Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Donnyjim on April 26, 2014, 07:02:11 pm
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Players, managers, supporters? We are simply not good enough to compete at this level. If we stay up, get your house on us going down next season.
Men against boys second half, I'm afraid.
Without some major investment this is where we are...I can handle it, can you?
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We are good enough as a club and as a squad. We did it last time for 3-4 seasons but we had a good manager
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Are we taking bets on who is the first to mention the told you so about the takeover?! :chair:
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I can handle the truth but not the level of pretension in your post
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I can handle the truth but not the level of pretension in your post
Head in the sand pal?
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I'll say it.
Watch Weeds fly next year with their new investor. Of course, we don't do things like that
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Unfortunately I think you will be right !
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The truth is that we are a pub team having a laugh. We have been punching beyond our weight for over 5 years. We have been in the second tier for longer than ever before, and before I can remember supporting Donny.
Personally I have been in dreamland for the last 6 or 7 years. I have only been to wembley and Cardiff to sport my home town team. I could never have imagined ex international managers against us. Or playing at St James's Park ( Newcastle) not Exeter.
I'll be thoroughly disappointed if we go down this year. But it's been fab along the way recently.
Unfortunately we are going to stay the same until we have some more local support. We cannot survive in the higher tiers unless we have more local support.
Don't have a go at the management or the team. They are doing the best they can. Just come along and cheer them on. We are Donny, not Chelski et al.
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Ps I am now at Berwick and A bottle of wine down, and just getting realistic after my annoyance of losing 3-1 after being ahead at half time.
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Hit the nail on the head there SS. The lack of support from the local community is nothing short of disgraceful and is the one and only reason why we can't stabilise in the Championship. We are just not on a level playing field because of it. If you look at Burnley - much smaller population than Donny yet nearly everyone who likes football in Burnley supports their local team and look where its got them. (Granted they do have an excellent manager!! but the local support goes a very long way to creating the success they are enjoying.)
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Hit the nail on the head there SS. The lack of support from the local community is nothing short of disgraceful and is the one and only reason why we can't stabilise in the Championship. We are just not on a level playing field because of it. If you look at Burnley - much smaller population than Donny yet nearly everyone who likes football in Burnley supports their local team and look where its got them. (Granted they do have an excellent manager!! but the local support goes a very long way to creating the success they are enjoying.)
Agree with all of this. It's a shame because the atmosphere was good today.
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The truth is that we are a pub team having a laugh. We have been punching beyond our weight for over 5 years. We have been in the second tier for longer than ever before, and before I can remember supporting Donny.
Personally I have been in dreamland for the last 6 or 7 years. I have only been to wembley and Cardiff to sport my home town team. I could never have imagined ex international managers against us. Or playing at St James's Park ( Newcastle) not Exeter.
I'll be thoroughly disappointed if we go down this year. But it's been fab along the way recently.
Unfortunately we are going to stay the same until we have some more local support. We cannot survive in the higher tiers unless we have more local support.
Don't have a go at the management or the team. They are doing the best they can. Just come along and cheer them on. We are Donny, not Chelski et al.
This really annoys me. We are a yoyo club between League 1 and the Championship. That is where we are at now. Forget about the Conference days, we arent that club anymore. We are a well established top end League one/bottom end Championship club. We aren't punching above our weight anymore. This is our level ffs
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Hit the nail on the head there SS. The lack of support from the local community is nothing short of disgraceful and is the one and only reason why we can't stabilise in the Championship. We are just not on a level playing field because of it. If you look at Burnley - much smaller population than Donny yet nearly everyone who likes football in Burnley supports their local team and look where its got them. (Granted they do have an excellent manager!! but the local support goes a very long way to creating the success they are enjoying.)
Burnley also have a history of being a top flight club, FA Cup and League winners. All a long time ago, but it MATTERS. It engenders a sense of home town pride in the club.
Don;t blame our current owners for us not having that. Blame the ones who owned us in the 1880s, 1900s, and 1950s.
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I agree with your points BST but even so a town the size of Donny should still have a higher average attendance which in my opinion would help tremendously to give us an extended stay in the Championship.
