmental?
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Are you categorising Frosty as a lout then?
I think he's many things, but not a lout. My gripes with him are around his constant negativity about ticket sales. Year after year, the same shit. He's got lots of secret solutions apparently, but no time, other than the year after year he spends on here, to do anything about them.
(Loved your stuff about rimming. Really helped your argument)
Many things? Such as?
I haven't got time to tell you.
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How a group of 15 year old lads clowns,running round town and circling the Keepmoat causing the club an increase in costs are culturally more significant than season ticket holders who support their club year in and out with cold hard cash is quite simply beyond me Tokyo.....
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Well, financially they are probably a much better asset. Granted, that money isn't given 'pre-budget', but we're talking about a potential market of die-hards who (if nurtured) may give another 50, 60 years of their money to the club...
Also, if they don't have season tickets but still go to most games, they probably contribute more through bad maths!!!
Plus, how many of these 15 year olds do you see kitted out with Rovers shirts, tracksuits, training tops etc.?
That beats a lot of the new fangled fine-weather season ticket holders who we unearthed with our rebrand once we'd moved to our new sanitary stadium, and a much more watch-able position in the league.
I think we're talking about a social problem more than anything, its a classic case of grumpy old folks misunderstanding a generation and feeling intimidated by it!
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Plus, i said culturally, not financially. (even though i believe they are that too)...
We won't appeal to the next culture of youngsters unless we give them something worth paying to go do every saturday - and the fact of the matter is, the football alone isn't what gets teens going to these matches!
Its the 'banter'... the chance to do something with all their mates, to have a laugh, to take the piss, to act a bit naughty and to get a buzz off of feeling a part of an army of supporters, beating their chest and holding the mast high!
If we aren't going to provide that at the KMS then we will continue to see them fall by the wayside and support clubs like Leeds and Wendies who have demonstrated a bit more leniancy when it comes to football lads culture!
Its no coincidence our away following is pound for pound miles more popular than our home, it is because it allows people a taste of what its like to be allowed to support your club loud and proud without being scoffed at or treat like an animal.
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I'm 18, none of my mates support Rovers, yet I still attend pretty much every game. I'm perfectly capable of enjoying my self, singing songs, without behaving like a dick, threatening away fans, throwing flares and wearing a tracksuit.
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Its no coincidence our away following is pound for pound miles more popular than our home, it is because it allows people a taste of what its like to be allowed to support your club loud and proud without being scoffed at or treat like an animal.
Erm, what does our "pound for pound" away following look like? You can only judge popularity by numbers. Our away following is about 8 or 9 times less, on average, than our home attendances.
Well, financially they are probably a much better asset. Granted, that money isn't given 'pre-budget', but we're talking about a potential market of die-hards who (if nurtured) may give another 50, 60 years of their money to the club...
Also, if they don't have season tickets but still go to most games, they probably contribute more through bad maths!!!
Using a massive assumption to try and back up an argument doesn't make the argument any stronger I'm afraid.
Plus, how many of these 15 year olds do you see kitted out with Rovers shirts, tracksuits, training tops etc.?
I don't know, how many? Do you have any figures or percentages, again, to back up your argument?
That beats a lot of the new fangled fine-weather season ticket holders who we unearthed with our rebrand once we'd moved to our new sanitary stadium, and a much more watch-able position in the league.
We "unearthed" a couple of thousand season ticket holders in the move. Should we send them back to whence they came?
I think we're talking about a social problem more than anything, its a classic case of grumpy old folks misunderstanding a generation and feeling intimidated by it!
Or, it's a case of the younger generation thinking the older generation are just being grump for the sake of it?
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Its the 'banter'... the chance to do something with all their mates, to have a laugh, to take the piss, to act a bit naughty and to get a buzz off of feeling a part of an army of supporters, beating their chest and holding the mast high!
I used to stand in the middle of the Pop Stand and do this. I never felt the need to go stand down the Rosso end. Why does the Singing Section have to go in the NW corner?
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I'm 18, none of my mates support Rovers, yet I still attend pretty much every game. I'm perfectly capable of enjoying my self, singing songs, without behaving like a dick, threatening away fans, throwing flares and wearing a tracksuit.
Precisely. I don't understand what TB seems to have against season ticket holders either... I mean does he expect us to budget with magic beans during the summer? he's making it seem as though everyone who has one is part of some mystical "prawn sandwich army" or whatever he likes to call them.
I'm not against a singing section but f**k me do you make it hard to take your point of view on board when you go around being a patronising Kitson and telling people how you think they should be a "proper" supporter.
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Look, i've got nothing against season ticket holders, us gaining a mass of season ticket holders, and fans that don't share the joys of standing up and singing - its all horses for courses and subject to situation... we're all a different beast, we all pay our money, and are all as valid.
I've said before, and i'll say it again, if the lads in this singing section aren't actually committing any crimes, to sanction the whole idea because of 'intimidating' behaviour is pathetic... we are by no means a bad club for trouble, and if we are employing stewards to deal with trouble what is the gripe with them having to do their jobs for once?
My pop is at the people who seem to think theres 'no place' for that sort of supporter because of their cultural and behavioural differences. They pay their money, they should be considered and provided for too!
We'll see how much regard the club holds these supporters in at this meeting tonight won't we.
And the simple answer Col is - because the sound doesn't travel like it did from the middle of the Pop to the away end!
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For those who don't want it in the North West. Can you tell me an alternative place for it please?
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Ah the famous Belle Vue acoustics.
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We'll see how much regard the club holds these supporters in at this meeting tonight won't we
Hasn't the meeting been put back to tomorrow?
