Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Filo on May 23, 2014, 02:36:01 pm
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That has to be the biggest shock of the elections in Donny
Also UKIP gain Edenthorpe Kirk Sandall and Barnby Dunn
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Donny: Labour -1, UKIP +1
Sheffield: Labour +1, UKIP +3
Barnsley: Labour +1, UKIP (no seats)
Rotherham: Labour -8, UKIP +10
wtf went off in Rotherham then?
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I'm surprised Mick hasn't already come on here and claimed some great awakening of the masses.
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I voted in Edenthorpe. Not for UKIP though. Not great for labour really.
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Well done UKIP for taking Edenthorpe, Kirk Sandall and Barnby Dunn. The people have spoken. Labour got lucky in Bessacar. Roll on the European results on Sunday when UKIP will again do very well.
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I voted in Edenthorpe. Not for UKIP though. Not great for labour really.
How does some one living in Leeds get a vote in the Doncaster Council elections?
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Well done UKIP for taking Edenthorpe, Kirk Sandall and Barnby Dunn. The people have spoken. Labour got lucky in Bessacar. Roll on the European results on Sunday when UKIP will again do very well.
Labour won by 142 votes in Bessacar turn out 35%
UKIP won by 37 votes in Edenthorpe turn out 33%
And you say Labour was lucky? Pmsl!
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I voted in Edenthorpe. Not for UKIP though. Not great for labour really.
How does some one living in Leeds get a vote in the Doncaster Council elections?
I didn't get chance to transfer my vote so ended up that my vote was still here. Technically all my paperwork stuff is.
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Well done UKIP for taking Edenthorpe, Kirk Sandall and Barnby Dunn. The people have spoken. Labour got lucky in Bessacar. Roll on the European results on Sunday when UKIP will again do very well.
Labour won by 142 votes in Bessacar turn out 35%
UKIP won by 37 votes in Edenthorpe turn out 33%
And you say Labour was lucky? Pmsl!
Labour only won Bessacar because the LibDems are so unpopular and the Tory vote was very complacent and didn't turn out. Next time Labour will get one hell of a beating.
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I voted in Edenthorpe. Not for UKIP though. Not great for labour really.
How does some one living in Leeds get a vote in the Doncaster Council elections?
I didn't get chance to transfer my vote so ended up that my vote was still here. Technically all my paperwork stuff is.
It's wrong you should n't have voted
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I voted in Doncaster too, add me to the list of wrong uns
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I voted in Doncaster too, add me to the list of wrong uns
Done!
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I voted in Bessie and for the first time lib dem.
Been unhappy with con-artists using Nick as the lightening conductor who all bad news flows thro!
Think he / they have done a decent job of tempering the harder right side of cams elite clowns.
Also didn't want to kick a dead dog.
Bugs me how labour go unchallenged in Donny, but would be embarrassed to be from rothers!!!
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You're only a wrong un if you didn't vote UKIP.
We need to take a leaf out of Rotherham's book. They are ahead of the game compared to Donny. I suspect next time we get chance to vote there will be a lot more UKIP councillors. Labour's days of dominance are coming to an end.
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I suspect many didn't vote UKIP because with the first past the post system life is very difficult for them. In fact it's downright unfair. I've done an analysis of the results and this is what I've found:
Labour votes - 26,552
UKIP votes- 22,096
Labour seats in the council - 48
UKIP seats in the council - 1
This is not democracy. Labour get 20% more votes than UKIP but get 48 times as many seats (4,700% more). This is plainly ridiculous. Never mind. Next time even with first past the post, UKIP will make substantial gains. One day they will be the majority party and can sort Doncaster out good and proper instead of the useless Labour councillors we've had to put up with for far too long.
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I voted in Edenthorpe. Not for UKIP though. Not great for labour really.
How does some one living in Leeds get a vote in the Doncaster Council elections?
I didn't get chance to transfer my vote so ended up that my vote was still here. Technically all my paperwork stuff is.
It's wrong you should n't have voted
No it isn't. Arguably I have two residences where should I vote?
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Donny: Labour -1, UKIP +1
Sheffield: Labour +1, UKIP +3
Barnsley: Labour +1, UKIP (no seats)
Rotherham: Labour -8, UKIP +10
wtf went off in Rotherham then?