RJ - I believe that we are still punching above our weight being in the Championship and will be until we generate more income from local support.
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Bessie.
We've been shite for 50-odd of the last 60 years. We lost several generations of potential fans in that time. We've been excellent (by our historical standards) for the last 6-8 years, but (just our luck) that has co-incided with the worst recession in more than a century. In normal times, we might have expected to have average home crowds above 10k while we have been in this division (even at the lower end), and to ratchet a good few of them away for life. But folk have been tightening their belts over the last 6-8 years and it's not quite worked out like that.
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Again I agree with your point BST, however the size of the population of Donny should still be able to generate an average home crowd of 10k +.
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Again I agree with your point BST, however the size of the population of Donny should still be able to generate an average home crowd of 10k +.
...not when the Doncaster Metropolitan Borough has some of the highest levels of unemployment, and highest levels of low paid workers in the entire EEC -- then throw in much of our shockingly poor playing record as a club in the 70s, 80, 90s, and in the Conference years. We had a great D3 squad back in 86/87, which was just outside of the play-offs, and we could hardly pull in 2,000 to watch the likes of the mercurial Tommy Gaynor.
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Now he was a player Alonzo!!
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And Terry Curran too. He was another one. No brains. But oodles of talent, excitement - and frustration!
And very few people watched him either.
BobG
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Apathy - that's the main problem. I started going to Rovers as a six year old in 1973/74 season with my dad and the gates were good if we managed 3000. Was like that for a long long time.
So, gates now are poor but there's always been that apathy.
Need to instill some your town, your club pride in the borough.
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Don't forget Carl Swan.
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Again I agree with your point BST, however the size of the population of Donny should still be able to generate an average home crowd of 10k +.
...not when the Doncaster Metropolitan Borough has some of the highest levels of unemployment, and highest levels of low paid workers in the entire EEC -- then throw in much of our shockingly poor playing record as a club in the 70s, 80, 90s, and in the Conference years. We had a great D3 squad back in 86/87, which was just outside of the play-offs, and we could hardly pull in 2,000 to watch the likes of the mercurial Tommy Gaynor.
This spot on. The only time we had average gates of 15k plus was after the Second World War. I've never bought that last generation shite. In 1985 our average gate was at its highest for years 4500. Look at it now?
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Alonzo
Amen cocker.
Folk don't seem to realise that in a place with an economic situation like Donny, you are not going to get sudden and sustained increases in the fanbase without either an exceptional or a prolonged increase in on-field success.
Reading makes a good case study. For most of their history, they've been about as good as us. The town's about as big as Donny. We were both in the 3rd/4th Division for most of the 20s-80s. Since the 80s, our paths diverged. That followed the divergence in our towns' economic situations - we got f**ked over in the 1980s revolution; they profited from being a satellite town for them as couldn't afford to live in London.
Reading went from strength to strength and every time they improved on the pitch, they were able to ratchet more fans into their hard core support (although, that said, the turn-out today from they was f**king woeful given the stakes).
That is why Reading can afford Pogrebnyak, Gunter, Le Fondre, Hal Kanu, Gorkss, Bridge, Guthrie et al and we make do with Paul Quinn, The Artist Formerly Known As Billy Sharp, an alcoholic full back and a centre back who was last playing in a moderate side in the Finnish first division.
Football strength is a product of economics and history. We have been dealt a shite hand on both. The fact that we have been competitive at this level should be a source of pride. If (IF!) we go down, we need to take a look round ourselves and realise that we are still doing better than our historic and economic hand should give us cause to expect.
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Not forgetting, in those days if you wanted to watch a game of football, you had to go to a game, not sit in your chair and press a button.
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I wish I had written that Billy. Spot on.
Another facet of the M4 miracle is the prices that clubs alongside it can charge. They make us look like cheap skates. Even bloody Swindon charge more than we do. I must check up on what TLO Woking and Aldershot and Farnborough charge too. They're in pretty much the same catchment area.
It makes a difference. A real difference.