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Plus, i said culturally, not financially. (even though i believe they are that too)...
We won't appeal to the next culture of youngsters unless we give them something worth paying to go do every saturday - and the fact of the matter is, the football alone isn't what gets teens going to these matches!
Its the 'banter'... the chance to do something with all their mates, to have a laugh, to take the piss, to act a bit naughty and to get a buzz off of feeling a part of an army of supporters, beating their chest and holding the mast high!
If we aren't going to provide that at the KMS then we will continue to see them fall by the wayside and support clubs like Leeds and Wendies who have demonstrated a bit more leniancy when it comes to football lads culture!
Its no coincidence our away following is pound for pound miles more popular than our home, it is because it allows people a taste of what its like to be allowed to support your club loud and proud without being scoffed at or treat like an animal.
The Rovers must strive to accommodate all supporters.
Young families have their requirements, older supporters theirs. The youthful supporters are a vital ingredient because they are the ones who tend to generate the atmosphere. That is part of the match day entertainment and that has a value to the club. What the club can't be doing with is paying out for a larger police presence than they need to.
But I do think the club should endeavour to accommodate and encourage a singers section.
I just think it's in the wrong place, I always have.
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For those who don't want it in the North West. Can you tell me an alternative place for it please?
First few rows of the South Stand. Lots of room there.
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For those who don't want it in the North West. Can you tell me an alternative place for it please?
First few rows of the South Stand. Lots of room there.
But you can't act like a hero that far away from the away fans. :(
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Welcome to football club supporting, lesson one:
Put down your petitions and polls, stand up and follow the lead:
It works like this:
Fans chant a bit of support for their team pre match, a few players names etc.
Away fans chant an insult a few mins in - e.g. "empty seats, everywhere"..."i wanna go home" etc.
Home fans respond - "Yorkshire, yorkshire" "Its nice to know your here etc."
Throw in a bit of regional banter, the odd funny chant about a fat fan or another social commentary, the odd game related chant etc. Etc.
They chant directed at you, you chant in response or vice versa.
Stick the singing fans as far away from the away fans and the noise has proven it doesnt travel and all you get is the odd in game 'come on you reds' on corners and the pre match stuff. Cue criticism for terrible atmosphere, away fans leave having not heard any chants, and had none of the fun interaction they paid and travelled for!
I feel like we're going round in circles here. :headbang:
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For those who don't want it in the North West. Can you tell me an alternative place for it please?
First few rows of the South Stand. Lots of room there.
But you can't act like a hero that far away from the away fans. :(
Same reason as below. Anywhere else you could suggest for this singing section?
The club seem to manage having away fans in the mirror opposite corner of the stadium don't they?
For those who don't want it in the North West. Can you tell me an alternative place for it please?
First few rows of the South Stand. Lots of room there.
The STH's above them will constantly tell them to sit down though? Which is their right, of course! Extremely difficult to create an atmosphere sat down wouldn't you agree?
Any other places?
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What's odd is if I sit in the South Stand I can hear the away fans, even if there's not many of them.
Maybe we have our very own Fremantle Doctor or Mistral in Doncaster?
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For those who don't want it in the North West. Can you tell me an alternative place for it please?
Why not keep the singing section in the N/W corner & restrict the away fans by means of covering a section of seats with the black cloth they use in the away end corner? To therefore create a nuetral zone,fans could still have the banter but it would reduce the risk of objects,plastic bottles,coins been thrown in either direction.I am aware this would reduce income for the club for the games against Boro,Leeds & Wednesday but for Barnsley,Huddersfield,Leicester etc...we could give them 75% behind the goal(north stand)plus the section of the east we already give to clubs with the larger following.This may also reduce the need for extra policing inside the stadium,a row of stewards either side of the cloth?
Not an easy one for the club to try & keep everyone happy, season ticket holders,those who want to sing ,the next generation of fans & the police.
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For those who don't want it in the North West. Can you tell me an alternative place for it please?
Why not keep the singing section in the N/W corner & restrict the away fans by means of covering a section of seats with the black cloth they use in the away end corner? To therefore create a nuetral zone,fans could still have the banter but it would reduce the risk of objects,plastic bottles,coins been thrown in either direction.I am aware this would reduce income for the club for the games against Boro,Leeds & Wednesday but for Barnsley,Huddersfield,Leicester etc...we could give them 75% behind the goal(north stand)plus the section of the east we already give to clubs with the larger following.This may also reduce the need for extra policing inside the stadium,a row of stewards either side of the cloth?
Not an easy one for the club to try & keep everyone happy, season ticket holders,those who want to sing ,the next generation of fans & the police.
Great idea! I actually think that's the best way to do it.
I reckon that i workable. I wonder how many times this season away fans have actually sold 75% or more of the away end?
A lot of those in the singing section have come from the top of the south stand, so could possibly shift 2 or 3 more stewards over from the south stand, to the NW too. Pretty easy to spot the small minority of trouble makers and ban them/move them over time, which will then leave the ones who can behave themselves to create an atmosphere without the club sweating over a potential 'kick off' all the time.
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It's unfortunate that the North West corner happens to be the only corner of the stadium which isn't divided by the natural barrier of a gateway tunnel.
In a few respects the stadium has been designed the wrong way around. It would have been better if the boxes were at the back of the west, to avoid low sun and the west stand could have been made a bit bigger.
The tunnel entrances would have been better in both corners of the North stand to create a natural barrier on either side.
The south stand would have been better for home supporters without the tunnels to create larger corner sections and not divide the home support.
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How many off of here are going to the meeting?
Tomorrow 5:30 East Stand Restaurant - Just to remind those that are thinking of coming!