UKIP targeted Rotherham as a constiuency they thought they could do well in.
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I voted in Edenthorpe. Not for UKIP though. Not great for labour really.
How does some one living in Leeds get a vote in the Doncaster Council elections?
I didn't get chance to transfer my vote so ended up that my vote was still here. Technically all my paperwork stuff is.
It's wrong you should n't have voted
No it isn't. Arguably I have two residences where should I vote?
Leeds where you live
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I voted in Edenthorpe. Not for UKIP though. Not great for labour really.
How does some one living in Leeds get a vote in the Doncaster Council elections?
I didn't get chance to transfer my vote so ended up that my vote was still here. Technically all my paperwork stuff is.
It's wrong you should n't have voted
No it isn't. Arguably I have two residences where should I vote?
Nigeria?
Electoral fraud has happened in the hot bed called Edenthorpe.
There must be a recount.
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One Reason why UKIP did so Well in Rotherham, will be after the
Knock on effect after the recent sex sandal case where asian men were found to be grooming young under aged white girls for sex
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A comparison of the vote in Edenthorpe between the two major players of that ward from 2010 and 2014, Fred Gee the UKIP candidate stood as an English Democrat in 2010.
2010. 2014
David Nevett 1632 1267
Fred Gee. 1100 1304
turnout. 63%. 33%
So Fred Gee only polled 204 more votes this time around despite David Nevett polling 435 less votes than last time around. Hardly a convincing victory for a man that is riding the crest of a UKIP wave is it?
The Conservative vote in 2010 was 1383 and in 2014 was 681.
Thats 702 votes down from last time which suggests that UKIP have picked up their votes from the conservative voters rather than Labour, UKIP were lucky in Edenthorpe
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The turnout made a big difference though. So given the size of vote halved it's a good achievement for him. Always surprised me labour got in here anyway given the demographic of the area.
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One Reason why UKIP did so Well in Rotherham, will be after the
Knock on effect after the recent sex sandal case where asian men were found to be grooming young under aged white girls for sex
Give me a reason why i should still continue to pay Vikings chat when shyte like this is allowed ?
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I voted in Edenthorpe. Not for UKIP though. Not great for labour really.
How does some one living in Leeds get a vote in the Doncaster Council elections?
I didn't get chance to transfer my vote so ended up that my vote was still here. Technically all my paperwork stuff is.
It's wrong you should n't have voted
Its not wrong, Dave. Its where they are entitled to vote. That's where the electoral roll has them registered.
I only just managed to get my change of address registered in time for this election, and I moved over 18 months ago. Its the last thing on your mind until an election comes around.
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One Reason why UKIP did so Well in Rotherham, will be after the
Knock on effect after the recent sex sandal case where asian men were found to be grooming young under aged white girls for sex
Give me a reason why i should still continue to pay Vikings chat when shyte like this is allowed ?
You pay to be a member of the trust, Yargo. Viking Chat forum is free to use.
BTW, I put your kind offer to Stefan and he said he will be in touch when he returns.
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I would imagine UKIP's strong showing in Rotherham (when they did nothing like so well in Donny or Barnsley, for example) is a legacy of the 2012 By-election. Then they finished second to Labour after fighting a vigorous campaign. It is almost a mirror image of how the Lib Dems used to win parliamentary seats, by establishing a base on the local council. Here a strong parliamentary showing has enabled them to gain momentum locally.
I'd say that there is plenty of food for thought for all the parties in these results and UKIP did much better than I expected considering these results are for LOCAL (not European) elections. They will do even better in the Euros.
If I were a betting man I'd be lumping on another Hung Parliament in 2015. The Lib-Dem rump may even end up holding the balance of power. Now there's a thought!
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Just looking at the Donny results it's surprising how well the UKIP candidates did, often coming a close second in each ward.
The reason Labour got in at Bessecarr was UKIP split the Tory vote.
The reason Mexborough the Forgotten Town candidate won was UKIP split the Labour vote.
If this translates to the national level as I think it will, it should make for an intriguing General Election.