BobG
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Once again I agree with your synopsis BST but I still maintain that there are enough working people in Donny with adequate disposable income to be able to establish a steady 10k support the local team. My point is that not enough people seem bothered to support. Now there are many reasons why that might be such as poor marketing, poor match day experience whatever but I believe the main problem is sheer apathy.
By the way, dont forget that Madjeski getting on board at Reading made a massive difference to them also. And once you get in the Premiership then you can afford the players you mentioned. Oh for Terry to say "There you go Gavin there's 50 million go and get us a team to try and get us into the Prem"
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Agree BST. I think we can handle the truth and are comfortable with it. I think over the season we could argue that the personnel we've had at the club should have been good enough to keep us up but, football isn't like that. It takes much more to sustain a 'team' and performance level that brings a consistency you need. You can't say there are many in this league that find that consistency.
For Donkeys years we've heard the same old about a town the size of Donny. We've done it to death. I can live with the truth. The home support today was very good, they couldn't gave asked for better backing by recent standards.
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The high unemployment in the area doesn't seem to deter the thousands that go to Elland road once a fortnight. If we want bigger crowds we have to invest more in the team, and develop a decent Championship side, for starters.
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BB
1) Leeds is 5 times the size of Donny.
2) Leeds have a history of success to attract fans.
What is your point?
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My point is that it is surely cheaper for Doncaster people to watch Donny Rovers than it is to travel to Leeds once a fortnight to watch Leeds. Therefore it is not necessarily down to the towns high unemployment for the Rovers lack of support.
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I just want to add my two cents worth to the conversation. I remember sitting in a cold and wet BV in 1998 watching Rovers play FGR's with another 1,000 souls present. That is our nadir from which the club has had to rebuild its support base. It will take both time and a generation of supporters backing the club for there to be anything like the numbers people dream of that should be filling KM. Also remember in the Conference years where did Donny fans go? To L**ds, Wendies and the Blunts, they now take their kids to these clubs. Rovers is nothing without its fans, and the fanbase will grow through success on the field and the club reinforcing its identity with the people of Doncaster, for them in turn to have pride in their club. RTID.
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My point is that it is surely cheaper for Doncaster people to watch Donny Rovers than it is to travel to Leeds once a fortnight to watch Leeds. Therefore it is not necessarily down to the towns high unemployment for the Rovers lack of support.
This was true 30+ years ago when I used to watch Rovers for a quid. Compared to the costs of getting to and into Elland Road. Went a few times with mates from school. Would have thought that it still applies today as well, but attendances seem to be generally dropping outside the Premiership. Leeds are 7000 down this year apparently than they had last season.
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I Don't think we are the most welcoming to floating supporters,it's a sense of your not a real fan,you shouldn't be here
That's the most sensible thing I've seen on here for a long time. Unless you have sell-out crowds every week and a waiting list for season ticket holders, a club needs floating supporters to be able to survive and compete.
I would say I am a floating supporting. I had a season ticket for a couple of years, but stopped after the last full season of Sean O'Driscoll (I couldn't watch the football they were playing any more). I fell out of the habit of going quicker than I fell into the habit. I went twice last season, and none this season. The club (and the KMS before the club took control of the stadium) made some mistakes with pricing, ease of purchasing tickets, marketing. Some of these may have been rectified, but the fact is they are still on my mind, and now I'm quite happy spending my Saturday afternoons watching Jeff Stelling.
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I Don't think we are the most welcoming to floating supporters,it's a sense of your not a real fan,you shouldn't be here
That's the most sensible thing I've seen on here for a long time. Unless you have sell-out crowds every week and a waiting list for season ticket holders, a club needs floating supporters to be able to survive and compete.
I would say I am a floating supporting. I had a season ticket for a couple of years, but stopped after the last full season of Sean O'Driscoll (I couldn't watch the football they were playing any more). I fell out of the habit of going quicker than I fell into the habit. I went twice last season, and none this season. The club (and the KMS before the club took control of the stadium) made some mistakes with pricing, ease of purchasing tickets, marketing. Some of these may have been rectified, but the fact is they are still on my mind, and now I'm quite happy spending my Saturday afternoons watching Jeff Stelling.