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a couple of good suggestions above. I doubt the club would choose to block off more away seats in the north west corner that they make available for a singing section however.
I think this whole situation is a storm in a tea-cup tbh, and I really don't understand where this thread of us losing fans all of a sudden is coming from? We've been at the keepmoat for 7 years now. Where did all the singers sits before? Why would they watch the Rovers for all these years at home, to then jack it all in because they can't sit (in big numbers) close to the away end?
I also echo the statement above about hearing the North stand from the south east corner; if away fans can make that much noise, in such small numbers sometimes, why can't the "singers" make the same noise from the South Stand?
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a couple of good suggestions above. I doubt the club would choose to block off more away seats in the north west corner that they make available for a singing section however.
I think this whole situation is a storm in a tea-cup tbh, and I really don't understand where this thread of us losing fans all of a sudden is coming from? We've been at the keepmoat for 7 years now. Where did all the singers sits before? Why would they watch the Rovers for all these years at home, to then jack it all in because they can't sit (in big numbers) close to the away end?
I also echo the statement above about hearing the North stand from the south east corner; if away fans can make that much noise, in such small numbers sometimes, why can't the "singers" make the same noise from the South Stand?
People stopping/contemplating not going is not just about this singing section, but everything before it. The atmosphere has been AWFUL for years and there comes a time when enough is enough for some. Some probably see this as a last chance.
As for your point about away fans not having trouble with creating noise from behind the goal - The simple answer is because it's an away crowd. They are all grouped together and naturally it's mainly the more vocal supporters, who travel away.
The south stand you are all split up into little pockets so it's difficult. Having it in the South Stand causes the most disruption to fellow home fans due to the amount of STH/regular's in that section who are set in their ways (not a dig, it's their right).
The North West looks to me like it causes the least disruption with moving people etc. the fact away fans are closer is secondary and a welcome bonus imo... Surely having 2 sets of fans close together (but not close enough to trade blows) is a good thing? Both will feed off each other which makes the atmosphere even better!
The keepmoat stadium to a lot i speak to, doesn't feel like home, so let's make the North West section a sort of 'away game experience' for home fans?
As i said earlier, the trouble makers are few and they'll soon either integrate with the rest and behave, or be f*cked off from singing section.
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Surely having 2 sets of fans close together (but not close enough to trade blows) is a good thing?
Just close enough to chuck things at each other?
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Surely having 2 sets of fans close together (but not close enough to trade blows) is a good thing?
Just close enough to chuck things at each other?
As i said at the end of that post "the trouble makers are few and they'll soon either integrate with the rest and behave, or be f*cked off from singing section."
I'm off to the meeting tomorrow and have a few suggestions for the club in how it can be policed better by the club/stewards and by the fans ourselves.
Just because one incident happened, doesn't mean it's going to be the norm, nor does it mean it should be squashed or moved because of it.
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Surely having 2 sets of fans close together (but not close enough to trade blows) is a good thing?
Just close enough to chuck things at each other?
Funny, I never saw the club or Police make such a big deal of things when our fans and Milwall fans were brawling in the corner a few years ago.
Or against Leeds in the cup this year when there were fights breaking out, coins being lobbed etc. Mind you, it wasn't a designated singing section then.
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Could a net not be installed that drops from the roof to the steps so sound can travel though and can be seen through but if something is thrown ie flare smoke bomb etc then it will stay on the side that it came from
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Surely having 2 sets of fans close together (but not close enough to trade blows) is a good thing?
Just close enough to chuck things at each other?
Funny, I never saw the club or Police make such a big deal of things when our fans and Milwall fans were brawling in the corner a few years ago.
"Fourteen Millwall supporters appeared at Doncaster Magistrates Court last Thursday following incidents which occurred at the Keepmoat Stadium on the opening day of the season. All had been charge with affray, with 13 men and one woman being identified from CCTV recordings taken by the stadium.
Six people received 80 hours community service each, were ordered to pay £50 in costs - and they each received a three-year football banning order. They are prevented from attending any football match during that time, and must surrender their passport for the time of all England away games.
Four were bailed for pre-sentence reports and will report to local courts in South London on 14th February.
Three men and one woman pleaded not guilty and their trial has been scheduled at Doncaster Magistrates Courty for 1st April.
PC Andy Baker said, “We have worked closely with our colleagues in the Metropolitan Police to bring to justice the people who caused disorder at the Millwall football match on the 11 August at the Keepmoat Stadium. Doncaster Police will not tolerate this type of behaviour and treat such incidents seriously.”
No, police didn't do anything did they Frosty? Your ignorance is without limits.
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Surely having 2 sets of fans close together (but not close enough to trade blows) is a good thing?
Just close enough to chuck things at each other?
Funny, I never saw the club or Police make such a big deal of things when our fans and Milwall fans were brawling in the corner a few years ago.
"Fourteen Millwall supporters appeared at Doncaster Magistrates Court last Thursday following incidents which occurred at the Keepmoat Stadium on the opening day of the season. All had been charge with affray, with 13 men and one woman being identified from CCTV recordings taken by the stadium.
Six people received 80 hours community service each, were ordered to pay £50 in costs - and they each received a three-year football banning order. They are prevented from attending any football match during that time, and must surrender their passport for the time of all England away games.
Four were bailed for pre-sentence reports and will report to local courts in South London on 14th February.
Three men and one woman pleaded not guilty and their trial has been scheduled at Doncaster Magistrates Courty for 1st April.
PC Andy Baker said, “We have worked closely with our colleagues in the Metropolitan Police to bring to justice the people who caused disorder at the Millwall football match on the 11 August at the Keepmoat Stadium. Doncaster Police will not tolerate this type of behaviour and treat such incidents seriously.”