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Labour has an interesting year coming up. They have clearly lost working class votes and support to UKIP over the last 18 months, which no-one expected (to this extent) but which looks inevitable with hindsight. The inevitability is a consequence of the New Labour experiment which did very little to help those at the bottom end, whilst (to quote Mandelson) being "intensely relaxed about people becoming filthy rich".[1]
New Labour simply took the support of the working class for granted. The signs were there in 2010 that this support was cracking, with huge numbers moving to the LDs. After the Election, most of these came back to Labour when they realised what they had done. Not out of any feeling of commitment to Labour, but because there was no anti-Tory alternative anymore. But a big chunk of those have now switched to UKIP as the protest of choice.
Labour has to work hard on two fronts over the next year.
Firstly, they have got to expose UKIP's economic strategy, which is barely ever mentioned, but which would make Thatcher look like Clement Attlee. It is bizarre that people who hate the Tories for their approach to economics would support UKIP.
Secondly, they have got to remind people what
the consequence of indulging in a protest vote was in 2010. Left-ish people voting LD then put Osborne into No11. Labour have got to hammer home that message remorselessly.
It's negative, but there's no option from here. Labour have to scare people into not indulging themselves. If you are left-ish leaning, you have no option but to vote Lab in 15, even if you don't do it out of conviction. The best alternative will be more of what we've had since 2010. The worst would be an unbridled right-wing Govt.
And if they DO win in 2015, Labour has to make it a priority to make sure they don't abandon the core working class in the way that Blair and New Labour did.
[1] To be fair, Mandelson did say "as long as they pay their tax". Trouble is, many of them didn't.
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One Reason why UKIP did so Well in Rotherham, will be after the
Knock on effect after the recent sex sandal case where asian men were found to be grooming young under aged white girls for sex
Give me a reason why i should still continue to pay Vikings chat when shyte like this is allowed ?
Ok i will butter it up for you a different way
UKIP targeted Rotherham as possible success because Of the issues Of the Child sex cases in the borough ,as Its normally nailed on labour.
Child sex cases in Rotherham =UKIP see that as a plattform =ukips result last nite.
No Child sex cases in Rotherham =UKIP dont see it as a possible win=UKIP
Dont push them sens so Much=UKIP dont Get the number Of votes from Rotherham
Way i see it
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So what about if a Catholic priest was exposed as running a child sex ring in Rotherham? or would that be different because he's (more than likely) white?
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It's negative, but there's no option from here. Labour have to scare people into not indulging themselves. If you are left-ish leaning, you have no option but to vote Lab in 15, even if you don't do it out of conviction. The best alternative will be more of what we've had since 2010. The worst would be an unbridled right-wing Govt.
Maybe it is an unfortunate choice of phrase, but I don't think scare tactics work with voters any longer. The three Westminster parties have tried to scare the Bejasus out of the Scots by claiming that they will be unable to keep the pound, that jobs will be lost, their pensions will be worthless etc and the result has been a steady increase in the Yes vote (at least according to the polls).
Similarly attempts to scare people into believing that UKIP are just the BNP in suits appear to have backfired.
If Labour are going to win in 2015 they have to produce a more positive message, stop focusing on symptoms rather than problems (the "cost of living crisis" being a prime example of this) and also stop chasing every passing bandwagon. Then people might be prepared to ignore the impression that Ed Miliband is a Leeds-supporting geek who can't eat a bacon butty without gagging on it.
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TRB
1) As I said earlier this week, Oppositions NEVER win elections. Govts lose them and Oppositions' tactics are ALWAYS negative.
2) I'm genuinely fascinated by the attacks on Miliband. He is apparently a geek who can't function in the real world, whilst simultaneously being a nasty, devious, fratricidal extreme left wing maniac who will destroy the country.
A bit inconsistent. Seems to me like people deciding they don't like Miliband, then picking a suitable reason afterwards.
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I suspect many didn't vote UKIP because with the first past the post system life is very difficult for them. In fact it's downright unfair. I've done an analysis of the results and this is what I've found:
Labour votes - 26,552
UKIP votes- 22,096
Labour seats in the council - 48
UKIP seats in the council - 1
This is not democracy. Labour get 20% more votes than UKIP but get 48 times as many seats (4,700% more). This is plainly ridiculous. Never mind. Next time even with first past the post, UKIP will make substantial gains. One day they will be the majority party and can sort Doncaster out good and proper instead of the useless Labour councillors we've had to put up with for far too long.