That's not about the club not being welcoming enough though is it?
You're just more comfortable spending Satdi afternoon indoors with the telly.
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My point is that it is surely cheaper for Doncaster people to watch Donny Rovers than it is to travel to Leeds once a fortnight to watch Leeds. Therefore it is not necessarily down to the towns high unemployment for the Rovers lack of support.
Those donny folk chose to follow Leeds (and the sheffield clubs) decades ago when those clubs were flying high and Rovers were shyte and never looking like being anything other than shyte.
BB, you're an avid fan of your chosen club. Could ANYBODY pursuade you to drop that allegiance and go support Leeds or any other?
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I'll say it.
Watch Weeds fly next year with their new investor. Of course, we don't do things like that
Funny, the comment from my Leeds supporting mate was that he hopes we stay up as they will need 3 teams worse than them to stay up. He's looking forward to getting 0-0 every game and surviving on 46 points
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Hmmm South West. I reckon Chilano or whatever the #### his name is will spend loads of dosh this summer and buy his way back into the Prem. They may not do it next season (look now much Leicester and Cardiff spent and they didn't do it first season) but he will spend big.
I reckon they will be back in the if time in the next 2 to 3 years and the simple fact is, we won't. Because of one reason: money. I don't know how much money the new owner at Leeds has, but he won't be frightened of spending it, unlike at our club I'm afraid. And don't talk about financial fair play, it doesn't exist. It has more holes in it than our defence
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How much do you suggest our owners spend of their money , so that you can watch us in the premier league
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Would I rather be potentially going down to L1 with our board and philosophy or dreaming of the Premier League with the Italian bloke. I'll take the first option everytime.
Leeds will be screwed again, and so would we have been in the Autumn.
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How do you know? And that's why we will always be a 'little' club. No ambition from board or supporters.
And I have never, ever once suggested THIS board had to spend any money they didn't want to. There was an alternative
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What alternative was that then?
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What alternative was that then?
I think it's a veiled reference to the Take over saga, a few more will resurface when the invitable happens
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Oh dear. How wrong can you be.
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Oh dear. How wrong can you be.
My guess SM, no limit.
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Barnsley Donny, Sheff weds Sheff utd Rotherham and Scunthorpe All within 15 to 20 miles apart from each other Dont think any other area has teams in such close proximity ,You can count Scum inthat as well. Probably apart from scunny and Rotherham all have been more successful than Rovers apart from last few years. Rovers have always had a core of support and will stuggle to compete with the others. You have to into town during the day and there seems to be more foreigners than english and they are the ones working.
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I just saw this and it made me realise how very different our fans are ..
Offical TykesMOAN celebration Thread - For Moaners
Well done lads - proved you all right - bet you are all celebrating with a pint at our relegation safe in the knowledge that by knocking the team , players and manager (s) all season you can have the last laugh
Seriously well done - makes you proud inside
You can all come on here now and have a rite good moan - bet you were bricking it when we beat Charlton almost ruined your fun.
Keep up the good work on here ..
One small mercy see you are posting you are not renewing your season tickets - thank god might get some positive people down t'well for a change not moaning defeatist -STAY AWAY :star:
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I think there's some differing opinions about ambition. I'm sure the former Champions of Europe have someway to go to satisfy the lust for Premiership and European football. A big factor why Donny Whites followed the big club. Our recent success by comparison outweighs anything they have achieved over the same timescale. What if they kick on from here? Good luck to them. It will take a huge budget before they can once more rub shoulders with liverpool and Man U where they think they belong. Is it realistic to follow them financially or be fooled in to believing £10m will keep up with them. Wake up, they were losing £1m a month!
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Baz, I respect your opinion more than most on here. Your arguments are always well presented and not without merit. We have never been a 'big' club because we have never had the ambition from board or supporters to become a 'big' club.
All the usual suspects can come on here and spout their usual diatribe about how we shouldn't accept 'outside' investment. 'Because it's not good for the club' what rubbish! And how do they know? The truth is they don't.