No, police didn't do anything did they Frosty? Your ignorance is without limits.
You miss the point, as usual.
The police or club didn't insist that area of the stadium be unavailable for ticket purchases did they?
Do i really have to explain the obvious to you or are you just being deliberately pedantic?
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I haven't missed the point Frosty, because there is only one point, which your posts make over and over and over again, year after year after year, and it's always the same point.
The point is you have got nothing, nothing at all to contribute towards the club or this forum. You have been presented with the opportunity to enter, directly, into a dialogue with the representatives of an elite level football club, owned by individuals collectively worth close to £1 billion. They have offered you that opportunity. An opportunity where they give up their time so you can share your "ideas", ideas you've sat on for the last five years.
This opportunity has been arranged for you by individuals who give up their own time to try to move the club forward, to try and put actions into place, a task that brings with it little or no reward, but plenty of aggravation.
And what do you say in return?
"It's not my job. I haven't got time."
That will be your f**king epitaph.
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I haven't missed the point Frosty, because there is only one point, which your posts make over and over and over again, year after year after year, and it's always the same point.
The point is you have got nothing, nothing at all to contribute towards the club or this forum. You have been presented with the opportunity to enter, directly, into a dialogue with the representatives of an elite level football club, owned by individuals collectively worth close to £1 billion. They have offered you that opportunity. An opportunity where they give up their time so you can share your "ideas", ideas you've sat on for the last five years.
This opportunity has been arranged for you by individuals who give up their own time to try to move the club forward, to try and put actions into place, a task that brings with it little or no reward, but plenty of aggravation.
And what do you say in return?
"It's not my job. I haven't got time."
That will be your f***ing epitaph.
You have missed the point. And your ramblings prove it.
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Can I suggest that anyone who has issues with another member should take those issues elsewhere.
Any further posts on this thread that are simply attacking other members will be removed & if it carries on going the way that it is, the thread will be locked.
Play nicely or not at all.
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Can I suggest that anyone who has issues with another member should take those issues elsewhere.
Any further posts on this thread that are simply attacking other members will be removed & if it carries on going the way that it is, the thread will be locked.
Play nicely or not at all.
Perhaps they should take it 'outside'?
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Bump! Just to remind anyone who wants to attend.
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Surely having 2 sets of fans close together (but not close enough to trade blows) is a good thing?
Just close enough to chuck things at each other?
Funny, I never saw the club or Police make such a big deal of things when our fans and Milwall fans were brawling in the corner a few years ago.
"Fourteen Millwall supporters appeared at Doncaster Magistrates Court last Thursday following incidents which occurred at the Keepmoat Stadium on the opening day of the season. All had been charge with affray, with 13 men and one woman being identified from CCTV recordings taken by the stadium.
Six people received 80 hours community service each, were ordered to pay £50 in costs - and they each received a three-year football banning order. They are prevented from attending any football match during that time, and must surrender their passport for the time of all England away games.
Four were bailed for pre-sentence reports and will report to local courts in South London on 14th February.
Three men and one woman pleaded not guilty and their trial has been scheduled at Doncaster Magistrates Courty for 1st April.
PC Andy Baker said, “We have worked closely with our colleagues in the Metropolitan Police to bring to justice the people who caused disorder at the Millwall football match on the 11 August at the Keepmoat Stadium. Doncaster Police will not tolerate this type of behaviour and treat such incidents seriously.”
No, police didn't do anything did they Frosty? Your ignorance is without limits.
You miss the point, as usual.
The police or club didn't insist that area of the stadium be unavailable for ticket purchases did they?
Do i really have to explain the obvious to you or are you just being deliberately pedantic?
Hadn't we had bigger crowds before without any trouble though?
I'm sure that if we had kept some seats empty for that game without having had any previous confrontations you wouldn't have complained. ;)
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So what was the outcome?
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From what i've been told, not a great deal.
However Sheff Wednesday fans are freely being able to buy tickets in the home end, Rovers fans are being denied their usual seats in the West Stand.
Pathetic.
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- It's not open for the Sheff Weds game
- The club had 2 days to decide what to do after trouble (police) that's why the Watford scenario happened.
- Will look into allowing the regulars from that section who had purchase history, into the section for the remainder of the season.
- Will look into having memberships/some sort of I.D for the singing section so trouble makers can be more easily sorted (may stay away if their details are known). Depends whether the police would be happy with that.
- They'd prefer to make the south Stand/sections unreserved for a singing section.
It went around in circles tbh because the same stuff kept getting said by people. 14 people turned up for it, then you had Shaun, the SLO's, Stadium manager etc. in attendance too.
I personally don't think it'll work in the South Stand due South Stand STH's not wanting to move seats, and people not wanting to move from the west to the south. I don't think it'll end up being allowed back in the West North either.
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Did they mention about people being able to buy season tickets there next season, seeing as its where half the Cat C seats are?
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Any news from the meeting hope it went well 4 u :scarf:
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there is already a unreserved section in the south stand - you get tickets for it from the cash turnstiles. We've also been told previously that people who want to stand in those seats won't be told to sit down.
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Well obviously you will as it's down at the bottom. Shame it's not like Old Trafford where all 20,000 behind each goal stand up for 90 minutes.
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Having said that Palace seem to have developed an unreserved as they refer to it as an 'ultras section' behind the goal but in between the corner flag and the penalty area from the front row upwards. Possibly now the best idea if the club aren't going to allow fans near the away fans. Probably best to do it the west side of the south stand wouldn't want to upset the family image.