Agreed! Thanks for the statistic work was going to do something similiar with the data from here;
http://www.doncaster.gov.uk/sections/councilanddemocracy/votingelectionsanddemocracy/ElectionResults/Results/Local_Elections_2014.aspx
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You're welcome.
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Have you done proportion of votes cast?
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No.
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TRB
1) As I said earlier this week, Oppositions NEVER win elections. Govts lose them and Oppositions' tactics are ALWAYS negative.
2) I'm genuinely fascinated by the attacks on Miliband. He is apparently a geek who can't function in the real world, whilst simultaneously being a nasty, devious, fratricidal extreme left wing maniac who will destroy the country.
A bit inconsistent. Seems to me like people deciding they don't like Miliband, then picking a suitable reason afterwards.
BST
1. Maybe, but the Tories failed to capitalise on Labour's unpopularity at the last election and I wouldn't be surprised if Labour do the same this time around.
2. Isn't it possible that he is both? Stalin probably thought Trotsky was a geek, but that didn't stop him from having him murdered because he was "dangerous." ;)
The point I was trying to make was that people might ignore Miliband's geekishness if he had some policies that didn't threaten to unravel between now and election day. Though personally I can't forgive him for being a Leeds fan. ;)
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No.
are those statistics not available online yet ??? ;-)
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No.
are those statistics not available online yet ??? ;-)
http://www.doncaster.gov.uk/sections/councilanddemocracy/votingelectionsanddemocracy/ElectionResults/Results/Local_Elections_2014.aspx
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TRB
The Tory problem is much deeper. They have been relatively unpopular for a generation. In the last 25 years, they have hardly ever squeaked above 40% in opinion polls, managing it only in the most propitious of circumstances and never staying there for long. That is astonishing for the party that used to consider itself the natural party of Government not so long ago. So their inability to win a majority in 2010 was as much down to their long term decline as it was to tactics at the time.
Personally, I thought they played it as well as they possibly could from the start of the financial crash. Cameron initially played the statesman card ("These are dangerous times and we put party advantage to one side and stand ready to help where we can" or words to that effect.)
They then kept their heads down for 6 months.
And then came back with a devastating "should have fixed the roof while the sun shone" and "deficit denier" attack.
I'm not sure what more they could have done.
As for Miliband, maybe I could have put my point better. What I mean is that he is portrayed as someone who is a ditherer and weak, get as someone who was prepared to betray his own brother to get what he wanted. If you accept the second premise (which I don't: there was no "betrayal"; there was an election not a primogeniture process) then I fail to see how you can see him as anything other than calculatingly ruthless.
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No.
31.66% which means 1 in 3 throughout the borough voted UKIP, very impressive!
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No.
31.66% which means 1 in 3 throughout the borough voted UKIP, very impressive!
With turnout around 30%. So about 9% of the electorate in Donny supported UKIP.
Still more than is healthy, but it puts it into better perspective.
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Billy, total votes cast, 69787, total votes for UKIP 22,096 which, unless my calculator is wrong works out at 31.66% Don't try manipulating these figures for your own interest because they are a fact. Everyone in the borough at the legal age had the opportunity to vote, making it statiscally speaking an independent result. Therefore there is no reason to believe that more people hadn't taken up the opportunty that the result wouldn't have been similar!
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Savvy
I'm not manipulating anything. I'm stating a fact.
Local and European Elections regularly throw up occasions where smaller parties, on a roll, get a stunning level of support among those who voted. The two key issues are
1) Whether the party on a roll gets a disproportionate share of its supporters out in a small turnout.
2) Whether those votes are a "f**k all the rest of them" protest vote that won't be repeated in a more critical election.
History suggests that the answer to both is "usually yes". The Greens took 15% of the vote in the 89 Euro elections in the UK. They've not topped 1% in any of the 5 subsequent General Elections. There are plenty of other examples, not least UKIP getting 16.5% of the vote in the 2009 Euro elections and 3.1% in the General Election 12 months later.
I understand that UKIP supporters are jubilant. I don't know if you are one. If you are, you are welcome to believe that 31% of people in TLOD support UKIP and will vote UKIP in a General Election. I suspect you'll be in for a disappointment though.