I'm desperate for anyone to come Into my football club and invest the money we need to become established in the Championship, push on and hopefully, one day, become a premier league club. I want to see Donny Rovers in the Premier League in my lifetime. John Ryan would give is a chance if he had that sort of money, but he doesn't unfortunately. If I had £600m or whatever in the bank, a decent percentage of that would go to my football team, because I am passionate about them. Our board freely admit they are not 'football men'.
And, for your info, I have renewed my season ticket for next season and will do so this time next year, whatever division we are in
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Oh dear.
'I'm desperate for somebody to spend millions of £'s on my football club so I can watch Premiership football'.
And bugger the consequences!
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Tell you what SM, if you want to support a 'little club' forever, go and watch Accrington Stanley or Goole Town
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Tell you what SM, if you want to support a 'little club' forever, go and watch Accrington Stanley or Goole Town
How old are you?
Grow up!
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Baz, I respect your opinion more than most on here. Your arguments are always well presented and not without merit. We have never been a 'big' club because we have never had the ambition from board or supporters to become a 'big' club.
All the usual suspects can come on here and spout their usual diatribe about how we shouldn't accept 'outside' investment. 'Because it's not good for the club' what rubbish! And how do they know? The truth is they don't.
I'm desperate for anyone to come Into my football club and invest the money we need to become established in the Championship, push on and hopefully, one day, become a premier league club. I want to see Donny Rovers in the Premier League in my lifetime. John Ryan would give is a chance if he had that sort of money, but he doesn't unfortunately. If I had £600m or whatever in the bank, a decent percentage of that would go to my football team, because I am passionate about them. Our board freely admit they are not 'football men'.
And, for your info, I have renewed my season ticket for next season and will do so this time next year, whatever division we are in
So you would if you could but You can't so you shan't .
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Tell you what SM, if you want to support a 'little club' forever, go and watch Accrington Stanley or Goole Town
Tell you what Frosty. If you want to watch a small club forever, let a Belize-based hedge fund buy it.
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Tell you what SM, if you want to support a 'little club' forever, go and watch Accrington Stanley or Goole Town
I'm quite happy supporting my team at whatever level we find ourselves at. It's you who has the problem.
So, can I suggest if it's Premiership football you need then there a few within reasonable travelling distance of where you live?
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Tell you what SM, if you want to support a 'little club' forever, go and watch Accrington Stanley or Goole Town
I'm quite happy supporting my team at whatever level we find ourselves at. It's you who has the problem.
So, can I suggest if it's Premiership football you need then there a few within reasonable travelling distance of where you live?
I really hope the board don't have the same mentality as you.
Even though JR didn't always conduct himself in the best manner, say stupid things and act like a child you know he wouldn't have this bullshit attitude of 'Im happy at whatever level we play at'. No matter what JR want's DRFC at the highest level. I get the impression TB isn't all too fussed. I have't heard any rallying cries from him in these tough last few weeks.
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Tell you what SM, if you want to support a 'little club' forever, go and watch Accrington Stanley or Goole Town
I'm quite happy supporting my team at whatever level we find ourselves at. It's you who has the problem.
So, can I suggest if it's Premiership football you need then there a few within reasonable travelling distance of where you live?
I really hope the board don't have the same mentality as you.
Even though JR didn't always conduct himself in the best manner, say stupid things and act like a child you know he wouldn't have this bullshit attitude of 'Im happy at whatever level we play at'. No matter what JR want's DRFC at the highest level. I get the impression TB isn't all too fussed. I have't heard any rallying cries from him in these tough last few weeks.
We know TB isn't vocal like JR and prefers to stay out of the limelight.
He will see it as leaving it to the football people to deal with.
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Tell you what SM, if you want to support a 'little club' forever, go and watch Accrington Stanley or Goole Town
I'm quite happy supporting my team at whatever level we find ourselves at. It's you who has the problem.
So, can I suggest if it's Premiership football you need then there a few within reasonable travelling distance of where you live?
I really hope the board don't have the same mentality as you.