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there is already a unreserved section in the south stand - you get tickets for it from the cash turnstiles. We've also been told previously that people who want to stand in those seats won't be told to sit down.
Well seen as only the back 4 rows stand up. Its gonna be hard for someone to come along on row K and stand up is it?
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there is already a unreserved section in the south stand - you get tickets for it from the cash turnstiles. We've also been told previously that people who want to stand in those seats won't be told to sit down.
I had no idea!
That is a great initiative but they have to let people know about it.
How about a sign, by the entrance of every turnstile promoting it?
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I couldn't attend the meeting tonight, but my brother went and let me know all the gossip...
So the chief concern is in 'costings' now...
I'd be interested to know how our Policing and Stewarding costs stack up against the other teams in this league?
Also, what our 'matchday incidents' stats for trouble are in comparison too.
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I'm not long back in the house from the meeting.
The club admits that they acted hastily on closing WSG but felt there was little option at such short notice.
Discussions centred around the "youth" element that have been causing the problems and we're hopeful that a solution will be found to reopen that section after the Wednesday game and help to identify the ring leaders so they can get what they so richly deserve.
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I really don't understand how you can compare a club like us to one like Manchester United in terms of supporters...
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I'm not long back in the house from the meeting.
The club admits that they acted hastily on closing WSG but felt there was little option at such short notice.
Discussions centred around the "youth" element that have been causing the problems and we're hopeful that a solution will be found to reopen that section after the Wednesday game and help to identify the ring leaders so they can get what they so richly deserve.
I'm pleased that you seem to have opened dialogue, I'm sure there's some compromise in there somewhere, I reckon some of you older heads might have to self police the area to a certain extent. There has to be goodwill on both sides for this to work, I had visions of the meeting been hijacked by green street wannabee's that have already decided what the club are doing without having heard them
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So, meetings do work then?
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It has to be a two way thing between the club and the fans, the club can't be seen to condone a singing section if a few d**kheads want to use it as a platform for trouble
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I think this is one of those cases were less haste will have longer success..The club could rush something in place for the rest of the season to please the fans but if it goes wrong the costs to both club and fans will be high...In theory its a great idea so both the club and fans can now work together to come up with a system that can be implemented from next season that addresses the issues created and safeguards against them..That way its something that can be sustained and grow with a long term future...
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Re: Singing section
« Reply #328 on March 20, 2014, 11:26:22 PM by RedJ »
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I really don't understand how you can compare a club like us to one like Manchester United in terms of supporters...
Very true tbf. If only comes to mind.
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So, meetings do work then?
Nice attempt at a dig.
We shouldn't NEED meetings with the club to arrange a singing section, it SHOULD be fan lead but the actions of a few school kids and, IMO, the clubs overreaction have forced this situation on us.
So, meetings do work then?
Neil, not a dig, a fact.
But I would disagree with you with regard to meetings. Every time singing sections (mostly euphemism for standing sections) have been done without the clubs cooperation and understanding they have gone wrong. Clubs have a responsibility, and a legal requirement, to operate within the confines of their safety certificate which is managed by the local SAG. A complete disregard of this leads to all kinds of sanctions against the club and has been documented numerous times.
However where cooperation and participation has been evident then it's worked very well. The examples are numerous. Red Faction at Middlesborough were the whipping boys until they got around the table, same at Sunderland, Cardiff, Leicester, Derby etc etc. and I should know as I was involved.
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Neil, not a dig, a fact.
But I would disagree with you with regard to meetings. Every time singing sections (mostly euphemism for standing sections) have been done without the clubs cooperation and understanding they have gone wrong. Clubs have a responsibility, and a legal requirement, to operate within the confines of their safety certificate which is managed by the local SAG. A complete disregard of this leads to all kinds of sanctions against the club and has been documented numerous times.
However where cooperation and participation has been evident then it's worked very well. The examples are numerous. Red Faction at Middlesbrough were the whipping boys until they got around the table, same at Sunderland, Cardiff, Leicester, Derby etc etc. and I should know as I was involved.
Is it a fact because you say it is?
It shouldn't require meetings and concessions to organise an atmosphere, it should come naturally. Unfortunately some young, daft lads seem to have confused banter and singing with football violence. IMO the club have acted hastily in closing WSH and should have used the tools at their disposal to remove the undesirables, rather than dishing out "collective punishment". They haven't used those tools and now we have a a small degree of animosity between us and them however nothing than can't be resolved.
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I thought u would back sad rovers on this sm,you have stated numerous times just because of the minority all fans should not be tarred with the same brush
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Bpoolrover,
I am backing him. I have always supported football supporters of all types and my work over the last 12 years or so proves it. However there are always easy ways of going about this, ways that experience has taught us in the fans movement. It's that experience that Neil chooses to ignore. I applaud his efforts, at least he's done something about it, which puts him firmly in the same camp as me rather than the 99% of keyboard warriors whose comments I read on a regular basis.
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Can I ask what was the exact nature of the trouble in that corner that has caused all this?
What was the specific act of violence or behaviour that occured?
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It might not have been one particular incident Mr Frost. You may have to ask the Police about that one. Incidentally the Police are present at all SAG meetings so if they wished they could impose any sections they want to on the club with no recall.
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Well the only trouble I've witnessed or even heard about was the Barnsley fans lobbing flares and bottles at us. If that incident is one of the maybe it's the away blocks in that corner that should be closed? No?