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Savvy
I'm not manipulating anything. I'm stating a fact.
Local and European Elections regularly throw up occasions where smaller parties, on a roll, get a stunning level of support among those who voted. The two key issues are
1) Whether the party on a roll gets a disproportionate share of its supporters out in a small turnout.
2) Whether those votes are a "f*** all the rest of them" protest vote that won't be repeated in a more critical election.
History suggests that the answer to both is "usually yes". The Greens took 15% of the vote in the 89 Euro elections in the UK. They've not topped 1% in any of the 5 subsequent General Elections. There are plenty of other examples, not least UKIP getting 16.5% of the vote in the 2009 Euro elections and 3.1% in the General Election 12 months later.
I understand that UKIP supporters are jubilant. I don't know if you are one. If you are, you are welcome to believe that 31% of people in TLOD support UKIP and will vote UKIP in a General Election. I suspect you'll be in for a disappointment though.
Bill, I'm well aware of the circumstances that surround a protest vote, and I believe that 31% of the people of the borough WHO VOTED, choose UKIP because its a fact. No one mentioned that it would or could be repeated in the General Election, but they've as much chance of getting more as they have of not getting as many.
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As a UKIP supporter it really makes my piss boil that we are constantly told the reason we vote UKIP is as a protest. This is not the case. The main reason I voted UKIP is because I want to see immigration brought under control. This is the main reason most people vote UKIP.
All the other parties are quite happy to allow uncontrolled immigration from the EU. This is crazy. UKIP are the only party that will say this and this is why they are getting so much support.
It's time the major parties started to listen to the electorate. Until they do, UKIP will get stronger and stronger.
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Break down of the local election result by total votes cast and percentage of the overall vote:
English Democrat 1241 1.79%
Liberal Democrats 2519 3.63%
Trade Union against cuts 1556 2.24%
Labour Party 23457 33.77%
UKIP 22046 31.74%
Conservatives 8880 12.79%
Independents 2063 2.97%
Green Party 1259 1.81%
Doncaster first Party 1469 2.12%
Labour Co-operative 3095 4.46%
Mexboro Forgotten town 1193 1.72%
The community Group 673 0.97%
Total votes cast less spoilt papers 69,451 average turn out by ward 32%.
Good job its not a PR system eh?
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Savvy.
The system is what the system is. For the record, I have stated many times that I think that a FPTP system is unacceptable in the current situation. It was OK when we had two parties winning 95% of the vote between them, as we did in the 40s, 50s and 60s. But it has been wrong now for 40 years.
BUT. It's the system that we have. What UKIP have done in Donny is to lose most matches 3-2. A football team that did that would get relegated. One that lost a few matches 4-2 and won the odd one 2-1 would have the same GD, but more points.
I'll repeat, I'm not saying I agree with the system, but that's what it is. If you don't like it, get out on the streets and campaign against it.
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Billy, twas nothing more than a off the cuff remark.....think you need to get out more!!!
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Savvy.
Ha! I'm stuck at my desk working on a report for yet another demanding client. This banter IS my getting out at the moment.
Mind, if YOU are posting the vote share from the Mexboro Forgotten Town party at 11pm of a Sunday, I reckon you're on thin ice telling somebody else to get out more....
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Ha! ha! I have to concede that point!!! Get the tele on!!! for the Euro elections!!
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It does show up the flaws in the system. I voted no to the change proposed previously as I don't like first choice second choice etc. However first past is very outdated and needs looking at again. If UKIP keep performing it will be an issue for all parties. It will harm the tories for sure but also if labour don't capitalise - lots of evidence they're losing votes to UKIP just as much, then it's tricky for them as there is much more chance of UKIP and the tories coming together.
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What UKIP have done in Donny is to lose most matches 3-2. A football team that did that would get relegated. One that lost a few matches 4-2 and won the odd one 2-1 would have the same GD, but more points.
Playing devil's advocate here as I'm steadfastly against UKIP but based on that analogy, it's like Donny Rovers coming from nowhere a few years ago and losing Premier League matches by the odd goal. No room for complacency.
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Mike F
Fully agree. Which is why it pains me so that people in Donny are being played by a rich man's party, pretending to be the friend of the common man. It's a lie that has got to be faced down at every opportunity.