Even though JR didn't always conduct himself in the best manner, say stupid things and act like a child you know he wouldn't have this bullshit attitude of 'Im happy at whatever level we play at'. No matter what JR want's DRFC at the highest level. I get the impression TB isn't all too fussed. I have't heard any rallying cries from him in these tough last few weeks.
Well now you're confusing the discussion by mixing up different parts of the argument.
I said I was happy at whatever level we find ourselves at, and I stand by that. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want DRFC to compete at the highest level either.
But it seems to me that PL football is a 'must have' with some of you no matter what the consequences of attempting that are. It's no good having the ambition without the means to achieve that. We don't have the means, nor are we a big enough club to justify it on match day receipts either.
JR did have the ambition, the truth of the matter is he didn't have the funds to match it. Hence why our rise up the leagues is due to two other people, TB and DW. You might not like it, you might want to criticise them for what you see as a lack of ambition, but you should be careful of what you wish for. Football has a habit of letting you down badly.
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I totally agree with the thread , we are out of our depth at this level , I said it at the end of last season and I say it now , but we are going to be ok in league one 😜
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If we filled the ground every week it still would not be enough at this level , one decent player at this level is 15 to 20k a week
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Baz, I respect your opinion more than most on here. Your arguments are always well presented and not without merit. We have never been a 'big' club because we have never had the ambition from board or supporters to become a 'big' club.
All the usual suspects can come on here and spout their usual diatribe about how we shouldn't accept 'outside' investment. 'Because it's not good for the club' what rubbish! And how do they know? The truth is they don't.
I'm desperate for anyone to come Into my football club and invest the money we need to become established in the Championship, push on and hopefully, one day, become a premier league club. I want to see Donny Rovers in the Premier League in my lifetime. John Ryan would give is a chance if he had that sort of money, but he doesn't unfortunately. If I had £600m or whatever in the bank, a decent percentage of that would go to my football team, because I am passionate about them. Our board freely admit they are not 'football men'.
And, for your info, I have renewed my season ticket for next season and will do so this time next year, whatever division we are in
One word is enough to show just how much you know about the realities of football finances.
Just tell me would you, what is the definition of the word 'investment' because in any financial context I can think of it is inextricably linked with getting your money back and more besides.
How many people who 'invest' in football clubs in this country have actually achieved that? Only one that I can think of.
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Ok, GIVE their money away.
I think any passionate fan who had £600m in the bank would be happy to give away a reasonable percentage of it away. Rich people give money away all the time to charities etc. Well my 'charity' with that sort of dosh would be DRFC
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Frosty, I think we're quite close on most things football although getting from A to B might be a different route.
I think we all would have hoped and believed the money put in the the playing budget this season would be enough to keep us up (It may well do yet), with a view to strengthening our position year on year.
I believe in organic growth and the plans put in place at the club to increase turnover should help us do that. If we are able to move attendances back up following the decline then you'd hope the board/owners would take encouragement and support the manager with perhaps a proportionately bigger budget.
I'd rather go down this route than sell the club to some dirty little money men who just have their own short term interests to fulfil. Yer man at Leeds may be a different proposition to what we had on offer as at least he has some history with Cagliari to call upon.
"Leeds United owner Massimo Cellino has said that previous owners GFH were "not straight" with manager Brian McDermott when he was appointed"
In the other scenario, a benefactor putting in heaps of money to finance a charge for the Premiership in a short period of time means the rise up the pyramid would probably outstrip any growth in attendances and therefore would be a false representation of our 'strength' as a club. On that basis, I don't see why any sensible businessman would put that much in. Jack Walker and Dave Whelan are perhaps notable exceptions.
I'm thankful to the degree to which JR, then JR, TB and DW, have supported the club to date and I can only see organic growth for a relatively small club like us being the sensible way forward.
If I won the lottery then I could see myself putting some money in but that would probably be a one off. The kind of money required to support a Premiership tilt would soon burn a hole if it wasn't achieved quickly and we know nothing is certain in football. I bet Birmingham fans wished they had never heard the name Carson Yeung!!