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Good reply sm thank you
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Neil, the club need to be involved for all the reasons I've stated above. The club operate with the permission of the local Safety Advisory Group (SAG) who are responsible for the safety of the ground. The club have a representative on that committee, but so do the council, the Police and other authorities. If the Police make representation to the SAG about the club not observing the ground regulations, such as allowing fans to stand, or even SAG observers doing the same thing, then they will act. That leads to all kinds of restrictions, including the closure of certain sections of the ground.
I'm sure the club will have acted in advance to ensure that doesn't happen. Once the SAG start to do things like this then it's very, very hard to get them to retract. Most SAGs up and down the country are draconian in their outlook and don't give a flying fig about football supporters.
At Cardiff for instance they had all the electronic season tickets cancelled so ensuring fans couldn't get in at all. At Sunderland they roped off whole sections of seating and suspended their STs holders or anyone else from occupying those seats.
Atmosphere doesn't need committees or meetings, you're right, but getting the cooperation of the club to bend ground regulations does.
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Well the only trouble I've witnessed or even heard about was the Barnsley fans lobbing flares and bottles at us. If that incident is one of the maybe it's the away blocks in that corner that should be closed? No?
No. Under FL rules the club have to provide a minimum number of seats for away fans. Why restrict the away fan attendance therefore cutting total attendance numbers when it's simpler to move the home fans? It's not about apportioning blame, and in this instance we ( apparently) had trouble at three games, therefore the common denominator has to be the home fans does it not?
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Neil,
Well in my opinion the club were being naive in expecting that to happen without any reaction from the authorities. As I've said before, experience shows that these sections of ground always have these issues.
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Well the only trouble I've witnessed or even heard about was the Barnsley fans lobbing flares and bottles at us. If that incident is one of the maybe it's the away blocks in that corner that should be closed? No?
there was trouble at the hudds game, with fans from both sets of supporters in the north west corner leaving the match early at the same time, presumably to fight outside. There was initially maybe 10 or 20 left from each set at first, following be a steady stream a few minutes later, presumably those who wanted to go and watch? And this was against Huddersfield, not exactly our closest rivals.
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To be fair the trouble prob would have happened if they were in the south stand,my opinion is it should be given more time,many grounds have away fans next to vocal home fans with very little trouble
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Neil,
Whats done for this season is done,for me its put the issue into quarantine to keep it alive..I can understand why they have done it, the club have to protect themselves and whilst us mortal fans think its a bit OTT the fact remains it is what it is.....You have worked hard to get it this far and the opportunity is there to have a proper system in place from day 1 of next season..thats what people need to concentrate on now..The hard part is done and that's to get everybody to accept that the idea CAN be implemented...Now its a case of the fans and club working together on a set of proposals that both works for the club and the fans and by the sounds that's more than possible...Keep going and hopefully your efforts will be rewarded....
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I'm not long back in the house from the meeting.
The club admits that they acted hastily on closing WSG but felt there was little option at such short notice.
Discussions centred around the "youth" element that have been causing the problems and we're hopeful that a solution will be found to reopen that section after the Wednesday game and help to identify the ring leaders so they can get what they so richly deserve.
I'm pleased that you seem to have opened dialogue, I'm sure there's some compromise in there somewhere, I reckon some of you older heads might have to self police the area to a certain extent. There has to be goodwill on both sides for this to work, I had visions of the meeting been hijacked by green street wannabee's that have already decided what the club are doing without having heard them
We had dialogue with the club from day 1 Filo, they were supportive but (rightly, IMO) didn't want to be too "hands on" with the promotion of a singing section.
Self policing was a big theme of the meeting but obviously the club don't want to see any sort of vigilantism!
The biggest problem is identifying the troublesome element. CCTV only goes so far, without names it's difficult for the club to act however GB confirmed they DO monitor Facebook / Twitter so I'm sure after that PATHETIC thread on the FB group the other night they'll be well aware who's who. We're now waiting for the club to confirm, via the SLOs, that they'll reopen WSH for ticket sales providing people provide ID at the point of sale. Not ideal but if it means the club can positively ID these little Kitsons and ban them I'm all for it.
Nothing is ever easy, is it?
That facebook thread lol!
I see one of the self proclaimed DDR hardmen has his Mummy sticking up for him, how embarrassing!
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Awful atmosphere again today and there was still trouble after the game. No wonder 17-22 year olds would rather support leeds or wednesday. Clubs a joke.
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No wonder 17-22 year olds would rather support leeds or wednesday. Clubs a joke.
You cannot be serious. How the hell is the club a joke? Wednesday fans are renowned for being one of the noisiest fans in the league, How much did you here from them in the 2nd half? They had a half hearted chant when Johnstone saved that shot but that was it.
And why was that. They knew they were second best on the pitch. From our perspective, all I saw were people absorbed in the match. That's good enough for me. Seems you're looking for something else.
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Awful atmosphere again today and there was still trouble after the game. No wonder 17-22 year olds would rather support leeds or wednesday. Clubs a joke.
Youre probably right, clubs a joke. I think you should go and support Leeds or Wednesday, or Blades or Scunny. I'll follow, promise.
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Heard more from the south stand today than i did from the singing section and i sit in the west stand but then its basic physics. Sound is an energy and dissipates over distance if the wave length increases. you are better in the south stand. I will post diagrams tomorrow to explain.
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As soon as fans try to create any sort of atmosphere ie drum, band, singing section the club squashes it. Thats why the club is a joke and thats why 17-22 year olds will continue to choose leeds/wednesday over us. Its not just wednesday, we get out sung every week. We was 1-0 up against one of out biggest rivals and the home end was like a morgue.
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Awful atmosphere again today and there was still trouble after the game. No wonder 17-22 year olds would rather support leeds or wednesday. Clubs a joke.
Nonsense Kieron absolute nonsense. If you thought those Wendy fans were noisy then it was all in your imagination.
Consolidate the ''singing section'' idea and it will improve but if you can't wait then run aqway like all those brave 17-22 year olds. I hope you are more grown up than that.
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We've won again cue the moaners re.atmosphere, food and drink prices etc etc.
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As soon as fans try to create any sort of atmosphere ie drum, band, singing section the club squashes it. Thats why the club is a joke and thats why 17-22 year olds will continue to choose leeds/wednesday over us. Its not just wednesday, we get out sung every week. We was 1-0 up against one of out biggest rivals and the home end was like a morgue.
Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm not) it was the club, and Shaun Lockwood in particular, who introduced the band into the South Stand. So now you claim the club squashes it? How come?
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Because the truth is an inconvenience in an otherwise great story?
The Wendies were loud - until our goal went in, then they suddenly felt far less 'massive' and became very meek.
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They've been meek at our place since 2008 by all accounts ;)
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Consolidate what singing section? They was a lot louder than us. What happened to the band? Im not going to go support any other team its just frustrating when the atmosphere is so poor and any attempt to improve it is ruined by the club. If the singing section created the trouble against Huddersfield and barnsley what was the reason for all the trouble today after the game?
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Away fans are almost always better than home support though most places you go to be fair, especially when they bring that kind of number.
I do agree that it needs sorting though.
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We've won again cue the moaners re.atmosphere, food and drink prices etc etc.
On the pitch, i couldnt have asked for anything more in the past two seasons. :thumbsup:
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If the singing section created the trouble against Huddersfield and barnsley what was the reason for all the trouble today after the game?
:facepalm:
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Well the only trouble I've witnessed or even heard about was the Barnsley fans lobbing flares and bottles at us. If that incident is one of the maybe it's the away blocks in that corner that should be closed? No?
there was trouble at the hudds game, with fans from both sets of supporters in the north west corner leaving the match early at the same time, presumably to fight outside. There was initially maybe 10 or 20 left from each set at first, following be a steady stream a few minutes later, presumably those who wanted to go and watch? And this was against Huddersfield, not exactly our closest rivals.
I walked right into the middle of that having left slightly early to catch my train. It was nothing exciting and considering there were 50 or so Hudds and 20+ Rovers, there were less than half a dozen coppers so if they'd been determined to fight then they'd have got on with it. Lot's of posturing, nothing more.
There were problems yesterday with people fighting on the grass wasteland next to the Premier Inn though.
Personally I think the club have over-reacted as local derbies are always going to bring out the hard of thinking. I do think however that putting a "singing section" right next to the away fans was never going to sit well with the police and it was only a matter of time. Maybe those energies should now be concentrated on the south stand now? There's plenty of clubs out there who don't need to be right next to the away end to generate an atmosphere and if you keep banging on for a few seasons people will migrate away who dont want to be a part of it and those that do will migrate in. It won't happen overnight though...
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After Yesterdays events, I think the club should review their ticketing policy regarding away fans easily obtaining tickets for the home end. If the club are going to make knee jerk decisions over the singing section in the west stand to try and curb any potential trouble, the least they could do is get their house in order and stop making it easy for away fans buying tickets to the home end at our ticket office, they've already said this week that they monitor social media and forums and there were plenty of warnings that this was happening all week, yet they did nothing about it!
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Agree with that filo
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After Yesterdays events, I think the club should review their ticketing policy regarding away fans easily obtaining tickets for the home end. If the club are going to make knee jerk decisions over the singing section in the west stand to try and curb any potential trouble, the least they could do is get their house in order and stop making it easy for away fans buying tickets to the home end at our ticket office, they've already said this week that they monitor social media and forums and there were plenty of warnings that this was happening all week, yet they did nothing about it!
What can they do to stop it though?
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If you buy a ticket for a home game against leeds/weds then you have to buy one for a following home game
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If the 15 or so young kids,aged about 14 to 17 who were sat near us in sw corner,thought they were creating a good atmosphere by swearing for 90 minutes then they were wrong.
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If the 15 or so young kids,aged about 14 to 17 who were sat near us in sw corner,thought they were creating a good atmosphere by swearing for 90 minutes then they were wrong.
Strange sat right in the middle of SW and didn't hear them. Mind I was listening out for sounds coming from the hordes in the away end...........didn't hear them after 30 minutes either ;)
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I sit level with the 18 yard line at the south end west stand and haven't once heard the singing section. And talk of poor acoustics at the Keepmoat is just total bollox. I hear home and away support singing every match from behind each goal.
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If the 15 or so young kids,aged about 14 to 17 who were sat near us in sw corner,thought they were creating a good atmosphere by swearing for 90 minutes then they were wrong.
Weren't they all too busy sprinting down to the other end of the South Stand every 5 mins?
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The trouble that happened yesterday was mainly due to both sets of fans been let out at the same time, going the same way..When we are away in local games they keep us in for 15 minutes at the end to let the crowd disperse...Some just posture for effect like the youths who waited till the Wednesday boys who were thrown out were halfway down the stand before jumping out there seat and going after them knowing full well they wouldn't get near them...Although one or two seemed to be getting stick from our own fans when they skulked off back to their seats...As for the trouble in the wasteland whilst im not saying our fans are blameless,they wendy lads were all bladdered and looking for it.....
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The trouble that happened yesterday was mainly due to both sets of fans been let out at the same time, going the same way..When we are away in local games they keep us in for 15 minutes at the end to let the crowd disperse...Some just posture for effect like the youths who waited till the Wednesday boys who were thrown out were halfway down the stand before jumping out there seat and going after them knowing full well they wouldn't get near them...Although one or two seemed to be getting stick from our own fans when they skulked off back to their seats...As for the trouble in the wasteland whilst im not saying our fans are blameless,they wendy lads were all bladdered and looking for it.....
I've not known our fans being kept behind after a game for a very long time.
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We were at Brentford and im sure we were at Hillsborough...but it would make sence on days like Saturday...
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We were at Brentford and im sure we were at Hillsborough...but it would make sence on days like Saturday...
Wasn't Brentford more of a case of us staying behind out of choice? I left straight away at Hilsborough because I needed to be back quickly.
I'm sure I read somewhere keeping fans back after a game had been stopped some time ago.
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We were at Brentford and im sure we were at Hillsborough...but it would make sence on days like Saturday...
We definitely weren't held back at Hillsborough.
I can't recall us being kept back for a long time, in fact one of the last times I can recall was when we were held back at Nuneaton in the Conference. If I remember rightly it was to do with intelligence that a bus load of Donny Whites was in the area looking for trouble?
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We were at Brentford and im sure we were at Hillsborough...but it would make sence on days like Saturday...
Wasn't Brentford more of a case of us staying behind out of choice? I left straight away at Hilsborough because I needed to be back quickly.
I'm sure I read somewhere keeping fans back after a game had been stopped some time ago.
We were kept back for a good fifteen minutes whilst the Police cleared the area at Brentford (we were near the turnstiles as we also thought a quick getaway was in order to catch the train home), although some fans wouldn't have noticed as the alleyway at Brentford acted as a bottleneck meaning they had to stay in the stand. I'm surprised we don't keep away fans in for five minutes, especially with a lot of fans on foot walking the same way back to town or to the buses.
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If that was the case at Brentford the police didn't do a very good job of clearing the area whilst we were held back - I was knocked to the floor by a Rovers fan who had been 'attacked' by a Brentford fan on leaving!
I can't see any point in keeping away fans back for 5 minutes at the Keepmoat, the area doesn't clear anywhere near quickly enough to let the home fans move on, and given that if you are on foot, you are some way from the station and potentialy car parking spots, there will be potential for flash points way after the game has finished. I hung back on Saturday for one reason or another and it was still kicking off outside, 5 minutes would have made no difference.
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Got kept back against hull city in league 1
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If that was the case at Brentford the police didn't do a very good job of clearing the area whilst we were held back - I was knocked to the floor by a Rovers fan who had been 'attacked' by a Brentford fan on leaving!
I can't see any point in keeping away fans back for 5 minutes at the Keepmoat, the area doesn't clear anywhere near quickly enough to let the home fans move on, and given that if you are on foot, you are some way from the station and potentialy car parking spots, there will be potential for flash points way after the game has finished. I hung back on Saturday for one reason or another and it was still kicking off outside, 5 minutes would have made no difference.
15 minutes would have been better on saturday. And the fights that occurred outside proved it would have been justifiable. The police weren't on form at all on Saturday. Leading the mob from the train station right around the south and east stands, instead of taking them through the car park straight to the North Stand - what was all that about? I think they were lost...
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We were not held back at Brentford. I left 5 minutes after the final whistle to get train and had no problems. Hull City was the last time we were held back and that was for 45 minutes. :rtid:
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We were not held back at Brentford. I left 5 minutes after the final whistle to get train and had no problems. Hull City was the last time we were held back and that was for 45 minutes. :rtid:
Strange that, I could have sworn that because the gates were shut and the Brentford stewards were barring the way we were kept back for a good 10-15mins after the game, but then again I don't tend to leave games early home or away.
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You certainly couldn't leave straight away at Brentford. One of the people I was with tried leaving a couple of minutes after full time and he ended up back on the terrace with me a minute or so later because the way out was barred.
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Brighton always want to "one-up" us, we close a block of seating, they ban people for singing:
http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?298281-The-Judge
:facepalm:
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You certainly couldn't leave straight away at Brentford. One of the people I was with tried leaving a couple of minutes after full time and he ended up back on the terrace with me a minute or so later because the way out was barred.
So were our supporters kept back or not seems some were kept back and some weren't ?
Puzzled of Thorne.
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Brighton always want to "one-up" us, we close a block of seating, they ban people for singing:
http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?298281-The-Judge
:facepalm:
Seems like it was one individual and it is Brighton,.......am I allowed to say that Jenny ?
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I was on the lower tier terrace. I was kept back. I wasn't on my own. There appeared to be several hundred others waiting for a gate to be opened.
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No idea if we were kept back at Brentford, I'd have stopped all night
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I was on the lower tier terrace. I was kept back. I wasn't on my own. There appeared to be several hundred others waiting for a gate to be opened.
So we were kept back then !
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I was on the lower tier terrace. I was kept back. I wasn't on my own. There appeared to be several hundred others waiting for a gate to be opened.
So we were kept back then !
We were certainly kept back. We tried to leave after the whistle and initial celebrations and got to the gate which was closed and the Police barring our way. We were kept long enough for the guy behind me to decide he needed to relieve himself in the queue!
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I don't think we were held back intentionally we stayed back to celebrate a good 10 minutes but had a train to catch.
as we got round the corner heading out towards the terracing the stewards were fighting to shut the gates all while traffic cones, deodorant cans and bottles were being thrown over. So had anyone gone earlier they probably would have got out
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Jesus, I wonder if anyone did leave the game early.
I'd be beyond gutted if I'd missed that.
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Jesus, I wonder if anyone did leave the game early.
I'd be beyond gutted if I'd missed that.
Obviously somebody did........maybe to catch a train ;) ;) pmsl